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Ryder Cup disappointment


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#181 Bad9

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:31 AM

View Postlawsonman, on 09 October 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 09 October 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

I think the biggest issue with Phil and Tiger both was that they were both mentally shot. Phil played 12 out of 15 weeks and Tiger was emotionally shot from his victory at East Lake. Furyk said there was no way Phil and Tiger weren't going to be on the team because of what they meant to the rest of the team for their leadership. He said if he would have left one of them off he could have had big problems internally.

I see Phil as  leader in the same way as Odell Beckam Jr. is a leader.

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#182 lawsonman

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:41 AM

View PostBad9, on 10 October 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 09 October 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 09 October 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

I think the biggest issue with Phil and Tiger both was that they were both mentally shot. Phil played 12 out of 15 weeks and Tiger was emotionally shot from his victory at East Lake. Furyk said there was no way Phil and Tiger weren't going to be on the team because of what they meant to the rest of the team for their leadership. He said if he would have left one of them off he could have had big problems internally.

I see Phil as  leader in the same way as Odell Beckam Jr. is a leader.

I understand, but evidently other players love the guy.
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#183 Bad9

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:55 AM

View Postlawsonman, on 10 October 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

View PostBad9, on 10 October 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 09 October 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 09 October 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

I think the biggest issue with Phil and Tiger both was that they were both mentally shot. Phil played 12 out of 15 weeks and Tiger was emotionally shot from his victory at East Lake. Furyk said there was no way Phil and Tiger weren't going to be on the team because of what they meant to the rest of the team for their leadership. He said if he would have left one of them off he could have had big problems internally.

I see Phil as  leader in the same way as Odell Beckam Jr. is a leader.

I understand, but evidently other players love the guy.

OBJ or Phil?
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#184 lawsonman

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:09 AM

View PostBad9, on 10 October 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 10 October 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

View PostBad9, on 10 October 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 09 October 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 09 October 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

I think the biggest issue with Phil and Tiger both was that they were both mentally shot. Phil played 12 out of 15 weeks and Tiger was emotionally shot from his victory at East Lake. Furyk said there was no way Phil and Tiger weren't going to be on the team because of what they meant to the rest of the team for their leadership. He said if he would have left one of them off he could have had big problems internally.

I see Phil as  leader in the same way as Odell Beckam Jr. is a leader.

I understand, but evidently other players love the guy.

OBJ or Phil?

I've never paid any attention to OBJ. :)
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#185 USAF Retired E7

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:28 AM

The Ryder Cup task force should beg Zinger to captain again.

Furyk said he's only concerned with the comments from guys on the team and vice captains.  They're all stroking each other, and they are all part of the problem.  Now he's going to have input on the next captain and help him.....help him make the same dumb decisions?

In what universe did a captain and 5 vice captains decide Phil in foursomes was a good idea, when he wasn't ready for four ball?

Breaking Spieth and Reed because Tiger and JT wouldn't be a good team?  effin crazy

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#186 joey2aces

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:55 AM

I'd say Tiger was a disappointment if it wasn't expected.
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#187 ray9898

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 09:17 AM

View PostUSAF Retired E7, on 10 October 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:


Breaking Spieth and Reed because Tiger and JT wouldn't be a good team?  effin crazy

It is obvious Spieth and Reed are no longer compatible,  Reed and his entourage have made too many snide comments for it not to be a distraction.  They had to be broken up..

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#188 zonadub

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 02:51 PM

View Postlawsonman, on 09 October 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 06 October 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Phil was a wasted pick. Hes 2nd to last on tour in driving accuracy. That just wont fit to a euro rc event.

Its tough because phil and tiger are basically a lock until they die. But i wish a capt had the cahones to pick to the strength of the team

Phil was 3rd in putting which is what wins Ryder Cups. It's easy to say Phil was a wasted pick after the fact but no one was beating Molinari and having Phil play foursome's was just stupid.

As Gary McCord said when he won the putting award (before it was based on greens in regulation) - thanks for the prize for missing the most greens

As for the fact that Europe wins in Europe, we should not be surprised. We should be surprised when the visiting team wins. That is how sports competitions are...

What I would like to see (and I am a Phil fan) is for Mickelson to put up or shut up by being the next US captain when the Ryder cup is played in Europe (2022)
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#189 Forged4ever

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 10:50 AM

View PostFerguson, on 01 October 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

The team needs better leadership.  

Jim Furyk was not the guy to coach this team of individuals, in this event, on foreign soil, in 2018.  
And David Duval as a Vice Captain?  


