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Out of the box USA Ryder Cup fixes


96 replies to this topic

#61 smeech8000

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:05 AM

These guys might all be chummy (Reed aside) but that doesn't always translate to team play.  You absolutely have to create a practice routine that simulates reality if you want to truly prepare for the event!  Get these guys practicing this type of play earlier than the week before the matches; it's no mystery that Foursomes play is a weak link for the US team; here are the splits from the past 5 cups (US/EU):

2018: 2-6
2016: 5.5-2.5
2014: 1-7
2012: 5-3
2010: 3.5-4.5

Total: US 17 - EU 23  (EDIT: for accuracy)

US typically outplays Europe in Singles, however it's a huge psychological disadvantage going into Sunday with a deficit.

Also, home field advantage goes well beyond the fans in the stands - Europe completely neutralizes the Americans' length advantage off the tee with their course setups.  US captains need to acknowledge this and get guys to dial it in that week or create complementary pairings (i.e. not a pair of bombers) out of their qualifiers if they're not going to use their captains' picks on guys that hit fairways with any regularity (ahem, looking at YOU, Phil and TW).

Take a look at the PGA Tour 2018 driving accuracy list and you'll see ONE American was inside the top 50 for the season...

Jim Furyk.

tldr; practice the format, keep it in the fairway

Edited by smeech8000, 08 October 2018 - 08:35 AM.

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#62 Sixcat

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:17 AM

This will work itself out over time!  Tiger, Phil and that generation were much more self absorbed than younger players coming along today.  That's not a bad thing.  That self absorbed nature gave us a 20 year stretch of some of the greatest feats golf has ever seen.  But it doesn't work in a "team" setting.

Once players such as Xander Schauffele, Beau Hossler and Aaron Wise join Spieth, JT and Rickie and fill the roles left by Tiger, Phil, Bubba, and others, balance will again be restored.

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#63 smashdn

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 12:45 PM

What amount of money would have to be on the line for a "friendly golf wager" amongst these guys to become significant or uncomfortable?

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#64 marlowe70

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:23 PM

View Poststraightshot7, on 04 October 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

View Postdino, on 04 October 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 04 October 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

Let the top 12 web.com finishers play in it and be done with it.

Was going to post the same thing.  They would be more motivated to make a name for themselves and they don't have the Euro guys as neighbors in Florida who they may have had over their place for a bbq with the wives last month.

Sorry, I don't see the logic behind this.

1. The web.com guys would likely get crushed (there is a big talent/skill/experience difference in favor of the current team).

2. Who wants to watch these guys they've never heard of when they could watch Tiger, Phil, Rickie, etc.

3. Where's the evidence that the current team lacks motivation? They seem to care. They get upset enough when they lose to throw each other under the bus : )


With guys like Brooks and Dustin, even if they do care, no one would notice...

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#65 bscinstnct

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:37 PM

View PostBingo1976, on 04 October 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 04 October 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

View PostRickyA12, on 04 October 2018 - 06:50 PM, said:

Go back to being the US vs just England. Problem solved.

i suggested this on sunday.... It didnt take ..lol

It never was US vs England.

Exactly. This way we have a chance.

US vs England only. And BK gets to punch IP in the arm as hard as he can just before play begins each day.

Also, England has to drink a pint per hole.

And TF has to shave his head.

US could just get the cup back ; )


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#66 The Pearl

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:50 PM

There is no real mystery here.  Since 1983, after the 3 straight wins by the USA, the disparity in outcomes has taken place on enemy territory.  The Euro's have won on American soil 4 times and the USA has won on Euro soil only once.  The real outlier isn't the USA failing in Europe, it is the European success on American soil. You don't have to be a golfing savant to figure out the reasons for their success.  They all play over here now, live over her now, etc.  

Within this time frame, all types of Captains and all types of courses have been played.  We have had tweeks to the selection system along with a wide ranging number of players picked as Captain's picks.  We have even had a task force.

Point being is that we are all under the false illusion that there is some magic formula floating around the universe that if magically captured can be repeated every two years to that the U.S. can return to dominance.  If said formula actually exists, odds are, somebody would have been able to apply it by now.

This thread is classic outcome/hindsight bias.  The results drive the narrative as everything seems obvious after the fact.

The Ryder Cup world was just fine after Hazeltine and after Friday mornings 3-1 lead.  Now everybody has the obvious solution.

Good luck with that.  Some of the suggestions are just idiotic.

Edited by The Pearl, 05 October 2018 - 01:55 PM.


