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older ball vs older equipment in scotland ...


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#1 tiderider

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:36 AM

haven't perused this forum at all since i became a wrxer, so this might have been covered ... apologies if so ... IF i wanted to play a course that hasn't changed much (i.e. a links course in scotland) where i have to play from the visitor tees, which are typically shorter than what today's equipment/ball can fit, do i use today's clubs with yesterday's ball (Titleist 90, say), persimmon woods with today's ball, or persimmon woods with yesterday's ball? ... i figure irons have the least amount of difference between today and 30 years ago, though you do hit them more often, so maybe the small difference adds up? ... i'm going over next year and playing at least 4 of the 5 open rota courses, but might play some other ones that have not had to change their course to fit a big tournament in ... thought i might use some form of set up from yesteryear on a course that is 6300 or so, just to see what it's like ... 50 yo, so i grew up with/learned on older equipment ...


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#2 augustgolf

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:41 AM

Welcome to this part of WRX!

Since you grew up playing with "traditional" equipment, and probably watched those older tournaments on the rota, where the players used the equipment of the time, I would most certainly play with the vintage/traditional stuff, especially since you would be playing shorter tees.

But, whatever you do, take lots of pictures, and grace these pages with them! I doubt that I will ever be able to make that trek, altho at one time, it was on my list of things to do. Life got in the way.

Again - welcome!

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#3 Dr. Block

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:19 PM

I think you will have a blast playing with yesterdays equipment, but yesterdays balls will probably leave you wanting. I can remember questioning the zip in the winding's of balats's that had been on the shelf for months back in the day, now you're talking balls that have been sitting for 20 years.  

I play the old gear with the Bridgestone Tour BXS and find it to feel comparably soft to the balata's of old.

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#4 TimV

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:33 PM

My thoughts as well.
Vintage:
60-61 Wilson Staff 2-PW w/t MacGregor Tourney Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Signature Brass Putter

67-68 Spalding Top Flite Professional 2-PW & Palmer FTD SW  w/t Cobra Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, T.P.M. 12 Putter

Classic:
71-72 Wilson Staff Button Backs 2-PW & R61 Sandy Andy SW w/t Wilson System 3000 Persimmon Driver and 3 Wood, MacGregor Tourney SAT 5 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Pay-Off Putter

Modern Classic:
'1995' Snake Eyes S&W Forged 3-10 Irons, Hubby Habjan Scotch Blade 2 Iron, Mizuno MP 52-07, Titleist 258-08 Vokey, w/t TaylorMade R5 Dual 10.5 degree Driver, Snake Eyes Quickstrike 19 degree 4 Wood, Brass Anser Style Slotline Putter

Modern:
2016 Wilson Staff FG Tour F5 Forged 4-GW Irons, Wilson Harmonized 55 degree SW, w/t TaylorMade Burner Superfast 2.0: 10.5 degree Driver, 18 degree 4 Wood, 21 degree Hybrid. Tour Edge CNC Milled Feel III Putter

For S&G:
lil' David Slingers 2-PW w/t Tracks USA 10 degree Driver, 15 degree 3 Wood, and Brass Rammer 3000 USA Putter
*Ridiculous offset on all of these. You have to see it to believe it!  

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#5 stixman

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:25 AM

What you propose is perfectly do-able. For three years the World Hickory Open played Carnoustie with hickory and a modern ball. There was the usual 'soft breeze' and I scored 85 off the yellow tees, age 71 and 12 handicap. Many time we played Gullane 2 and 3 with hickory.
Playing with persimmon and blades should be no particular issue provided you are prepared to plot your way around and not attempt the improbable;..... or you will get burned.

Vintage various.

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#6 BIG STU

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:09 AM

Stix nailed it--- On the balls on a whim last year I found a Lady Bridgestone--- WOW closest thing to the spin and feel of a balata yet. Here they are only 19.95 per doz at Wally World> another great ball for vintage play I found last week. While playing vintage I found a Duo Soft played it the last 3 holes and I was equally impressed with these balls.

LOL was in Wally World one day getting a dozen Lady Bridgestones over in the golf stuff. Some guy informed me "do you know those are ladies balls?" Yep I told him perfect for vintage play. He looked puzzled. I did not bother to explain I never do anymore because they can not fathom it.

