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How many "regular" PGA wins equal a "major" win?


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#31 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:58 AM

View Postcdnglf, on 22 August 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

I can understand if someone thinks the ratio is 2-1, 3-1, 4-1.
But 10-1? How does that make sense?

There's a group of maybe 50 elite players who play all 4 majors in a year. Those guys play 20-25 events per year. Majors are <=20% of their schedule.
A lot of rank and file guys play one or no majors. Those guys play about 25 events per year, sometimes more. Majors are <=4% of their schedule.
Overall, the majors are 4 events out of more than 40. About $45M out of $350M+ in total purse (not counting Fedex bonus money). Sure, they're the most important events. But so important that the other 90% of the season is irrelevant?

Cause


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#32 gvogel

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:00 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

I disagree.  Even great players get really nervous for majors, and they may choke in majors.

I would say 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 for tour wins vs. majors.  People remember majors - it is the single most important statistic that we use to rank players.

Now you might say, Andy North only won 3 times, two were majors.  And I say, we remember Andy North for that.  We don't remember JC Snead, Dave Barr or Dennis Watson, guys who also won tournaments but finished second to North in the US Open.
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#33 FootWedge16

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

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#34 evgolfer

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.

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#35 FootWedge16

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:11 PM

View Postevgolfer, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.

Would I trade 20 tour wins for 1 major? Would you rather be Luke Donald or Shaun Micheel?


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#36 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

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#37 FootWedge16

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.



Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.



People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.



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#38 DavePelz4

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:17 PM

If Tiger Woods won 2 majors this year and zero regular events is this even a conversation?

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#39 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:18 PM

Ahhh, I see what you did there.

View PostDavePelz4, on 22 August 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

If Tiger Woods won 2 majors this year and zero regular events is this even a conversation?

He'd definitely have comeback player of the year.

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#40 Kjboisen

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:20 PM

View Postmanku, on 22 August 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Lots of talk right now about POY on PGAtour....here is a linky from today:  https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2018/08/22/pga-tour-2018-player-of-the-year-brooks-koepka-not-over.html

PGA players seems to think that it is about 2-1, at least for POY.  However, if you read what posters on this forum say, it seems more like 5-1.  

What do most people think...I'd say it's about 4-1.  Maybe 3-1 if they were the Players and two WGC or high profile events.

5 Regular event wins = 1 Major

Important to place a high value on this Majors, its what will keep them hype


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#41 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:22 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

View Postevgolfer, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.

Would I trade 20 tour wins for 1 major? Would you rather be Luke Donald or Shaun Micheel?

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#42 gflo

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:25 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

Brooks Koepka has won 11 professionnals tournaments (2 US open, 1 PGA champ', 1PGA tour, 1 ET tour, 4 Challenge tour, 2 Japan golf tour) People will say some are minor wins but they are not that minor when you begin a carreer and discover big stages...
A win is a win.
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#43 Buzzkill

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:28 PM

20 for me!

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#44 JabbathePutt

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:38 PM

I'm not sure why people throw Darren Clarke's name around with guys like Hamilton and Micheel. He won 14 times on the European Tour and made 5 consecutive Ryder Cup teams. Oh and in 2000 he beat Tiger (in his prime) 4&3 to win the match play.
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#45 Darth Putter

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:50 PM

Brooks Koepka has already mathematically clinched the PGA Player of the Year which is a points system. You get 30 points for a major and a 50 point bonus for winning two.

There is also PGA Tour Player of the Year which is voted on by the players.

The last time a player won two majors and did not win POY was Jack Nicklaus in 1980. He won the US Open and PGA. Tom Watson won 6 official events: San Diego, Los Angeles, T of C, New Orleans, Byron Nelson and the World Series. He also won the British Open an unofficial event at the time. There was no points system, the winner was selected by the PGA of America. I can't find any newspaper or magazine articles from the time, so I don't known how controversial it was.

So as the wise old owl once said, "three."   maybe

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#46 new2g0lf

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:53 PM

I agree with other posters, it depends on the tournament.  I'd say 6-1 in early season tournaments and those that follow a Major and 3-1 in others.
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#47 evgolfer

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:57 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

View Postevgolfer, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you were a tour player at the end of your career who never won a major, but had 20 tour wins, would you trade them all for just one major?

How many tour wins would Tiger trade for 5 more major wins? How many would he trade for just three more putts falling at Bellerive?

Winning a major means near eternal flame and glory or something like it amongst pro golfers. Winning the Waste Management Open or any other regular tour event I'm sure is a great high for a pro, but in no way compares to a major.

As far as player of the year, I'd rank multiple major winner ahead of a multiple tour event winner.

Would I trade 20 tour wins for 1 major? Would you rather be Luke Donald or Shaun Micheel?

I knew as I wrote this, someone would throw out the name of some one-hit wonder, and here it is.

I think if you have a career without a major win, or one major and then not much else, you are going to have regret looking back at your career. So, point taken.

I'd still value a major considerably higher than regular tour events.

The answer to your question: I would gladly take the career of either. To compete as a tour pro would be a joy in itself.

