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Golf is Not a Team Sport


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#61 Halebopp

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 01:49 AM

View PostNaptime, on 30 September 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

It the stymie were still in effect, fourballs would make an interesting team sport since the player lying 5 on the hole could stymie the opponent who is putting for 3, and thereby keep his partner who is putting for 4 in the hole.

I don't know how you've played golf but Stymie was only used in two-ball match play.

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#62 Lancj1

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 03:19 AM

Going to support this. The Ryder cup to me has become very stale now. It’s peak was way past and it’s been ruined by the commercialism and hype. I cringe at the ole, ole, hate the booing and think the USA USA chant should be reserved for returning war veterans. I watched, but only the recorded highlights. I’m probably the only one who thinks this though. Hey ho !
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#63 Jacked_Loft

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 03:55 AM

If the players were given designated roles on the course it would be more of a team sport in the classical sense.

Try these ideas on for size:

Form 1) One guy would drive, another hits second shots while another is responsible for shots around the green. The fourth must putt.
Form 2) The caddy carries 6 clubs, and each has a designated player.

Each player would experience the individual pressure like a punter, pitcher outfielder or running back does.

This is maybe a future way that team golf will be played.
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#64 Kaiser00

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 03:55 AM

Perhaps the Euros see the Ryder cup as a great leveller. The US players have an advantage in the majors as 3/4 are held in the US. Perhaps add another major overseas in Austrailia/ South Africa.

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#65 Dave230

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 04:01 AM

It's predominantly not a team sport. Sometimes it is, and that's welcomed.

Give me the Ryder Cup over any non-major tournament. Fed Ex Cup playoffs are nothing on the tournament. The players play for pride not making the rich get richer, which is much easier to relate to.


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#66 bazinoz

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 05:51 AM

Europe see it as a team sport and it's probably why they have a great record the last couple of decades.
I personally thought it was the most riveting tournament seen this year. It's possibly only in the US that people don't rate it as high and that's probably because they keep losing.

The USA team really seemed like 12 individuals this time around. I thought the youngsters showed heart (Thomas, Speith, Fowler, even Reed stood up in the singles). And it augurs well for the next couple of Ryder Cups. USA will be hard to beat in the coming years.

Whereas for 3 days it looked like the "seasoned" players would sooner be on holiday. Especially Phil and Tiger, but also DJ (even though younger) were way off the pace. Tiger actually looked half the player and twice the age of last weeks Tiger.

And despite what the US media would have us think, today's players are not in awe of him. He may have won last week but it seemed the world media thought he was a walk up start to get 4pts.
He has done brilliantly to get back to being really competitive. But he won't be dominating today's players like he did early 2000's.



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Edited by bazinoz, 01 October 2018 - 05:51 AM.


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#67 silliwilli

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 05:57 AM

Love how the Yanks suddenly don't care for the Ryder Cup after they've taken a serious thumping. Hilarious and predictable in equal measures.

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#68 Hateto3Putt

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 05:59 AM



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#69 herdman

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 06:26 AM

View Postsilliwilli, on 01 October 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Love how the Yanks suddenly don't care for the Ryder Cup after they've taken a serious thumping. Hilarious and predictable in equal measures.

I think we care, but just in a different way. I don't think anyone of them want to lose and as far as fans go, we base players(Tiger, Phil, etc.) on tournament wins and major wins not really how they were in the Ryder Cup. In other words, a green jacket is more important than the Ryder Cup.

The European team certainly does a better job at picking a team or finding motivation or a spark or whatever it takes. They certainly deserve credit for whipping the US team.

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#70 buckeyefl

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 06:53 AM

View Postcaniac6, on 30 September 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

If you are on a team, it's a team sport.

Nope


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#71 Lagavulin62

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 07:11 AM

View PostFischputza, on 01 October 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

View PostCrazy About Golf, on 30 September 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

Pretty broad generalization, don't you think??

Could be, but it's not really a mystery. You want hard data and until you get it you feel justified with continuing the same ole American failure every two years. Yet you pretend it's important and Americans should climb aboard and show their pride, for the good of country.... Get a grip. This is nothing but the same ole high society bs and it will never be any different than that stupid America's Cup Sail Racing.

Thank God I've met many Texans in my life who were not that simple minded



Why criticize with no solutions? Not a political debate. We are looking for real causes and possible solutions. I haven’t insulted anyone. Just made some observations based on 46 years of playing and watching as a fan. So give it a shot. What do you believe is the problem and how can we generate a love for the RC and win consistently? I don’t see too many that want to discuss that.