But what you are doing is doable without doubt--- I play vintage quite a bit but have to pick certain courses usually around 6000 to 6200 yards for me. Pure fun for me do not care about the score
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#7 Fellaheen51

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:54 AM

Bought a bag of clubs (vintage Spaldings, have to post some pics someday) that had a bunch of old balls in a pocket.  Dunlop 65, Spalding Dot, Achusnet Titleist, etc.  While fishing them out, dropped a couple on the cement garage floor.  They sounded like mush!!!  So I started dropping them along with a fresh modern one.  Testing.  They were no where close to the same rebound bounce.  Dug out a few balatas and wound Titlesist, same result.  Not to mention one bad swing renders them unplayable.

The point.  Play your classic wood and blade on your trip to Scotland.  Would think you may receive many accolades from the local flavor for the sporting effort.  But do so with modern balls.  Pick your flavor.  They are many good ones to choose from that all play well off persimmon.  And one does not have to be super low compression.  Actually preferring the "pop" off the club face from one a bit firmer.  

Doesn't make any sense to me to make the game more difficult than it needs to be.  Modern balls are much better than "mushed" up old ones.
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#8 elwhippy

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 06:59 AM

Callaway Supersoft and Wilson DX models are softer than any balata ball....and a tad more durable (all time record for a balata ball was 2 shots)….Where are you playing in Scotland?

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#9 NRJyzr

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:19 AM

 elwhippy, on 14 September 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

Callaway Supersoft and Wilson DX models are softer than any balata ball....and a tad more durable (all time record for a balata ball was 2 shots)….Where are you playing in Scotland?


Just poking my head in to point out for those who may be unaware...  the Wilson DX is the same as the Duo sold here in the US.  You can see them listed on the Wilson website, marked as for the European market.

OK, with that out of the way....

I've become fond of the Wilson Staff Duo Urethane lately.  I've not gotten a great feel for a comparison against the FG Tour for greenside spin, but I've been happy with it so far.  

For those who might want something slightly firmer but still want the spin, I have to point at the Srixon ZStar.  I've been sticking those with 50-60 yard short pitches with a 52*-53* wedge of late.  Really nice short game performance IMHO.

The sleeper for me is the Wilson Staff 50 Elite.  It's not a urethane ball, but it reacts surprisingly well around the greens for a surlyn covered ball.  I use them for spring or fall golf, just bought two dozen to start using today for my course's aerated greens (or so I suspect).  They're not ideal for me in wind as a higher trajectory player, but i can work around that well enough, and the positives outweigh that quibble for me.

Enough blather for now.  :)

Edited by NRJyzr, 14 September 2018 - 08:20 AM.

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#10 tiderider

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:16 AM

probably will buy a set of persimmons woods ... not sure if i just want an old, classic set off ebay/wherever, or a new set from one of the companies that are out there making the stuff ... not sure i'll get new irons ... travelling limits what i can bring ... grew up with blades and played hogan's well into my late 30s before switching to the ap2 blend ... that, along with a different ball, should get me the 'feel' i'm looking for ...

we're scheduled to play turnberry, troon, muirfield & carnoustie right now ... waiting on TOC results ... i'm going over early to play 36 at dornoch and probably 36 at castle stuart ... would like to play cruden, aberdeen (played it before) and will def get to berwick somehow ... some of those courses are in the 6300 range, so i'd thought it'd be interesting to at least play that yardage with the "correct" equipment the course was intended for ... turnberry/carnoustie are big courses that have added some yardage here and there, though i don't know how much of that yardage i can play ... muirfield hasn't actually added that much to its yardage, so it'd be tempting to use persimmon and a non-prov1 ball there ...

Edited by tiderider, 14 September 2018 - 09:18 AM.


