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Anybody else had this issue?


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#1 airjammer

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 08:28 AM

I have 2.5 year old daughter. I work 7 days a week (not optional) and her mother doesn’t work. My daughter is absolutely hell’s spawn when with her mother...needy, practically non stop tantrums etc. My daughter attends 2  mother’s day out for a total of 20 hours a week.  She is a perfect child at the Mother’s day out,  with me alone, or anyone else but her mother  My daughter has extreme tantrums when her mother leaves the house and slight brief tantrums when left at Mother’s Day out.

There isn’t any family help..her mother helped for 2 years but went back to her home country and my parents are 80+  

Anyone had a child like this and did anything help with this issue?

Edited by airjammer, 30 September 2018 - 08:58 AM.


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#2 golfandfishing

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 08:51 AM

I’m not sure I follow your post - she is perfect child with you or anyone else and at mother’s day out, but she also has extreme tantrums when not with her mother?

We have a 2 year old, my wife stays at home with him, no behavior issues but might have some insight if you can clear up your post a bit?

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#3 airjammer

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 08:56 AM

Sorry, She is perfect as long as her mother isn’t around other than after her mother leaves her. Her mother leaves to go workout..15 minute screaming kicking tantrum. After the 15 minutes, happy, laughing, calm kid.

Edited by airjammer, 30 September 2018 - 09:03 AM.


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#4 golfandfishing

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:10 AM

That’s tough, for about 6 months our son would cry hard when mom left. He got over it when he learned to wave bye and say bye bye, something about that clicked and he made the connection that she was coming back.

Is your daughter mad that mom is leaving, or anxiety about what will happen in her absence?  If she’s upset about mom leaving and losing attention then your wife might be smothering her a bit. At 2.5 she should be playing on her own a bit at home. If mom doesn’t let her and plays with her 100% of the time she is going to upset when mom leaves.

If her tantrums are out of worry when mom leaves you might want to have a look at the caregivers of Mother’s Day out.

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#5 Chief Illiniwek

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:34 AM

It's my understanding sometimes kids act out with the person they are most comfortable with. I have a similar situation. My boy is perfect almost all the time except when my wife is around. It frustrates her because she wants good times with him but with her seems to be when he releases a lot of his emotions. She's tried lots of different methods for not much result. Just a phase hopefully. I will say, my wife kinda has a negative, sarcastic personality (not a bad person or anything, just how she expresses herself) and I often wonder if that's part of it. I'm pretty positive most of the time and he's generally awesome for me. Wife teaches and I farm.


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#6 airjammer

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 11:00 AM

View PostChief Illiniwek, on 30 September 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

It's my understanding sometimes kids act out with the person they are most comfortable with. I have a similar situation. My boy is perfect almost all the time except when my wife is around. It frustrates her because she wants good times with him but with her seems to be when he releases a lot of his emotions. She's tried lots of different methods for not much result. Just a phase hopefully. I will say, my wife kinda has a negative, sarcastic personality (not a bad person or anything, just how she expresses herself) and I often wonder if that's part of it. I'm pretty positive most of the time and he's generally awesome for me. Wife teaches and I farm.

Thanks for the replies

That generally sounds like my situation but this has been going on for about a year.

All indications point to her mother and everyone I talked to at work says the same.

She is a know it all but never actually done it or be willing to do it spoiled high tempered person that says hurtful things that she shouldn’t and doesn’t have any remorse about it. It’s a theory if mine that you are sadisticly attached to the person who treats you the worst.  That sounds more awful than it really is. She is absolutely loved by her friends and small children gravitate towards her.

Anyway I personally believe she acts this way because her mother will give in to pretty much any request if she cries because her mother absolutely can’t tolerate it. Just as a example, my daughter is a very poor eater. When she could eat solid food it was a absolute struggle. Her mother, grandmother, and I finally gave in let her watch YouTube while she eats. It has evolved to where she wants to watch it anytime she is at home. When I get home, I turn it off if she isn’t eating. If her mother had already left the house there isn’t a fight, if her mother is there she goes crying and screaming to her mother. Depending on how bad of a day it’s been, it stays off generally.

I’ve tried to tell her to never give in and yes it might be worse for a short time but once she learns when you say no, there isn’t a chance of it changing to yes she will stop trying.

I’m just at my whits end..thanks for the collective ear

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#7 Wriggles

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 05:38 AM

Ignore the screaming and tantrums.  (Just observe, so the child doesn't get hurt.)  If she doesn't get the results she expects, she will just quit.

No is no.  I learned that from my mother, probably at the same age as your daughter.  No was NO, even when Mom passed at age 87.

Good luck!

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#8 scomac2002

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 05:57 AM

View PostWriggles, on 02 October 2018 - 05:38 AM, said:

Ignore the screaming and tantrums.  (Just observe, so the child doesn't get hurt.)  If she doesn't get the results she expects, she will just quit.

No is no.  I learned that from my mother, probably at the same age as your daughter.  No was NO, even when Mom passed at age 87.

