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Just found my source of back pain...


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#61 radiman

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:31 AM

 torbill, on 11 September 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

 radiman, on 07 September 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Update:

Went to an appointment with the pain management clinic.  Went over the MRI.  So, the disk between L5 and S1 is deteriorating and is beginning to put pressure on the nerve.  Explains the cause and location of my pain.  Also, noted some moderate arthritis.  Plan of attack is a cortisone injection to verify that is the issue.  If that improves my condition, I am not sure what will happen going forward as cortisone is a temporary fix.  Also going to begin PT.  Not a bad time to begin the treatments.  Once the off season hits, I can really focus on improving and strengthening my core without impacting my golf.  Hopefully, by the time next season rolls around I will be well on my way to managing this thing.

radiman, that is a bit of a different diagnosis from what I originally commented on, but I think that the management of the problem is the same.

Backs can be strange.  There are people with perfect back scans who are in terrible pain, and visa versa.  What I am saying is that there are plenty of people with terrible back pictures, from a disc standpoint, who do fine, and conservative treatment may still be the answer for you.  So, I would not panic just because there are anomalies in your back picture.

Many years ago I read a lot about back pain (and here I am talking about pain, and not drop foot, numbness, loss of bowel or bladder control, which are far more serious symptoms), and what to do.  Yoga was #1, providing more relief than pills, surgery, chiropractic, acupuncture, massage and other things that I canít think of at the moment.  My interpretation of this was that strengthening the core and maintaining flexibility are key to a healthy back, and you are already on to core and flexibility - good!  This has been a key, for me, over the years.  It is a thing that takes time to see results, but boy does it ever help.

The other thing is swing mechanics.  I thought of you as I was watching DeChambeau.  There is something in his swing that is of benefit to all of us with back problems.  Note his finish.  He is standing straight up, balanced and facing the target, weight on his front leg.  Do you finish this way?  Or, do you finish in a reverse-c? We hit into a reverse-c when we hold our head back, trying to stay behind the ball.  And hitting into a reverse-c takes a toll on the back, over time.  You can hit the ball a ton - and accurately - by letting the weight flow to the back leg on the backswing, then letting it all go forward to a level finish (hips, waist, shoulders all level and facing the target), with all of the weight on the front leg, with no attempt to hold the head back.  Stenson is another example.  I will predict that players like Stenson and deChambeau will play for many, many years without back issues because their swings are back-sparing.

Edit:  Oh, and why are your waiting until the off-season to start core work?  Get down on the floor and get going, just like the rest of us, grin...

Aside from basic planks and such. I'm planning on going back to squats, deadlifts, and such. After consulting with the physical therapist that is. Season end is literally weeks away. Don't want to spend my last few rounds limited in motion more than I already am.

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#62 radiman

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:38 AM

 Chowdah86, on 11 September 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

 radiman, on 30 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

My lower back has been a problem for the past two years.  I have just attributed it to getting a little older and tried strengthening my core.  That helped a bit to the point where my back hasn't gone out in a while.  But, I have continued to have soreness and stiffness with varying degrees of severeness.  Typically, when I get out of bed, it feels like my vertebrae are grinding a bit.  I am very stiff and it takes a while to loosen up.  That doesn't bode well for early morning tee times :)

I went into my dr to discuss it with him.  He recommended that I have an MRI to see what is actually going on.  Just got the call.  I guess I have arthritis in my back spread across multiple vertebrae.  What this means for me going forward is anyone's guess.  I have it in my right foot, and from my experience with that, I know this is not going to get any better.  At best, I may be able to prevent it's progression a bit, but it will eventually get worse.  While I know that things could be a lot worse, I can't help but feel a sense of hopelessness.  I always hoped things would improve.  Now, I find myself wondering what my golf game will look like 10 years from now.  My current situation already restricts my range of motion on the good days.  On the bad days, I just don't play.  I have a referral to a pain clinic.  I already know that I won't be going down the pain killer route.  I am hoping the modern miracle of medicine has some sort of new fancy treatment that will allow me to regain some of my range of motion.  My current swing is built around flexibility and the ability to hit the ball a long ways.  

