Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Shaft Flex, A Crazy Journey...

shaft flex

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 A.Princey

A.Princey

    Major Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,488 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 396630
  • Joined: 09/20/2015
  • Location:Twilight Zone
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 800

Posted 15 September 2018 - 09:42 PM

I should have seen this as a possibility a long time ago, but I never wanted to believe it I suppose. My formative years had me in pretty much stock, dept store clubs(R-flex or softer) as I learned to play the game, and even my first "nice" iron set(R-flex as well) were apart of me in learning my own swing/feels. Fast forward several years, just after college, and I decide to upgrade to a "big boy" iron set and realize now that my SS necessitated at least Stiff flex to optimize my game, so I buy some Cally X20 Tours with PX 6.0(didn't realize these are even stiffer than advertised). Not long after I notice my misses were tending towards the left side, more hook than I'd ever known. A couple years later, the hooks were full on but I still played the same clubs.

Here's where WRX comes into play and I start delving deeper into my swing issues, roughly 5 years ago when I started reading on here. The entire time I read about shaft flex causing issues with being too soft and that stiffer typically helps to alleviate hook tendencies. I buy into this completely and get a second iron set with X100 shafts, and super low-low X-flex fairway shafts now too. During this equipment upgrade, I'm also making serious swing changes to help straighten things out. A little while after, about a year ago, I bought a X100 steel shaft for a driver I had to try "heavy" static weight, and I started hitting the best, straight ball flight again. I later realized what I thought was stiff at .335 in X100 is more like Regular. I started a serious shaft hunt from there to find graphite that matched the profile of the TT X100, and settled on the one in my signature, Pro 63. The last couple weeks now I am looking at my irons again and wondering if R-flex might be a good choice there as well, like it was in high school, so I take my old R-flex set to the range about 3 days ago. Wow, my feel is great and ball flight too, and it isn't forced or coerced by a manipulated swing thought.

I believe the entire time I went stiffer and stiffer in seach of help, I only made matters worse and started feeling like I had to overpower the shaft to get results. But somehow, with my 107 driver SS and quick tempo/transition, I'm hitting R flex better than the whole last decade of stiff and stiff+ options. Never in a million years would I have thought this could help, but I guess my swing works best when using equipment most similar in feel to the kinds I grew up on, learning the game. Weird....

Edited by A.Princey, 15 September 2018 - 10:26 PM.

Ping G 10.5*, Fuji Pro 63-R 42.75"
'16 M1 3w HL 17*, Xcon 7-S(untipped) 41"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron Morgan 615SS 32.5"(or any of 10 other putters...)

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 A.Princey

A.Princey

    Major Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,488 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 396630
  • Joined: 09/20/2015
  • Location:Twilight Zone
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 800

Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:24 PM

The other funny thing is my wedges, R400 shafts i believe, feel as good as anything I've ever hit, but I never once thought to put S or X in them for that very reason. I'm currently taking some DG S300s I have, going to soft step them several times and put them into modern heads.  Hopefully I'll have a winner.
Ping G 10.5*, Fuji Pro 63-R 42.75"
'16 M1 3w HL 17*, Xcon 7-S(untipped) 41"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron Morgan 615SS 32.5"(or any of 10 other putters...)

2

#3 Stuart G.

Stuart G.

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,892 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 174728
  • Joined: 04/12/2012
  • Location:New Hampshire
GolfWRX Likes : 6677

Posted 16 September 2018 - 04:28 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 15 September 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

I guess my swing works best when using equipment most similar in feel to the kinds I grew up on, learning the game. Weird....

Not really all that weird if you think about it.   Feel is how we learn to control our swing.  Most of those feels come from (or are oriented around) various body parts and actions but for some people, those feel cues can come from the equipment as well.  The flex/loading/unloading of the shaft gives us feedback about how we are accelerating (and decelerating) the club.   Some people can ignore it but others learn to use it to help manage timing and sequencing (and consistency).  And even for those that use it, some are better at adjusting to changes in feel from the equipment than others.

Edited by Stuart G., 16 September 2018 - 04:29 AM.


3

#4 Opinder

Opinder

    Advanced

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 511378
  • Joined: 08/30/2018
  • Location:AB, Canada
  • Handicap:10
GolfWRX Likes : 104

Posted 16 September 2018 - 04:52 AM

I

View PostA.Princey, on 15 September 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:

The other funny thing is my wedges, R400 shafts i believe, feel as good as anything I've ever hit, but I never once thought to put S or X in them for that very reason. I'm currently taking some DG S300s I have, going to soft step them several times and put them into modern heads.  Hopefully I'll have a winner.

your wedge R400 is too much higher trajectory un-control accurate. DG S300 wedge is helping lower launch and accurate.

I hate regular shaft...wiggle...I tried to back one time regular shaft.  It's not work for me.

