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Help me understand why kids walk off putts


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#61 hangontight

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 06:24 AM

View Postisaacbm, on 19 September 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

I donít come in here much but Iím just curious.... Are you telling me that six and seven-year-olds are walking off putts  by counting how many steps they are from their ball to the hole?

WTF???!!!

Absoluteltly terrible idea. Kids need to learn to develope an ATHLETIC  sense of feel not an ANALYTICAL sense of feel.
Spend hours on the putting  green playing games with them. Their sub conscious will take care of the rest.

Counting steps?  Wow

I kind of agree, and am a total feel player myself inside of , say, 75 yards.   But tell that to Bryson DeChambeau.  To each is own, just whatever you do -do it quickly.

Edited by hangontight, 20 September 2018 - 06:26 AM.


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#62 cwglum

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 06:39 AM

Putting the most precise part of the game with the smallest target.  We spend hundreds of $$$ on gadgets to know we're 77yds instead of ball parking it at 80-85yds, so why only give it the eyeball test when you're standing over a putt?  2 steps different is 6-feet, if you miss do you want a tap in or a 6-footer?

I putt from 2 set distances on the practice green to figure out how fast the greens are rolling.  On the course, I'll walk off the steps as near to intended line as I can without stepping in other's line, also helps to get a feel for how much slope there is involved.   It takes no extra time at all, get everything done right after marking my ball and while others are working their way on to the green.  90+% of my GIR are lag to make, speed is the most important thing to me when putting well.

Edited by cwglum, 20 September 2018 - 08:18 AM.


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#63 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM

SMH - So Much Hate

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#64 leezer99

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

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#65 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 08:19 AM

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

I would have thought lining up the ball on longer putts helps with alignment and allows a player to focus on speed

Are there any other things that junior golfers shouldn't be doing???


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#66 leezer99

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 09:37 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:


Are there any other things that junior golfers shouldn't be doing???

Assuming they have a choice on what it takes to be great.

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#67 heavy_hitter

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 09:47 AM

View Postkekoa, on 19 September 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 19 September 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 19 September 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 17 September 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

All of our local tours use the AJGA pace of play policy. First player finished with a hole goes to the next tee while the others finish out.  The Must, Must, May policy works.

Curious, how does that work when it comes to marking scores?
  • Realize your group is "on the clock" as soon as you play from the teeing ground on your first hole.
  • Play ready golf throughout your entire round.
  • MUST, MUST, MAY
    • MUST – The first player to finish playing a hole MUST immediately grab their bag and start making their way to the next tee. In doing this the player walking ahead is expected to be quiet and courteous to its fellow-competitors. The player should periodically look back to watch the other player’s shots.
    • MUST – The player MUST also be the first person to play from the next teeing ground. This player must be getting their yardage and determining club selection while the other players are finishing the previous hole and walking to the tee.
    • MAY – This player MAY tee off if they want to. All players must confirm scores on the previous hole prior to leaving the tee.
        
  • When spotters, officials or parents are available to help search for a potentially lost ball, the AJGA recommends that the other players go forward to play his next shot or shots and HOLD THE GROUP'S POSITION ON THE GOLF COURSE.
  • WALK WITH A PURPOSE between shots!

In that case its ready golf correct? They dont give honors?  Some kids want the tee first if they have honors.  Maybe a mental thing, but to some it really matters.

As kids get older they rarely play honors.  I know in my kids case he doesn’t care what his partners had on the previous hole.  He is playing ready golf.  If you aren’t ready he is hopping on the tee box and playing without asking.  If you are slow and he outdrives you,  he still walks forward and will play if you aren’t ready.  He usually does a really good job at make others play at his pace.  AJGA will have a time limit for a round, usually between 4:10 and 4:30.  If you don’t finish in their time limit you are getting strokes.  There are no if’s and’s ot but’s.  Play fast or get penalized.

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#68 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 10:08 AM

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Are there any other things that junior golfers shouldn't be doing???

Assuming they have a choice on what it takes to be great.

Junior Golfer internet police

Who knew there was only one way to succeed!!!

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#69 BertGA

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 10:23 AM

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

For me, Iíve gone to using the line on my ball for practically every putt outside of 4 feet. It allows me to get the line right before I set up, that way Iím ONLY thinking about distance when I stand over the putt.

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#70 BiggErn

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 10:35 AM

I had a guy I play with do this and he said tour guys had to know how far they hit each putt. I told him that he was ridiculous and you can’t gauge any putt the same. You have so many factors with uphill/downhill slope, break, and green speed it’s impossible to treat every 20 footer the same. He’s already slow as Christmas on top of it.