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#67 umassgolfer

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:55 PM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 05 October 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

View Postputtfordoux, on 05 October 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Hank Haney met with Davis Love before the Ryder Cup at a corporate event and Love told him he and Furyk were gonna go over pairings, this was weeks before the Ryder Cup. Haney thought that was a bad idea. He thought instead they should've waited until the practice rounds and paired up based on form.

That makes better sense than letting them pick their partner.  If I'm going to be there to compete in front of the world, I want to be paired with the guy that gives me the best chance to win, not my buddy.

This is the disconnect to me. Fans want or expect the players to be in it for the competition. But to the players, they compete in front of the world every week, against their buddies. Now that they have a chance to play with them, the mindset is it is a fun exhibition. Play to win, but more importantly get to enjoy this awesome atmosphere with your pals. I can't begrudge the players of that.

This year's RC was a joke. US got whooped. No one will deny that. A lot of extenuating circumstances that the conflicting powers that be states-side have put in place...power struggle w/ PGA of America and PGA Tour and whatnot.

But hindsight is 20/20 as they say. if Tiger and Phil were left of the team and the result was the same, which it likely would have been, people would have been indignant about how you could leave off a top-3 all-time player and the US player with the most experience in RC history...

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#68 dan360

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:41 PM

View Postryanarneson, on 04 October 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

View Postdan360, on 04 October 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

The "process" and self absorbed selfishness are the issues.  

Why does a winning a Major determine preference in a captain?  If anything that should be a black mark against a captain.   Majors are ME FIRST events.   They make a big thing about Stricker being the first non Major winning American golfer to become captain.   That shouldn't even be in the conversation about capt qualifications and isn't anywhere except ME FIRST America.   Dumbfounding.  

Tiger and Phil on the "committee" is a joke.   So stinkin what if they are the "two best of the generation".  Great.  More ME FIRST attitudes working scenarios for a TEAM event.  Their playing record is embarrassing.  They don't work together. Ever.  Yet they're the ones in charge of success?   Dumbfounding.  

America is ignorant in that regard.    It's dumbfounding, but at the same time not a surprise at all being as that's how America seems to work.

It's all well and good to say don't put arguably best player of all time on your selection committee and the second best player of this entire generation when Europe doesn't have that choice to make.

If Tiger Woods was Irish or British, or Spanish, he'd be on the Euro "Task Force" or whatever they call it. Ryder Cup record be damned. Same with Phil.

Well they do say those who can't, coach.  


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#69 Titleist 670

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 03:01 PM

Easy fix.  US Captain in 2020?  Joey D.

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#70 golf1010

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:02 PM

Refuse to play away games


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#71 lowheel

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 06:25 PM

make mad dog mattis captain.His speeches and death stare in the room will be enough

Posted Image

Edited by lowheel, 05 October 2018 - 06:27 PM.


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#72 Bunker2Bunker0no

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 07:28 PM

Let Reed"s mother-in-law be the Captain...see obviously has it ALL figured out

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#73 Darth Putter

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 09:01 PM

View Postdan360, on 05 October 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

View Postryanarneson, on 04 October 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

View Postdan360, on 04 October 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

The "process" and self absorbed selfishness are the issues.  

Why does a winning a Major determine preference in a captain?  If anything that should be a black mark against a captain.   Majors are ME FIRST events.   They make a big thing about Stricker being the first non Major winning American golfer to become captain.   That shouldn't even be in the conversation about capt qualifications and isn't anywhere except ME FIRST America.   Dumbfounding.  

Tiger and Phil on the "committee" is a joke.   So stinkin what if they are the "two best of the generation".  Great.  More ME FIRST attitudes working scenarios for a TEAM event.  Their playing record is embarrassing.  They don't work together. Ever.  Yet they're the ones in charge of success?   Dumbfounding.  

America is ignorant in that regard. It's dumbfounding, but at the same time not a surprise at all being as that's how America seems to work.

It's all well and good to say don't put arguably best player of all time on your selection committee and the second best player of this entire generation when Europe doesn't have that choice to make.

If Tiger Woods was Irish or British, or Spanish, he'd be on the Euro "Task Force" or whatever they call it. Ryder Cup record be damned. Same with Phil.

Well they do say those who can't, coach.  

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#74 OrangeGravy

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:43 PM

View Postlowheel, on 05 October 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

make mad dog mattis captain.His speeches and death stare in the room will be enough

Posted Image

He's from my home town.

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#75 Roadking2003

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 10:56 AM

View Postsmeech8000, on 05 October 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

These guys might all be chummy (Reed aside) but that doesn't always translate to team play.  You absolutely have to create a practice routine that simulates reality if you want to truly prepare for the event!  Get these guys practicing this type of play earlier than the week before the matches; it's no mystery that Foursomes play is a weak link for the US team; here are the splits from the past 5 cups (US/EU):

2018: 2-6
2016: 5.5-2.5
2014: 1-7
2012: 5-3
2010: 3.5-4.5

Total: US 23 - EU 17


Your data does not support that statement.