I believe, you used regular shaft is a good choice and good distance for smoothly swing.  No hard swing hit.  



4

#5 ericsidewater

ericsidewater

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 500504
  • Joined: 04/29/2018
GolfWRX Likes : 19

Posted 16 September 2018 - 08:05 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 15 September 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

I should have seen this as a possibility a long time ago, but I never wanted to believe it I suppose. My formative years had me in pretty much stock, dept store clubs(R-flex or softer) as I learned to play the game, and even my first "nice" iron set(R-flex as well) were apart of me in learning my own swing/feels. Fast forward several years, just after college, and I decide to upgrade to a "big boy" iron set and realize now that my SS necessitated at least Stiff flex to optimize my game, so I buy some Cally X20 Tours with PX 6.0(didn't realize these are even stiffer than advertised). Not long after I notice my misses were tending towards the left side, more hook than I'd ever known. A couple years later, the hooks were full on but I still played the same clubs.

Here's where WRX comes into play and I start delving deeper into my swing issues, roughly 5 years ago when I started reading on here. The entire time I read about shaft flex causing issues with being too soft and that stiffer typically helps to alleviate hook tendencies. I buy into this completely and get a second iron set with X100 shafts, and super low-low X-flex fairway shafts now too. During this equipment upgrade, I'm also making serious swing changes to help straighten things out. A little while after, about a year ago, I bought a X100 steel shaft for a driver I had to try "heavy" static weight, and I started hitting the best, straight ball flight again. I later realized what I thought was stiff at .335 in X100 is more like Regular. I started a serious shaft hunt from there to find graphite that matched the profile of the TT X100, and settled on the one in my signature, Pro 63. The last couple weeks now I am looking at my irons again and wondering if R-flex might be a good choice there as well, like it was in high school, so I take my old R-flex set to the range about 3 days ago. Wow, my feel is great and ball flight too, and it isn't forced or coerced by a manipulated swing thought.

I believe the entire time I went stiffer and stiffer in seach of help, I only made matters worse and started feeling like I had to overpower the shaft to get results. But somehow, with my 107 driver SS and quick tempo/transition, I'm hitting R flex better than the whole last decade of stiff and stiff+ options. Never in a million years would I have thought this could help, but I guess my swing works best when using equipment most similar in feel to the kinds I grew up on, learning the game. Weird....

It's how much force you load the shaft with and when that occurs, there is only a tangential relationship with swing speed. I know Club Pros with SS over 110+ MPH and they need the soft side of regular -- you can also find people with ~90 MPH swing speed who need X-stiff.

Taylormade Tour Burner TP 10.5 Matrik Ozik X-Con 55g
Tour Edge Exotics XCG-V 15 degrees
Taylormade UDI 18 degrees
Ping G400 21 degrees
Seven Shinagawa MBs 4-PW Nippon Pro Modus 120  
Callaway Black Mack Daddy 3 Milled 56 degrees
Taylormade Double-Bend Blackout Spider Tour
Handicap: 11

5

#6 p3ga

p3ga

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 585 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 209795
  • Joined: 11/03/2012
  • Location:The Home for the Terminally Bored
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 427

Posted 16 September 2018 - 09:04 AM

I would submit that a number of us (esp. those of us over 50) have gone down this rabbit hole as equipment, technologies, training, and instruction have evolved over the last 10-15 years.

Funny enough, I recently placed an order with an online component maker & to make the free shipping minimum, filled the cart with a $15 driver shaft that upon receipt felt like a J spec senior ladies flex.

But to work on my swing timing, I threw a tip on, butt trimmed it, and installed a grip. Mated with a Fly Z driver head purchased from another forum member, it's booted a driver / shaft combo from the bag that cost entirely too much and required a high energy swing (hit) for best results.

I'm swinging easier, making better contact, picked up 15-20 yards of carry, and didn't hurt after yesterday's round. Win-win.

Eric mentions in the post above that how the shaft is loaded is more important than swing speed. I agree 100%. The old swingers vs hitters analogy.
Phil

I saw Brandel Chamblee drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's
His hair was perfect

- Warren Zevon, Werewolves of London



All the clubs I've ever owned.

6

#7 Cwebb

Cwebb

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 21353
  • Joined: 11/04/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 1772

Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:14 AM

The softer shaft must work for your tempo and timing......which is actually more important than our swing speed

7

#8 Jeri6gt

Jeri6gt

    Friday Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 247 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 375075
  • Joined: 05/08/2015
  • Handicap:Yes
  • Ebay ID:jeri6gt
GolfWRX Likes : 82

Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:46 AM

My buddy plays old Cobras w Rflex shafts and shoots in the 70s...he’s too cheap to change and somehow it works for him.
But he’s clearly not a WRXer.