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#71 isaacbm

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:00 AM

So let’s say  You pace off 10 steps.

Is it up hill , downhill, sidehill?
Is it into the grain? Down grain?  
Is the green wet? Dry?  
Are the greens running eight? 10? 12?

How on earth can you know how hard to hit it just based on  “30 feet”?
An uphill put into the grain  might be running five and a downhill putt down grain  might be running 18!
If you exert the same amount of force to each condition, two balls  are literally  going to end up 20 feet apart!

And as far as the idea of not stepping on somebody’s line goes, you don’t know where their  line is going to be
because they haven’t putted  yet.  Their 30 footer might be pulled  or hit too hard and they end up right where you walked.
That’s why it’s important to always be aware of  “Thru-lines”.

A good rule  when reading putts on longer putts is generally stay out of a 10 foot Circle from the hole  as much as possible .

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#72 leezer99

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:16 AM

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

For me, I've gone to using the line on my ball for practically every putt outside of 4 feet. It allows me to get the line right before I set up, that way I'm ONLY thinking about distance when I stand over the putt.

I think you should reconsider your philosophy but that's just me.  I don't believe it's possible to look down at a ball with a line on it that is intended to align putter face and give you the intended start line and not think about it, even if it's subconsciously.

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#73 wlm

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:26 AM

There is nothing wrong with walking off putt distances, as long as its not unreasonably slow.  It does a few things, it helps the player feel the slope of the green.  It puts them by the hole so they can look from the other side.  It slows them down just enough to evaluate all of the factors to consider.  My son did it when he was young.  He was a very fast player, and would have been inclined to walk up and hit his putt immediately.  He was never slow, even when he walked them off.  And he was and still is a good putter (although he doesn't walk off any more).

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#74 MikekiM

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:35 AM

I hope people can understand that there is some merit it walking a lengthy putt, particularly for juniors.   In particular short junior golfers, like my son, have a different viewing angle of the green compared to taller kids.  From 25+ feet he can barely see the hole itself.  So longer putts are physically harder to gauge distance on.  I always encourage him on putts longer than 10' to at least walk the putt (not necessarily measure it in feet), but walk closer to the hole to have a better look at the overall length of the putt from closer, and at a better angle.  When we walk the putt it accomplishes a couple things.  You can feel the slope of the green with your feet and body.  You can inspect the line for any damages that can be repaired.  And for shorter juniors you can visually get a better angle at determining the length of the putt.  We never walk the putt simply for a distance in feet, but more in an effort to gain as much information on the putt as possible to have a better chance of making it.  Including distance, slope, and speed.

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#75 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:39 AM

View Postisaacbm, on 20 September 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

So let’s say  You pace off 10 steps.

Is it up hill , downhill, sidehill?
Is it into the grain? Down grain?  
Is the green wet? Dry?  
Are the greens running eight? 10? 12?

How on earth can you know how hard to hit it just based on  “30 feet”?
An uphill put into the grain  might be running five and a downhill putt down grain  might be running 18!
If you exert the same amount of force to each condition, two balls  are literally  going to end up 20 feet apart!

And as far as the idea of not stepping on somebody’s line goes, you don’t know where their  line is going to be
because they haven’t putted  yet.  Their 30 footer might be pulled  or hit too hard and they end up right where you walked.
That’s why it’s important to always be aware of  “Thru-lines”.

A good rule  when reading putts on longer putts is generally stay out of a 10 foot Circle from the hole  as much as possible .

I don't think anyone is asserting the above factors are not considered when pacing out putts.

And I don't think anyone is recommending to use the exact same force in striking a putt of a given length, irrespective of those factors you mention.

But why is the (almost) exact distance to the hole not as relevant a factor as the ones you list?


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#76 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:41 AM

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

For me, I've gone to using the line on my ball for practically every putt outside of 4 feet. It allows me to get the line right before I set up, that way I'm ONLY thinking about distance when I stand over the putt.

I think you should reconsider your philosophy but that's just me.  I don't believe it's possible to look down at a ball with a line on it that is intended to align putter face and give you the intended start line and not think about it, even if it's subconsciously.

How do you reconcile this belief with the fact that a very significant % of Tour Pros (including some of the best in the world) have lines on their ball and use them to line up putts (and not just short ones)?

16

#77 isaacbm

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:51 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

View Postisaacbm, on 20 September 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

So let’s say  You pace off 10 steps.

Is it up hill , downhill, sidehill?
Is it into the grain? Down grain?  
Is the green wet? Dry?  
Are the greens running eight? 10? 12?