Anyone else have any experience in this realm?  Maybe things aren't as bleak as I fear they will be.  I am only 36, so I have a lifetime of golf ahead of me, I hope...

If this isn't the best forum for the topic, I apologize.



Look man,

We only get one body, its the only thing in life that will have to sustain us for our entire existence on earth.  When this vessel of ours starts to break down, we cant trade it in for a new one.  Thats why we have to take good care of it.  Feed it good food, stretch it, rest it, exercise it, keep it in good working order.  Otherwise, youll be in a miserable existance as you get older.   Golf is a game that can be played many many ways.  The way that you are playing it now is wearing down your body.  I guarantee that its not worth it.   The good news, is that there are ways to play this fun little game without hurting out bodies.  There are swing techniques that will allow you to have fun, hit it far and shoot low scores.  I suggest you try to learn as much about these techniques as possible.  Work out a swing on the range that applies good speed, good strike, good path and good face angles through impact but does not hurt your lower back.  (Those are the only things the ball cares about btw)

Two tips on shearing the lower back:  

1) When your right shoulder dips and gets close to your right hip, this causes shearing of the lower vertebrae.  People (even pros) dip their right shoulder in order to get the path inside on the downswing.  You must keep those shoulders turning flatter.  There are other ways to get the path inside.  Swing down with your back to the target is one.    

2) Chase the ball out with your head like Dustin Johnson.  None of that reverse C crap from the 70's and 80's.


Take it easy on your body.  You've got plenty of days ahead, dont ruin them.

After my prednisone taper, my back felt great. My finish "feels" much like you describe. After contact, it felt like my back straightened and my head chased the ball as you say. All of my weight was on my left foot and I was in a pretty upright position. Now that the soreness is getting worse, which it has since I started this thread, I feel like my back doesn't have the strength or range of motion to get me there. Contact is suffering and swing feels out of sequence. I can feel exactly where that nerve is pressing in my lower back. I'm not in a reverse C. My follow through feels abbreviated and I can't really finish the swing. Just need to hang on for a few more weeks. After that, I can hit it hard and it won't matter how sore I am after working out. I wont need to plan my gym visits around my golfing schedule.

But, I'll be seeing the PT on Thursday and getting a cortisone injection on Monday. I feel good about attacking this issue head on.
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#63 Chowdah86

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:47 AM

 radiman, on 11 September 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

 Chowdah86, on 11 September 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

 radiman, on 30 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

My lower back has been a problem for the past two years.  I have just attributed it to getting a little older and tried strengthening my core.  That helped a bit to the point where my back hasn't gone out in a while.  But, I have continued to have soreness and stiffness with varying degrees of severeness.  Typically, when I get out of bed, it feels like my vertebrae are grinding a bit.  I am very stiff and it takes a while to loosen up.  That doesn't bode well for early morning tee times :)

I went into my dr to discuss it with him.  He recommended that I have an MRI to see what is actually going on.  Just got the call.  I guess I have arthritis in my back spread across multiple vertebrae.  What this means for me going forward is anyone's guess.  I have it in my right foot, and from my experience with that, I know this is not going to get any better.  At best, I may be able to prevent it's progression a bit, but it will eventually get worse.  While I know that things could be a lot worse, I can't help but feel a sense of hopelessness.  I always hoped things would improve.  Now, I find myself wondering what my golf game will look like 10 years from now.  My current situation already restricts my range of motion on the good days.  On the bad days, I just don't play.  I have a referral to a pain clinic.  I already know that I won't be going down the pain killer route.  I am hoping the modern miracle of medicine has some sort of new fancy treatment that will allow me to regain some of my range of motion.  My current swing is built around flexibility and the ability to hit the ball a long ways.  

Anyone else have any experience in this realm?  Maybe things aren't as bleak as I fear they will be.  I am only 36, so I have a lifetime of golf ahead of me, I hope...

If this isn't the best forum for the topic, I apologize.



