24 replies to this topic

[Kelly_m_brown]

I own a home in Gilbert, AZ on a golf course. The home is situated approximately ¾ of the way down the fairway on the right hand side (which is where all bad golfer's slice). Anyway, my home has been a rental for approximately 6 years and during this time 93 golf balls have struck the side of my stucco & wood framed house. The property managers never knew about this (or never mentioned it and I live out of State). I just discovered the damage after a tenant broke her lease early and I listed the property for sale. The listing broker inspected the home and notified me of the damage and suggested I file a claim with my insurance company (State Farm Insurance). The adjuster came out and inspected the property and counted up the 93 golf ball holes. He contacted me a few weeks later (today) and stated that since each hole represents a separate or individual event/occurrence, that he would have to file 93 separate claims. The cost to patch each hole was estimated by the adjuster at $143, my deductable is -$500 resulting in a loss of -$357 per claim for a total of -$33,201 (for what the broker estimates in >$1,000 or less of work).

I have read elsewhere on this website that assumption of liability does not apply to a home. A quote from the articles reads, "The assumption of the risk doctrine does not apply to actions in trespass. The granting of building licensing preempts this. You cannot draw upon cases which deal with tort upon a person to answer questions regarding cases which deal with damages arising from trespass to property. And assumption of the risk is not a defense to a trespass claim."Article

If this is true, then I should be entitled to compensation for one or all of the following individuals (State Farm Insurance, HOA/Golf Course, other?). Whether it was the poor design of the golf course, placing the angle of the tee box to pin too close in proximity to the homes or the absurdity that each golf ball hole requires a separate claim; I would at least like some compensation for the damage.

My question is who is most liable for this? Who should be named in the suit? Can anyone recommend an attorney regarding this matter?

Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions,

Kelly

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[longbal30]

keep it real.......your liable........i dont understand why people buy homes on a golf course and then complain that it gets hit by golf balls. i guess that you think that only pga pros will be playing the course and your home is safe. be realistic, you know that you purchased the home where bad shots will land on that hole, so why didnt you invest in a net to block the balls. they use them all over the place where i live. a home is a investment and you purchased a investment on a golf course within the firing zone, protect your investment. stop whining.

[YellowBanana]

do you get to keep the golf balls.

[Kelly_m_brown]

Hi Longball,

I too golf, and have bounced more than my fair share off rooftops/walls. The neighbors did have a net up for a number of years but sold their home and took the net with them. The question is, whether I will occasionally receive the hack-golfer-drive, but rather, who is responsible for the damage? Me.. 99% of the time, except when I file a claim... then the burden belongs to the insurance company (that I pay thousands of dollars a year) without a single claim. This is structural damage, similar to vandalism.

Insurance companies are in the business of making money, but occasionally, they have to take a loss on a policy. The excuse they are using (individual claims) is such a copout, it is borderline false advertising/fraud. I don't think the Golf course would be a good course of grievance (no pun intended). They must receive hundreds of complaints annually and if they patched ever homeowners complaint about golf-ball drive-by's, they'd BK overnight.

Your point is well taken but considering the extent of damage, with no easing of the capital loss, I strongly disagree.

Thanks for the input though,

Kelly

[Kelly_m_brown]

I used to collect the golf balls (most of which land in the pool). I no longer live there and the pool-cleaner or tenant has picked the property clean.

[glfstud6703]

Gee thats a bad deal,  I dont know any good attorneys but I know you will need a really good one here.  Houses on my course get hit all the time and the golfer who hits the ball is responsible.  Good luck though.  By the way who is Longball... your father.  Like he was getting ready to tell you to clean your room.

[Kelly_m_brown]

Golfstud,

Longball is the first blogger to reply, I think his handle (I hope the term "he" is correct) is longbal30? I just interpret handles, is Golfstud correct?

[Kelly_m_brown]

by the way, I am a Mr. Kelly Brown... just to clarify.

[stevepoz]

I wouldn't quote the prior "article" as binding precedent.  It is merely one person's thoughts on the matter.  I am not sure what courts in your jurisdiction have come out of the matter.  I would think if the course were there first, it is a known hazard and you might find it difficult to win a trespass action.  You could always try to go after the renter, depending on the lease language with respect to damages.