How on earth can you know how hard to hit it just based on  “30 feet”?
An uphill put into the grain  might be running five and a downhill putt down grain  might be running 18!
If you exert the same amount of force to each condition, two balls  are literally  going to end up 20 feet apart!

And as far as the idea of not stepping on somebody’s line goes, you don’t know where their  line is going to be
because they haven’t putted  yet.  Their 30 footer might be pulled  or hit too hard and they end up right where you walked.
That’s why it’s important to always be aware of  “Thru-lines”.

A good rule  when reading putts on longer putts is generally stay out of a 10 foot Circle from the hole  as much as possible .

I don't think anyone is asserting the above factors are not considered when pacing out putts.

And I don't think anyone is recommending to use the exact same force in striking a putt of a given length, irrespective of those factors you mention.

But why is the (almost) exact distance to the hole not as relevant a factor as the ones you list?

I guess I misunderstood then. I thought that was exactly what was being implied... That knowing that a putt is 30 feet means you can exert a specific amount of predetermined power to move the ball 30 feet.  I suppose knowing the exact distance can help you at a subconscious level.   I just think it’s really important to understand any training you do mentally or consciously with putting is all about training your subconscious in the long term.  All of the information that is being gathered while reading/walking a putt  is really only for the purpose of allowing your subconscious to develop more feel .  No great putters putt using math.

putting, more than any other part of the game,  is an athletic motion.  You have to let your subconscious use all the information it has gathered to transfer into some sort of hand-eye action. See it hit it.

I get that for seven-year-olds this process is ongoing but it’s important to understand that the endgame is instinctive reaction to a set of conditions, not a “formula”.

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#78 heavy_hitter

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 20 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 20 September 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

SMH - So Much Hate

Don't get me started on kids that use the line on their ball from 40 feet.  Inside 10' I'm cool with but at those distances it 100% needs to be about speed.  The line just causes you to be 'ball bound' instead of focused on your distance.

For me, I've gone to using the line on my ball for practically every putt outside of 4 feet. It allows me to get the line right before I set up, that way I'm ONLY thinking about distance when I stand over the putt.

I think you should reconsider your philosophy but that's just me.  I don't believe it's possible to look down at a ball with a line on it that is intended to align putter face and give you the intended start line and not think about it, even if it's subconsciously.

How do you reconcile this belief with the fact that a very significant % of Tour Pros (including some of the best in the world) have lines on their ball and use them to line up putts (and not just short ones)?

The tour pros don’t have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesn’t wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6”-10” off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

18

#79 CTgolf

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 01:36 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:


The tour pros don’t have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesn’t wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6”-10” off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

I think they are using lines (either drawn or just the logo) to line up their balls

http://www.golfwrx.c...-line-up-putts/

19

#80 BertGA

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 01:43 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:


The tour pros donít have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesnít wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6Ē-10Ē off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

By the time the ball wobbles, itís too late to do anything about it. Not sure how that is helping them, other than to know to correct it on the next putt.

At their level, I would have to think they know how well they hit it based on contact. But maybe Iím wrong.


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#81 The General

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:21 PM

View Postkekoa, on 18 September 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 September 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View Postbenlenahan, on 18 September 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

I don’t see this much at the high school level. I don’t know why, I would assume that as your skill progresses you become more confident with your game and your ability to read a feel the green, so a simple two-way read will suffice. It’s jsut down to personal preference in the end, alright I’d prefer if people don’t. Played jsut the other day with a kid who did it, neared a six hour round because of his slow pace. Brutal.

No offense, but high school level golf is not a high level.

I dont think he was inferring that high school is high level golf. I assume its just what he has direct experience with.  D1 College golfers nor pga players walk off putts. Hows that? ��

Agreed. They use their brain to tell them the distance and they learn this by practice putting, not slow playing golfers by walking off every putt. Instead of walking off a putt, use that time to practice the stroke trying to get the feel for what it take to make the good putt.

21

#82 kekoa

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:29 PM

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

The tour pros don't have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesn't wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6"-10" off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

By the time the ball wobbles, it's too late to do anything about it. Not sure how that is helping them, other than to know to correct it on the next putt.

At their level, I would have to think they know how well they hit it based on contact. But maybe I'm wrong.

C'mon HH.  There is no way in hell tour pro's have the line on the ball to check the wobble factor.  Ok, maybe Bryson Dechambeau does, but he's a nutcase.

