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Are you kidding me!! How come few instructors talk about this!!!!


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#1 Lamb

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 08:29 AM

WTH!! Wait so all these years I just realised that in the downswing the lead shoulder should go down first as to around?  I don't believe this! I am angry and shaking with rage that I wasted all these years and $$$$ that something so important was never mentioned to me by my instructors. Not once!!!. I fixed the issue myself having finally watched a YT video. The problem is that although the instruction on the shoulder turn on the DS has been right, far too much emphasis has been placed on the trail shoulder rather than the effects of the lead shoulder.

Anyway, what I discovered is that getting the shoulder down leads  when incorporated with dropping your arms leads to:

No more early extension
Amazing shoulder rotation though the ball
No more coming over the top
Divots in front of the ball
Great contact


Big shoutout to  Shaun Webb@Athletic Motion Golf for his life changing video. The sad thing is I saw the video and even posted it a while back but never noticed how important it was.




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#2 kobe123

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 08:37 AM

AMG golf is amazing. Shaun Webb & Mike Granato are wizards. I just got a in-person lesson from Granato and it was eye opening.

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#3 nfmoto

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:19 AM

Dan and Monte talk about this often.

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#4 KC13

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:44 AM

"Noren drill" is very similar and a great drill for pre-shot routine.  

https://youtu.be/rFr50g05Uy8

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#5 Hackinator

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:54 AM

What a total contradiction this is to keeping your head behind the ball.

I would be careful trying to implement this.

At least in the demo, it looks like his head is moving forward, perhaps just a bad demo.


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#6 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:58 AM

View PostHackinator, on 05 October 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

What a total contradiction this is to keeping your head behind the ball.

I would be careful trying to implement this.

At least in the demo, it looks like his head is moving forward, perhaps just a bad demo.

Your head is supposed to stay behind the ball and it’s not a contradiction.  Left shoulder is supposed to separate from the chin.

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#7 RichieHunt

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 12:16 PM

I've heard instructors talk about this for quite a while, even some that I personally do not like.

Problem is that it doesn't get talked about in golf magazines, The Golf Channel, etc.





RH

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#8 psufish

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 12:41 PM

Tyler Ferrell helped me grasp it better in The Stock Tour Swing....I was similarly bitter that I misunderstood that for so long.

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#9 Chowdah86

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 12:57 PM

Love the first visual in this article.   This might blow your frikin mind!

https://www.golf.com...l-perfect-swing


Letting the arms drop with the back to the target might help too.

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#10 dap

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:02 PM

Not all tour players drop their lead shoulder as a first move on the downswing. It is a common trait among the long hitters but they drop virtually everything above their waist. The whole upper body including the head drops which naturally takes the lead shoulder down with it. Try dropping your lead shoulder without dropping your head. It's impossible. Guys who does this include Sergio Garcia, Tiger Woods and Rory Mcliroy.

That AMG video is emphasizing more the importance of minimizing rib cage rotation to start the downswing. This is basically trying to teach players to get enough disassociation of the hips and shoulders in the early part of the downswing. This is probably more important than lead shoulder going down which not even all tour players can achieve. Higher handicappers don't get enough disassociation so as their hips turn their shoulders turn with it and they come steep, over the top and out to in. Feeling like the lead shoulder goes down may delay shoulder rotation which can be a good thing but the reality is not all good players actually drop the lead shoulder.



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#11 Hawkeye77

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:04 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 05 October 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I've heard instructors talk about this for quite a while, even some that I personally do not like.

Problem is that it doesn't get talked about in golf magazines, The Golf Channel, etc.

RH

LOL, even some I like talk about it!

I don't know enough personally so have yet to meet one I don't like. Hope to keep it that way - so Leadbetter don't come to my house! Heck, I'd probably like him if I met him.

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#12 moehogan

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:22 PM

Nothing new ...



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#13 Lamb

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:23 PM

View Postnfmoto, on 05 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Dan and Monte talk about this often.

I said most - not all :)

Monte does, I dont know who Dan is. But I know NONE of my instructors talked about this and 99% of YT videos that talk about the shoulder in the downswing are obsessed with the right shoulder.

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#14 Hawkeye77

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostLamb, on 05 October 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

View Postnfmoto, on 05 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Dan and Monte talk about this often.

I said most - not all :)

Monte does, I dont know who Dan is. But I know NONE of my instructors talked about this and 99% of YT videos that talk about the shoulder in the downswing are obsessed with the right shoulder.

Caught Peter Finch talking about this, I think in an Instagram vid a few weeks back.  Have seen Crossfield talk about it in a different way, but it was Monte where I learned the notion for sure.

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#15 nfmoto

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:54 PM

View PostLamb, on 05 October 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

View Postnfmoto, on 05 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Dan and Monte talk about this often.

I said most - not all :)

Monte does, I dont know who Dan is. But I know NONE of my instructors talked about this and 99% of YT videos that talk about the shoulder in the downswing are obsessed with the right shoulder.