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#76 caniac6

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 02:13 PM

No pods-this is one team. One assistant captain-too many cooks spoil the soup. Have someone from the PGA of America pick uniforms, and other administrative duties. Change the schedule so there is a week off between the Tour Championship and the Ryder Cup. Do something to loosen the guys up, and remind them to have fun on the course.

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#77 bscinstnct

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 03:13 PM

To be on the team.

You gotta fight with Ernie on a private jet, thats banking at 25*

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#78 OBbogey5

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 11:45 PM

Money, ya friggin idiots. Make it about money. Winning team players and captain get 1 mil each. Losers get $50k.

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#79 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 02:59 AM

It'll never ever happen but go completely outside the box and make one of the automatic places the Web.com winner. In theory they'd be motivated, hungry for success, no baggage etc.

It's a tough one to fix becat outside of JT, Simpson and Moore two years ago, none seem to want to scrap for the trophy. Vast majority of the US team give the impression that they're there because they have to be.

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#80 JDax

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 08:10 PM

The fix for the US is to play better golf...
We had a good team on paper, and they didn’t play well. The Euros beat us like a drum, they earned it.


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#81 imakaveli

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 04:55 AM

View PostOBbogey5, on 06 October 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

Money, ya friggin idiots. Make it about money. Winning team players and captain get 1 mil each. Losers get $50k.

Money won't change a thing. FedEx Cup is a snoozefest from the beginning to the end and a wheelbarrow of cash is involved.

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#82 smeech8000

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:33 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 06 October 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View Postsmeech8000, on 05 October 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

These guys might all be chummy (Reed aside) but that doesn't always translate to team play.  You absolutely have to create a practice routine that simulates reality if you want to truly prepare for the event!  Get these guys practicing this type of play earlier than the week before the matches; it's no mystery that Foursomes play is a weak link for the US team; here are the splits from the past 5 cups (US/EU):

2018: 2-6
2016: 5.5-2.5
2014: 1-7
2012: 5-3
2010: 3.5-4.5

Total: US 23 - EU 17


Your data does not support that statement.

EDIT: The yearly results are accurate, I had the totals reversed.  It should actually read US 17 - EU 23, which is an aggregate 6 point deficit.  Compare this differential with that of Fourballs (US/EU):

2018: 4-4
2016: 4-4
2014: 5-3
2012: 5-3
2010: 3-5

Total: US 21 - EU 19

Or Singles (US/EU):

2018: 4.5-7.5
2016: 7.5-4.5
2014: 5.5-6.5
2012: 3.5-8.5
2010: 7-5

Total: US 28 - EU 32

The difference in points from the Foursomes format is not only the largest absolute number (6) but when you calculate that number as a percentage of the total points available from the format it stands out much more than the apparent European advantage in the Singles format (15% vs. 6.7%).  Additionally, I haven't looked specifically at how many of those Singles matches were decided after the Cup had been clinched so some of those points may not be as telling as the Foursomes and Fourballs on Friday and Saturday when every point is fought for tooth and nail.

I will also point out that the only two years in which the Americans managed a positive differential from Foursomes were in the U.S. where they were playing to a course setup that was tailor made to accentuate their strengths and minimize their weaknesses - please refer to the rest of my post where I cited the significance of course setup/home field advantage.

Edited by smeech8000, 08 October 2018 - 08:33 AM.

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#83 jmkenn0

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:26 AM

So basically you want the US to dominate every year, then no one really cares about it anymore?  interesting....  Its an exhibition that the players, especially the US players, don't really get a lot out of it, except for grief when they lose.  Let them play with their buddies.  As someone upstream pointed out, once we get rid of the perennial dead weight (tiger, phil, bubba), who want to be anywhere but there, then the US will be better balanced.

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#84 smeech8000

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:20 AM

Further proof that captains really need to reconsider the significance of driving accuracy when evaluating potential picks and pairings:

http://www.golfwrx.c..._content=unused

After hearing this virtual confession that Phil was unfit for the team, do we really believe he wouldn't have b****ed about being left off had Jimmy not given him the nod?
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#85 Roadking2003

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 06:22 PM

View Postsmeech8000, on 08 October 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Further proof that captains really need to reconsider the significance of driving accuracy when evaluating potential picks and pairings:

http://www.golfwrx.c..._content=unused

After hearing this virtual confession that Phil was unfit for the team, do we really believe he wouldn't have b****ed about being left off had Jimmy not given him the nod?