Look man,

We only get one body, its the only thing in life that will have to sustain us for our entire existence on earth.  When this vessel of ours starts to break down, we cant trade it in for a new one.  Thats why we have to take good care of it.  Feed it good food, stretch it, rest it, exercise it, keep it in good working order.  Otherwise, youll be in a miserable existance as you get older.   Golf is a game that can be played many many ways.  The way that you are playing it now is wearing down your body.  I guarantee that its not worth it.   The good news, is that there are ways to play this fun little game without hurting out bodies.  There are swing techniques that will allow you to have fun, hit it far and shoot low scores.  I suggest you try to learn as much about these techniques as possible.  Work out a swing on the range that applies good speed, good strike, good path and good face angles through impact but does not hurt your lower back.  (Those are the only things the ball cares about btw)

Two tips on shearing the lower back:  

1) When your right shoulder dips and gets close to your right hip, this causes shearing of the lower vertebrae.  People (even pros) dip their right shoulder in order to get the path inside on the downswing.  You must keep those shoulders turning flatter.  There are other ways to get the path inside.  Swing down with your back to the target is one.

2) Chase the ball out with your head like Dustin Johnson.  None of that reverse C crap from the 70's and 80's.


Take it easy on your body.  You've got plenty of days ahead, dont ruin them.

After my prednisone taper, my back felt great. My finish "feels" much like you describe. After contact, it felt like my back straightened and my head chased the ball as you say. All of my weight was on my left foot and I was in a pretty upright position. Now that the soreness is getting worse, which it has since I started this thread, I feel like my back doesn't have the strength or range of motion to get me there. Contact is suffering and swing feels out of sequence. I can feel exactly where that nerve is pressing in my lower back. I'm not in a reverse C. My follow through feels abbreviated and I can't really finish the swing. Just need to hang on for a few more weeks. After that, I can hit it hard and it won't matter how sore I am after working out. I wont need to plan my gym visits around my golfing schedule.

But, I'll be seeing the PT on Thursday and getting a cortisone injection on Monday. I feel good about attacking this issue head on.


Sounds like you are listening to your body, which is good.  Like Tiger said, Play away from the pain.

Another thing regarding the follow through: bounce right out of it.   We are taught at a young age to hold the follow through as it prevents from overswinging and losing balance.  But in the interest of saving your back, allow yourself to bounce right out of it.  Take a look at Phil Mickelson, (a guy with a very long career).  He doesn't hold that finish, he bounces right out of it.  In his final position, he is facing the target, holding the club down by his waste, like a sword.  Like I said, there are many ways to play great golf.

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#64 mgoblue83

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:06 PM

Hey Brother I'm a bit late to the party here but PLEASE avoid injections or meds until you have exhausted all other options. They do relieve pain but they do NOT fix anything.

Also, practically everyone over age 30 is going to show some kind of degeneration of the back in an MRI. Do not get discouraged with your diagnosis because it will happen to almost everyone who isn't taking specific steps to avoid it. (Stretching, strengthening, yoga, walking, keeping your core strong and tight etc..)

Unless there is an acute injury back pain develops from neglect over a long period of time but it IS reversible. Consistent PT and a dedication to following through with the exercises and stretches at home goes a long way. Once it starts feeling better just remember that if you stop doing the necessary things the pain will come back.

I'm 35 with a "bad" back caused from years of heavy lifting while ignoring stretching and core strength. If I stay on top of my PT stretches (mostly hamstring, glute, hip flexor, and quad stretches), core exercises, and stay active I'm pain free and feel great but if I let myself get lazy for even a week the stiffness and soreness comes back with a vengeance. The good news is that all the stretching and core exercises have helped my golf game tremendously so I enjoy doing them.

Good luck man, stay positive and work hard!

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#65 chigolfer1

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:12 PM

 radiman, on 30 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

My lower back has been a problem for the past two years.  I have just attributed it to getting a little older and tried strengthening my core.  That helped a bit to the point where my back hasn't gone out in a while.  But, I have continued to have soreness and stiffness with varying degrees of severeness.  Typically, when I get out of bed, it feels like my vertebrae are grinding a bit.  I am very stiff and it takes a while to loosen up.  That doesn't bode well for early morning tee times :)