I could just see a pro being pissed that he made a putt but the line was wobbling.  :stop:

22

#83 Ganderson906

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 03:57 AM

In my opinion golf is first and foremost a gentleman’s game.. meaning that etiquette should be one of the first things instilled in a young players mind, unfortunately this has been fading away through the generations far as I can see. I say gentleman’s game loosely because I don’t believe in the super old fashioned ways of the uptight club with strict dress codes and whatnot but there are parts of that school of thought that make sense to me, especially on the field of play and in competition. Stepping in someone’s line in inexcusable. If someone wants to walk off thier putt that’s fine but it should never take precedence over respect for your fellow competitors. The first thing I was taught by my first mentor in golf who was a WW2 generation fella was that we are sharing the course with everyone else on it and need to be mindful of that at all times and although people say they know this they seem to disregard it quite regularly, I guess it’s a sign of the times. I get a real kick out of these players that take forever and a day to putt and then make the most lousy stroke you’ve ever seen... it’s absurd.

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#84 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 05:22 AM

My opinion is that someone walking through a line is just a matter of respect.  It doesn’t really do anything to the line by stepping on it.  If you play at 10, several dozen people have already stepped in your line.

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#85 PixlPutterman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:23 AM

My kids walk off putts (they dont play organized golf, just messing around with dad) because its easier for me to teach them how to read break if they can feel it (think kiddo aimpoint) and they also get a better sense of speed.

I walk off most every putt as well. Just the best way for me to read the putt

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#86 North Butte

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:30 AM

They do it because someone told them they need to. Ought to be considered child abuse.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#87 CTgolf

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

So what's the consensus: is walking off putts ok?  Are drawing lines bad?  How about wearing a glove - required?

Who knew such minor things could be so detrimental to the development of junior golfers.

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#88 dpb5031

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:28 AM

I'm revisiting this thread because Im pretty sure my previous comments were not clear, and perhaps some of us talking about two different things.

I think walking around to survey the green from multiple angles is highly beneficial.  It's especially good to look at a putt from the low side and to visualize the line and the apex, and to feel the slope in your legs and feet as you walk.

I dont however, think it's particularly beneficial to walk off a putt to count steps in an effort to measure distance and gauge the effort required to roll the ball to the hole.  Green speeds vary plus slope and gradient of greens will be different from hole to hole and course to course.  A 30 footer on one green can require an entirely different speed and therefore effort into the stroke than a 30 footer on another, so I dont see how the numbers are of any use.
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#89 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:40 AM

View Postkekoa, on 20 September 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

The tour pros don't have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesn't wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6"-10" off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

By the time the ball wobbles, it's too late to do anything about it. Not sure how that is helping them, other than to know to correct it on the next putt.

At their level, I would have to think they know how well they hit it based on contact. But maybe I'm wrong.

C'mon HH.  There is no way in hell tour pro's have the line on the ball to check the wobble factor.  Ok, maybe Bryson Dechambeau does, but he's a nutcase.

I could just see a pro being pissed that he made a putt but the line was wobbling.  :stop:

Haney was also talking about this on his radio show the other day.  Said the same exact thing.  I will adjust my original statement because I am sure many do use as an alignment aid as well.  It is going to depend if you are a line putter or a spot putter.  Still, many will glance to see if they putt a good stroke on the ball which the line helps in determining.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 21 September 2018 - 11:46 AM.


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#90 dpb5031

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:56 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 September 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 20 September 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 20 September 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 20 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

The tour pros don't have the line on the ball for alignment.  They may use it for that, but not why they have it.  They have the line on the ball to make sure it doesn't wobble.  The ball not being struck properly can cause pace problems.  A wobbling ball can take 6"-10" off of pace.

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

By the time the ball wobbles, it's too late to do anything about it. Not sure how that is helping them, other than to know to correct it on the next putt.

At their level, I would have to think they know how well they hit it based on contact. But maybe I'm wrong.

C'mon HH.  There is no way in hell tour pro's have the line on the ball to check the wobble factor.  Ok, maybe Bryson Dechambeau does, but he's a nutcase.

I could just see a pro being pissed that he made a putt but the line was wobbling.  :stop:

Haney was also talking about this on his radio show the other day.  Said the same exact thing.  I will adjust my original statement because I am sure many do use as an alignment aid as well.  It is going to depend if you are a line putter or a spot putter.  Still, many will glance to see if they putt a good stroke on the ball which the line helps in determining.

I like the line.  Once you're over the ball you can just visualizes a T-Square strike.  It helps you to build a consistent stance around the correct target line, and can also help to keep your eyes nice and quiet by giving you something specific to focus on.

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