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#11 Fellaheen51

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:47 AM

 tiderider, on 14 September 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

probably will buy a set of persimmons woods ... not sure if i just want an old, classic set off ebay/wherever, or a new set from one of the companies that are out there making the stuff ... not sure i'll get new irons ... travelling limits what i can bring ... grew up with blades and played hogan's well into my late 30s before switching to the ap2 blend ... that, along with a different ball, should get me the 'feel' i'm looking for ...

we're scheduled to play turnberry, troon, muirfield & carnoustie right now ... waiting on TOC results ... i'm going over early to play 36 at dornoch and probably 36 at castle stuart ... would like to play cruden, aberdeen (played it before) and will def get to berwick somehow ... some of those courses are in the 6300 range, so i'd thought it'd be interesting to at least play that yardage with the "correct" equipment the course was intended for ... turnberry/carnoustie are big courses that have added some yardage here and there, though i don't know how much of that yardage i can play ... muirfield hasn't actually added that much to its yardage, so it'd be tempting to use persimmon and a non-prov1 ball there ...

If your knowledgeable in the ways of persimmon, value can be found on eBay.  Powerbilt Citations are very good persimmons.  Amongst many.  And with prudent shopping, a very nice set can be acquired relatively inexpensively.  Also, I would make your intentions known around these parts.  There are several purveyors of persimmon that could likely set you up with a nice set of players.
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#12 stixman

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:21 AM

 Fellaheen51, on 14 September 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

Bought a bag of clubs (vintage Spaldings, have to post some pics someday) that had a bunch of old balls in a pocket.  Dunlop 65, Spalding Dot, Achusnet Titleist, etc.  While fishing them out, dropped a couple on the cement garage floor.  They sounded like mush!!!  So I started dropping them along with a fresh modern one.  Testing.  They were no where close to the same rebound bounce.  Dug out a few balatas and wound Titlesist, same result.  Not to mention one bad swing renders them unplayable.

The point.  Play your classic wood and blade on your trip to Scotland.  Would think you may receive many accolades from the local flavor for the sporting effort.  But do so with modern balls.  Pick your flavor.  They are many good ones to choose from that all play well off persimmon.  And one does not have to be super low compression.  Actually preferring the "pop" off the club face from one a bit firmer.  

Doesn't make any sense to me to make the game more difficult than it needs to be.  Modern balls are much better than "mushed" up old ones.

'Actually preferring the "pop" off the club face from one a bit firmer. '

I have had a happy season hitting the Wilson FG Tour and the 'poppier' Tour X with my persimmon/ blades. Nice and spinny too!
Vintage various.

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#13 birly-shirly

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:23 AM

Totally doable, but I would caution you not to expect a set of persimmons and blades to be any less of an outlier on those, albeit historic, courses than you're used to at home.

Many traditional courses over here with overall yardages that are not intimidating on paper - but wind and ground conditions make yardage a bit of a moot point anyway. Playing for position off the tee will rarely be a bad move and you're less likely to see forced carries into fairways or greens. Bladed long irons are more playable than often reputed when  you can bounce it in from the fringe. All I'd say is that if you're not currently used to playing with persimmon woods, I'd fix that well in advance of the trip. I'd want to play those venues taking in the surroundings, not the novelty of trying to get a less forgiving driver into play. Sounds like a great trip.

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#14 BIG STU

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:53 PM

 Fellaheen51, on 14 September 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

Bought a bag of clubs (vintage Spaldings, have to post some pics someday) that had a bunch of old balls in a pocket.  Dunlop 65, Spalding Dot, Achusnet Titleist, etc.  While fishing them out, dropped a couple on the cement garage floor.  They sounded like mush!!!  So I started dropping them along with a fresh modern one.  Testing.  They were no where close to the same rebound bounce.  Dug out a few balatas and wound Titlesist, same result.  Not to mention one bad swing renders them unplayable.

The point.  Play your classic wood and blade on your trip to Scotland.  Would think you may receive many accolades from the local flavor for the sporting effort.  But do so with modern balls.  Pick your flavor.  They are many good ones to choose from that all play well off persimmon.  And one does not have to be super low compression.  Actually preferring the "pop" off the club face from one a bit firmer.  