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#48 cdnglf

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 22 August 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

Brooks Koepka has already mathematically clinched the PGA Player of the Year which is a points system. You get 30 points for a major and a 50 point bonus for winning two.

There is also PGA Tour Player of the Year which is voted on by the players.

The last time a player won two majors and did not win POY was Jack Nicklaus in 1980. He won the US Open and PGA. Tom Watson won 6 official events: San Diego, Los Angeles, T of C, New Orleans, Byron Nelson and the World Series. He also won the British Open an unofficial event at the time. There was no points system, the winner was selected by the PGA of America. I can't find any newspaper or magazine articles from the time, so I don't known how controversial it was.

So as the wise old owl once said, "three."   maybe

Faldo won 2 majors in 1990. He won PGA PotY but didn't win PGA Tour PotY. He only played 7 PGA Tour events that year, so presumably he wasn't a member.

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#49 tcbrewba

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:00 PM

For someone else to have beaten Koepka for POY, I think he'd have needed 7 or 8 non-major wins.

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#50 bladehunter

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:07 PM

View PostShilgy, on 22 August 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

10-15 probably in my opinion.  Definitely has to be 9 at lowest
Really? So Andy North had a better career than Monty?  Or Weiskopf?

View PostJohnnyCashForever, on 22 August 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

View Postjohnseg, on 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors.

Just take this to the logical extreme to see if it holds water.  Would you place someone who wins 12 tournaments over a player who wins the grand slam?

#BKisPOY
The player with the Slam would win POY for certain.  But which player truly played better that year?  It is a lot more difficult to win 12 events than 4.

No absolutes. But picking a guy like Andy north doesn’t really make the point. Monty for example did much Much more than win regular events. From Ryder cup to how many majors he contended in. Nobody said what makes one career worth more than another. Just asked how many wins a major is worth.  


Maybe I should amend my opinion and say that more than 1 major multiples that players major values x10 ,  a single major could be a fluke. But 2 is never that.  2 in 1 year should be player of the year almost automatically.  No matter if JT wins 7 events.

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#51 bladehunter

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:12 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postchippa13, on 22 August 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.

Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.

People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.

So your strategy is to keep saying the same thing over and over again and hope to brow beat those who disagree into submission?

This seems silly. They aren't different categories.



Majors are just golf tournaments and people decided to consider them "majors" at some point in the past. There is nothing inherently special about them. They have strong fields, just like The Players, WGC events, Bay Hill, etc.



People here trying to argue they outweigh other tour wins by 10 to 1 are absolutely delusional.




Use that rationale and try to get into the Hall of fame.  Then let me know how delusional it is.  


A major is not the same. If it were everyone would eventually win one.  The setup to the atmosphere is not the same. Not to mention it’s the only evens outside the players where the fields aren’t padded by 60 no names trying to make a check and keep a card.
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#52 egr2teup

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:20 PM

This is not the exact answer the OP is looking for but John Feinstein said last year that winning a major was worth $30M in future earnings to a player. A PGA Tour win was worth $3M.

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#53 dlygrisse

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:25 PM

If you win 20 "regular events" in a career and no majors people will say you are an underacheiver and can't perform under pressure.  

If you win 3 majors and 1 tour event then people will say you are one of the best players of a generation.  

History loves winners.  Especially major winners.  I'd say the ratio is 10-1



I will add that if you win one major (see Sergio) then it validates your career....so if you win one major and 20 events you are now in the HOF.  You really don't move to all-time elite status until you win 5 or more majors.  Phil, Seve etc.

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#54 TMfan54

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:53 PM

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#55 Bye

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:07 PM

If it’s a player of the year conversation then someone is going to need to win at least 5 times with 2 of them being high profile events like the players or a wgc if they are up against a double major winner. I still think that 2 majors in a year is a lock for player of the year.

Career wise, one major is like 10-15 regular tour events IMO.




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#56 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:14 PM

If you take the top 5 pga tour winners in history, divide their total wins (360) by total majors (55), and you get


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#57 bigred90gt

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:15 PM

View Postplaya, on 22 August 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:


If you polled every professional on tour, 100% would take two majors over 6 wins. Hell they would all take one major. 2 majors is automatic poty.
And that is insane to me. If I'm playing professionally, I'm playing because I love golf and I'm planning my retirement. 6 wins gets me a lot closer to that goal than 2 majors.

View PostFootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

I agree with this. To think Keopka has had a better career than DJ to date is just mind numbing. Even this year, with his two majors, what else did he do the rest of the year? I know he was out injured for a bit, but how many events did he play and what kind of finishes did he have? Vs how many events did DJ play and what kind of finishes did he have?

I get that majors are a big deal, and I enjoy watching them for the spectacle that they are (aside from the PGA, which to me is just like every other week of the year), but that's as far as it goes for me.

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#58 nicoy3k

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:19 PM

I’d Patrick Reed or Molinari win the FedEx cup are they player of the year?

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#59 MarkFromTheUK

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

Nothing equals a major win. Don’t ever let Mrs Doubtfire tell you otherwise.
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#60 joey2aces

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

zero.zero

Edited by joey2aces, 22 August 2018 - 02:23 PM.

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