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How many "regular" PGA wins equal a "major" win?


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#1 manku

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:33 AM

Lots of talk right now about POY on PGAtour....here is a linky from today:  https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2018/08/22/pga-tour-2018-player-of-the-year-brooks-koepka-not-over.html

PGA players seems to think that it is about 2-1, at least for POY.  However, if you read what posters on this forum say, it seems more like 5-1.  

What do most people think...I'd say it's about 4-1.  Maybe 3-1 if they were the Players and two WGC or high profile events.


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#2 GolfAddict01

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:40 AM

Winning two majors in the same year should get somebody into poy talk regardless of play in other tourneys
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#3 johnseg

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM

Tough call for me. I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors. Of course that depends on the wins as well. If your wins are at the Barracuda Championship, Barbasol Championship and Puerto Rico Open and maybe a couple in the "silly season" it isn't the same as winning a WGC, Bay Hill, the Memorial etc.

As others have said winning two majors in one season definitely puts you in POY talks.

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#4 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

"You win two majors, you've got it. It's not real complicated," said Woods, who has won the award a record 11 times, before expanding a bit. "It was very similar to what DD went through in '98, with Marko winning two major championships, I think that trumps—what, DD won four times that year. I think two majors trumps it."

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#5 disco111

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

How many regular PGA tour wins equal a major?...................................Hummmm how about "O"............Folks will remember a major winner for years, but they most likely could not tell you who won the John Deer last year.........


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#6 playa

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:53 AM

View Postjohnseg, on 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

Tough call for me. I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors. Of course that depends on the wins as well. If your wins are at the Barracuda Championship, Barbasol Championship and Puerto Rico Open and maybe a couple in the "silly season" it isn't the same as winning a WGC, Bay Hill, the Memorial etc.

As others have said winning two majors in one season definitely puts you in POY talks.
If you polled every professional on tour, 100% would take two majors over 6 wins. Hell they would all take one major. 2 majors is automatic poty.

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#7 FootWedge16

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

Edited by FootWedge16, 22 August 2018 - 09:58 AM.


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#8 cdnglf

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:57 AM

View Postjohnseg, on 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

Tough call for me. I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors. Of course that depends on the wins as well. If your wins are at the Barracuda Championship, Barbasol Championship and Puerto Rico Open and maybe a couple in the "silly season" it isn't the same as winning a WGC, Bay Hill, the Memorial etc.

As others have said winning two majors in one season definitely puts you in POY talks.

Agree with this. It isn't a completely fair comparison because some guys split time between the PGA and Europe, but 6-win seasons are much rarer and more difficult than 2-major seasons.

Tiger has done both several times.

Other than that the last 6+ win seasons are: Vijay 9 in 2004, Price 6 in 1994, and Watson 7 in 1980.
Koepka, Rory, and Spieth have each won 2 majors in just the last 5 years. Also, since 1980: Harrington, O'Meara, Price, Faldo, Watson and Jack.

Not too often that someone wins a 6+ and none of them are majors, though. I think Johnny Miller in 1974 might be the most recent.

Edited by cdnglf, 22 August 2018 - 10:00 AM.


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#9 JL1

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:13 AM

2 wins is never better than 1 major win.

For POY consideration I would say 3 wins tops 1 major, but for career achievement I'd say it takes almost 10 wins to beat winning 1 major. Not money wise, perhaps, but for prestige it would matter. Anyone who doubts this should consider that Tom Lehman, Ken Green and Dan Forsman all have the same number of tour wins and are all born within a year or very close to that of each other. Only one of them is known to most golfers and that is the one who won a major - Tom Lehman.

Roberto DiVincenzo and Gardner Dickinson were born within a year or so of each other. They have the same number of tour wins. Many golfers know the name DiVincenzo (perhaps mostly for how he lost another major, but none the less) but couldn't tell you who Gardner Dickinson is.

Here are two groups of players born in close proximity and all have about the same number of tour wins. Group A - Jason Dufner, Stewart Cink, Henrik Stenson and Jimmy Walker. Group B - Rory Sabbatini, Jonathan Byrd, Carl Petterson. In 20 years casual sports  fans will not recall any of the Group B players unless they win a major real quick.

