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2019 OB & Lost Ball Rule


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#1 Deceptively Short

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:17 AM

As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to ‘elite events’.
Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of ‘elite event’? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?


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#2 BIG STU

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:31 AM

Around here I am sure most of them will because they do anyhow. To speed up play in tourist golf season a lot of OBs (no joke) are marked as a lateral and drop areas are placed over the hazard. This is to hopefully speed up play which your typical Joe Tourist golfer does not go by the letter of the rule book anyhow. League play I do not have any idea since I do not do league play. But around here most courses have a history of being lenient and frugal on implementation of "Local Rules".
Personally I do not care how they do it as long as it suits the people that are playing. I know back when I played the Mini Tours here we had a seperate rules sheet and at the player's meeting it was always stressed especially to the guys that played a respective course to pay real close attention to the tournament rules sheet. Also if you play some courses a lot the few days before the World Am Handicap you will see some different markings from what you are used to in normal play
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#3 Colin L

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:21 AM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to 'elite events'.
Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of 'elite event'? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?

Your memory is correct.  We'll shortly have the final details of the possible Local Rule in the Committee Prodecures section of  the Official Guide to the Rules of Golf which will be published online on 10 September and as hard copy on 1st November.  You can pre-order from Amazon for delivery on the 1st if you care to part with £20.

As I understand it, the Local Rule is open to be used in any club competition and social golf as the club decides.  My own club is looking to implement it but we're waiting to hear what CONGU has to say as I have heard of a possibiity that it will not allow it in a qualifying competition.

There are other questions around waiting to be answered - I hope in the Guide - such as can it be in force on certain holes and not on others, and what do you do if there is no fairway on a particular hole or  if your ball was lost short of the fairway.

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#4 Sawgrass

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:25 AM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to 'elite events'.
Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of 'elite event'? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?
Local Rules may (or may not) be enacted by either the Course Committee or, if a competition is being held, the Course Committee's decision can be upheld or overridden by the Competition Committee.

I can't imagine anything different in this regard for 2019.  So, while either Committee may not apply this new LR to elite events, they certainly will have the option to ignore it for all play.

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#5 Deceptively Short

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,


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#6 dcmidnight

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 09:44 AM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

I was initially told that we would definitely be implementing it but then had a couple of senior members - as in old, not long time - tell me that "not if they had anything to do with it". Now they arent in a position to actually do anything other then throw a fuss but it seems clear theres a small minority of members that find this distatsteful. IE they like walking uphill both ways barefoot in the snow to get to the club and they dont want to change.

The other 99% though are absolutely in favor of it. Even though truthfully, pace of play is almost never an issue at our club.
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#7 sui generis

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:31 AM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.
Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#8 wadesworld

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

I've talked to a couple courses around here and they plan on implementing it for all club competitions.

Where it won't be in effect is for state golf association tournaments or traveling tournaments (such as an AJGA event).

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#9 Stuart G.

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:56 AM

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.

I presume you mean a finalized version?

For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:

Edited by Stuart G., 05 September 2018 - 10:57 AM.


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#10 sui generis

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 11:03 AM

View PostStuart G., on 05 September 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.

I presume you mean a finalized version?

For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:

Sorry, I meant Local Rule.

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#11 Sawgrass

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 11:14 AM

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 05 September 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.

I presume you mean a finalized version?

For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:

Sorry, I meant Local Rule.
I suspect confusion is at play here.  Stuart did link to the proposed Local Rule's wording, right?

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#12 Stuart G.

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 11:34 AM

View PostSawgrass, on 05 September 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 05 September 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 05 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,

No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.

I presume you mean a finalized version?

For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:

Sorry, I meant Local Rule.
I suspect confusion is at play here.  Stuart did link to the proposed Local Rule's wording, right?

Correct and correct :-)

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#13 sui generis

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 02:29 PM

Thanks, Stuart. Obviously, I hadn't seen it. Where is it to be found? Are there models for other 2019 Local Rules?
Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#14 Sawgrass

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 05:48 PM

View Postsui generis, on 05 September 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

Thanks, Stuart. Obviously, I hadn't seen it. Where is it to be found? Are there models for other 2019 Local Rules?
Here's the USGA link:

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

As far as I know, it is only this new Local Rule which has a specific text associated with it.

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#15 LeoLeo99

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:20 PM

It's a very confusing rule.  Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.

Does whether a club adopts this local affect their course rating?

Edited by LeoLeo99, 05 September 2018 - 06:21 PM.