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#72 naval2006

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 07:22 AM

Individual sports become team sports by joining athletes to collect individual points for a team.  The moment you line up in your team you're no longer alone.  Take the Ryder Cup or the Davis Cup.  At my club we usually play team competitions mostly away and we feel like a team, we talk about the layout for the day, we organize teams based on handicap and how each of us has been playing lately and we often run into somebody from the team an we all talk about how things are going; when you finish you wait for the rest of your team to hole out on 18 or if somebody is hot you go and follow them till the end.    

There's always guys who play for themselves so in the end they stop taking part in team competitions.  We have great memories of our team events, the good ones and the beatdowns too.  I strongly believe golf can be a team sport.

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#73 MarkAJones

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:21 AM

Scanning through this thread there's some reasonable points but also a lot of tripe too.

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

Pretty sure that the RC means a lot to those 12 guys and Furyk - they wouldn't have enjoyed getting their ar$es bared like that. They weren't just beaten, they were hammered.

Although for the majority of the time golf is an individuals sport, the RC is a team event. Get over it. It's just that in recent times the Europeans are more adept playing this format. Prior to the mid 80s the US team won it virtually every time.

Times have changed though and although the US do their best to make golf another American sport (most of the Majors and the richest Tour) it is not. Someone posted somewhere about having Majors in other countries and that's something I'd endorse. Keep the US and British Open (too much history to change those) keep the Masters too (even if its not a true Open - its too big and has a history now) but trash the USPGA and add a Major in another continent, Australasia / Far East would be my pick. I wouldn't even object if more Majors were added so that at least one could be played in each continent. It's not right that one country has 3/4s of the major events for what is a global sport and whilst the best players obviously play on the richest tour, that doesn't mean that the US owns the game.

There's already a rich crop of players coming through from the Far East where the game is massive and arguably that's where the future lies. Wait til the Chinese properly get their hands on it - the best players won't be American for long. Will you all stop watching when your boys aren't racking up the majors on your backyard courses?
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#74 Rosco1216

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:30 AM

It was all around bad team management and even worse course management.

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#75 puttingmatt

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:35 AM

Better assemble. Another task force, LOL's

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#76 heavy_hitter

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:39 AM

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

You are obviously not a golfer.

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#77 Konklifer

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:47 AM

View PostMarkAJones, on 01 October 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Scanning through this thread there's some reasonable points but also a lot of tripe too.

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

Pretty sure that the RC means a lot to those 12 guys and Furyk - they wouldn't have enjoyed getting their ar$es bared like that. They weren't just beaten, they were hammered.

Although for the majority of the time golf is an individuals sport, the RC is a team event. Get over it. It's just that in recent times the Europeans are more adept playing this format. Prior to the mid 80s the US team won it virtually every time.

Times have changed though and although the US do their best to make golf another American sport (most of the Majors and the richest Tour) it is not. Someone posted somewhere about having Majors in other countries and that's something I'd endorse. Keep the US and British Open (too much history to change those) keep the Masters too (even if its not a true Open - its too big and has a history now) but trash the USPGA and add a Major in another continent, Australasia / Far East would be my pick. I wouldn't even object if more Majors were added so that at least one could be played in each continent. It's not right that one country has 3/4s of the major events for what is a global sport and whilst the best players obviously play on the richest tour, that doesn't mean that the US owns the game.

There's already a rich crop of players coming through from the Far East where the game is massive and arguably that's where the future lies. Wait til the Chinese properly get their hands on it - the best players won't be American for long. Will you all stop watching when your boys aren't racking up the majors on your backyard courses?

Just as there would be negativity if the Euros lost. Winners get to drive the conversation, and that's fine. They've earned the right.

I'd welcome another major outside of the US, but it likely would not change the majority outcome. The Open Championship has been dominated by Americans for the last hundred years, so they can obviously play over there. European countries are a distant second. Despite this past weekend, American golf is as young and as strong as ever.
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#78 new2g0lf

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

I disagree, golf is a team sport up to the point guys turn professional.  Kids participating in golf whether it be PGA Youth, high school or college are part of a team.  Their performance is individual but the approach is as a team.  The coach decides who plays who and when, because it's best for the team.  

What happened this weekend was a result of poor coaching, the individual needs were placed ahead of the team.  Spieth should have been paired with Reed, Phil should have sat til Sunday, Webb should have played more and Bubba should have played less (especially if he was sick).
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#79 Lagavulin62

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:52 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 01 October 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

You are obviously not a golfer.


