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Persimmon


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#1 Doug parker

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 02:18 PM

Does anyone know when the macgregor super eye o matic p40w cloverleaf came out


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#2 Fellaheen51

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 03:03 PM

1957
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

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#3 rex235

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 09:39 PM

The 1957 MacGregor SEOM P40 "Cloverleaf" model might not have been the first in the "Cloverleaf" line.

The 1940 Byron Nelson "Cloverleaf Texan" model also had "Trajectory" weighting on its cloverleaf soleplate.

There was also a late '80's MacGregor Cloverleaf model with Green insert.

Someone might have all three models.

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#4 Fellaheen51

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:48 AM

Ah yes.  The Mac 88-0 cloverleaf woods.  A "grail" set.  Only to be used during the annual pilgrimage to play Forest Akers West (EL) with the old school buds.  Match them up with the Colokrom reissues.  Might not be able to play them all that well, but I'd be stylin'.
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

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#5 tstephen

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:29 PM

View PostFellaheen51, on 11 September 2018 - 04:48 AM, said:

Ah yes.  The Mac 88-0 cloverleaf woods.  A "grail" set.  Only to be used during the annual pilgrimage to play Forest Akers West (EL) with the old school buds.  Match them up with the Colokrom reissues.  Might not be able to play them all that well, but I'd be stylin'.

The Colokrom reissues are probably in the 5 best forged irons of the 1980's.

The 88-0 woods were the poorest shaped worst hitting with a nice paint job.


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#6 stixman

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:51 AM

The Colokrom reissues are probably in the 5 best forged irons of the 1980's.

And were the reissues better than the originals?  :)
Vintage various.

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#7 Fellaheen51

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:52 AM

View Poststixman, on 13 September 2018 - 04:51 AM, said:

The Colokrom reissues are probably in the 5 best forged irons of the 1980's.

And were the reissues better than the originals?  :)

All depends on the criteria used for the question.  Aesthetically?  No.  A chance to effectively hit a golf ball?  Yes.
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#8 xgolfx

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:52 AM

Like all sequels, the second never matches the first

CHARLEY PENNA

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#9 tstephen

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:23 AM

View Postxgolfx, on 13 September 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Like all sequels, the second never matches the first

CHARLEY PENNA

I don't know of any reissue club that might have been better though.

The 80s/90's seem to be the reissue decades with Staffs, Hogans, too.

Edited by tstephen, 13 September 2018 - 10:26 AM.


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#10 rex235

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 03:00 PM

The 1955 MacGregor "MT" Tourney Colokrom iron set is one of the rarest sets MacGregor ever made.

Note it has the "TP" diamond logo,(rare) and.....

DSCN8856.JPG

Yes- It is a Left handed set.



There were no LH iron remakes.....of anything...from MacGregor, or any manufacturer, for that matter.

Especially- 2014- Not one single  LH Wilson  FG Tour 100  Forged "Centennial" iron set.  

As if Dynapower, Fluid Feel, and the W/S buttons were RH Only.

LH MacGregor Cloverleaf Persimmons?  Have not seen one, but might have been done while the master luthiers weren't  looking...

Edited by rex235, 17 September 2018 - 03:05 PM.


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#11 xgolfx

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 04:37 PM

The left handed player had a difficult time with equipment prior to the end of WWll. Ben Hogan was left handed, but had to use right handed clubs. I think Bob Charles was the first lefty to win a major. The popular suppositions were no lefty was a great player and the best height for a player was less than 6 feet. Snead was the first multi major winner well over 6 feet. Americans dominated the game . Bobby Locke was thrown off the tour because the South African was winning too much money.  Captain Ben Hogan introduced the American Ryder Cup Team as “ here are the best 12 golfers in the world”., and sat down. In order to get the best clubs, golfers had to see a home club pro who was on the staff of MacGregor, Wilson, or Spaulding. All  clubs not sold at country clubs were second rate equipment

CHARLEY PENNA

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#12 dcopp7

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 05:16 PM

Quote

All  clubs not sold at country clubs were second rate equipment

CHARLEY PENNA
What years would that statement be true?
Callaway Hyper X 9*  what's the point?