It was lost before the first shot was struck.
Great thoughts Fergs and I couldnít agree more!!

First, I do not believe that a Playing peer of the team members should be the Captain. I look at the Captain of the RC team as more of a CEO, ie., putting the right pieces in the right positions(both with his Captainís picks and match pairings), dealing with and minimizing or eliminating any and all pre-match issues, whether they be on-course or off-course situations, to give them the best opportunity for success.

As Iíve said previously, knowing both Jim & Tabitha Furyk and there is no Classier guy on Tour today, and my heart broke for him sitting there at the presser and afterward because he was in waaaaaay over his head because just as Jim or any Player goes to his mentall vault for visions and thoughts of prior on-course successful swings, shots and outcomes to execute the three under the extreme pressure of Tournament golf, whether it be a regular PGA Tourney or a Major,  one also must have the ability to draw from that mental vault for off-course and everyday events and situations.

Never really having been in this or really ANY leadership position before his RC Captainís selection, Jim had absolutely NOTHING to draw on mentally, so this left him to do what anyone would do in this situation, lean on his Vice-Captains and Team Members and just listening to Phil in the Presser, and please go back and listen to him again if you do not know what I am speaking to, and his description of both Jim and his RC actions, decisions and thoughts are those of a FRIEND speaking of a FRIEND, not a team member speaking of their Captain, and THIS was the problem.

While input, feedback & individual team membersí sentiments are indeed critical to overall team, organization and/or group success, it cannot be a democracy!!

And no, a dictatorship in todayís world with todayís Players wont get it done either

Itís gotta be a benevolent dictatorship!!

Did ya catch that???

A BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP!!!

THAT takes a certain personality type!!

Not the Nicest guy available!!

Not the friendliest guy available!!

And most certainly not the most popular guy available!!

He/sheís gotta be firm, confident, decisive, aggressive when necessary and in control of all situations at ALL times.

Jim Furyk is not that man.

Yes, the members said all of the right things in the post-Cup presser, well, most of em, lmao, however I was watching their body language on Saturday and they didnít have it!!

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words and after the US had lost those four straight matches on Saturday, they showed Tiger, Phil and Jordan, and I love Jordan, but they were lost!!!

And all of this Post-Cup strife and garbage has been brewing below the surface for months, at least, and it should have been brought out of the dark and into the open, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS OR IN THE LOCKER ROOM PRIOR TO THE US TEAM EVER LEAVING OUR SHORES!!!

Anyone breaks that rule and theyíre off the team!!

And no, I donít care who it is because the team is bigger than any one individual.

Believe me, I can get humiliated without Phil Mickelson.

Jordan, I can understand as heís still a ďkid,Ē however Tiger & Phil??

Thatís unforgivable if Iím the Captain

You may not Play like a Champion but youíd damn well better carry yourself as one!!

You look at who has always shown up for the Euros, regardless of their level of Play leading up to and during the Cup~

Monty!!

Sergio!!

Ian!!!!!

No matter how they are Playing, win lose or draw, they bring an attitude and swagger that is priceless!!!

Historically, the big Dogs, the top of the line-up, have to bring home approximately 60%+ of the point total for the winning Cup teams and until the US Big Dogs not only show up, but they PLAY, the US will continue along this roller coaster road.

Iíve read a few posts where guys say that this isnít a ďteamĒ event at all and it comes down to just Playing great as an individual and it doesnít matter cuz if 5-6 guys Play great, ya win.

#1, when thatís the outcome, ya get what the US gets, uneven, inconsistent and more often than not, losing results. The reason for that should be obvious.

Secondly, when I see these comments I know instantly that the OP has never ever Played in a team golf event.

EVER!!

Itís not like a football team

Itís not like a basketball team

Itís not like a soccer team

The pressure is much more intense!!

I realize that to literally compare an Inter-Club RC style team event to the Ryder Cup is crazy however I assure that those of you that have know exactly of what I speak.

Having Played on and Captained such teams, while the size & scope is obviously not even comparable, I can assure you that Playing Jay Sigel, Duke Delcher or Nathan Smith for the deciding points in two of those three matches, with 700-800 fans following you, along with your wife/sig other, family, friends, your team members and team members from other clubs, would leave most of ya speechless and numb, and thatís IF ya were a Plus Player to start with, lolol😉

Playing for yourself is one thing. However when you look into the gallery and see your teammates, who are depending on you to Play well and win, itís a ln intensity & pressure that I didnít ever feel on a football field, in front of 60,000-75,000+, and itís virtually impossible to isolate yourself mentally.