Quite a few in this thread don’t buy the team aspect or care that the US lost. Wonder why?

But look, personally I don’t care. They make money and thats really all that matters, to them. It will continue on every two years and those that care will care, those that don’t won’t. The US will continue to lose. That doesn’t matter either.

If one is not willing to change, they should be happy with who they are.

Edited by Lagavulin62, 01 October 2018 - 08:54 AM.


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#80 Dave230

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:59 AM

View PostMarkAJones, on 01 October 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

People are finally beginning to realise how big home advantage is at the Ryder Cup. The only away Cup won in the last 12 years was Medinah, which was just one crazy day out of the blue, US team were 10-6 ahead in the team games.

Anyone who expected the US team to win easily was delusional (looking at you Shipnuck). The home advantage is worth 2-3 points minimum. So I think the US team needed to be much better than the Europeans to get the win, and if they did, it was always going to be by a very small margin, a point or less. US team was let down badly by 3-4 players who just played some terrible stuff all week.

If US had won by half a point, it would have been the greatest US performance of the past 25 years I think.


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#81 Nixhex524

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 10:11 AM

View Postsilliwilli, on 01 October 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Love how the Yanks suddenly don't care for the Ryder Cup after they've taken a serious thumping. Hilarious and predictable in equal measures.

I definitely cared, or was interested, but being on the west coast by the time I turn it on in the A.M. it's over.  Forget recording it.... I can't compete with my 3 year olds reruns of Dora The Explorer.  It was tougher to get into when the heat of battle is going on why I'm trying to catch up on years of missed sleep.... I saw enough to know we sucked, though...LOL

I'll be honest and go back to an earlier thread before the RC, I would have rather have had Keegan than Phil, and anyone other than BAD.  I did enjoy him almost falling down the hill at the end of his match with Noren though.... :)
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#82 MarkAJones

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 10:26 AM

I'm not disputing the strength of US golf - 9 major winners and pretty much all inside the worlds top 20 in that team.....

So I'd say the US were big favourites, man for man.

Whilst not disputing the benefits homefield advantage, I gather that the US weren't fantastically prepared. Very little course time and didn't bother practicing when the weather started blowing? Given how the US dominated the first session, I'd say it was Europe who pulled off the major effort.

I don't know who (or what a) Shipnuck is.
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#83 heavy_hitter

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:13 AM

View PostLagavulin62, on 01 October 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 01 October 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

You are obviously not a golfer.


Quite a few in this thread don't buy the team aspect or care that the US lost. Wonder why?

But look, personally I don't care. They make money and thats really all that matters, to them. It will continue on every two years and those that care will care, those that don't won't. The US will continue to lose. That doesn't matter either.

If one is not willing to change, they should be happy with who they are.

Being part of team is sacrificing for the better good of the team.  Means sacrificing your feelings, your emotions, even at some point how you normally go about the strategy of your own game.  It is about how the team plays.  High School and College golf is the same thing.  It is absolutely individual, but when keeping team scores there are things you have to sacrifice.

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#84 duffer987

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:38 AM

View PostLagavulin62, on 01 October 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 01 October 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.

You are obviously not a golfer.


Quite a few in this thread don't buy the team aspect or care that the US lost. Wonder why?

But look, personally I don't care. They make money and thats really all that matters, to them. It will continue on every two years and those that care will care, those that don't won't. The US will continue to lose. That doesn't matter either.

If one is not willing to change, they should be happy with who they are.
Yikes! Golfers don't understand how match play works? I don't know anyone who golfs that doesn't know how match play works. Heck I don't think anyone who spent 10mins watching couldn't figure out winning/losing/tying holes is how a match progresses.

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#85 Naptime

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:50 AM

Geez Louise guys.  Not sour grapes at all.  I like it when the Olympic events are won by competitors from little countries that most of us couldn't place on a map.  I don't care if the home team wins the RC every time until forever.  The sole point I was trying to make is that all the whining about team this and team that and why can't the US "team" succeed is poorly aligned to the way professional golf is usually played, which is clearly not as a "team" event.


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#86 gvogel

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:52 AM

View PostLancj1, on 01 October 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

Going to support this. The Ryder cup to me has become very stale now. It’s peak was way past and it’s been ruined by the commercialism and hype. I cringe at the ole, ole, hate the booing and think the USA USA chant should be reserved for returning war veterans. I watched, but only the recorded highlights. I’m probably the only one who thinks this though. Hey ho !