Taylormade RBZ 15* 3W

Cleveland Launcher 3W 15*

Synchron Vespa 19* hybrid

Dunlop Pro 18* driving iron

Orlimar clone 23* 7W

Dynacraft Prophet CB flexface 5i-PW

Acer XB 52* & 58* wedges

Lynx putter

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#13 rex235

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 08:30 PM

Charley-

+1

"The popular suppositions were no lefty was a great player and the best height for a player was less than 6 feet."

Thank you for your comments, and honesty.   In order to get quality equipment, one had to have a PGA connection with the manufacturers, and their equipment representatives were the link to the PGA Professional.

Now what Sporting Goods stores had a PGA Professional on hand?

The master luthiers made RH equipment (persimmon woods), and the master grinders ground RH forged equipment.  Apprentices worked on RH equipment, and LH equipment.

You can find a LH golf club done by a master luthier, or ground by a master grinder as an example, but- it's a shark among minnows.*

It's why Walter Hagen Golf Clubs, though under the Wilson umbrella, were sold in golf course Pro shops only. (Note- there may have been some back doors in MI, due to the location of the plant in Grand Rapids.)  

We have found quality LH persimmon woods and irons equipment from MacGregor, Wilson, H&B/PowerBilt, and Spalding  from the '30s on.  Even when their Catalogs and information blatantly stated- "Right Hand Only"  

Yes- I said Wilson made persimmon woods.

* Might be a good title to a book chapter.

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#14 xgolfx

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 11:19 PM

In my opinion, the best grinders worked on left handed irons. The best nickers worked on left handed woods. The reason was most of the clubs were special order for either good players or   Club members of the home pro staff.

My dad was a local warehouse for the MacGregor rep in Illinois. His basic order , placed in September for April delivery, included long sets, short sets, lefty sets , and the top of the line ladies sets. He also had a supply of golf bags.

I believe I’ve told my Joe Louis story, but I’ll repeat it. In the late 1940’s, I was the only person in the pro shop on a Monday. The club was closed. Harry Adams, the rep for Illinois called me and said,”The champ is coming to pick up staff bags from you, but don’t take a check from him”. It was the first year of MacGregor staff bags in color. They were red,blue,silver,yellow, and silver ,The bags were the most expensive on the market. The champ came in dressed in brown including suit, shirt, tie and suede shoes. He was the biggest man I ever saw. He wanted one of each color. His driver and I unboxed them , put them in The trunk of his red Cadillac convertible,, and in the back seat with the top down. He pulled out the biggest roll of $100 bills , I’ve ever seen . My recolllection is that I had no change to give him because the members signed for purchases. I do remember him telling me to keep the change. It was $37.50. Since caddy fees were $1.50 at the time, that was a record payday for me.

CHARLEY PENNA

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#15 rex235

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Posted Yesterday, 12:48 AM

Charley-

+1 on the Joe Louis story.

It's why you're  "two books easy.", and you should write at least one.

You write-

"In my opinion, the best grinders worked on left handed irons. The best nickers worked on left handed woods. The reason was most of the clubs were special order for either good players or   Club members of the home pro staff."

I'd  agree with your reasoning if there were more proof.  

Actually, it may well have been true in the '30s, '40s and early '50s, but-. If this were true, then what about the following observations?

1) MacGregor would have made more  than LH Persimmon wood models with "sweepback" sole plates, with 4 screws. Nearly every LH wood was sweepback soleplates, even when the 5 screws, butterfly soleplated  M series and SEOM series came along. Know of only 1 LH butterfly soleplated M80 club.

