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i500 and i210 MPF - not good


86 replies to this topic

#1 asumnerdawg

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:09 AM

MPF rated the i500 with a score of 188 and i210 at 338.  These are both WAY below even the iblade at 430. I was hoping they’d both be more forgiving than my i200’s (474), but not according to these numbers.  Not then end all but thought it was interesting.

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#2 wrmiller

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

I stopped by a PGA superstore the other day to try both. But they only had one each in black dot.

My iBlades are +.5" and white dot. Needless to say I didn't hit either very well. Managed a few good shots, but they were the exception.

I'm not a numbers kind of guy, but given that experience I think I'll be sticking with my iBlades for a bit longer. ;)
I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people, I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the situation resolve itself.

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#3 iteachgolf

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

MPF is essentially useless

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#4 DaveMac

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

High VCoG is causing the extremely low Playiability Factor.

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#5 Big Ben

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:29 AM

What the hell is MPF?

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#6 iteachgolf

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:29 AM

View PostDaveMac, on 12 August 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

High VCoG is causing the extremely low Playiability Factor.

Same reason he ranked Cleveland blades as game improvement irons and significantly easier to hit than Adams OS hybrid irons.  Like I said his rating is worthless

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#7 dmeeksDC

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:30 AM

Have not hit the 500 but any rating that shows the i200 as unforgiving is not a real world measurement. I find MPF to be useless.

Most of my favorite clubs have low MPF ratings. A low MPF score seems to be a mark of excellence. It also rated the Vapor Pro Combos and MP5 as too difficult to play. Ridiculous.

MPF is a set of static measurements that spit out a number. It seems unable to account for all the internal ways and computer-allotted weight distribution that designers are using these days to make clubs very forgiving.
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#8 SwingMan

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

I've not looked at MPF when purchasing an iron -- I demo and see if the club fits my game. MPF also does not account for bounce/grind. You have a lot of advocates saying the numbers work, but has MPF been amended over the years as design ideas have changed? Or is it someone's idea of their factors of forgiveness that sometimes does not apply in the real world? Dunno. Don't really want to know. Seems like a marketing gimmick.
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#9 PT1911

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 12:11 PM

With those numbers, MPF is proving to be bogus. I have i500’s and have hit them side by side with iblades, and I can tell you the i500 is much more forgiving.
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#10 lawsonman

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 05:56 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 12 August 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

MPF is essentially useless

Wish I could like this more than once.

Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#11 br61

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 06:45 PM

View Postlawsonman, on 12 August 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 12 August 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

MPF is essentially useless

Wish I could like this more than once.

Ha, me too! I forgot about that MPF until now, it's a big joke. Haven't looked at it for years, maybe in last decade.

I've hit both i500 and i210, I like them both and don't find them hard to hit at all.
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#12 Arpeggi

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:36 PM

Nothing interesting about useless numbers from a bogus system.
Current bag:
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#13 300_yard_drives

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:42 PM

I think MPF isn't completely useless but you cannot use it to determine if a club is very difficult to hit but only for the very forgiving on the mpf list I generally agree with.

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#14 Frisco Kid

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:47 PM

Yeah I’ve scratched my head more than a couple of times when looking at MPF...
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#15 Bimmer1

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 03:54 AM

Apex CF16’s have a crappy rating too and they are great irons.


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#16 Newc

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 09:30 AM

I think MPF is only useful for finding out the MOI of irons which will give you a little bit of an idea of the forgiveness.  Other than that the math really doesn't add up in my experience.

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#17 Lobber

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

MPF=My Partner Is Flatulent

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#18 Darth_Blader

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 10:43 AM

My Product is Fantastic!

If you see all of the Maltby irons #s , they are in the SUPER DUPER category. I will say measuring the OEM iron's COG/MOI is good info! Then he does some wack-a-doodle math and figures his iron's numbers.

More like Mystical Polynomial Formula?
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SMSync#>SM6 50F.DG.S400
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#19 20six

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 12:01 PM

MPF = Marketing Ploy Failure for Maltby

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#20 Cwebb

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 12:12 PM

They both have a sweetspot that is higher than the center of a golf ball.  This makes them harder to hit solid on a consistent basis, especially from tighter lies, for most players.

The i500 is at .940" and the i200 is at .913" .  The center of a golf ball is .840".  With their sweet-spots being that high, it makes them much more difficult to hit in the 'vertical aspect' for what determines solid contact,.... which is getting the sweetspot (COG) of the head design below the center of the ball


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#21 Scottyrocket

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 12:41 PM

View PostCwebb, on 13 August 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

They both have a sweetspot that is higher than the center of a golf ball.  This makes them harder to hit solid on a consistent basis, especially from tighter lies, for most players.

The i500 is at .940" and the i200 is at .913" .  The center of a golf ball is .840".  With their sweet-spots being that high, it makes them much more difficult to hit in the 'vertical aspect' for what determines solid contact,.... which is getting the sweetspot (COG) of the head design below the center of the ball

I don't really understand this. Does that mean that you would have to cover the ball more than usual to hit the sweet spot? Why would Ping raise this number up? What type of golfer is this designed for?

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#22 nova6868

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 01:34 PM

The issue here is that Maltby places a high value on VCOG when determining the MPF. He will give low MPF every time for high VCOG regardless of other variables.