See:
http://library.findl...b/1/126692.html

Other good sources:

http://www.google.co...amp;safe=images

Edited by stevepoz, 04 June 2008 - 02:36 PM.

[bulldog8b]

I am not a lwayer, but you could look into suing your insurance company in small claims court.  I agree that saying each hole is a seperate claim is a copout and I also doubt that it would cost $143 per hole.  You need to get a few estimates and then take your insurance company to small claims court.  I don't know about in AZ, but I sued somebody in SCC last year in CA and it was easy, quick and cheap.  I filled out the paperwork online in about 30 minutes and then it cost $85 to file and about $40 to have the defendant served.  My trouble is getting the money for a car accident from somebody who was driving a borrowed car w/ no license, registration or insurance.  Then, the car got towed and repoed from the tow yard.  I got screwed on that one, but I am sure you would have an easier time collecting.  You just might want to check w/ a lawyer first to see if you have a case.  Their 93 seperate claims thing might actually be a law.

[golftitleist]

pho_choob, on May 29 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

do you get to keep the golf balls.

[JMG_02]

Well, I am sorry for the situation you are in.  That really is a raw deal.  But as an insurance agent I can see both sides of the story.  I'll play the devil's advocate.  Insurance companies pay claims based upon losses caused by an "event"...an event that happened at a particular time and not over time.  Thats why they dont' pay for rust/rot, etc. and why they won't pay for damage caused by a slow leak thats been present for many years but WILL pay for a water burst.  The key words are "sudden and accidental".

One could say, perhaps your house was overshadowed by a large tree that occasionaly broke limbs off and damaged your house over the course of many years.  A less-than-honest policyholder might notice the damage, but just wait til the roof gets good and totaled before filing a claim and getting a whole new roof.  Policies aren't meant to be used that way thats why they are for something that is specific and definite (i.e. A large branch fell and put a hole in the roof...covered...not several branches that made small damages to a large area of the roof over time).

The company could look at the golf ball situation the same way as the tree limbs.  A policyholder could notice golf ball damage, but know if they got it fixed (whether by turning it in under the policy or paying for it alone), that it would just be damaged again soon, unless some measure was taken to prevent it.  So, why get 3-4 holes fixed when you could wait til the whole side is damaged and just get them to re-do the whole wall.  Thus wait another few years and have it done again.

In reality, insurance (mainly home insurance) and its purpose has been distorted over the years.  In the old days, there never was "replacement cost" policies.  The purpose of insurance is to "indemnify" which means to make whole or restore you to the status you were prior to the loss.  Well, replacement cost policies actually benefit you after a loss.  You had a 10 year old roof?  Now you have a brand new roof with no account for depreciation.  Most people use insurance policies like a maintenance policy when they are supposed to be there for catastrophies.  That, in turn, raises the rates of everyone else because people turn in numerous claims for small issues.

That isn't really directed at the OP, just kind of a broad statement about insurance companies and sometimes they way they look at things.  Now, is that to say that some companies are stingy and just look for ways to NOT pay for something, of course not.  There are adjusters out there who probably blur the lines more than others.  Thats really the only suggestions I can provide is maybe to turn in another claim and ask for a difference adjuster.  I recently had a client who turned in a roof claim and the first adjuster denied it because it was "wind driven rain" which is not covered.  He turned it in again a few weeks later after the problem got worse and requested a different adjuster and got it paid.

Good luck!

[dizzydog]

If your on Ocotillo Golf Course about 12 of those holes are probably from me =)

[jskd82]

dizzydog I would erase that comment you made lol.  He can use that as a statement and sue you for it if it is in fact the course you stated lol.

[DaveyH]

the house is not an integral part of the course.
Liability insurance is usually the best bet.

[bigred90gt]

According to the course superintendent at one of my local courses (played a round or 3 with him), unless the homeowner can prove you intentionally took a line over (or toward) their home (to cut a dogleg or something similar), the liability lies with the homeowner. I would definitely challenge the insurance company on trying to file each one as a separate claim, but what would be the reason behind naming the HOA and the course in a suit?