You are not the only one.  I wish they would go back to playing captains, no alternate captains, no fancy dinner beforehand - keep it a nice exhibition.
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#87 new2g0lf

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:54 AM

When the Ryder Cup first started it was really a battle of the PGA Tour vs the Euro Tour.  Many believe that 30+ years ago the PGA Tour was far advanced in terms of competition, golf courses and of course money and that is a significant reason why the US team dominated.  If you look at Ryder Cup today all but 1 Euro member plays on the PGA Tour, they compete weekly against the best Americans on the best American courses, have access to the best facilities, housing, etc.

The Euros are as tough as they are because they now benefit from everything the US guys have access to plus they have all that experience playing on the Euro courses.  Any advantage our teams had 30 years ago have been eliminated and now it's truly just a test of who wants it more.
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#88 Naptime

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 11:55 AM

On a different note, post Brexit will the UK players still be playing under the EU flag?  Or do we go back to the previous RC paradigm.  Then we'll have 3 competitions, US v UK, US v EU, and the President's Cup. :golfer:

Edited by Naptime, 01 October 2018 - 11:57 AM.


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#89 Lennon Mccartney

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:02 PM

View PostLagavulin62, on 30 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Team sport or not the main reasons Americans don't care about the Ryder Cup is:

1. As kids growing up they probably never heard of it.
2. Nobody really wants to watch golf in late September, especially if it's happening on the other side of the planet.
3. And probably the biggest problem, even among golfers, nobody understands the scoring and whats at stake. And the media doesn't seem to care to create easy to folllow scoring charts.
Agreed...the American's simply do not care...that is not a brag or an excuse...that is just a fact....Take a look at the body language on Dustin, Brooks, Tiger, Phil and Bubba...they don't care...i am no fan of Bubba...but the guy is etched in history with two Green Jackets...Brooks has more majors in two years than Sergio, Stenson, Westwood, Ian Poulter, Luke Donald, Colin Montgomerie, Sam Torrance, Thomas Bjorn, Paul Mcginley combined...enough with the non sense...we get it...

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#90 gvogel

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:04 PM

View PostKonklifer, on 01 October 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View PostMarkAJones, on 01 October 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Scanning through this thread there's some reasonable points but also a lot of tripe too.

I guarantee though there would be none of the negativity had the US team won. They were big favourites and blew up big style. Phil, Bryson and Tiger - not a point between them. There are some class acts on the US team though. I like Rickie Fowler more every time I hear or read something about him. JT and Speith also went up in my estimation (I'm not ordinarily a Speith fan - he's good but a bit of a fairy when things don't go his way).

Pretty sure that the RC means a lot to those 12 guys and Furyk - they wouldn't have enjoyed getting their ar$es bared like that. They weren't just beaten, they were hammered.

Although for the majority of the time golf is an individuals sport, the RC is a team event. Get over it. It's just that in recent times the Europeans are more adept playing this format. Prior to the mid 80s the US team won it virtually every time.

Times have changed though and although the US do their best to make golf another American sport (most of the Majors and the richest Tour) it is not. Someone posted somewhere about having Majors in other countries and that's something I'd endorse. Keep the US and British Open (too much history to change those) keep the Masters too (even if its not a true Open - its too big and has a history now) but trash the USPGA and add a Major in another continent, Australasia / Far East would be my pick. I wouldn't even object if more Majors were added so that at least one could be played in each continent. It's not right that one country has 3/4s of the major events for what is a global sport and whilst the best players obviously play on the richest tour, that doesn't mean that the US owns the game.

There's already a rich crop of players coming through from the Far East where the game is massive and arguably that's where the future lies. Wait til the Chinese properly get their hands on it - the best players won't be American for long. Will you all stop watching when your boys aren't racking up the majors on your backyard courses?

Just as there would be negativity if the Euros lost. Winners get to drive the conversation, and that's fine. They've earned the right.

I'd welcome another major outside of the US, but it likely would not change the majority outcome. The Open Championship has been dominated by Americans for the last hundred 58 years, so they can obviously play over there. European countries are a distant second. Despite this past weekend, American golf is as young and as strong as ever.

Fixed it for you.  The Open Championship might have been dominated by Americans in the 1920's (thank you Bobby Jones, Walter Hagen), but it was dominated by Peter Thompson in the 1950s and Henry Cotton and others before that.  By the way, since Tom Watson won in 1984, non-Americans have won 19 out of the next 34 played.  Hardly domination by Americans.

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