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How many "regular" PGA wins equal a "major" win?


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#61 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:26 PM

View Postbigred90gt, on 22 August 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View Postplaya, on 22 August 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

If you polled every professional on tour, 100% would take two majors over 6 wins. Hell they would all take one major. 2 majors is automatic poty.
And that is insane to me. If I'm playing professionally, I'm playing because I love golf and I'm planning my retirement. 6 wins gets me a lot closer to that goal than 2 majors.



You win 2 majors or 6 other tournaments (excluding some of the "also ran" tournaments) and the money will be pouring in either way from sponsorships and the like. Either option sets you up for a nice retirement.


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#62 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:00 PM

View Postgvogel, on 22 August 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

I disagree.  Even great players get really nervous for majors, and they may choke in majors.

I would say 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 for tour wins vs. majors.  People remember majors - it is the single most important statistic that we use to rank players.

Now you might say, Andy North only won 3 times, two were majors.  And I say, we remember Andy North for that.  We don't remember JC Snead, Dave Barr or Dennis Watson, guys who also won tournaments but finished second to North in the US Open.
Does an Andy North winning two majors prove or disprove that the odds are still about the same. Tiger has won about 20% of his majors. Same with Jack at 22% in his first 19 years(through age 40).  Hmm, That is quite similar to their normal run rate is it not?  Which is the angle I look at it from.  Most players-certainly not all see North and Micheel and Moody-  will win majors about as often as other events.  If it was truly that much more difficult to win a major how do some of these guys win a major and nothing or very little else?  

The USGA used to advertise that they were trying to "identify the best player" with their US Open set up.  If that truly were the case they would not have any random winners. Their setups like at Shinnecock just increase randomness into the equation.
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#63 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:09 PM

View Postevgolfer, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.
So a Doug Sanders would give up his 20 wins to have a career of Micheel or Moody? one win which just happened to be a major. You think he would prefer the one win career?
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#64 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:11 PM

In every sport there are always going to outliers, those guys who catch lightning in a bottle for one small stretch and never do anything after. That doesn't negate the value of the event or accomplishment in general.

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#65 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:12 PM

View PostJabbathePutt, on 22 August 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

I'm not sure why people throw Darren Clarke's name around with guys like Hamilton and Micheel. He won 14 times on the European Tour and made 5 consecutive Ryder Cup teams. Oh and in 2000 he beat Tiger (in his prime) 4&3 to win the match play.
Because he won one major which means he is below Andy North in the all time greats.**


**According to some-certainly not me. But it did get Andy an announcing career so there is that.

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#66 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:17 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.


Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.


People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.



Use that rationale and try to get into the Hall of fame. Then let me know how delusional it is.  


A major is not the same. If it were everyone would eventually win one.  The setup to the atmosphere is not the same. Not to mention it's the only evens outside the players where the fields aren't padded by 60 no names trying to make a check and keep a card.
:)  Why would everyone win one? Everyone does not win a tour event period. If they are so difficult how do we get guys ranked so low winning majors?
https://en.wikipedia..._Cooper_(golfer)

https://en.wikipedia...Macdonald_Smith
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#67 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:59 PM

View PostShilgy, on 22 August 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:



So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.


Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.


People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.



Use that rationale and try to get into the Hall of fame. Then let me know how delusional it is.  


A major is not the same. If it were everyone would eventually win one.  The setup to the atmosphere is not the same. Not to mention it's the only evens outside the players where the fields aren't padded by 60 no names trying to make a check and keep a card.
:)  Why would everyone win one? Everyone does not win a tour event period. If they are so difficult how do we get guys ranked so low winning majors?
https://en.wikipedia..._Cooper_(golfer)

https://en.wikipedia...Macdonald_Smith

Seriously, someone doesn't understand the concept of outliers as it pertains to sports.

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#68 Vardon Grip

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:59 PM

If you haven't figured it out, the correct number is 3.5 wins = 1 major.

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#69 rangersgoalie

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 05:48 PM

View Postevgolfer, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.

20 wins for me fwiw
Lifetime exemption.....financial stability over that period of 20 wins.....and beating everybody 20freaking times!

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#70 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 08:00 PM

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 22 August 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:



So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.


Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.


People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.



Use that rationale and try to get into the Hall of fame. Then let me know how delusional it is.  


A major is not the same. If it were everyone would eventually win one.  The setup to the atmosphere is not the same. Not to mention it's the only evens outside the players where the fields aren't padded by 60 no names trying to make a check and keep a card.
:)  Why would everyone win one? Everyone does not win a tour event period. If they are so difficult how do we get guys ranked so low winning majors?
https://en.wikipedia..._Cooper_(golfer)

https://en.wikipedia...Macdonald_Smith

Seriously, someone doesn't understand the concept of outliers as it pertains to sports.
So you agree with the post I replied to? That every event except the majors and Players has 60 players just "padding the field"? That's what makes the majors so valuable?

If majors are so valuable, worth 10 regular wins, why are there 2 time majors winners not in?
Zoeller
Stockton
Janzen*
North
Daly*
Cabrera*

* Doubting these with two will get in.

Look at the all time win list versus the all time majors list. If majors were so valuable and hard to win went are they not even more heavily tilted to the superstars? Why are there so many random winners? Could it be because the total win list is more by merit than selecting four events that show a more random type of winner?

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#71 hook_or_slice

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:22 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.



Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.



People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.




Use that rationale and try to get into the Hall of fame.  Then let me know how delusional it is.  