You guys that have ďbeen there,Ē know exactly of what I speak.

Now ratchet that intensity emotion & pressure up about a thousand fold, and instead of 700-800 peeps, youíve got a small football stadiumís worth of peeps on the course and tens of millions more watching on TV worldwide, well, itís not even remotely the same as a Tour event or even a Major.

Those tourneys are for YOU

A team event is for everyone BUT you, lol

This is what the US just doesnít get.

Europe most certainly does!!

And win lose or draw, their actions always match their words!!!

Oh, and I love how they finally moved the gallery ropes back, hahaha.

We had ďtightĒ ropes back in the 90ís when I was Playin in the Inter-Club and though we only had hundreds lining the fairways, the tight ropes mad it great if ya sprayed your ball cuz chances are that it would hit someone in the gallery and fall or stop in the close proximity of them, with the rough being trampled down so Oakmontís 5-6Ē rough was about half that and matted, lol. However when we hosted the Finals, especially against Oakmont, who had no shortage of bombers, we moved the ropes back to let the second cut come into play, though we kept it at 4-5Ē. Also, ya didnít yell ďforeĒ as that would give peeps time to scatter and then WTF, it lost its benefit, lmao.

Believe me, we got that trick from Oakmont, who got it from their former HP and Ryder Cupper(1947, he went 2-0) Lew Worsham(and 1947 US Open Winner)

So I see that the Euros moved the ropes back to let the rough come into Play, lmao

Great move!!

We see how that worked out for Jim & the boys😂😂

I mean HowITF can a world class Pro out a HYBRID in the water????

Better yet, an IRON😂😂???

Though in all seriousness, instead of the US doin all of this pod bullshat, they should take the Eurosí template, make it their own, and learn from this humiliation.

They wonít do this, but they should😂😂

Thatís what a Champion would do😉

So these are my scattered discombobulated thoughts on the 2018 Ryder Cup😎

You know me and my novellas😜

Stay well Gents and have a great day🍻
RP

Edited by Forged4ever, 15 October 2018 - 03:14 PM.

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#190 Ferguson

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:09 AM

Great Leaders are great decision makers.  They make the call good or bad based on their experience and what's in their gut.   I think Jimbo got pushed around and let the egos and arrogance of his players affect his decision-making.  


Ben Crenshaw (gentle by nature) was a great leader.  He gave a clear and cogent expectation to the team, and told his players to execute and win.


I like Jim as a Vice Captain.   As a Top Dog he folded.
He's another guy who should NOT be in the HOF.


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#191 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 12:39 PM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 01 October 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

While I agree completely and have posted such over the weekend on the bomb and gouge tactic making u.s. tour players inferior golfers - the pga tour is absolutely not going to change the style of play required on their tour to facilitate a once every two years event that they have zero to do with.

Bomb and gouge with free relief from anything remotely in the way has made these guys exceptional PGA Tour players. It has made them inferior golfers.
Inferior golfers? They had a bad week. 3 of the last 6 British winners are American. DJ, Rickie, JT, theyíve all had success there. Even won on Euro courses. Every time the US loses a RC itís the end of the world. Our players suck. We will win at Whistling Straits, and the Euroís wonít immed go stand on a ledge. Yes that course exposed some of our weaknesses, but we couldnít even hit fairways with irons. We didnít make any putts at all. The Euros made putts. DJ, JT, Spieth, Brooks, Rickie, Reed, Tiger...they are not inferior players. They just all seemed to play bad golf the same week.

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 11 October 2018 - 01:45 PM.

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#192 Bad9

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:14 PM

Still haven't seen anything from Phil over the course of his career that leads me to think he is, or would be, a good leader.
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#193 IVM

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:46 PM

He is a legend in his own mind so of course he would be.

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#194 lawsonman

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 06:04 AM

View PostIVM, on 14 October 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

He is a legend in his own mind so of course he would be.

5 majors, 43 wins during the Tiger era makes him one of the best to ever play the game. I think he's entitled to have some ego just like you're entitled to hate on him.
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#195 bladehunter

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 07:25 AM

View Postlawsonman, on 15 October 2018 - 06:04 AM, said:

View PostIVM, on 14 October 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

He is a legend in his own mind so of course he would be.

5 majors, 43 wins during the Tiger era makes him one of the best to ever play the game. I think he's entitled to have some ego just like you're entitled to hate on him.

yep..Hate Phil all you want..But theres only 1 active player with a better resume...and maybe 10-15 all time with a better resume.... hes earned his ego.   good captain ?  eh... i dont know.. probably not

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