Doesn't make any sense to me to make the game more difficult than it needs to be.  Modern balls are much better than "mushed" up old ones.
For me the old balatas when playing my vintage rounds are fun to spin into the greens with a 8 iron down and fun to putt with a vintage putter. On durability you are spot on. When I was putting the vintage selections in my Ryder Cup bag the other day I found 3 brand new in the sleeve Strata balatas. Played them for 9 holes and they went ok. But the fairways at this course had no grass and were sun baked hard. Never hit a cart path or tree and was playing vintage wedges. But all 3 of those balls scuffed bad. I chalked it up to the balls being old and possibly degraded. Switched to the Lady Bridgestone on the second 9. The greens were new and rolling great. Putted with a new Palmer Balata which was in a sleeve of 3 Scooter sent me a couple of years back. Played the next round with that same LB until I found a Duo Soft on 14. Played it the last 3 holes. I can spin either of those balls good with the old half worn out sticks
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Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
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Toney Penna Model 11 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge Stiff DJ Special
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

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#15 BIG STU

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:57 PM

 tiderider, on 14 September 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

probably will buy a set of persimmons woods ... not sure if i just want an old, classic set off ebay/wherever, or a new set from one of the companies that are out there making the stuff ... not sure i'll get new irons ... travelling limits what i can bring ... grew up with blades and played hogan's well into my late 30s before switching to the ap2 blend ... that, along with a different ball, should get me the 'feel' i'm looking for ...

we're scheduled to play turnberry, troon, muirfield & carnoustie right now ... waiting on TOC results ... i'm going over early to play 36 at dornoch and probably 36 at castle stuart ... would like to play cruden, aberdeen (played it before) and will def get to berwick somehow ... some of those courses are in the 6300 range, so i'd thought it'd be interesting to at least play that yardage with the "correct" equipment the course was intended for ... turnberry/carnoustie are big courses that have added some yardage here and there, though i don't know how much of that yardage i can play ... muirfield hasn't actually added that much to its yardage, so it'd be tempting to use persimmon and a non-prov1 ball there ...
First off I envy you such great courses--- Watched The Open this year and loved how the fairways were rolling. I would hit a lot of 1 or 2 irons from the proper tees of course for me and it ain't where those guys were hitting from. I am of firm belief that you guys invented the game and it is meant to be played on the ground like you still do it today in that neck of the woods

Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
FW TM V-Steel 5 wood 18* Pro Launch Blue
FW TM V-Steel 7 wood 21* Stock TM R
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- Little David 8802 or 97 Scotty Santa Fe rusty as hell
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer
Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want screw the USGA & R&A
Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
Vintage
Toney Penna Model 11 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge Stiff DJ Special
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

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#16 Blade Junkie

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:10 PM

I recall a happy day at Muirfield 3 years ago when 3 teams of hickory players went up against 8 teams of modern golfers in a team competition, and placed 1st, 2nd and 4th !

http://www.leith-rul...d2015scores.htm

As one of the winning hickory team, I remember watching in amusement the modern players struggling to keep the ball down in the wind, and thinking that we actually might have an advantage on Scottish Links, and in Scottish conditions, of clubs optimised for low ball flight and the running game. The only "nod" to our vintage clubs was in playing one tee forward from the modern players. No "hickory handicap" conversion or anything like that

I'd wager that you'd score better with persimmon/blades than your modern gear if you do end up teeing it up in God's golfing country ... and the book is already closed on which set of clubs you'll enjoy playing with more ... :)

Edited by Blade Junkie, 14 September 2018 - 03:14 PM.

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#17 BIG STU

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:26 PM

 Blade Junkie, on 14 September 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

I recall a happy day at Muirfield 3 years ago when 3 teams of hickory players went up against 8 teams of modern golfers in a team competition, and placed 1st, 2nd and 4th !

http://www.leith-rul...d2015scores.htm

As one of the winning hickory team, I remember watching in amusement the modern players struggling to keep the ball down in the wind, and thinking that we actually might have an advantage on Scottish Links, and in Scottish conditions, of clubs optimised for low ball flight and the running game. The only "nod" to our vintage clubs was in playing one tee forward from the modern players. No "hickory handicap" conversion or anything like that