Tiger was also unfit for the team, getting pounded and losing 0-4-0.   Would he have bitched about being left off too?


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#86 farmer

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:07 PM

From what I've read, RC revenue basically funds the Euro tour, so even though the top players are in the US regularly, they may have more motivation.  As a captain, insist on everyone visiting the venue, ask that players play some foursomes and fourball from time to time.  I read about these epic matches around Jupiter, get them to play some different formats from time to time.  Then, absolutely insist that every player recognize fairways and greens as being separate entities from rough and water.

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#87 Smash Factors

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:45 PM

IMO, the Ryder Cup is not as bad for the USA as everyone makes it out to be.

Since 1991, Europe has won 9 Ryder Cups and the USA has won 5. Just looking at that, Europe has won 4 more Ryder Cups than the USA.

If however, if the USA had won only 2 more during that period, the series would then be tied 7 to 7. So even though were down by 4, were only behind by 2.

Even if you go back to only 1999, the series would be tied 5 to 5 if the USA had won only two more.

If you go back to 2008, the series would be tied if the USA had won only one more (3 to 3).

If you go back to 2010, if we had won only one more, we would be down by one (3 to 2)

Throughout the last 20 Ryder Cups, if the USA had won only two more the series would be tied 10 to 10.

And there has been some close matches throughout the years. In 1995, 1997, 2010 and 2012 we lost by only one point.

Of course this doesn't solve the problem of playing catch-up, where the USA will need to win the next 4 Ryder Cups to tie it all up.
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#88 Bingo1976

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:55 AM

View PostSmash Factors, on 08 October 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

IMO, the Ryder Cup is not as bad for the USA as everyone makes it out to be.

Since 1991, Europe has won 9 Ryder Cups and the USA has won 5. Just looking at that, Europe has won 4 more Ryder Cups than the USA.

If however, if the USA had won only 2 more during that period, the series would then be tied 7 to 7. So even though were down by 4, were only behind by 2.

Even if you go back to only 1999, the series would be tied 5 to 5 if the USA had won only two more.

If you go back to 2008, the series would be tied if the USA had won only one more (3 to 3).

If you go back to 2010, if we had won only one more, we would be down by one (3 to 2)

Throughout the last 20 Ryder Cups, if the USA had won only two more the series would be tied 10 to 10.

And there has been some close matches throughout the years. In 1995, 1997, 2010 and 2012 we lost by only one point.

Of course this doesn't solve the problem of playing catch-up, where the USA will need to win the next 4 Ryder Cups to tie it all up.

So you're saying it would be closer if the US had won more?
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#89 smeech8000

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 07:55 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 08 October 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

View Postsmeech8000, on 08 October 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Further proof that captains really need to reconsider the significance of driving accuracy when evaluating potential picks and pairings:

http://www.golfwrx.c..._content=unused

After hearing this virtual confession that Phil was unfit for the team, do we really believe he wouldn't have b****ed about being left off had Jimmy not given him the nod?

Tiger was also unfit for the team, getting pounded and losing 0-4-0.   Would he have bitched about being left off too?

The results showed that he still can't compete in this event, however his play during the season definitely warranted the pick IMO.  Although he probably wouldn't have outright bitched (about being left off) I could definitely see him taking veiled potshots at Jim, et al, in an interview here and there, especially since he went on to win the Tour Championship after the selection.

A bit different scenario compared to Phil though given TW's status as a Vice Captain, so he already would have been "on the team" just not as a player.
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#90 Smash Factors

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 12:47 PM

View PostBingo1976, on 09 October 2018 - 01:55 AM, said:

View PostSmash Factors, on 08 October 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

IMO, the Ryder Cup is not as bad for the USA as everyone makes it out to be.

Since 1991, Europe has won 9 Ryder Cups and the USA has won 5. Just looking at that, Europe has won 4 more Ryder Cups than the USA.

If however, if the USA had won only 2 more during that period, the series would then be tied 7 to 7. So even though were down by 4, were only behind by 2.

Even if you go back to only 1999, the series would be tied 5 to 5 if the USA had won only two more.

If you go back to 2008, the series would be tied if the USA had won only one more (3 to 3).

If you go back to 2010, if we had won only one more, we would be down by one (3 to 2)

Throughout the last 20 Ryder Cups, if the USA had won only two more the series would be tied 10 to 10.

And there has been some close matches throughout the years. In 1995, 1997, 2010 and 2012 we lost by only one point.

Of course this doesn't solve the problem of playing catch-up, where the USA will need to win the next 4 Ryder Cups to tie it all up.

So you're saying it would be closer if the US had won more?

It's not the disaster everyone is making it out to be. People are acting like the series is 12-1.

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