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Putting in 2019 - Flagstick in or out?


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#1 PingEye2

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 10:28 AM

Curious if anyone has given this much thought?  My initial thoughts are leave it in except for the short(ish?) ones. But not sure where that cutoff would be.  Not even sure if that’s a good idea.  

I told my son to do what Bryson does since he will probably have all the stats worked out!


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#2 wadesworld

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:11 AM

It will be out for 90+% of my putts. There's simply a larger hole if it's out.

The times I'll leave it in are when I have a super-slick downhiller that I think I cannot possibly stop, or when I'm just a LONG ways away and don't feel like taking the time to take the pin out for the 1% chance the putt might go in.

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#3 PingEye2

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:55 AM

As I recall, Pelz said his research indicates it‚Äôs a statistical advantage to leave it in for shots around the green.  
I image that after a few months an advantage will become apparent one way or another from looking at tour data.  I will do whichever seems to offer the statical advantage.

Edited by PingEye2, 02 September 2018 - 11:57 AM.


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#4 tjw018

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:58 AM

Definitely will be in for me, but I already play with it in when I am playing a quick AM practice round by myself....for me it's a lot easier to visualize the ball rolling in dead center.

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#5 hybrid25

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 12:00 PM

For our group we will probably leave it in for all long putts, but take it out for 10 ftish and in. I think if people leave the flag in it will save time on the golf course and speed up play. I would like to see people finish out their putt when it's their turn and not wait for a 2 ft longer to putt first. Of course if someone's lying is in the way wait till that person Parts, I'm not wanting to step on someone else's line.


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#6 Dr.Frankenputz

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 12:18 PM

Iíll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. Iím in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesnít walk off without it.

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#7 ChrisNH

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 01:00 PM

View Posthybrid25, on 02 September 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

I would like to see people finish out their putt when it's their turn and not wait for a 2 ft longer to putt first. Of course if someone's lying is in the way wait till that person Parts, I'm not wanting to step on someone else's line.
Since we can also tap down spike marks with the new 2019 rules I think stepping in somebody's line is a moot point. I'd like to see everybody putt everything out, unless of course it's a match play event or something.
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#8 PingEye2

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 01:06 PM

View PostChrisNH, on 02 September 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 02 September 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

I would like to see people finish out their putt when it's their turn and not wait for a 2 ft longer to putt first. Of course if someone's lying is in the way wait till that person Parts, I'm not wanting to step on someone else's line.
Since we can also tap down spike marks with the new 2019 rules I think stepping in somebody's line is a moot point. I'd like to see everybody putt everything out, unless of course it's a match play event or something.

Spike marks may not be an issue but the depression left by a large man is another story.  I’m 265#.  I doubt you want me stepping in your line

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#9 596

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 01:37 PM

View PostDr.Frankenputz, on 02 September 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

Iíll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. Iím in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesnít walk off without it.

Just a suggestion.  Always leave your club on the green between the hole and your cart.  You'd have to step on it to leave it.

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#10 Jasonic

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 02:33 PM

View PostPingEye2, on 02 September 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

View PostChrisNH, on 02 September 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 02 September 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

I would like to see people finish out their putt when it's their turn and not wait for a 2 ft longer to putt first. Of course if someone's lying is in the way wait till that person Parts, I'm not wanting to step on someone else's line.
Since we can also tap down spike marks with the new 2019 rules I think stepping in somebody's line is a moot point. I'd like to see everybody putt everything out, unless of course it's a match play event or something.

Spike marks may not be an issue but the depression left by a large man is another story.  Iím 265#.  I doubt you want me stepping in your line

Haha

Edited by Jasonic, 02 September 2018 - 02:33 PM.

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#11 bladehunter

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 07:53 PM

Out.  And itís going to irritate me when someone wants it left in .  And it will happen.
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#12 Hawkeye77

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 07:59 PM

Silly rule change, will have zero practical impact on pace of play, just a crutch to help putts go in.  Populism rules, some of the essence of the game disappears 1/1/19.

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#13 larrybud

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

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#14 pinhigh27

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.
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#15 PingEye2

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:04 PM

For people who play competitively everything is potentially a big deal.  I posted wondering about people’s strategy.  It’s the rules change that, to me, has the biggest impact on strategy that is coming next year.  That’s why I put it in the instruction forum rather than general golf talk.



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#16 PingEye2

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:07 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Hadn’t thought of that.  Potential to speed up the game but also potential to slow it down.  I’m going to want it in or out depending on however the statistical evidence indicates when in competition. In casual rounds whatever is fastest, which is probably leaving it in.

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#17 bladehunter

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:24 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.

Because it will slow down the group when they have to put it back in for the one guy everytime. Or do you expect the whole group to putt with it in ?
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#18 pinhigh27

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:32 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 September 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.

Because it will slow down the group when they have to put it back in for the one guy everytime. Or do you expect the whole group to putt with it in ?

People can do what they want. If you're so worried about what your competitors are doing and them keeping the flag in gets to you, you have already lost.
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#19 harolease

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:42 PM

I take it out when chipping and putting.
I find it a better visual to leave the stick in when lobbing or flopping or sand shots in general

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#20 BenHoganSlam1953

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:21 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 September 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.

Because it will slow down the group when they have to put it back in for the one guy everytime. Or do you expect the whole group to putt with it in ?

People can do what they want. If you're so worried about what your competitors are doing and them keeping the flag in gets to you, you have already lost.

A big part of the change is the theory it will speed up play ... however, in the (hopefully rare) event you have two guys who prefer it in - playing with two guys who prefer it out - it will definitely not speed up play ... for myself, I'll mix it up - but on days when the greens are wetter and putting with less break I'll definitely leave it in and nail the putt to the hole

Edited by BenHoganSlam1953, 02 September 2018 - 11:21 PM.