Dan = iteach


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#16 kobe123

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:55 PM

My question is, what would make the chin stay connected to the left shoulder?

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#17 PreppySlapCut

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:11 PM

Listen to better instructors!  This is not a knock on Shaun or any of the AMG guys as they’re great.
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#18 Hackinator

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:21 PM

I dont understand this at all.  The gear animation doesn't look he is driving the left shoulder down, and the instructor is doing something that doesn't even resemble the gear animation.

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#19 Krt22

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

View Postdap, on 05 October 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Not all tour players drop their lead shoulder as a first move on the downswing. It is a common trait among the long hitters but they drop virtually everything above their waist. The whole upper body including the head drops which naturally takes the lead shoulder down with it. Try dropping your lead shoulder without dropping your head. It's impossible. Guys who does this include Sergio Garcia, Tiger Woods and Rory Mcliroy.

That AMG video is emphasizing more the importance of minimizing rib cage rotation to start the downswing. This is basically trying to teach players to get enough disassociation of the hips and shoulders in the early part of the downswing. This is probably more important than lead shoulder going down which not even all tour players can achieve. Higher handicappers don't get enough disassociation so as their hips turn their shoulders turn with it and they come steep, over the top and out to in. Feeling like the lead shoulder goes down may delay shoulder rotation which can be a good thing but the reality is not all good players actually drop the lead shoulder.

I think the real result is less complicated than that, this feel/thought helps get pressure forward early and keeps the trail shoulder from dropping too quickly via excess right side bend

View PostHackinator, on 05 October 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

I dont understand this at all.  The gear animation doesn't look he is driving the left shoulder down, and the instructor is doing something that doesn't even resemble the gear animation.

That's because its an exaggerated feel/demonstration in order to get the desired results. In reality it's much less relative motion, but its still there if you are properly extending in the backswing

Edited by Krt22, 05 October 2018 - 02:58 PM.


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#20 rangersgoalie

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 03:06 PM

Something I worked a lot starting in 1992 on from one of GolfWRX favorite instructors


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#21 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 03:32 PM

View Postkobe123, on 05 October 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

My question is, what would make the chin stay connected to the left shoulder?

Make a list of common swing faults and probably half of them.

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#22 Lamb

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 03:40 PM




To Monte or anyone @2:32 when he says when he says the pro is moving the left shoulder forward and down towards the left leg. Is it best to execute this by weight shift to the left and dropping the arms at the same time?

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#23 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 05:23 PM

It’s a bunch of different things.  Hopefully, you only have to do 1/2 things and get them all.

Left arm off chest
Left shoulder off chin
“Keep back to target”
Left shoulder down and forward to left leg
Lead with right elbow
Stay in left tilt longer
Regain flexion
Dropping arms (out and forward too)

All of those are basically the same move.  It’s all how you perceive it.

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#24 glk

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 05:38 PM

A not so old thread that discussed this extensively.   http://www.golfwrx.c...on/page__st__90

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#25 Redjeep83

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 06:17 PM

View Postdap, on 05 October 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Not all tour players drop their lead shoulder as a first move on the downswing. It is a common trait among the long hitters but they drop virtually everything above their waist. The whole upper body including the head drops which naturally takes the lead shoulder down with it. Try dropping your lead shoulder without dropping your head. It's impossible. Guys who does this include Sergio Garcia, Tiger Woods and Rory Mcliroy.

That AMG video is emphasizing more the importance of minimizing rib cage rotation to start the downswing. This is basically trying to teach players to get enough disassociation of the hips and shoulders in the early part of the downswing. This is probably more important than lead shoulder going down which not even all tour players can achieve. Higher handicappers don't get enough disassociation so as their hips turn their shoulders turn with it and they come steep, over the top and out to in. Feeling like the lead shoulder goes down may delay shoulder rotation which can be a good thing but the reality is not all good players actually drop the lead shoulder.

You’ve got some good points. What’s funny is I’ve tried feeling like my trail shoulder crashes straight down into my rear foot on the downswing, essentially the opposite feeling of left shoulder down and my left shoulder went down visibly more at the start of downswing than before. 🤷‍♂️


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#26 Golfbeat

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 06:18 PM

As Dan C. pointed out recently in a video lesson: if you don't get the left shoulder down in the backswing it will be quite difficult to get it down/keep it down in the down swing. Many, like myself, have a way too flat shoulder turn in the back swing. If that's your issue, fix the back swing first.
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#27 kobe123

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 07:45 PM

Do you think Adam Scott’s shoulder goes down?

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#28 Krt22

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 08:12 PM

You tell us.

https://www.youtube....h?v=xwF18OPaQG4

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#29 unpc

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 08:20 PM

Funny just watched a video this morning with drills to keep the shoulders level. Oh well.

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#30 North Texas

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostKrt22, on 05 October 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:


To this untrained eye, it definitely goes down in the backswing. I am sure of that. To start the downswing, it looks like you can make a case that it goes down and/or stays level.


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