All Titleist All the time

8

#9 chiva

chiva

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,299 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 176280
  • Joined: 04/20/2012
  • Location:Arizona
GolfWRX Likes : 578

Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:56 AM

Jim Furyk plays KBS Tour R+ hardstepped one time if I remember correctly. He has shot a 58( lowest round in tour history) and a 59(with a bogey). Seems to work for him.
OB and water hazards you flunkies

9

#10 A.Princey

A.Princey

    Major Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,488 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 396630
  • Joined: 09/20/2015
  • Location:Twilight Zone
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 800

Posted 16 September 2018 - 03:57 PM

I think I subconsciously load the shaft hard at the top and lose steam on the way down and EE with X flex. Softer flex gives me that sensation at the top by default so I can go back easier and transition more efficiently and accelerate down smoother.

Ping G 10.5*, Fuji Pro 63-R 42.75"
'16 M1 3w HL 17*, Xcon 7-S(untipped) 41"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron Morgan 615SS 32.5"(or any of 10 other putters...)

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 Cwebb

Cwebb

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 21353
  • Joined: 11/04/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 1772

Posted 16 September 2018 - 06:13 PM

View PostA.Princey, on 16 September 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

I think I subconsciously load the shaft hard at the top and lose steam on the way down and EE with X flex. Softer flex gives me that sensation at the top by default so I can go back easier and transition more efficiently and accelerate down smoother.

Absolutely.  Not so quick on the takeaway, smooth from the top...with gradual acceleration coming down.  All good things for many players

11

#12 BackNineCollapse

BackNineCollapse

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 311907
  • Joined: 04/28/2014
  • Location:San Diego
  • Handicap:+2.7
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 16 September 2018 - 08:11 PM

All flex and profiles do is deliver different feedback at various points in the swing.  That will effect how some people swing.  A robot will deliver the clubhead in essentially the exact same orientation, regardless or shaft type/flex (and that holds true for any swing type, i.e. set up to mimic a 125mph Sergio or a 90mph 10 HC).  People vary in how sensitive they are to proprioceptive shaft-related feedback.  Some people are close to robots in how little it matters (i.e. Mark Crossfield), while others will see massive changes in their launch conditions when they change shafts (again, it's not the shaft per se that is delivering the clubhead differently, it's the way the shaft feels different that causes the golfer to change their swing and deliver the clubhead differently).  The single best predictor of what shaft will work best for someone is what shaft they played when they were learning golf.  Completely disregarding their current swing stats (swing speed, transition, etc).   It doesn't surprise me at all that you are doing well with shafts similar to those you played during your formative golf years.
Taylormade M3 9.5* - TPT 15 MKP-MT-SW
Tour Edge Exotics CBX 15* - HZRDUS Yellow 6.5
Tour Edge Exotics CBX 18* - HZRDUS Yellow 6.5
Callaway X-Forged UT 21* - KBS Prototype Hybrid 95 XS
Callaway X-Forged UT 24* - Project X LZ 6.5
Callaway Apex MB 5-P - Project X LZ 6.5
Vokey SM7 Raw 54*F - Project X LZ 6.5
Vokey SM7 Raw 60*D - DGTI S400
EVNRoll ER1.2

12

#13 A.Princey

A.Princey

    Major Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,488 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 396630
  • Joined: 09/20/2015
  • Location:Twilight Zone
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 800

Posted 18 September 2018 - 06:55 PM

R400s straight into my G25s and the feel is so good, no muscling to get the correct feel.  The weird part is my misses now with this current set up are slight pushes to the right,  completely acceptable.  I can finally feel the shaft unload through impact and my ball striking has been so good.  Don't get me wrong, I have been playing well lately, but I have always kind of felt like I was manipulating the club a little.  I feel like I've been freed up and can swing naturally with the regulars, it's the strangest thing.
Ping G 10.5*, Fuji Pro 63-R 42.75"
'16 M1 3w HL 17*, Xcon 7-S(untipped) 41"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron Morgan 615SS 32.5"(or any of 10 other putters...)

13

#14 Cwebb

Cwebb

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 21353
  • Joined: 11/04/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 1772

Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:08 PM

View PostA.Princey, on 18 September 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

R400s straight into my G25s and the feel is so good, no muscling to get the correct feel.  The weird part is my misses now with this current set up are slight pushes to the right,  completely acceptable.  

Your "rate of closure" is probably a bit "less", now that you're using a smoother tempo

14

#15 A.Princey

A.Princey

    Major Hacker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,488 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 396630
  • Joined: 09/20/2015
  • Location:Twilight Zone
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 800

Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:42 PM

The other odd thing is my wedges might be S300 after all(stickers gone), and they want to go slightly left on me now, pull-like. I need more course time to justify changning shafts here as well.

Ping G 10.5*, Fuji Pro 63-R 42.75"
'16 M1 3w HL 17*, Xcon 7-S(untipped) 41"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron Morgan 615SS 32.5"(or any of 10 other putters...)

15




Also tagged with shaft, flex

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors