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Ryder Cup disappointment


194 replies to this topic

#31 Konklifer

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

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#32 Caddykev

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM

View PostLennon Mccartney, on 01 October 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

View Postjimb6golf, on 01 October 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup.  The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough.  The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well.  Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:
*  Pick players that really want to be there.  Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs.
*  Learn to work together, especially on foursomes.  Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.
* Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour schedule.

Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.
Have you ever considered that maybe the American's just don't really care about a team Exhibition that comes around every two years? Maybe it is that simple? Have you considered that maybe the American's design their schedule, priorities and practice around the Majors? Because golf is an individual sport with individual accolades...i think people are reading a little too deep into this...i find it troubling that the likes of Ian Poulter, Colin Montgomerie, Lee Westwood, Paul Mcginley, Thomas Bjorn, and Sam Torrance need to beat their chest every two years because they lose sight of the fact that they never closed the door in a Major and need to rely on others to do their bidding for them...Did Brooks Keopka, Dustin Johnson or Phil Mickelson look like they gave a damn this week?...the answer is no...because they let their majors do their talking for them...
Exactly. The benchmark is Jack’s major record, not his Ryder Cup record.  I caddie for a guy that is a member at the Bears Club and knows pretty well a few of the guys on tour that play and practice there.  He said that one of the US guys told him that a lot of guys would skip it if they weren’t afraid of hurting their brand and popularity that brings in the sponsor dollars after he had a few drinks. Said that most guys feel like Rory when he made his exhibition comments, but can’t afford to take the hits that Rory can financially  so they play the game and act hyped to be there, and act excited when they talk to the press.  Who knows if this is true or if the guy I caddie for is being honest since he never disclosed the player but the vibe of our team sure made it appear that way.

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#33 bullsfan

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM

IMO the whole system needs to be blown up! Or we will continue to witness countless butt kickings like this every two years. I do believe there are more American PGA Tour Golfers who care about the Ryder Cup and winning it then the top players that are regularly chosen to be on the squad, yes they seem to be the ones who qualify every two years but this is an attribute of them competing by themselves for personal glory and money. They set their schedules for these events and the "Team" aspects of their success take a back seat despite what they say or how they appear to act. Hell, the only team members who genuinely appeared to enjoy their time there competing were JT and Finau, I believe BAD wanted it but his game does not translate to these formats.

I believe that in order to change the outcomes of these formats is to pick the best players based on location of the event, not by who is top of the money list and qualified with points.
I also think the US should stop playing the Presidents Cup! Team Europe plays this type of event every two years and prepares for it, because it means a ton to them. The US plays in these type of events every year and does not prepare in the same way Europe does, our teams are stretched to thin and couple that with playing for themselves and their major schedules it leaves very little time to really prepare for team events.

I am like a lot of people here on this forum with a passion for golf and country and want to see our teams do well in these events. I don't claim to have all the answers but from years of watching and participating in golf at a high level I feel I have some insight to why it's not working for us. Something needs to change or why bother playing these events anymore. They are not even competitive. Oh and one last thing, TAKE OUT THE POLITICS!
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#34 dlygrisse

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:10 PM

No ping pong tables, that's where I draw the line.  ping pong is a distraction, plus it messes with your timing.  Leave the WAG's at home as well, take a vacation when the event is over.  I'd get Tiger a hooker though.
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#35 Naptime

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:11 PM

If we consider American football to be the epitome of US team sports...the tight end doesn't have to be best buds with the running back, he just has to make the block to seal the edge for an outside run.  At some point guys either make shots or they don't.  It's execution under pressure.  

If the scramble is the most common US manifestation of team golf for average hackers, being pals with the guys hasn't seemed to help anyone's play.  They still chunk it into the hazard and 4 guys miss the same putt by feet.

Would they all try harder if the winning team split 25 million (dollars, pounds, or Euros)?  Would be interesting to find out.


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#36 bscinstnct

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:14 PM

View PostHackerGT, on 01 October 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 01 October 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

View Postik ben groot, on 01 October 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 01 October 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 01 October 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

I think "pick the players that really want to be there"  is the key.  We need a true team, not an all star team.

Makes all the difference.

Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:

Tiger
Phil
Bubba
Rickie
And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.

Team will be young and hungry overall.
Agree. Unfortunately Bubba a Rickie were auto qualifiers. I wouldn't expect Bubba to in two years but who knows. I'm sure Rickie will be on there. Personally I don't think he should be on the team. He's dreadful at match play

I'm saying,

No more auto qualifying if you are over 30 and have a losing RC record. Under my system, It's the opposite,

Auto-disqualifying

The only way to make the team if you are over 30 is if you have a winning record or it's your first time.

It's a basic way to screen out people who have done well during the season but have not performed in the RC.


You get it right. Or, youre terminated ; )

Posted Image

ages of European Ryder Cup captain's picks

Paul Casey 41
Sergio Garcia 38
Ian Poulter 42
Henrik Stenson 42

age didn't seem to be a problem for them.

Justin Rose is 38
Francesco Molinari is 35. He was 0-4-2 in two previous Ryder Cups.
Alex Noren rookie is 36

Don't think age is the problem for U.S. team, it's desire. The U.S. team is a bunch of individuals placed together for 1 week for an event which happens every other year. I honestly do not think Tiger loses a moment of sleep over this loss. He doesn't care that much.

Age isn't a problem.... for the Euros.

They have plenty of strong performers of every age. Their selection process is just fine, for them.

But it doesn't mean it's not an issue for us.

But we have guys over 30 who are constant losers.

This is simple. If you are a bad performer in the RC consistently, you don't get to play in it.

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#37 Hawkeye77

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:19 PM

Really just the same old stuff found in about 4 other threads and regurgitated from threads 4 years ago.

Where is it written we win every year?

Again, we won 2 years ago and the "task force" was brilliant, got those pods back, lol.

I'm not at all disappointed, not like we lost the battle for Iwo Jima, and I'm not one of the 12 who played.

Europe played better and has no "magic" formula, heck Rose and Fleetwood lost on Sunday, nothing guaranteed.

Stenson had a solid and stellar (and he noted, possibly last Ryder Cup on European soil), happy for him.  

Lots of things go into it, but too much being made of the course and the "process" and other crap that when it comes down to it, guys just have to perform and golf doesn't always allow you to have the A game.

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#38 BrianMcG

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:25 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 01 October 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

No ping pong tables, that's where I draw the line.  ping pong is a distraction, plus it messes with your timing.  Leave the WAG's at home as well, take a vacation when the event is over.  I'd get Tiger a hooker though.

Yes. The whole entourage with the wives is ridiculous. What was with all the prom pics. I'm mean WTF. It was more a fashion show and a place for Paulina to pad her Instagram book with photos.

Next year I'd give them nothing. Their uniforms are a white cotton polo and a USA hat. They get to stay in a Red Roof Inn, and they have to walk to the course. My mantra would be  " Only closers get coffee!"

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#39 golfandfishing

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:27 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

Week to week they might play the same game, but 1 week every 2 years they adapt and hit fairways and greens. Rory was the only one that stuck with his normal game plan and he performed mediocre/poorly. The Americans flailed away and scrambled to halve holes, they rarely had putts to win, every time you looked up the euros had 2 putts to win or America had 15 feet to tie. Impossible to win like that, no matter how much you love your partner.

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#40 ryanarneson

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:30 PM

View Postbullsfan, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

IMO the whole system needs to be blown up! Or we will continue to witness countless butt kickings like this every two years. I do believe there are more American PGA Tour Golfers who care about the Ryder Cup and winning it then the top players that are regularly chosen to be on the squad, yes they seem to be the ones who qualify every two years but this is an attribute of them competing by themselves for personal glory and money. They set their schedules for these events and the "Team" aspects of their success take a back seat despite what they say or how they appear to act. Hell, the only team members who genuinely appeared to enjoy their time there competing were JT and Finau, I believe BAD wanted it but his game does not translate to these formats.

I believe that in order to change the outcomes of these formats is to pick the best players based on location of the event, not by who is top of the money list and qualified with points.
I also think the US should stop playing the Presidents Cup! Team Europe plays this type of event every two years and prepares for it, because it means a ton to them. The US plays in these type of events every year and does not prepare in the same way Europe does, our teams are stretched to thin and couple that with playing for themselves and their major schedules it leaves very little time to really prepare for team events.

I am like a lot of people here on this forum with a passion for golf and country and want to see our teams do well in these events. I don't claim to have all the answers but from years of watching and participating in golf at a high level I feel I have some insight to why it's not working for us. Something needs to change or why bother playing these events anymore. They are not even competitive. Oh and one last thing, TAKE OUT THE POLITICS!

Nobody is going to watch an Exhibition match contested by players other than the most popular players currently on Tour. There is no formula that gets, for example, a Beau Hoessler out there over Dustin Johnson because Beau happens to be able to get his driver in the fairway 5% better, that anyone wants to see. A steady-eddy Billy Horschel is not going to take Brook Koepka's spot until BK stops winning majors.

That goes double for a healthy Tiger Woods. Nobody will give any legitimacy to a contest with a healthy, competitive Tiger Woods sitting at home. His RC record is a moot point. He's Tiger Woods. He'll tell everyone when he's done. Not the other way around.

You might as well cancel the entire thing if you think you can craft a team that leaves the World #1, or the two-time defending US Open Champ, or players like Tiger Woods off for any reason whatsoever.


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#41 Bad9

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:33 PM

View Postjimb6golf, on 01 October 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup.  The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough.  The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well.  Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:
*  Pick players that really want to be there.  Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs. I would bet every single one of them wanted to be there.
*  Learn to work together, especially on foursomes.  Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way. I imagine they do this
* Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour scheduleNo. A hundred times no. The RC has history and tradition whereas the PC is a made up money grab by the PGA Tour. If the PC causes trouble for PGA Tour scheduling eliminate it.

I also think the bomb and gauge aspect is being overblown. Does anyone think Rory and Rahm arent bomb and gaugers.


Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.

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#42 JohnnyCashForever

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:33 PM

Some random musings:

1. How long did Captain Furyk know about the rift between Rebel Reed and Jordan?  Why wasn't this rift addressed earlier in the year?  If the differences were irreconcilable, why wasn't a plan put in place weeks ago to break the news directly to Reed, let it sink in, let him make peace with the divorce, and then work with him to find a different partner?  It almost sounds like Reed was totally surprised by the split from Jordan.  If true, then he was set up to fail.  He should have overcome it, but why did he have to?  So instead of thinking about conquering the Euros on Friday and Saturday, Reed was thinking about the divorce.

2. How long ago did Captain Furyk know about the course set-up?  Why didn't he pick players who are better suited for precision over power?  Kisner perhaps?  Why didn't he mandate that all potential team members play the French Open in 2017 or 2018?  Justin played this year.  He did well in the tournament.  That must have helped considerably at the Ryder Cup.

3. Watching Tiger walk around the course like a fragile old man was painful.  It reminded me of watching Dan Marino play his final year for the Dolphins.

4. Why were the Americans wearing those ridiculous see-through white pants on Sunday?

5. Who was the woman celebrating with Molinari and the Euros on the 17th tee on Sunday?  

6. The US had 10.5 points.  That averages out to 3.5 points a day.  Could random daily lineups been any worse than the actual lineups?

7. I was kinda happy to see Noren sink that putt on 18 on Sunday.  I think his opponent had something to do with it.

8. This year's Cup result makes the mutiny of 2014 even more shameful.  Tom Watson should tell anyone who will listen, "Hey, I had a mutiny and still got 11.5 points."

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#43 bluetees1999

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:34 PM

View Postryanarneson, on 01 October 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Postbullsfan, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

IMO the whole system needs to be blown up! Or we will continue to witness countless butt kickings like this every two years. I do believe there are more American PGA Tour Golfers who care about the Ryder Cup and winning it then the top players that are regularly chosen to be on the squad, yes they seem to be the ones who qualify every two years but this is an attribute of them competing by themselves for personal glory and money. They set their schedules for these events and the "Team" aspects of their success take a back seat despite what they say or how they appear to act. Hell, the only team members who genuinely appeared to enjoy their time there competing were JT and Finau, I believe BAD wanted it but his game does not translate to these formats.

I believe that in order to change the outcomes of these formats is to pick the best players based on location of the event, not by who is top of the money list and qualified with points.
I also think the US should stop playing the Presidents Cup! Team Europe plays this type of event every two years and prepares for it, because it means a ton to them. The US plays in these type of events every year and does not prepare in the same way Europe does, our teams are stretched to thin and couple that with playing for themselves and their major schedules it leaves very little time to really prepare for team events.

I am like a lot of people here on this forum with a passion for golf and country and want to see our teams do well in these events. I don't claim to have all the answers but from years of watching and participating in golf at a high level I feel I have some insight to why it's not working for us. Something needs to change or why bother playing these events anymore. They are not even competitive. Oh and one last thing, TAKE OUT THE POLITICS!