The i210 and i500 have very high MOI ratings. The i500 has an MOI as high as the PING G irons!

However, I would be curious to hear what PING says about the creeping VCOG. Are they doing it for a reason? It should lower launch and increase spin, right?

Their VCOG is about 1/10th of an inch above the center of the golf ball. Doesn't sound like much, but I would imagine some golfers would struggle with hitting the sweet spot consistently. But again, maybe PING did this on purpose to increase spin or something.

Here is the trend:


Posted Image

Edited by nova6868, 13 August 2018 - 01:45 PM.


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#23 juststeve

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 01:49 PM

A higher VCOG works well for a player who has his hands ahead of the ball at impact, ie. has forward shaft lean.  Irons designed as players irons have a higher VCOG than game improvement irons.

Steve

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#24 dog flog

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 11:31 PM

i500 gets 368 MPF points less than the Cleveland 588 MB, a game improvement blade you may remember from another page of Maltby's files.
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#25 JMH1220

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 12:11 PM

I know a lot of people scoff at MPF which is fine.  But when I have demoed numerous clubs over the years I find MPF to be quite accurate for me.  Subjective?


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#26 tobiasjd

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 12:35 PM

View Postnova6868, on 13 August 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

The issue here is that Maltby places a high value on VCOG when determining the MPF. He will give low MPF every time for high VCOG regardless of other variables.

The i210 and i500 have very high MOI ratings. The i500 has an MOI as high as the PING G irons!

However, I would be curious to hear what PING says about the creeping VCOG. Are they doing it for a reason? It should lower launch and increase spin, right?

Their VCOG is about 1/10th of an inch above the center of the golf ball. Doesn't sound like much, but I would imagine some golfers would struggle with hitting the sweet spot consistently. But again, maybe PING did this on purpose to increase spin or something.



From what I've read the i210s spin slightly less.  Very similar overall.
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#27 iteachgolf

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:33 PM

View PostJMH1220, on 14 August 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

I know a lot of people scoff at MPF which is fine.  But when I have demoed numerous clubs over the years I find MPF to be quite accurate for me.  Subjective?

So Cleveland 588 blade is easier to hit than Adams OS Hybrid?   There’s plenty other ridiculous comparisons I could make

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#28 kiwihacker

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 02:41 PM

View PostDaveMac, on 12 August 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

High VCoG is causing the extremely low Playiability Factor.

Can someone explain what VCoG is and why it affects the playability?

Thanks
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#29 Cwebb

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:23 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 14 August 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

View PostJMH1220, on 14 August 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

I know a lot of people scoff at MPF which is fine.  But when I have demoed numerous clubs over the years I find MPF to be quite accurate for me.  Subjective?

So Cleveland 588 blade is easier to hit than Adams OS Hybrid?   There's plenty other ridiculous comparisons I could make

Just because a head design is larger in overall size or with a bigger cavity back, does not necessarily mean that it will be easier to hit.

Sweet-spot (COG) location in relation to the "ground line" is a big factor in how easy to hit an iron will be, from normal turf conditions. (not teed up)

Many large iron designs are also taller in face height, which is a very influential aspect for the height of the sweet-spot....more so than the width of the sole.  Lots of these larger irons end up with sweet-spots that are higher than the center of a golf ball, which makes them harder to hit solid consistently for most players.

Many assume that most classic blades through history have a higher COG.  This isn't always true when we look at some of the most popular blade designs.  For example...

Mizuno Mp-33: .718"
Mizuno Mp-14: .687"
Mizuno MP-32: .750"

Titliest 870: .749"
Titleist 680: .754"
Titleist 690: .735"

Clevaland 588mb: .749"

Going way back....Hogan Apex: .676"   Hogan Director: .713"

Contrast these sweetspot heights (AVCOG) with some much larger designs...

The Tommy Armour Ti-100 is one of the largest cavity backs ever and it has a sweet-spot height of .986".  Designs like this are very difficult to hit solid from normal and tighter lie conditions, despite the fact that they have a huge MOI.

How much "room there is to work with" vertically between the sweet-spot and the center of the ball, is very influential in how easy an iron is to hit for most players.  With the center of a golf ball being .840", a design with a sweet-spot that is higher than that and over .900" is harder to hit....regardless of the overall size of the head

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#30 Cwebb

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:33 PM

View Postkiwihacker, on 14 August 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostDaveMac, on 12 August 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

High VCoG is causing the extremely low Playiability Factor.

Can someone explain what VCoG is and why it affects the playability?

Thanks

The height of the sweet-spot in the MPF is labeled as Actual Vertical COG (AVCOG).

Solid contact in the vertical aspect of impact, is where the sweet-spot goes a little underneath the center of ball or directly in line with it.

The center of a golf ball is .840".  So for most players, any head design that has a sweet-spot (AVCOG) that is higher than .840" will be more difficult to hit solid from normal and tighter lie conditions....not teed up.

Head designs with sweet-spots "well" lower than .840" allow "more room to work with", in the sense that you don't have to go down and through nearly as precise in order to get the sweet-spot under the center of the ball.  Therefore, easier to hit in the vertical aspect of contact.


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