Good luck!

Agreed.

Our oldest son was not a sleeper.  It would take forever to get him to fall asleep in the evening.  What used to take a half hour then became an hour and then an hour and a half.  At some point, my wife was advised to just let him cry.  She finally got to the point where she was willing to do that.  The first night he cried for an hour and a half straight.  The next night it was about 45 minutes.  The third night perhaps 15 minutes.  By the fourth night he went right to sleep.  I don't remember the exact age that this took place, but probably between a year and a year and a half.  Tough love will work, but you have to be firm.  No wavering on the part of any caregiver.
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#9 PixlPutterman

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 08:54 AM

Im curious about the mandatory 7 day work week :)

Are you and her mother together or separated? If separated, how is you and the mothers relationship?
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#10 airjammer

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 10:36 AM

I work in manufacturing...my position works every weekend and holiday. Technically we aren’t scheduled to work everyday but in reality we are. You can use vacation days to take off if wanted or needed. Been doing it for 10 years now and it allows me to be debt free.  I work 6am to 2pm so its a great shift imo.

We together.


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#11 PixlPutterman

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 01:31 PM

View Postairjammer, on 02 October 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I work in manufacturing...my position works every weekend and holiday. Technically we aren't scheduled to work everyday but in reality we are. You can use vacation days to take off if wanted or needed. Been doing it for 10 years now and it allows me to be debt free.  I work 6am to 2pm so its a great shift imo.

We together.

Thank you, just wanted to clarify since you never mentioned "my wife".

Have you though about play therapy with a license child therapist?
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#12 raynorfan1

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 06:09 PM

View Postairjammer, on 30 September 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

Anyone had a child like this

Conservative estimate, 75% of people who had a child had one like this.

More to follow via PM.

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#13 Lagavulin62

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 06:40 PM

Your child’s only problem is her mother. I think you needed to hear what is obvious to you and your friends. Be patient with your wife, pray for her. I do hope she comes around.

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#14 Petethreeput

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 07:43 PM

I will agree with the previous posters. Kids, even 2.5 year olds, know boundaries and will push them until they aren’t allowed to anymore. It sounds like expectations are set everywhere but in the home.

It’s easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and say “X” but many parents struggle establishing those boundaries. I wish you the best of luck, this sure sounds like it is putting you in a sticky situation.

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#15 airjammer

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:55 AM

Thanks for everyone’s replies, I appreciate the support. Hopefully this period will pass sooner than later.


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#16 highergr0und

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 12:14 PM

I would look to see a counselor.  At 2.5, your child is too young to really be seen, BUT the counselor should be able to work with both of you to modify behavior for the best outcomes.  The real key seems to be structuring interactions to stop the child from entering into the fit / breakdown.  I know there's this feeling that you're the parent and no should mean no and now should mean now, but sometimes it's just not the case.  If by some sheer will you eventually win, you have to realize that you won because you broke their spirit without actually addressing the core problem.  And when folks just want to blame the mother, you need to realize that it's creating an unhealthy family dynamic if you do so.  You need to work together.

My wife and I have been seeing a child counselor for our 4 yo who breaks down into massive fits during transitions (ie stop playing and go get ready for bed) and when he gets frustrated.  In just a few weeks, we've seen a massive decrease in the fits since we have structured our communication to limit his high stress responses.  We're by no means giving into him, just taking a different approach so he sees it differently.  A good example is that rather than say "Time to stop playing and go get ready for bed" which spins up an emotional response we say "hey buddy, would you like to go get ready for bed or have a few extra minutes of playing?", to which he always picks extra time.  We just tell him 5 minutes earlier, then when time is up, he's gotten his win and we get ours and there is no fit.  I will add that my wife often had a negative reaction to the fits, and I did too but I internalized it better.  She has done a 180 and we're both on the same page now.  We understand that, like it or not, there's something in his personality that triggers that reaction that causes him pain.  It's not like it's fun for him either.

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#17 raynorfan1

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 12:31 PM

Another point that I would make, that's not clear from the OP, is what the behavior looks like with the mother alone vs. with the mother and other people (especially dad).

Little kids are incredibly perceptive to emotional dynamics. They know that if they're alone with mom, the meltdown doesn't help, because she won't give in. If they're in front of dad, they perceive that mom wants them to be an angel in front of dad (because it demonstrates what a good job mom is doing all day), so they suddenly feel a huge amount of leverage. If they melt down in front of mom and dad, mom gives in quickly because she doesn't want dad to see the behavior problem. Dad then concludes that mom's a pushover...

These little animals have no EQ or social ability at this point; they're experimenting with the boundaries all the time and doubling down on the behavior that gets the outcome they're looking for. Every kid is different and you've got to experiment back to see what works to mitigate their behavior.

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#18 golfandfishing

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:30 PM

^^^^^^^^^^

This guy is smart.