Nobody is going to watch an Exhibition match contested by players other than the most popular players currently on Tour. There is no formula that gets, for example, a Beau Hoessler out there over Dustin Johnson because Beau happens to be able to get his driver in the fairway 5% better, that anyone wants to see. A steady-eddy Billy Horschel is not going to take Brook Koepka's spot until BK stops winning majors.

That goes double for a healthy Tiger Woods. Nobody will give any legitimacy to a contest with a healthy, competitive Tiger Woods sitting at home. His RC record is a moot point. He's Tiger Woods. He'll tell everyone when he's done. Not the other way around.

You might as well cancel the entire thing if you think you can craft a team that leaves the World #1, or the two-time defending US Open Champ, or players like Tiger Woods off for any reason whatsoever.
Great point here.  They Ryder Cup is a huge cash cow for the PGA of America.  Same reason the PGA Tour changed the format of the WGC match play.  So its more likely to get top players on the weekend not have DJ, Rickie, Jordan, etc get knocked out of Wednesday.

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#44 tsecor

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:36 PM

never put spieth in singles matches.....

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#45 ryanarneson

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:42 PM

View PostJohnnyCashForever, on 01 October 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:


2. How long ago did Captain Furyk know about the course set-up?  Why didn't he pick players who are better suited for precision over power?  Kisner perhaps?  Why didn't he mandate that all potential team members play the French Open in 2017 or 2018?  Justin played this year.  He did well in the tournament.  That must have helped considerably at the Ryder Cup.


He's got 4 picks in theory, but the reality is that he had maybe one.

Tiger and Phil were locks as long as they were healthy. BD played himself on by winning two FedEx tourneys.

So you swap Kisner with Finau? That's the fix?

The RC captain could have 12 captain's picks and he'd still end up with almost the exact same team as they end up with every year. There isn't some huge stable of dependable talent out there being overlooked that you could pick from and still be considered a legitimate team in the eyes of everyone in the world not commenting on this thread.

A team without TW is not legitimate. A team without the World's #1 is not legitimate. A team without the winner of the last two US Open's is not legitimate. A team without "Captain America Reed" would not have been legitimate.


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#46 cwglum

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:43 PM

Does the Ryder Cup Captain have to be a former Tour Pro golfer?

Our crop of available captains have only known losing in this event and often times in a big way.
How does that selection process start ... "What worked best for you when you lost?"

Edited by cwglum, 01 October 2018 - 12:46 PM.


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#47 jdl

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

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#48 Bad9

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:51 PM

View PostBlueIslander80, on 01 October 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.

1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.

2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything in between.And yet at least 7 of the Euro tema are full time PGA Tour players.

The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.

I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.

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#49 The Pearl

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:54 PM

View Postryanarneson, on 01 October 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

View PostJohnnyCashForever, on 01 October 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

2. How long ago did Captain Furyk know about the course set-up?  Why didn't he pick players who are better suited for precision over power?  Kisner perhaps?  Why didn't he mandate that all potential team members play the French Open in 2017 or 2018?  Justin played this year.  He did well in the tournament.  That must have helped considerably at the Ryder Cup.


He's got 4 picks in theory, but the reality is that he had maybe one.

Tiger and Phil were locks as long as they were healthy. BD played himself on by winning two FedEx tourneys.

So you swap Kisner with Finau? That's the fix?

The RC captain could have 12 captain's picks and he'd still end up with almost the exact same team as they end up with every year. There isn't some huge stable of dependable talent out there being overlooked that you could pick from and still be considered a legitimate team in the eyes of everyone in the world not commenting on this thread.

A team without TW is not legitimate. A team without the World's #1 is not legitimate. A team without the winner of the last two US Open's is not legitimate. A team without "Captain America Reed" would not have been legitimate.

Excellent point. No Captain is going to leave off current major champions, a player hot over the last several months leading to the RC, or the world's #1, for Kevin Kisner, or some other run of the mill tour player because they have some specific stat in which they are proficient.   If a Captain where to do this and lose, they would be the laughing stock of the pro golf fraternity forever.  Blackballed as a kook.  

The whole reason they limit the Captain's pick and make the bulk of team qualify without human intervention is to keep some nut job from going off the rails.  It is like leaving Lebron off the U.S. team in favor of Trevor Ariza.