Edited by JL1, 22 August 2018 - 10:16 AM.


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#10 johnseg

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:20 AM

View PostJL1, on 22 August 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

2 wins is never better than 1 major win.

For POY consideration I would say 3 wins tops 1 major, but for career achievement I'd say it takes almost 10 wins to beat winning 1 major. Not money wise, perhaps, but for prestige it would matter. Anyone who doubts this should consider that Tom Lehman, Ken Green and Dan Forsman all have the same number of tour wins and are all born within a year or very close to that of each other. Only one of them is known to most golfers and that is the one who won a major - Tom Lehman.

Roberto DiVincenzo and Gardner Dickinson were born within a year or so of each other. They have the same number of tour wins. Many golfers know the name DiVincenzo (perhaps mostly for how he lost another major, but none the less) but couldn't tell you who Gardner Dickinson is.

Here are two groups of players born in close proximity and all have about the same number of tour wins. Group A - Jason Dufner, Stewart Cink, Henrik Stenson and Jimmy Walker. Group B - Rory Sabbatini, Jonathan Byrd, Carl Petterson. In 20 years casual sports  fans will not recall any of the Group B players unless they win a major real quick.
I would argue that if you are not a multiple major winner that it doesn't even matter when looking at legacy. I didn't even remember that Cink won the Open until you put his name in that group. Same with the others. Players that get remembered are the all timers not a guy that got hot one week. I don't think of Fred Couples as a Master's Champion but more for his overall play.


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#11 imakaveli

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:21 AM

None, nobody cares about money grabbing events.

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#12 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:23 AM

It also depends on the player.

Arnie has 65 PGA Tour wins. Never won a PGA Championship. Came in 2nd, 3 times. How many wins would be trade for just on PGA Championship and the career grand slam. I imagine like 10 or 15.

And Tom Watson, same, how many wins for one PGA and the career grand slam?

And finally, our good friend Phil,

43 PGA Tour wins. Came in 2nd at 6 US Opens. I bet he gives up at least 10 wins for just one US Open.

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#13 DavePelz4

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:24 AM

View Postdisco111, on 22 August 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

How many regular PGA tour wins equal a major?...................................Hummmm how about "O"............Folks will remember a major winner for years, but they most likely could not tell you who won the John Deer last year.........

Heck people can't even remember how to spell John Deere yet alone remember who won it.

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#14 Cwebb

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:29 AM

I don't think any amount of regular wins equals a major.  They are different categories.

Similar to other sports, where no amount of regular wins, equals a playoff series win or championship.  A team could have several really good regular seasons, but if they don't do well in the playoffs or win a championship, then it's not at the same level of achievement as the others who have

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#15 Railroading13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:34 AM

I would rather have 4 tour wins than 1 major. Consider Shaun Micheel or Todd Hamilton. No one considers them better players than say Monty.

So to answer the OPís question, I would say 3

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#16 MattyO1984

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:37 AM

So the organisation which awards the player of the year and is responsible for all of the lesser events but none of the greater events is running an article making the lesser out as more important than they are...

Next they will be telling us that The Players is the fifth major and the Presidents Cup is up there with the Ryder Cup...oh wait...
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#17 JohnnyCashForever

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:41 AM

View Postjohnseg, on 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors.

Just take this to the logical extreme to see if it holds water.  Would you place someone who wins 12 tournaments over a player who wins the grand slam?

#BKisPOY

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#18 rangersgoalie

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:42 AM

Never heard of “best player without a multi win season”  :)

Majors have ay more weight, unless you’re john Daly, or some other player not deemed “worthy”

Hell, Koepka has won three majors and there are some saying he’s incomplete due to not having enough
Regular wins.....

So to answer the OP   It depends :)

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#19 c7015

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:42 AM

I want to say like 5-6 but in reality, no amount of regular wins replace a major ... just ask the people in the tiger vs jack thread
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#20 duffer987

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:44 AM

View PostMattyO1984, on 22 August 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

So the organisation which awards the player of the year and is responsible for all of the lesser events but none of the greater events is running an article making the lesser out as more important than they are...