[Wookieedog]

Kelly_m_brown, on May 29 2008, 08:28 PM, said:

Hi Longball,

I too golf, and have bounced more than my fair share off rooftops/walls. The neighbors did have a net up for a number of years but sold their home and took the net with them. The question is, whether I will occasionally receive the hack-golfer-drive, but rather, who is responsible for the damage? Me.. 99% of the time, except when I file a claim... then the burden belongs to the insurance company (that I pay thousands of dollars a year) without a single claim. This is structural damage, similar to vandalism.

Insurance companies are in the business of making money, but occasionally, they have to take a loss on a policy. The excuse they are using (individual claims) is such a copout, it is borderline false advertising/fraud. I don't think the Golf course would be a good course of grievance (no pun intended). They must receive hundreds of complaints annually and if they patched ever homeowners complaint about golf-ball drive-by's, they'd BK overnight.

Your point is well taken but considering the extent of damage, with no easing of the capital loss, I strongly disagree.

Thanks for the input though,

Kelly

Kelly, I hate to tell you, but this is different than vandalism.  Vandalism is an intentional act to destroy/deface property.  This is an unitentional act where it was forseeable this would happen when you bought the house on the course 3/4 down the way on a hole.  The course is not liable becaus eyou bought a home on a course where you could see something like this happening.  If the course was built after the house and you had no idea that the course would be built, then you might be on different grounds as you did not assume the risk.

As for the insurance company, they are arguing each hole is a different incident.  I would argue right back at them that there is no evidence that each is a different incident.  It could be 50 different golfers, OR it could be 1 golfer hitting 50 balls... they are making the assumption that each hole is a different golfer.  I would ask for the proof that they have showing that each is a separate incident and absent proof of that, I would argue that they must assume this was one incident. Likely will not fly, but turn their assumption against them.

bigred90gt, on Nov 7 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

According to the course superintendent at one of my local courses (played a round or 3 with him), unless the homeowner can prove you intentionally took a line over (or toward) their home (to cut a dogleg or something similar), the liability lies with the homeowner. I would definitely challenge the insurance company on trying to file each one as a separate claim, but what would be the reason behind naming the HOA and the course in a suit?

Agreed with this statement.  No basis for the HOA.  No basis for the course, unless it was built after you bought the house.  If I am not intentionally hitting at your house, then there is no basis for an intentional tort.  As for negligently striking the ball into your home, the question is if you assumed the risk of your home being struck by golf balls when you bought it.  I would say yes, because it is foreseeable that your home could be struck.  


Hate to say this, but not alot you can do but repair it yourself.  Maybe go after the renter because they failed to keep the property in good repai while they were renting it, but not likely to work, IMO.

Sorry.

[oldironman]

One of the things not mentioned in your ins. adj. estimate is the damage to the moisture barrier (the black paper used in the lathing). I have no doubt that some of those holes have torn the paper which will allow moisture to penetrate causing further damage. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you should have the work done promptly by lic. contractor and worry about the liability later. PS be sure to  check for mould and other potential damages to relieve yourself from further liablity from the future owner. Good luck

[Gungagalunga]

I want to know how the insurance company can prove that these are all separate incidents. That is a pretty big assumption. It could be an act of vandalism all together.

The point is, you don't know how or when it happend and when all the golf balls struck the house. Therefore you file it as one big claim. They could spend the money on trying to identify the "age" of the damage but it would be way more costly than just paying you.

I would also check your renters agreement to see if there is a clause that states something to the degree of "all damages need to be reported once noticed"

There is no way in hell you could sustain 93 hits to the house as a tenant and not hear it. Also consider the fact that the tenant probably walked around the house every once in a while and must have seen the fallen golf balls.

Don't let them take you to town on assumptions. Assumptions will not stand in court.

[sanderslongdrive]

Are you sure it's not wall boring weebil damage? They get very active during the mating season.

Longbal30 said it all. And expressed in lawyers' lingo - Volenti non fit injuria.

Chainlink fencing clearly needs erecting to keep the weebils out.