I went into my dr to discuss it with him.  He recommended that I have an MRI to see what is actually going on.  Just got the call.  I guess I have arthritis in my back spread across multiple vertebrae.  What this means for me going forward is anyone's guess.  I have it in my right foot, and from my experience with that, I know this is not going to get any better.  At best, I may be able to prevent it's progression a bit, but it will eventually get worse.  While I know that things could be a lot worse, I can't help but feel a sense of hopelessness.  I always hoped things would improve.  Now, I find myself wondering what my golf game will look like 10 years from now.  My current situation already restricts my range of motion on the good days.  On the bad days, I just don't play.  I have a referral to a pain clinic.  I already know that I won't be going down the pain killer route.  I am hoping the modern miracle of medicine has some sort of new fancy treatment that will allow me to regain some of my range of motion.  My current swing is built around flexibility and the ability to hit the ball a long ways.  

Anyone else have any experience in this realm?  Maybe things aren't as bleak as I fear they will be.  I am only 36, so I have a lifetime of golf ahead of me, I hope...

If this isn't the best forum for the topic, I apologize.

Sorry to hear this.  Have you looked into things that reduce inflammation?  Tumeric and boswellia for instance would be a good first step.


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#66 radiman

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:18 AM

 mgoblue83, on 12 September 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Hey Brother I'm a bit late to the party here but PLEASE avoid injections or meds until you have exhausted all other options. They do relieve pain but they do NOT fix anything.

Also, practically everyone over age 30 is going to show some kind of degeneration of the back in an MRI. Do not get discouraged with your diagnosis because it will happen to almost everyone who isn't taking specific steps to avoid it. (Stretching, strengthening, yoga, walking, keeping your core strong and tight etc..)

Unless there is an acute injury back pain develops from neglect over a long period of time but it IS reversible. Consistent PT and a dedication to following through with the exercises and stretches at home goes a long way. Once it starts feeling better just remember that if you stop doing the necessary things the pain will come back.

I'm 35 with a "bad" back caused from years of heavy lifting while ignoring stretching and core strength. If I stay on top of my PT stretches (mostly hamstring, glute, hip flexor, and quad stretches), core exercises, and stay active I'm pain free and feel great but if I let myself get lazy for even a week the stiffness and soreness comes back with a vengeance. The good news is that all the stretching and core exercises have helped my golf game tremendously so I enjoy doing them.

Good luck man, stay positive and work hard!

Physical therapy starts today. The injection is to reduce the pain on a temporary basis. I'm hoping that the physical therapist will make some recommendations on what I should be doing in they gym. For the time it takes for the cortisone injection to wear off, I'm hoping to have my back in a better place. I'm not quite sure what they can do when the disk is actually pressing on the nerve though.
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#67 radiman

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 11:53 AM

Just had my PT appointment.  He confirmed the issue seems to be disk related.  So, a few things to note.  He recommended against an inversion table.  At least while the issue is bothering me.  According to him, the disk is inflamed.  Using an inversion table will create separation that will only allow the disk to become further inflamed.  His thoughts on an inversion table were that it seems to help more with muscle issues (if I remember correctly).  He said that my current stretches are being approached incorrectly.  I will stretch and hold.  While great for muscles, not so great for my disk in it's current state.  Much like his advice against the inversion table, it will only allow my disk to become further inflamed.  

What he recommended was a pretty basic list of stretches that I will use to compress and decompress the disk allowing for more blood flow so it can heal itself.  He is all for the cortisone injection to allow the inflammation to go down.  Coupled with the daily use of these disk compression decompression exercises, I should expect that the disk will heal over time.  Hopefully, there will be no need for any further injections once this first one wears off.  

Since it's not a muscular issue, there wasn't a lot of exercises to go over.  He said to continue to do my normal gym routine which includes squats and deadlifts.  His only recommendation was to consider doing less weight with higher reps to not put as much stress on the disk.  He said to continue to golf, continue to stay active, and to just be a little more aware of my back pain.  If it hurts, stop.
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#68 ddetts

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:17 PM

 radiman, on 13 September 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Just had my PT appointment.  He confirmed the issue seems to be disk related.  So, a few things to note.  He recommended against an inversion table.  At least while the issue is bothering me.  According to him, the disk is inflamed.  Using an inversion table will create separation that will only allow the disk to become further inflamed.  His thoughts on an inversion table were that it seems to help more with muscle issues (if I remember correctly).  He said that my current stretches are being approached incorrectly.  I will stretch and hold.  While great for muscles, not so great for my disk in it's current state.  Much like his advice against the inversion table, it will only allow my disk to become further inflamed.  