Next they will be telling us that The Players is the fifth major and the Presidents Cup is up there with the Ryder Cup...oh wait...
Bingo. Take this guy's opinion - as quoted earlier already - and call it a day

Quote

“You win two majors, you've got it,” 11-time PGA TOUR Player of the Year Tiger Woods said in his press conference at Ridgewood on Tuesday. “It's not real complicated.”

That linked article is basically a promotional advert for the PGA Tour's contrived 'playoffs'.


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#21 blaird

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:50 AM

 JL1, on 22 August 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

2 wins is never better than 1 major win.

For POY consideration I would say 3 wins tops 1 major, but for career achievement I'd say it takes almost 10 wins to beat winning 1 major. Not money wise, perhaps, but for prestige it would matter. Anyone who doubts this should consider that Tom Lehman, Ken Green and Dan Forsman all have the same number of tour wins and are all born within a year or very close to that of each other. Only one of them is known to most golfers and that is the one who won a major - Tom Lehman.

Roberto DiVincenzo and Gardner Dickinson were born within a year or so of each other. They have the same number of tour wins. Many golfers know the name DiVincenzo (perhaps mostly for how he lost another major, but none the less) but couldn't tell you who Gardner Dickinson is.

Here are two groups of players born in close proximity and all have about the same number of tour wins. Group A - Jason Dufner, Stewart Cink, Henrik Stenson and Jimmy Walker. Group B - Rory Sabbatini, Jonathan Byrd, Carl Petterson. In 20 years casual sports  fans will not recall any of the Group B players unless they win a major real quick.

I dont necessarily remember Lehman for winning that one British. I remember him more for not winning the 2 or 3 US Opens the years before. He was in the last group or tied for the lead late on Sunday and couldnt win one. Guys who are amongst the leaders a lot in their career tend to get remembered more so than someone who has a couple wins and one of those is a major. Thats why Sergio winning the Master's didnt change him or his status in my opinion.

I agree majors are important but in the other thread I argued they arent the true definition of a persons career or greatness. I would rather have Stricker's career over Hamilton, Micheel, Clarke, Michael Campbell, and so on. Those 4 have a major and Stricker doesnt but whos name are you going to remember.

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#22 bscinstnct

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:53 AM

 duffer987, on 22 August 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

 MattyO1984, on 22 August 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

So the organisation which awards the player of the year and is responsible for all of the lesser events but none of the greater events is running an article making the lesser out as more important than they are...

Next they will be telling us that The Players is the fifth major and the Presidents Cup is up there with the Ryder Cup...oh wait...
Bingo. Take this guy's opinion - as quoted earlier already - and call it a day

Quote

“You win two majors, you've got it,” 11-time PGA TOUR Player of the Year Tiger Woods said in his press conference at Ridgewood on Tuesday. “It's not real complicated.”

That linked article is basically a promotional advert for the PGA Tour's contrived 'playoffs'.

The article that I posted features TWs opinion that majors are far more important than any other events. If anything, it downplayed the importance of the playoffs (or any other event) relative to majors.

Edited by bscinstnct, 22 August 2018 - 10:54 AM.


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#23 RobS14526

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:03 AM

POTY seems a bit contrived for the PGA Tour. Majors are an award in and of themselves. The PGA Tour POTY is the guy who wins the most money for the season.

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#24 bladehunter

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:07 AM

10-15 probably in my opinion.  Definitely has to be 9 at lowest
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#25 chippa13

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:12 AM

 FootWedge16, on 22 August 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

One thing is for sure. People care WAY too much about majors. There is nothing inherently special about them. They are just tour events that have strong fields.

In fact, I think there are a number of people on this forum that would rather have Koepka's career (4 wins and 3 majors) than Dustin Johnson's career (19 wins and 1 major). Which is completely ridiculous.

