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Question about hard stepping iron shafts


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#1 Billykav0817

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?


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#2 Howard Jones

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 09:25 AM

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?

S300 is the same shaft as S400, weight sorting gave them 2 different labels.
You can tip trim most tapers 3/8" with no insert problems, some even more, so for 9 and PW just tip trim.

Be aware of that weight goes UP when you hard step, so those S300 HS1 is close to S400 on wgt.

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#3 Billykav0817

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 09:39 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?

S300 is the same shaft as S400, weight sorting gave them 2 different labels.
You can tip trim most tapers 3/8" with no insert problems, some even more, so for 9 and PW just tip trim.

Be aware of that weight goes UP when you hard step, so those S300 HS1 is close to S400 on wgt.

According to that chart the FCM is the same for S300 hs and S400 so thats why I was thinking of doing that, but if I tip trim them it’s essentially like hard stepping correct?  But I didn’t know about weight increasing with hard stepping so now the 9 iron and pitching wedge will be lighter then the rest of the set if I tip trim.  Did not realize this would be so confusing lol.  Thanks for the input.

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#4 Howard Jones

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 10:23 AM

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?

S300 is the same shaft as S400, weight sorting gave them 2 different labels.
You can tip trim most tapers 3/8" with no insert problems, some even more, so for 9 and PW just tip trim.

Be aware of that weight goes UP when you hard step, so those S300 HS1 is close to S400 on wgt.

According to that chart the FCM is the same for S300 hs and S400 so thats why I was thinking of doing that, but if I tip trim them it’s essentially like hard stepping correct?  But I didn’t know about weight increasing with hard stepping so now the 9 iron and pitching wedge will be lighter then the rest of the set if I tip trim.  Did not realize this would be so confusing lol.  Thanks for the input.

We get close to hard stepping by tip trim, but not all the way.

A set of constant wgt shafts is made in discrete lengths but equal weight, so the longer the shaft is, the thinner is the shaft walls to keep weight the same.
When we hard step, we use a shorter shaft, and since its the same weight, it has thicker shaft walls.
When we tip trim, we can only equalize tip length, we cant do anything about shaft wall thickness, so hard stepped will be a hair stiffer than tip trimmed 4/8"

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#5 Billykav0817

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:19 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?

S300 is the same shaft as S400, weight sorting gave them 2 different labels.
You can tip trim most tapers 3/8" with no insert problems, some even more, so for 9 and PW just tip trim.

Be aware of that weight goes UP when you hard step, so those S300 HS1 is close to S400 on wgt.

According to that chart the FCM is the same for S300 hs and S400 so thats why I was thinking of doing that, but if I tip trim them it’s essentially like hard stepping correct?  But I didn’t know about weight increasing with hard stepping so now the 9 iron and pitching wedge will be lighter then the rest of the set if I tip trim.  Did not realize this would be so confusing lol.  Thanks for the input.

We get close to hard stepping by tip trim, but not all the way.

A set of constant wgt shafts is made in discrete lengths but equal weight, so the longer the shaft is, the thinner is the shaft walls to keep weight the same.
When we hard step, we use a shorter shaft, and since its the same weight, it has thicker shaft walls.
When we tip trim, we can only equalize tip length, we cant do anything about shaft wall thickness, so hard stepped will be a hair stiffer than tip trimmed 4/8"

Ok one more question, would it be better than to just tip trim the entire set instead of hard stepping?  Shafts will feel stiffer but now more consistent weight and stiffness throughout the set.  Thanks again.


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#6 Howard Jones

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:49 AM

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 16 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

My cousin wants me to put together a set of irons with hard stepped S300 shafts in them, but he’s concerned because from the 8 iron down it will be the same shaft.  I’m not a certified club builder by any means, more of a hobby for me, so I don’t know what to do about this.  Did some research and saw some people had their club builders tip trim their 9 iron and wedge shafts but that can be risky from what I saw.  What I’m thinking of doing is using the S400 shaft in the 9 iron through the wedges.  Would this make sense?

S300 is the same shaft as S400, weight sorting gave them 2 different labels.
You can tip trim most tapers 3/8" with no insert problems, some even more, so for 9 and PW just tip trim.

Be aware of that weight goes UP when you hard step, so those S300 HS1 is close to S400 on wgt.

According to that chart the FCM is the same for S300 hs and S400 so thats why I was thinking of doing that, but if I tip trim them it’s essentially like hard stepping correct?  But I didn’t know about weight increasing with hard stepping so now the 9 iron and pitching wedge will be lighter then the rest of the set if I tip trim.  Did not realize this would be so confusing lol.  Thanks for the input.

We get close to hard stepping by tip trim, but not all the way.

A set of constant wgt shafts is made in discrete lengths but equal weight, so the longer the shaft is, the thinner is the shaft walls to keep weight the same.
When we hard step, we use a shorter shaft, and since its the same weight, it has thicker shaft walls.
When we tip trim, we can only equalize tip length, we cant do anything about shaft wall thickness, so hard stepped will be a hair stiffer than tip trimmed 4/8"

Ok one more question, would it be better than to just tip trim the entire set instead of hard stepping?  Shafts will feel stiffer but now more consistent weight and stiffness throughout the set.  Thanks again.

"better" is a question of how much shaft wgt we want, and how we want the shorter end to look like

If we want to make a set DG S300 as 3-PW using 3-9 shafts like DG is, the PW is SS1 as standard.
This is a set where we say shaft wgt is 130 grams who is uncut wgt

We can now, instead of hard stepping, tip trim the whole set, who makes them all close to HS1, but the PW will still be SS1, but now "relative" to the others. Just like above, we are still at 130 grams since we did not soft or hard step.

We can hard step, 3-8 using 4-9 shafts (who makes the #8 iron the strongest), and this set "ADDS 1.7 grams on 3-8 who makes them 131.7 or close or "equal" to what S400 would be. The 9 and PW can be Tip trimmed to make them closer to HS1, and if wgt is a "big deal" use S400 #9 iron shafts for #9 and PW, but still tip trimmed. That will make them equal in wgt as the rest of the set.

Is we use S400 3-PW, we only get the weight and a tad stiffer flex, so the tip section will still be "standard" length, and by that higher flight vs S300 hard stepped or tip trimmed.

Edited by Howard Jones, 16 September 2018 - 11:55 AM.


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#7 Billykav0817

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 12:01 PM

Wow, really helpful and informative.  Appreciate it.

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#8 Howard Jones

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 12:22 PM

View PostBillykav0817, on 16 September 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Wow, really helpful and informative.  Appreciate it.

If possible, build a test club using S300  "strait in" and make it the longest club (#3 iron maybe?)
Now let him try this club, then ADD 1.7 grams of lead tape about the middle of the shaft.
It sounds like nothing, but its way more than "nothing", so try off how that works.
If it improves anything, use hard stepping to gain that wgt.
If he did not like it, use Tip trim to stay in the wgt they got without the lead tape.

Dont forget to dial in the right head wgt / sw value while you are at it, dont shoot for "standard values"

Edited by Howard Jones, 16 September 2018 - 12:27 PM.


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