What he recommended was a pretty basic list of stretches that I will use to compress and decompress the disk allowing for more blood flow so it can heal itself.  He is all for the cortisone injection to allow the inflammation to go down.  Coupled with the daily use of these disk compression decompression exercises, I should expect that the disk will heal over time.  Hopefully, there will be no need for any further injections once this first one wears off.  

Since it's not a muscular issue, there wasn't a lot of exercises to go over.  He said to continue to do my normal gym routine which includes squats and deadlifts.  His only recommendation was to consider doing less weight with higher reps to not put as much stress on the disk.  He said to continue to golf, continue to stay active, and to just be a little more aware of my back pain.  If it hurts, stop.

Interested to hear what stretches he recommended you do or keep doing? Are they related to the McKenzie method?

Also, FWIW there's a lot of research that suggests bulging/herniated discs can heal so I wouldn't feel like pressure on the nerve is permanent and there's nothing you can do. I'll echo what others have said about injections - while they may offer some temporary relief, there's a lot of evidence that they do a lot more long term damage compared with the short term benefit to pain relief. I'd explore all available (NSAIDs, muscle relaxers, ice/heat) options before going that route.
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#69 radiman

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:31 PM

 ddetts, on 13 September 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

 radiman, on 13 September 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Just had my PT appointment.  He confirmed the issue seems to be disk related.  So, a few things to note.  He recommended against an inversion table.  At least while the issue is bothering me.  According to him, the disk is inflamed.  Using an inversion table will create separation that will only allow the disk to become further inflamed.  His thoughts on an inversion table were that it seems to help more with muscle issues (if I remember correctly).  He said that my current stretches are being approached incorrectly.  I will stretch and hold.  While great for muscles, not so great for my disk in it's current state.  Much like his advice against the inversion table, it will only allow my disk to become further inflamed.  

What he recommended was a pretty basic list of stretches that I will use to compress and decompress the disk allowing for more blood flow so it can heal itself.  He is all for the cortisone injection to allow the inflammation to go down.  Coupled with the daily use of these disk compression decompression exercises, I should expect that the disk will heal over time.  Hopefully, there will be no need for any further injections once this first one wears off.  

Since it's not a muscular issue, there wasn't a lot of exercises to go over.  He said to continue to do my normal gym routine which includes squats and deadlifts.  His only recommendation was to consider doing less weight with higher reps to not put as much stress on the disk.  He said to continue to golf, continue to stay active, and to just be a little more aware of my back pain.  If it hurts, stop.

Interested to hear what stretches he recommended you do or keep doing? Are they related to the McKenzie method?

Also, FWIW there's a lot of research that suggests bulging/herniated discs can heal so I wouldn't feel like pressure on the nerve is permanent and there's nothing you can do. I'll echo what others have said about injections - while they may offer some temporary relief, there's a lot of evidence that they do a lot more long term damage compared with the short term benefit to pain relief. I'd explore all available (NSAIDs, muscle relaxers, ice/heat) options before going that route.

I am not sure about the McKenzie method.  These are pretty basic movements.  He did state that these types of disk issues can heal.  These exercises are designed to increase blood flow to the disk, which should improve my chances of the disk healing.  

Edit: after a quick search on the McKenzie method, it would appear that they, at least, very similar.

Edited by radiman, 13 September 2018 - 02:36 PM.

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#70 mgoblue83

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:11 PM

Always keep in mind that you are having disc issues for a REASON. Either an acute injury or muscular imbalance over time. (From what you described this is not an acute injury)

The PT is right that "exercises" won't directly help the disc but they are so important for addressing the imbalances you have. Your spine is supported on all sides by many different muscle groups and you absolutely must strengthen the weak ones and stretch the tight ones or you will have recurring pain.