I'd wager that you'd score better with persimmon/blades than your modern gear if you do end up teeing it up in God's golfing country ... and the book is already closed on which set of clubs you'll enjoy playing with more ... :)
Not tooting my own horn but that is one of the reasons on certain courses I can stay with some of these young limberbacks especially if the wind is blowing. I love those wind cheating stingers and the run up on the greens. Playing vintage minimalist golf  I keep up my creativity with a few clubs.
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
FW TM V-Steel 5 wood 18* Pro Launch Blue
FW TM V-Steel 7 wood 21* Stock TM R
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- Little David 8802 or 97 Scotty Santa Fe rusty as hell
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer
Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want screw the USGA & R&A
Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
Vintage
Toney Penna Model 11 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge Stiff DJ Special
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

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#18 TimV

TimV

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 06:53 PM

Me: You need to hit the knockdown shot here.
Young Guy: What's that?
Me:
:swoon:
Vintage:
60-61 Wilson Staff 2-PW w/t MacGregor Tourney Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Signature Brass Putter

67-68 Spalding Top Flite Professional 2-PW & Palmer FTD SW  w/t Cobra Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, T.P.M. 12 Putter

Classic:
71-72 Wilson Staff Button Backs 2-PW & R61 Sandy Andy SW w/t Wilson System 3000 Persimmon Driver and 3 Wood, MacGregor Tourney SAT 5 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Pay-Off Putter

Modern Classic:
'1995' Snake Eyes S&W Forged 3-10 Irons, Hubby Habjan Scotch Blade 2 Iron, Mizuno MP 52-07, Titleist 258-08 Vokey, w/t TaylorMade R5 Dual 10.5 degree Driver, Snake Eyes Quickstrike 19 degree 4 Wood, Brass Anser Style Slotline Putter

Modern:
2016 Wilson Staff FG Tour F5 Forged 4-GW Irons, Wilson Harmonized 55 degree SW, w/t TaylorMade Burner Superfast 2.0: 10.5 degree Driver, 18 degree 4 Wood, 21 degree Hybrid. Tour Edge CNC Milled Feel III Putter

For S&G:
lil' David Slingers 2-PW w/t Tracks USA 10 degree Driver, 15 degree 3 Wood, and Brass Rammer 3000 USA Putter
*Ridiculous offset on all of these. You have to see it to believe it!  

Founding Father of the Jolly Roger Golf Association Member #1 and only...
(You can join but you have to get the tattoo)

Spank the Persimmon or Walk the Plank!

18

#19 elwhippy

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 12:49 PM

I shot 73 round North Berwick using a MacGregor persimmon driver, Mizuno MS1 3 wood, John Letters laminated 4 wood, TP9s 3-pw, Hogan and Raw wedges and a My Day putter. Knocked a 3 iron stiff on Redan and birdied the over the wall hole (12th?). Ammo was either a Titleist 384LT or Slazenger Balata.

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#20 Jiggered

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 06:02 AM

 elwhippy, on 15 September 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

I shot 73 round North Berwick using a MacGregor persimmon driver, Mizuno MS1 3 wood, John Letters laminated 4 wood, TP9s 3-pw, Hogan and Raw wedges and a My Day putter. Knocked a 3 iron stiff on Redan and birdied the over the wall hole (12th?). Ammo was either a Titleist 384LT or Slazenger Balata.

Great scoring, old balls too, excellent!


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#21 Chris122

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 04:52 PM

View PostBlade Junkie, on 14 September 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

I recall a happy day at Muirfield 3 years ago when 3 teams of hickory players went up against 8 teams of modern golfers in a team competition, and placed 1st, 2nd and 4th !

http://www.leith-rul...d2015scores.htm

As one of the winning hickory team, I remember watching in amusement the modern players struggling to keep the ball down in the wind, and thinking that we actually might have an advantage on Scottish Links, and in Scottish conditions, of clubs optimised for low ball flight and the running game. The only "nod" to our vintage clubs was in playing one tee forward from the modern players. No "hickory handicap" conversion or anything like that

I'd wager that you'd score better with persimmon/blades than your modern gear if you do end up teeing it up in God's golfing country ... and the book is already closed on which set of clubs you'll enjoy playing with more ... :)

"God's golfing country".......is he coming to Yorkshire then?

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