Personally, I'd say majors are worth 1.5-2 high profile tour wins (Players, WGC, etc). Otherwise, I'd say they're worth 2-3 wins. However, even that is probably giving majors way too much love.

Majors typically have the strongest fields (Players and possibly a WGC or two could compete there) and majors also typically have some of the toughest conditions/layouts/etc.

Again, I said typically so please don't everyone go all crazy over the time or two that weather or such made the conditions of a singular major much easier than usual.


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#26 msd71

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:18 AM

Looking at the hard numbers, a major win is 600 fedex points, and a regular win is 500 fedex points.  Therefore, 6/5th of a regular event.  

(No, I don't really believe this.)

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#27 Shilgy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:23 AM

 bladehunter, on 22 August 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

10-15 probably in my opinion.  Definitely has to be 9 at lowest
Really? So Andy North had a better career than Monty?  Or Weiskopf?

 JohnnyCashForever, on 22 August 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 johnseg, on 22 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

I like to see guys dominate. So I would put a 6 win guy ahead of a guy with two majors.

Just take this to the logical extreme to see if it holds water.  Would you place someone who wins 12 tournaments over a player who wins the grand slam?

#BKisPOY
The player with the Slam would win POY for certain.  But which player truly played better that year?  It is a lot more difficult to win 12 events than 4.
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#28 duffer987

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:28 AM

 bscinstnct, on 22 August 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

 duffer987, on 22 August 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

 MattyO1984, on 22 August 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

So the organisation which awards the player of the year and is responsible for all of the lesser events but none of the greater events is running an article making the lesser out as more important than they are...

Next they will be telling us that The Players is the fifth major and the Presidents Cup is up there with the Ryder Cup...oh wait...
Bingo. Take this guy's opinion - as quoted earlier already - and call it a day

Quote

“You win two majors, you've got it,” 11-time PGA TOUR Player of the Year Tiger Woods said in his press conference at Ridgewood on Tuesday. “It's not real complicated.”

That linked article is basically a promotional advert for the PGA Tour's contrived 'playoffs'.

The article that I posted features TWs opinion that majors are far more important than any other events. If anything, it downplayed the importance of the playoffs (or any other event) relative to majors.
I'm talking about the OP.

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#29 KirkNo-yes

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:44 AM

this is such a subjective question. I would say it depends on WHAT tournaments were won, how many, how close together, strength of field.

If someone rattles off 3 wins early in the year then doesn't do much the rest then meh.

if someone wins two in the beginning at let's say Riviera, Torrey Pines then wins Lets say a WGC event later plus has 5 top tens across the year then I would give that serious consideration to POY.

If someone wins three fall events and has 5 top 10s thru the year...Meh.

If someone wins the Players, a WGC and a weaker field event like Colonial then maybe, depends how dominant the wins were.


For the most part though two majors over 3- 4wins is going to take POY in my book.

I know someone said we put too much emphasis on majors...While I understand the SOF argument but the importance is being able to PEAK that week and if they weren't that big of a deal why is it then that the Greats of the game seemed to peak those weeks and dominate or win. Majors ARE tougher than regular events outside of maybe the Players. There are only 4 majors so it shows the skillset difference when a player can go out and win that one week.  If they weren't that big of a deal then a player that wins a major should win every week or we should see more "Field" players winning majors, which we don't.  

The only sport to me that has "majors" that really isn't that different than every other week is NASCAR.
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#30 cdnglf

cdnglf

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

I can understand if someone thinks the ratio is 2-1, 3-1, 4-1.
But 10-1? How does that make sense?

There's a group of maybe 50 elite players who play all 4 majors in a year. Those guys play 20-25 events per year. Majors are <=20% of their schedule.
A lot of rank and file guys play one or no majors. Those guys play about 25 events per year, sometimes more. Majors are <=4% of their schedule.
Overall, the majors are 4 events out of more than 40. About $45M out of $350M+ in total purse (not counting Fedex bonus money). Sure, they're the most important events. But so important that the other 90% of the season is irrelevant?

Edited by cdnglf, 22 August 2018 - 11:55 AM.


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