In fact, high quality PT exercises rarely focus only on the injured area. The body is so connected that even something as simple as a tight calf muscle can put dramatically more pressure on the lower back. You need to be asking your PT to evaluate and treat the REASON you have a disc issue and not the disc itself.

Edited by mgoblue83, 13 September 2018 - 06:12 PM.


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#71 baudi

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 02:54 PM

NOT a PT myself but did you consider the use of gravity boots?

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#72 radiman

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:03 PM

 baudi, on 14 September 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

NOT a PT myself but did you consider the use of gravity boots?

The boots you hang on a bar to hang yourself upside down?  I think that would be in the same realm as an inversion table, which he was against at this point.  Said that would possibly cause more inflammation in the disk.
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#73 baudi

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:30 PM

Yes similar idea- thanks for your reply. Good to know.  
Good luck with your back anyway.

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#74 radiman

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:01 PM

 baudi, on 14 September 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yes similar idea- thanks for your reply. Good to know.  
Good luck with your back anyway.

Thanks man.  I am sure they have their uses. Just not in my particular case.

On a side note, I find that these stretches are tougher than they sound.  Repeatedly putting pressure on the trouble are, even just for a short time, seems to make it feel pretty sore.  But, on the plus, it seems to keep me a little looser throughout the day.
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#75 ddetts

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:38 AM

 radiman, on 14 September 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

 baudi, on 14 September 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yes similar idea- thanks for your reply. Good to know.  
Good luck with your back anyway.

Thanks man.  I am sure they have their uses. Just not in my particular case.

On a side note, I find that these stretches are tougher than they sound.  Repeatedly putting pressure on the trouble are, even just for a short time, seems to make it feel pretty sore.  But, on the plus, it seems to keep me a little looser throughout the day.

If you're going to continue with McKenzie method, I'd recommend buying and reading How to Treat Your Own Back. There was a fair amount in there that my PT never explained or didn't explain as well as the book.

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#76 radiman

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:42 AM

 ddetts, on 15 September 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

 radiman, on 14 September 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

 baudi, on 14 September 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yes similar idea- thanks for your reply. Good to know.  
Good luck with your back anyway.

Thanks man.  I am sure they have their uses. Just not in my particular case.

On a side note, I find that these stretches are tougher than they sound.  Repeatedly putting pressure on the trouble are, even just for a short time, seems to make it feel pretty sore.  But, on the plus, it seems to keep me a little looser throughout the day.

If you're going to continue with McKenzie method, I'd recommend buying and reading How to Treat Your Own Back. There was a fair amount in there that my PT never explained or didn't explain as well as the book.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out.
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#77 VanSwagger83

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 06:03 PM

1st and foremost, I feel bad for what you're going through (I'm in somewhat of a similar situation with on and off back pain).  I would suggest looking up and following "MoveU" (Official, maybe*?) or google MoveU Method, and follow those guys on social media, they have lots of information, about all kinds of different injuries.  I don't want to speak out of turn, but I wouldn't be surprised if you've got some bad advice (not my place to say I don't know your specific situation, and I'm certainly not a Doctor or PT/Chiro.)

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#78 radiman

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 08:41 PM

 VanSwagger83, on 23 September 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

1st and foremost, I feel bad for what you're going through (I'm in somewhat of a similar situation with on and off back pain).  I would suggest looking up and following "MoveU" (Official, maybe*?) or google MoveU Method, and follow those guys on social media, they have lots of information, about all kinds of different injuries.  I don't want to speak out of turn, but I wouldn't be surprised if you've got some bad advice (not my place to say I don't know your specific situation, and I'm certainly not a Doctor or PT/Chiro.)

Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm just about a week removed from my injection. I definitely feel better overall. I played yesterday and noticed that I felt pretty good until the last few holes. Then it hit me. Spent the rest of the day icing it down. I hope that the cortisone hasn't completely kicked in as it can take 7-10 days. I'm a little concerned about the PT prescribed stretches. It really seems to put a lot of pressure on that disk which feels like it's pressing even more on that nerve. It almost feels like it is making it worse. But, if I still have inflammation, that would explain why. If that cortisone still stands to improve things, hopefully it will get better. I have a follow-up appointment with the PT this week. I'll see what he says.
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#79 kongo

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 02:19 PM

Someone might have already mentioned this, but you are NOT what your MRI says. If you look at stats, a vast majority of guys (something like 80%) of guys from 35-45 will show disc degeneration or some other issue in their spine. Barring something serious, your MRI is not a death knell. Chiropractic is ONE (small) piece of a larger puzzle. Your doc - I can pretty much guarantee this - will have probably no clue how to address your orthopedic or bio-mechancal issues. You need to find a qualified PT, someone who can show you what your movement faults are, and figure out how to get the right muscles and joints working together.
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#80 cmckelvmi

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 03:09 PM

 bdcava, on 30 August 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

Read Dr. John Sarno. If you have an open mind there’s a good chance it will help if not completely eliminate your pain.

I thought I had severe back pain during my 20s and would need to lay down like Larry Bird. I read Dr. John Sarno's book and it was a light bulb moment, no more back pain!


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#81 mgoblue83

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 02:44 PM

If your PT says that because it's a disc issue you don't need to do any muscular stretching or strengthening it's time to find a new PT. As I said above, the reason you have a disc issue is muscular imbalance. For most guys that means our legs and hips are too tight and our core is too weak. Addressing the muscular imbalances is the only way to relieve pressure on the disc so that it will actually heal.

This is not something you can be lazy about and expect some meds and a shot to fix it.

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#82 VanSwagger83

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

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#83 kongo

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM

View PostVanSwagger83, on 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

Dr. Stu McGill is the foremost guru on lower back pain. I would find anything and everything from him and read, implement - birddogs, deadbugs, etc... those will help a LOT if you do them well and consistently. (I say this not as a golfer only, but also as an amateur powerlifter who is constantly stressing the lower back).
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#84 radiman

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 02:59 PM

View Postkongo, on 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostVanSwagger83, on 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

Dr. Stu McGill is the foremost guru on lower back pain. I would find anything and everything from him and read, implement - birddogs, deadbugs, etc... those will help a LOT if you do them well and consistently. (I say this not as a golfer only, but also as an amateur powerlifter who is constantly stressing the lower back).

I was looking at some of the reviews on this book.  Looks very interesting. I have another appointment with the PT tomorrow.  If it doesn't go well, I am done with them.  I will start shopping around to see if there are any better PT's in town.  In the meantime, this book may offer me the information I need to treat this without having to jump around from professional to professional.
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#85 kongo

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 06:09 PM

View Postradiman, on 26 September 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

View Postkongo, on 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostVanSwagger83, on 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

Dr. Stu McGill is the foremost guru on lower back pain. I would find anything and everything from him and read, implement - birddogs, deadbugs, etc... those will help a LOT if you do them well and consistently. (I say this not as a golfer only, but also as an amateur powerlifter who is constantly stressing the lower back).

I was looking at some of the reviews on this book.  Looks very interesting. I have another appointment with the PT tomorrow.  If it doesn't go well, I am done with them.  I will start shopping around to see if there are any better PT's in town.  In the meantime, this book may offer me the information I need to treat this without having to jump around from professional to professional.

I do know that Dr. McGill stresses NOT Dr. Stuart McGill, recommends waiting at least an hour after waking up before engaging in any exercise that includes trunk flexion/extension of the spine, as your discs hold more water when you wake up, making them susceptible to bulge.


Check out this podcast: https://blog.humanos...-stuart-mcgill/
These articles: http://www.backfitpr...k_exercises.pdf
http://www.backfitpr...-Feb-story-.pdf

Hope that gets you started!

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#86 kongo

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 06:18 PM

View Postkongo, on 26 September 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

View Postradiman, on 26 September 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

View Postkongo, on 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostVanSwagger83, on 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

Dr. Stu McGill is the foremost guru on lower back pain. I would find anything and everything from him and read, implement - birddogs, deadbugs, etc... those will help a LOT if you do them well and consistently. (I say this not as a golfer only, but also as an amateur powerlifter who is constantly stressing the lower back).

I was looking at some of the reviews on this book.  Looks very interesting. I have another appointment with the PT tomorrow.  If it doesn't go well, I am done with them.  I will start shopping around to see if there are any better PT's in town.  In the meantime, this book may offer me the information I need to treat this without having to jump around from professional to professional.