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#21 lchang

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:28 AM

I think the new rule could definitely slow things down. If I prefer it in, and you prefer it out and we are competing, why would either of us give in to the other person’s preference?

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#22 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:40 AM

View PostDr.Frankenputz, on 02 September 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

Iíll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. Iím in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesnít walk off without it.

I hate when people lay clubs on the flagstick, almost never are they the first to finish the hole so you have to toss their clubs off it all day long.
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#23 PingEye2

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:56 AM

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 03 September 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

View PostDr.Frankenputz, on 02 September 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

I’ll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. I’m in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesn’t walk off without it.

I hate when people lay clubs on the flagstick, almost never are they the first to finish the hole so you have to toss their clubs off it all day long.

Why wouldn’t you just hand them to them rather than toss them off? Most everyone I play with will, at least a couple of times a round, pick up others clubs.  Both to be polite and help assure none are left behind.

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#24 ChrisNH

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:07 AM

View PostPingEye2, on 02 September 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Spike marks may not be an issue but the depression left by a large man is another story.  I’m 265#.  I doubt you want me stepping in your line
Still not an issue.  A good portion of everyone who's played the hole before me has stepped on some part of my line, and plenty of them are jumbos.  I'd rather play a bit quicker than have everyone worry where tubby steps.
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#25 lchang

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:27 AM

View PostChrisNH, on 03 September 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

View PostPingEye2, on 02 September 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Spike marks may not be an issue but the depression left by a large man is another story.  I’m 265#.  I doubt you want me stepping in your line
Still not an issue.  A good portion of everyone who's played the hole before me has stepped on some part of my line, and plenty of them are jumbos.  I'd rather play a bit quicker than have everyone worry where tubby steps.

Well the counter argument here is that often some spike and shoe impressions take a few minutes to recover (at least under some green conditions). So the previous group stepping in your line 10 minutes earlier is no problem. But right before you putt can be troublesome.


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#26 Dave D

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:57 AM

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.

funny you say this, I was playing a foursomes match the other day, we were 2 up through 10, and on 11 one of the opponents had a par putt on a shot hole, putting from the fringe he left the flag in, now this putt had some heat on it and was easily going 6 foot by, hits the flag dead centre but pops back towards him. He can't believe it, starts damning his bad luck, blaming the flagstick etc. "it hit the flag dead centre" he proclaims. My partner then rolls our birdie putt from the fringe perfect weight that it kissed the centre of the flag as it dropped in. "how is that fair" he exclaimed. Clearly oblivious to the fact he was lucky they had a 1 inch bogey putt rather than 6 foot, from then on his head was gone and we thrashed them

I fear people may actually start putting worse if they just try and hit the flag firmly
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#27 bladehunter

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 09:16 AM

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 September 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postlarrybud, on 02 September 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

While I always leave it in for chips, my putting speed is much better so any advantage of having it in will be negated.

That said,  I do recall on one hole today where of the three of us,  the closest was maybe 30 feet.   I needed the pin tended,  and I would have putted with it in if there was no chance of penalty.  It took an extra minute or two with all the tended puns,  but overall mattered zero.

I can't wait for the first tourney I play and there will be one guy who always wants it in.  It will happen...  That will be fun...

Not sure why it's a big deal. And it's really only going to ever help. A putt should never have enough speed to bounce off flag and not go in hole.

Because it will slow down the group when they have to put it back in for the one guy everytime. Or do you expect the whole group to putt with it in ?

People can do what they want. If you're so worried about what your competitors are doing and them keeping the flag in gets to you, you have already lost.

Lol.  Iím not even talking competition.  Iím just talking the Sunday skins game.  Some jackwagon will insist on having the pin putt back in for his 20 footer everytime now. This will sow the group down a touch.  No huge deal. Just something to roll my eyes at.  

I donít suspect any real competition will include anyone who wants the flag left in in less is a terrible downhill putt.
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#28 PingEye2

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 09:33 AM

View PostChrisNH, on 03 September 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

View PostPingEye2, on 02 September 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Spike marks may not be an issue but the depression left by a large man is another story.  I‚Äôm 265#.  I doubt you want me stepping in your line
Still not an issue.  A good portion of everyone who's played the hole before me has stepped on some part of my line, and plenty of them are jumbos.  I'd rather play a bit quicker than have everyone worry where tubby steps.

I disagree,  the green ‚Äúrecovers‚ÄĚ over a few minutes but a heavy person, especially on a softer green, makes a depression that can affect a putt for a short period.

Edited by PingEye2, 03 September 2018 - 09:37 AM.


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#29 larrybud

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 10:00 AM

View PostPingEye2, on 03 September 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 03 September 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

View PostDr.Frankenputz, on 02 September 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

I’ll probably take it out anytime I bring a wedge to the green. I’m in the habit of laying my wedge across the stick so my dumba$$ doesn’t walk off without it.

I hate when people lay clubs on the flagstick, almost never are they the first to finish the hole so you have to toss their clubs off it all day long.

Why wouldn’t you just hand them to them rather than toss them off? Most everyone I play with will, at least a couple of times a round, pick up others clubs.  Both to be polite and help assure none are left behind.

Because I'm not their personal caddy, and I don't really want other people touching my stuff. I live by the same rules in golf as in life, don't touch another man's balls or shaft.  Works well in all situations.

Edited by larrybud, 03 September 2018 - 10:04 AM.


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#30 b.mattay

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 10:00 AM

Definitely going to take it out, especially with the thick flagsticks seen in my area. A putt going two feet by would bounce off the flag and not go in.


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