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#16 Augster

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:40 PM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 05 September 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

It's a very confusing rule.  Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.

Does whether a club adopts this local affect their course rating?

Probably not. The new rule just takes the place of going back to the tee and rehitting. Most people that take this rule will end up at or over their ESC on the hole. Net double bogey in 2020.

The only reason for a course rating at all is for handicap purposes. While the slope may take into consideration hole layouts that may create more OB balls, I doubt they add in for someone hitting 2 balls OB.

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#17 Stuart G.

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 04:14 AM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 05 September 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

It's a very confusing rule.  Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.

What's confusing about it?

The whole point is that hazards (penalty areas) have defined boundaries that can be used as a reference point for any drop.   The rule simply provides a way to establish a consistent and uniform way to determine where to drop in the absence of such boundaries.

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#18 Deceptively Short

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 04:38 AM

It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.

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#19 Colin L

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:09 AM

I suppose it has the potential for confusion, but not if you check, as a matter of routine, the LRs for the course you are playing.

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#20 Halebopp

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:18 AM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 06 September 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.
Members of our national golf union's rules committee have made it quite clear (unofficially) that they hope none of the clubs in Finland would adopt the local rule.

I've had a brief chat about the issue with our club pro and we both think it shouldn't be put into use nor should we introduce any new penalty areas onto our courses.

We'll have to wait and see what the membership and the people running the business side of our club think, there's a very good chance their opinions weight more than ours. Luckily, and unfortunately, we have until mid-April to get things sorted out.

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#21 sui generis

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:47 AM

View PostHalebopp, on 06 September 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 06 September 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.
Members of our national golf union's rules committee have made it quite clear (unofficially) that they hope none of the clubs in Finland would adopt the local rule.

I've had a brief chat about the issue with our club pro and we both think it shouldn't be put into use nor should we introduce any new penalty areas onto our courses.

We'll have to wait and see what the membership and the people running the business side of our club think, there's a very good chance their opinions weight more than ours. Luckily, and unfortunately, we have until mid-April to get things sorted out.

I think we'll repaint our yellow stakes red but will certainly need a LR for opposite edge relief for about two hundred yards of a small creek on one hole. Other than that no new red stakes and no LR for LB/OB.
Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#22 Deceptively Short

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 12:25 PM

So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?

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#23 klebs01

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:35 PM

View PostDeceptively Short, on 07 September 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?

I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.

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#24 Halebopp

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:03 PM

View Postklebs01, on 07 September 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 07 September 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

So based on the replies above most clubs won't be introducing the LR?

I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.

Yep, based on some Facebook groups etc. it seems like most of the casual golfers (or, in other words, those who aren't Rules Officials) would welcome the local rule.
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#25 Newby

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:21 PM

As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.


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#26 Augster

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 04:36 PM

View Postklebs01, on 07 September 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostDeceptively Short, on 07 September 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?

I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.

This.

Plus, when you are referring to “clubs” I think you are thinking formal events.

For day to day play the LR can be used by each group as they see fit. 2 or more players in a group can make their own committee and enact the LR. In the US at least.

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#27 Sawgrass

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 04:50 PM

View PostNewby, on 07 September 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.
I've not seen a reference suggesting that this LR could or should be restricted to specified holes.  Can you help me with that?

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#28 Colin L

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 01:21 AM

View PostSawgrass, on 07 September 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

View PostNewby, on 07 September 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.
I've not seen a reference suggesting that this LR could or should be restricted to specified holes.  Can you help me with that?

I have asked the R&A about whether this could be done but we have to wait another couple of days to get answer when the Official Guide to the Rules is published online. Why you would want to be selective, I don't know and like you wait to hear from Newby.

Also to be answered, is how it can work, if  at all, on a short hole which has no fairway or on a hole where off the tee there is a carry over rough ground and your ball is lost short of the fairway.

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#29 Newby

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 02:49 AM

View PostColin L, on 08 September 2018 - 01:21 AM, said:

Also to be answered, is how it can work, if  at all, on a short hole which has no fairway or on a hole where off the tee there is a carry over rough ground and your ball is lost short of the fairway.

Examples of why it may be selective.
There may be other situations on a course where it would be impracticable, unreasonable or simply the best way of handling a PoP problem on a course that hasn't any other PoP issues related to the course design.

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#30 Colin L

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 03:27 AM

I think we're coming at the same thing from different angles.  I was looking for ways of making it work in the situations described rather than excluding them.


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