I do know that Dr. McGill stresses NOT Dr. Stuart McGill, recommends waiting at least an hour after waking up before engaging in any exercise that includes trunk flexion/extension of the spine, as your discs hold more water when you wake up, making them susceptible to bulge.


Check out this podcast: https://blog.humanos...-stuart-mcgill/
These articles: http://www.backfitpr...k_exercises.pdf
http://www.backfitpr...-Feb-story-.pdf

Hope that gets you started!

I just found this!  A podcast where Dr. McGill is speaking about golf!

https://18strong.com/stuart-mcgill/
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#87 skraly

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 06:35 PM

View Postradiman, on 26 September 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

View Postkongo, on 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostVanSwagger83, on 25 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also should've mentioned in my prior post, a good book to check out is Dr Stu McGill's Back Mechanic.  My biggest takeaway from that book was to stop doing the motions that are causing the back to flare up - which means sometimes being a little more thoughtful about how we pick something up off the ground, maybe even bracing the core when you do pick stuff off the ground for example.

Dr. Stu McGill is the foremost guru on lower back pain. I would find anything and everything from him and read, implement - birddogs, deadbugs, etc... those will help a LOT if you do them well and consistently. (I say this not as a golfer only, but also as an amateur powerlifter who is constantly stressing the lower back).
I can highly recommend Dr. McGill’s book from personal experience.

I was looking at some of the reviews on this book.  Looks very interesting. I have another appointment with the PT tomorrow.  If it doesn't go well, I am done with them.  I will start shopping around to see if there are any better PT's in town.  In the meantime, this book may offer me the information I need to treat this without having to jump around from professional to professional.


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#88 radiman

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 06:03 PM

A minor update:

After two weeks the cortisone injection seems to have been a failure. It seemed to help a great deal. I waited a few days until my back felt a great deal better. It felt great, until I started up on the PT movements I was initially prescribed. I was uncomfortable after my morning round of stretches. The backwards arch of the back really put a lot of pressure in that area. After two days of those, I stopped doing them as they only seemed to make the situation worse. I have played 1.5 rounds of golf since the injection. The back felt good for most of the first round. By the 18th hole it was pretty tender though. When I played 9 holes this past Thursday, it was business as usual. Like I never even had the injection. Now I am back to square one it would seem.

Daily activities seem ok, up until I arch my back backwards. Then I get the sharp pains I have had. The muscles in my back lossened up, but the pain in my spine remains. If anything, I seem to know exactly what movements/positions make it worse. I am really going to have to focus on changing my swing to get rid of the reverse C type position as best I can. It doesn't take a lot of bend to make it hurt.

The PT has me working on core strength at the moment and I think I'm just going to have to live with it as it is. Things just don't seem to be improving like I'd hoped. I realize it's still early in the process. I was just hoping this shot would take the pressure off that nerve as I improved my stability so I could avoid this going forward.
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#89 salmon2

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 09:37 AM

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of "Back Mechanic" by Stuart McGill.  Hope your situation improves.

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#90 radiman

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 10:14 AM

View Postsalmon2, on 04 October 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of "Back Mechanic" by Stuart McGill.  Hope your situation improves.

I listened to the podcast that was posted earlier yesterday.  I have to say, it was like he was speaking directly to me.  The onset of this issue kind of coincides with my adoption of deadlifts into my workouts last year.  I threw my back out once (which wasn't all that uncommon) but never really felt like I gained back all of my mobility.  I knew my back would be a bit sore at the beginning of the season as it always is after a long winter.  But, it typically gets better the more golfing I do.  This year was different, and it took me listening to his thoughts to really notice and pinpoint the correlation.  

His thoughts on disk fibers being trained to handle twisting vs load bearing.  So, according to him, my injury may be a product of my disk fibers being forced to do something so far out of what they have been "trained" to do, that it tore some fibers.  

I plan on picking up the book.  What I have read on him and heard from him in that podcast leads me to believe that he would be a great source of knowledge in dealing with this.

Edited by radiman, 04 October 2018 - 10:14 AM.

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