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#50 Rweaves6

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:54 PM

Most of the Europeans have always seen the RC as their 5th major. Never once heard an American say the same thing. For me that says it all.


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#51 Konklifer

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.
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#52 shanx

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:00 PM

Its a mess, and something needs to change.

I think the selection system is where to start, how about a team of volunteers? Or maybe select from a field that is not top 10 players? Most of our "big guns" were spent from Fed Ex races, maybe start somewhere else?

And having Tiger as the next coach would be silly. Let's get Bill Parcells!

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#53 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:08 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

Irrespective of what you call it, the PGA would be wise to either grow the rough at a few Tour events. 60 yard wide fairways isn't golf, regardless of whether you have a hard on for distance. If it was, we wouldn't have the trophy. Again.

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#54 manku

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:08 PM

Woods and Phil are the two most popular and successful golfers the past 20 years...by a large margin, especially off the course. (not counting Palmer/Nicklaus/Norman...just active golfers in their prime).

No way the PGA of America would let any captain pass on them unless they were injured or playing terribly (OWGR outside of top 50?)...Woods was playing well, and Phil won earlier this year.

Money talks...

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#55 cmatthews77

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:20 PM

I know and get the "win as a team and lose as a team mantra" and that's what they should say but in my humble opinion the Ryder Cup loss largely falls upon 2 players...

Tiger Woods
Dustin Johnson

People can blame Phil and Bubba and they didn't necessarily play well but they also weren't in position to carry the team.  Phil was a -2 point total and Bubba was a -2 point total (-4 total).

Tiger and DJ who were put in the positions to lead the team combined to go 1-8 (a -7 point differential).  You simply can NOT have the guys you're asking to lead the team play that poorly.  If they simply go 5-4 (a +1 differential) that's an 8-point swing.  It's really that simple.

Sure there were things the Captain did that many didn't agree with including splitting up Reed/Spieth and playing Phil in Friday foursomes instead of four-ball but that was one point from Phil.  Spieth/JT were a positive pairing so that didn't have a big impact.

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#56 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:21 PM

Agree with the above about DJ and Tiger to some extent. Same with Fowler, you cannot legislate for how poorly they played, number of balls in the water, 2-6 footers missed. The whole thing was flat.

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#57 jdl

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:22 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

Right. The first 2, sure.

Rose was #43 and Fleetwood #64 on the tour for driving accuracy. And they were 3rd and 5th on the European team. Only Rickie on the US side was ahead of Fleetwood.

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#58 BlueIslander80

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostJonnyKrasnodar, on 01 October 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

Irrespective of what you call it, the PGA would be wise to either grow the rough at a few Tour events. 60 yard wide fairways isn't golf, regardless of whether you have a hard on for distance. If it was, we wouldn't have the trophy. Again.

Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood & Rose can all hit big when needed on those easy PGA tour courses because that's all they need. However, they learnt to play golf on coastal courses, links courses, parkland courses that aren't manicured and have rough. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. It is literally in their blood. Luke Donald became no1 without ever being more than a comparatively short driver of the ball, but his shot shaping and approach game is magnificent. The same as the guys above and the same as Oosthuizen and a select few Americans like Zach Johnson.

It all comes down to upbringing. American golfers only know one form of golf from childhood onwards, and adapt occasionally if they can. Europeans learn all skills of multiple disciplines and then take it to the USA and add in big driving.

I stand by this... If it was 2 majors in Europe and 2 majors in the USA you would see a hell of a lot less Americans with 2+ majors.

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#59 cmatthews77

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:27 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

I would only classify Rory as a "bomb and gouge" player out of that group.  Sure they all hit it a long way but that's not necessarily what "bomb and gouge" means in my opinion.  Fleetwood and Rose specifically are very accurate players who have good mid-range games.  Bomb and gouge players like DJ and Rory simply like to take trouble away by hitting driver over all over the course and hit wedges into greens (one reason why Rory isn't winning more is his distance control with wedges have been inconsistent).  If you squeeze and shorten the course you see their games quickly marginalized.  You do NOT see that with players like Rose, Fleetwood, Justin Thomas, etc.
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#60 golfandfishing

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:29 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postjdl, on 01 October 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

How did Rory and Rahm do last week?  Their records were not good.

I don’t recall seeing Rose or Fleetwood playing from the gunch until their singles matches....which they lost to players who put the ball in play and on the green consistently.


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