A major is not the same. If it were everyone would eventually win one.  The setup to the atmosphere is not the same. Not to mention it’s the only evens outside the players where the fields aren’t padded by 60 no names trying to make a check and keep a card.
Yes ,the answer right now is 7.5 regular tour wins equals one Major.
It used to be 5.

The reason why this is the answer : to be considered for induction into the World Golf Hall of Fame you need 15 tour wins OR 2 Majors.

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#72 playa

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:26 PM

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have
Same as tennis. I defy anyone to name a player who won a non grand slam event last year.

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#73 DavePelz4

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 12:43 PM

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

In every sport there are always going to outliers, those guys who catch lightning in a bottle for one small stretch and never do anything after. That doesn't negate the value of the event or accomplishment in general.

Didn't Rich Beem win the old International in 2002 and then a week or two later win the PGA?  Lightning in a bottle...yes.

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#74 Darth Putter

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:24 PM

View Postplaya, on 22 August 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have
Same as tennis. I defy anyone to name a player who won a non grand slam event last year.

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#75 chippa13

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:27 PM

Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring so I guess that means Brady's 5 rings aren't all that impressive.


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#76 FootWedge16

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:37 PM

View Postchippa13, on 23 August 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring so I guess that means Brady's 5 rings aren't all that impressive.

It also means he's a better QB than Dan Marino, right?

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#77 chippa13

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:41 PM

Outliers, people, outliers.

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#78 hook_or_slice

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:01 PM

The PGA tour defines it as 5.
Win a Major.....5 year exemption.
Win a regular tournament.. 1 year exemption, each additional win in a year gets an additional year exemption.

Edited by hook_or_slice, 23 August 2018 - 04:02 PM.


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#79 Shilgy

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:19 PM

View Posthook_or_slice, on 23 August 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

The PGA tour defines it as 5.
Win a Major.....5 year exemption.
Win a regular tournament.. 1 year exemption, each additional win in a year gets an additional year exemption.
That would be two years and additional wins get you an extra win up to five years total.

Winners of PGA TOUR co-sponsored or approved tournaments, whose victories are considered official, within the last two seasons, or during the current season; winners receive an additional season of exemption for each additional win, up to five seasons:
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#80 Darth Putter

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:23 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 23 August 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 23 August 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring so I guess that means Brady's 5 rings aren't all that impressive.

It also means he's a better QB than Dan Marino, right?

Does this mean Joe Flacco is Andy North?

Is Andy North elite?

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#81 cdnglf

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:34 PM

View PostShilgy, on 23 August 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

View Posthook_or_slice, on 23 August 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

The PGA tour defines it as 5.
Win a Major.....5 year exemption.
Win a regular tournament.. 1 year exemption, each additional win in a year gets an additional year exemption.
That would be two years and additional wins get you an extra win up to five years total.

Winners of PGA TOUR co-sponsored or approved tournaments, whose victories are considered official, within the last two seasons, or during the current season; winners receive an additional season of exemption for each additional win, up to five seasons:

Also:
3 year exemption for Arnold Palmer, Memorial, or a WGC.
5 year exemption for the Players.

So I guess the Players really is the fifth major....

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#82 Barfolomew

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:36 PM

Time is the greatest leveler of what holds up....like sports resumes, cars, movies, companies, shoe size, politics etc...

Best guys to answer this would be the Champion tour guys.... cause they know what holds up over time and who ranks where amongst themselves based on majors vs reg wins.
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#83 nbg352

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 04:48 PM

Four....The answer is four. Did I win?
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#84 cbutcher1547

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 05:05 PM

I wonder how many "regular" -(not limited to PGA Tour)- wins Lee Westwood and Colin Montgomerie would give back in favor of a major.

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#85 Vardon Grip

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 07:52 PM

View Postcbutcher1547, on 23 August 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

I wonder how many "regular" -(not limited to PGA Tour)- wins Lee Westwood and Colin Montgomerie would give back in favor of a major.

None, the pay for a regular win is too  good to give it up multiple 1sts for one.


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#86 puttingmatt

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 08:26 PM

Zero, majors are the only thing anyone remembers. Regular events are not equal.
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#87 bscinstnct

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

View Postcbutcher1547, on 23 August 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

I wonder how many "regular" -(not limited to PGA Tour)- wins Lee Westwood and Colin Montgomerie would give back in favor of a major.

Westy and Monty major quest like



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#88 Shilgy

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 10:28 PM

View Postputtingmatt, on 23 August 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

Zero, majors are the only thing anyone remembers. Regular events are not equal.
Are you sure about that? How many events did Nelson win in a row in '45? How many total?  Without looking it up what year did Bruce Crampton win the Open?

:)

Edited by Shilgy, 23 August 2018 - 10:28 PM.

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#89 Johnnypenso

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 10:59 PM

Which team has been the  winner of the most regular season games the most times in the NHL regular season?  NBA?  NFL?  MLB?  MLS?  Few people would know outside of hardcore statisticians.  But even casual NHL fans know the Canadiens have the most Stanley Cups and casual baseball fans will know the Yankees have the most World Series wins.  Championships are in a category all by themselves and deservedly so.  The most pressure, facing the best prepared and best players of the season, 4 times, winner take all.  Sure there have been some oddball winners but given a long period of time, the greats always shine brightest in the majors.  No amount of regular season wins compares to winning a major.

Edited by Johnnypenso, 23 August 2018 - 11:00 PM.


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#90 KrazyTrain18

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 11:15 PM

I don't think you can really come up with a number.  There are certain tournaments that are a little more "prestigious" than others but a win is still a win.  Majors are in another category for me and that's coming from somebody who does agree that the media tends to overrate the majors sometimes.

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