[Bubbalongball]

Im sorry but I just have to post after reading Mrs kelly brown post cause I laughed my a** of when I read it and then saw the pictures, that is priceless. Its all your cost and dude if you afford a house on a course then you can pay the $1000 to have it fixed plus the fact the contractor is screwing you to cause your siding looks like stucco and 93 holes wouldnt take any more then 5 hours to fix(3.5 hours to fill holes 1.5 hours the next day to come and paint), I have been in construction a long time and know that would not cost that much to fix.

Look at it like this, LESSON LEARNED PUT UP NET OR FIX HOLES EVERY COUPLE YEARS, you can afford a house on a golf course, a pool man.

I also read that someone said on their course if you hit the house you are responsible which is a load of bull, your insurance should cover it but I see your insurance adjuster is very good at his job and got you on the fact they are all separate circumstances, but if you even put in one claim your rate will go up and what happens if anything else happens then your screwed with high insurance cost.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

HAHAHAHA I am pretty sure I know this exact house and which course its on. I play there like once every two years when I want a break from the outrageous prices of golf here in Phx. I remember laughing at the house last year because it still had all the holes in it.

[SOONERMAGIC]

Its your fault.  You bought a house on a golf course.  I have homeowners come into the pro shop all year, so and so hit my house.  Well Sorry, buy a house about 200 down on the left side next time.

[Redsnap5]

According to one of our local golf course GM's all homeowners/property owners sign a document upon purchase that basically puts all responsibility for damages on the homeowner. The golf course or the golfers are not liable and you assume all risk when you purchase property on a golf course. He say's he has a homeowner that like you lives about 225yds down the fairway on the right side that has had their lexus hit about 5 times. He parks it in the garage but doesn't close the door and it gets hammered. lol

My advice...sell the house and buy another on the other side of the fairway.

[Tidiliwomp]

Insurance underwriter here... The guy that writes your insurance policies, not an agent, the actual guy that actually decides what to charge you and puts together that policy you have filed away.

Yeah i know i am the devil... a scam artist, ect.

I'm actually a pretty nice guy and want to make sure you have all the coverage you need, tragically i have to make money too so i have to charge you for that coverage.

I actually write insurance for more than a few country clubs, and HOA's on golf courses (this is with a bare walls approach taken, meaning the HOA's policy covers everything except what is within the bare walls, so no paint, no carpet, no personal items). I am sorry to say you are liable, Even if you have the most comprehensive coverage that exists chances are your deductible for this peril is around $5,000 (some places $500 and some $100,000 depends on what your board thinks it needs) Chances also are that your deductible is also applied per occurrence, each hole will count as 1 occurrence...) Besides that most policies exclude "inherent risk" this means just what others have been saying - You know there is a risk of getting hit by golf balls by having a house on a golf course.

If I were to recomend something that would get your wall fixed by some one else I would say file a suits against your insurance carrier, the contractors that built your home and the course, in this suit you need to site the poor design of the course is causing the damage (this might get you a net put up or the tee boxes moved), you also need to state that the contractor did not build with materials that would hold up to known risks in the area (this may get you a new exterior wall using sheet aluminum and stucco that will hold up to impacts), and with your insurance carrier you need to try and convince the judge/jury that the entire golf season is one occurrence and that this amount of damage cannot be considered an inherent risk as no one would design a course that placed a home in an artilery range. (btw you dont know me idk you and this convo never happened lol)

Of coarse this could put you in the hole more if you end up losing the lawsuit... but everyone does hate insurance companies so if it goes to a jury you could end up winning just based on hate for us... but the company may also settle, repairing that damage would cost the same as paying an insurance comapnies attorneys for about 1 day...

The simplest thing to do for you would be to repair the damage and then hang 1 inch lattice about a half inch off the surface of the wall and plant a climbing vine at the base.



Yes I know this topic is about 4 years old, but i see this topic come up everyonce and a while and i thought i would put down my opinion (yes opinion, my post should in no way be taken as expert advice, no inurance policy is exactly the same, and i cannot offer bullet proof advice with the info at hand) so ppl can maybe find it in the search. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have if you are still looking for any insight. I am also glad to help the wrx community in any way i can with their insurance needs, keep in mind that I focus specifically on property insurance, i do not do medical, life, or liability, i have some knowledge of auto but it is not exactly my forte.

Edited by Tidiliwomp, 18 July 2012 - 10:37 PM.