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#19 airjammer

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 03:39 PM

View Posthighergr0und, on 03 October 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

I would look to see a counselor.  At 2.5, your child is too young to really be seen, BUT the counselor should be able to work with both of you to modify behavior for the best outcomes.  The real key seems to be structuring interactions to stop the child from entering into the fit / breakdown.  I know there's this feeling that you're the parent and no should mean no and now should mean now, but sometimes it's just not the case.  If by some sheer will you eventually win, you have to realize that you won because you broke their spirit without actually addressing the core problem.  And when folks just want to blame the mother, you need to realize that it's creating an unhealthy family dynamic if you do so.  You need to work together.

My wife and I have been seeing a child counselor for our 4 yo who breaks down into massive fits during transitions (ie stop playing and go get ready for bed) and when he gets frustrated.  In just a few weeks, we've seen a massive decrease in the fits since we have structured our communication to limit his high stress responses.  We're by no means giving into him, just taking a different approach so he sees it differently.  A good example is that rather than say "Time to stop playing and go get ready for bed" which spins up an emotional response we say "hey buddy, would you like to go get ready for bed or have a few extra minutes of playing?", to which he always picks extra time.  We just tell him 5 minutes earlier, then when time is up, he's gotten his win and we get ours and there is no fit.  I will add that my wife often had a negative reaction to the fits, and I did too but I internalized it better.  She has done a 180 and we're both on the same page now.  We understand that, like it or not, there's something in his personality that triggers that reaction that causes him pain.  It's not like it's fun for him either.

Great post,we are considering seeing a behavioral specialist whenever possible. I’m happy it’s helping you all.

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#20 airjammer

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 04:21 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 03 October 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Another point that I would make, that's not clear from the OP, is what the behavior looks like with the mother alone vs. with the mother and other people (especially dad).

Little kids are incredibly perceptive to emotional dynamics. They know that if they're alone with mom, the meltdown doesn't help, because she won't give in. If they're in front of dad, they perceive that mom wants them to be an angel in front of dad (because it demonstrates what a good job mom is doing all day), so they suddenly feel a huge amount of leverage. If they melt down in front of mom and dad, mom gives in quickly because she doesn't want dad to see the behavior problem. Dad then concludes that mom's a pushover...

These little animals have no EQ or social ability at this point; they're experimenting with the boundaries all the time and doubling down on the behavior that gets the outcome they're looking for. Every kid is different and you've got to experiment back to see what works to mitigate their behavior.

In this particular cases she is a push over. She’s Ukrainian and she/mother believes they shouldn’t have bad emotions. They want her to be happy all the time. Obviously any rational person would see how this is impossible.

This would be a example...my daughter likes to play in mud/dirt whatever. Her mother will take her to the park with friends. My daughter at some point will find a mud hole and start playing. All the other kids join in and all mothers are pissed. Later that day I will come home to extreme complaining how my daughter is a “redneck” and how she is tired of scrubbing white socks clean. Later that same day we will go to another park but I will be accompaning them. My daughter while start to go to a mud hole and I will stop her and says “Katrina lets go slide and swing instead”. Of course she starts to cry..her mother is like “maybe it will be ok if she plays in the mud”. I pick my daughter up and we go back to sliding or whatever. Absolutely insane in my mind.

Her mother can leave and go do whatever she wants as soon as I get home everyday. There are no restrictions about that. I have no issues spending time with my daughter. Yet, she wants to stay home with us and says she misses us when she is gone. Obviously in my mind if I am as miserable as she claims I would run out of the house.

I’m the disciplinarian and generally will not let my daughter do anything that I don’t want to continue in the future.

I appreciate the support guys.



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#21 PixlPutterman

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:55 PM

This is a family counseling thing to me.

I think your daughter see the differences between dad letting her dig in the mud and mom not. Maybe she senses resentment from Mom due to the more uptight expectations of behavior.

It's hard on kids to feel like they have to live in different worlds with different rules.

My wife and I are different parents but we both make sure we have enough overlap to give the kids consistent enough environments to roam around in.

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#22 highergr0und

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 07:56 PM

Yeah, you guys need a counselor who will get you on the same page.

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#23 airjammer

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:29 AM

Yes I would agree

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#24 PixlPutterman

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 08:36 AM

Also, I think its wonderful that you are open and sharing this. I think everyone can learn from everyone.
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#25 Tcann32

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:45 AM

My daughter isn’t hells spawn, but she certainly butts heads with her mother more than she does with me. It’s interesting to me, but I’m told that’s the way it is in their younger years (she’s 4, but it’s always been this way).

Mom gets the biggest highs and lows out of her. She will turn to mom for nurturing when it’s needed before she turns to me, but she will also fight her more and give her more attitude.

Has your wife been stern with her? I mean, in a strong way w/out emotion or “fear”? Kids can sense smell blood in parents emotions, I’m convinced of it, and while ours doesn’t throw tantrums, she has her difficult days, and all I have to do is get a little lower and a little louder and she just gets jarred and stops what she’s doing, but it’s not as easy for mom. Lol

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