2)There would be LH Penna Wedges. There aren't any.. There are LH MacGregor "Toney Penna" signature stamped Persimmon woods, but again, without the butterfly soleplates.

3) There would be LH MacGregor 10 irons with muscleback and 985 milling cuts, and  "MT" Wingback Sand Wedges.  If the best grinders did LH models, then there would be a number of MT "Wingback" Wedges and Sand Irons. There are none to be found.

Granted, MacGregor made some of the most sought after golf clubs for over three generations, some of which cannot be found on ANY catalog page, but without any reference of  REG NOs, one was told."Right Hand Only" meant exactly what it said.

There are LH TA Ironmaster putters, LH 693 Drivers, and even a 1958 LH MacGregor SEOM M80  3 wood with a butterfly soleplate.  There is even a LH MacGregor "Charley Penna" signature persimmon 2 wood..

Yes, these golf clubs exist.

Years ago, you showed graciously showed  everyone on Golfwrx the MacGregor "Big M" Tourney iron design drawings for the 1961 model year. This remains the equipment standard post by which one could clearly  judge what was made by MacGregor

Thanks again.

By the way..Did MacGregor ever make a  LH Penna Wedge?

.  


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#16 mocokid

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Posted Yesterday, 07:54 AM

View Postdcopp7, on 17 September 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Quote

All  clubs not sold at country clubs were second rate equipment

CHARLEY PENNA
What years would that statement be true?

I would guess it ended in the 1980s, before you had to go to a pro shop.  I think Ping broke this up, also large golf-only retail stores, Watts and others.  I remember the ads in golf and GD, large one pagers with hundreds of items for sale

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#17 xgolfx

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Posted Yesterday, 12:16 PM

There were  at least 4 left handed members of  Beverly CountryClu b during my dads years as pro. I know he had MacGregor made sets for them each year. Some were stamped Charley Penna, or Toney Penna. The shafts would  vary from stiff to regular. All of them would have been made by the custom department  club makers. There were Penna wedges but I doubt  one irons were made

CHARLEY PENNA

Edited by xgolfx, Yesterday, 12:19 PM.


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#18 weeicemon

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Posted Yesterday, 03:47 PM

View Postxgolfx, on 17 September 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

The left handed player had a difficult time with equipment prior to the end of WWll. Ben Hogan was left handed, but had to use right handed clubs. I think Bob Charles was the first lefty to win a major. The popular suppositions were no lefty was a great player and the best height for a player was less than 6 feet. Snead was the first multi major winner well over 6 feet. Americans dominated the game . Bobby Locke was thrown off the tour because the South African was winning too much money.  Captain Ben Hogan introduced the American Ryder Cup Team as " here are the best 12 golfers in the world"., and sat down. In order to get the best clubs, golfers had to see a home club pro who was on the staff of MacGregor, Wilson, or Spaulding. All  clubs not sold at country clubs were second rate equipment

CHARLEY PENNA


Wouldn't Ben Hogan be the first lefty to win a major?  You stated so yourself!

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#19 rex235

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Posted Yesterday, 04:05 PM

View Postxgolfx, on 19 September 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

There were  at least 4 left handed members of  Beverly CountryClu b during my dads years as pro. I know he had MacGregor made sets for them each year. Some were stamped Charley Penna, or Toney Penna. The shafts would  vary from stiff to regular. All of them would have been made by the custom department  club makers. There were Penna wedges but I doubt  one irons were made

CHARLEY PENNA

Charley-

Thanks again for your honesty.  You should still write a book, and Ironmaster would be glad to help.

This is the RH MacGregor "MT" M75 Wingback Sand Iron.

100_8220.JPG

It is quite doubtful MacGregor ever made a LH "Wingback" sand wedge, and no, there were no LH Wingback iron remakes.    

Will keep looking for a LH Penna Wedge, but my guess is these clubs are no longer in circulation.

Edited by rex235, Yesterday, 04:09 PM.


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