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My driver results today


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#1 Bob9604

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:54 PM

I have been considering a Ping G SF driver of a callaway rx16.  I tried hitting the callaway and just didn't like it so I found a new Ping g SF 12 degree with regular flex shaft.  Was hitting in golf Galaxy and although the I could only get 3 readings on the launch monitor here were the averages.  Launch angle 16.2, ball speed 116.33, total distance 192, back spin 3835, and club speed 80.  So what are you suggestions for loft and shaft I should get with the ping g SF?  I wish they would have had a 10 degree to try but they didn't.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.


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#2 Golf64

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 07:39 AM

Try the G400 SFT in 10* reg. shaft to see if you get any better performance? If so, go find a G, if that is what you are looking for? Also try the G400 Max. Great driver! ;)
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#3 Davidv

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:29 AM

10.5 loft, senior flex.

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#4 Bob9604

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 01:47 PM

Not sure my ego will let me swing a senior flex 😆  Going to try one out though. Thanks

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#5 starrman77

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:23 PM

View PostBob9604, on 12 August 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

Not sure my ego will let me swing a senior flex ��  Going to try one out though. Thanks

Leave your ego at home and make the game fun.

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#6 Chuck905

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.
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U45 17*, Recoil 110
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#7 Howard Jones

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 02:31 AM

View PostBob9604, on 11 August 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

I have been considering a Ping G SF driver of a callaway rx16.  I tried hitting the callaway and just didn't like it so I found a new Ping g SF 12 degree with regular flex shaft.  Was hitting in golf Galaxy and although the I could only get 3 readings on the launch monitor here were the averages.  Launch angle 16.2, ball speed 116.33, total distance 192, back spin 3835, and club speed 80.  So what are you suggestions for loft and shaft I should get with the ping g SF?  I wish they would have had a 10 degree to try but they didn't.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

You start out a bit wrong here.
Before we can make any judgement of our need for loft (launch angle), we need to optimize ball speed first since thats where distance actually comes  from. We look at impact spot on the face and Smash factor or power transfer ratio (PTR value)

Ball speed / Club speed = Smash factor
- 116 ball speed / 80 club speed = 1.45
We should get this up to at least 1.48 as average, 1.5 is perfect, and 1.52 is about the max we can get.

This is how your BALL SPEED will look like from the same club speed, when you improve your impact on the face.

80 x 1.45 = 116.0
80 x 1.46 = 116.8
80 x 1.47 = 117.6
80 x 1.48 = 118.4
80 x 1.49 = 119.2
80 x 1.50 = 120.0
80 x 1.51 = 120.8
80 x 1.52 = 121.6

As a rule of thumb, for each mpg ball speed extra we can squeeze out we get 2 yards extra carry, so if you can improve ball speed from now 116 to 120 (PTR value 1.5) you get 8 yards more carry, while total remains about the same. a fine tune of launch and spin can get you 10 to 12 yards further than what you have now from the same club speed. A good club fitter might be able to both improve your impact, and help you to gain a few mph on club speed, and then it really moves your distance.

If we could boost club speed up to 83, and keep a smash factor of 1.5, you get 83 x 1.5 = 124.5 mph ball speed as one example and then we are at least 16 yards further out then you get now.

That means we shall tune up the club on Play length, total wgt and balance so you are able to make a good impact on the area of the face where ball speed is maximized. Then we can look on the details like loft, launch and spin. A launch in the area of 16 is good at your ball speed level, so lofts at 12 or 13 seems to be the area you should look at, but loft is the last parameter of them all, its NOT a good idea to choose loft first, and 10.5 is to low from this club speed, your launch angle should not become lower than what you got, while spin could be quite a bit lower, but a improved impact spot will take care of that, so for now, forget launch and spin, and focus on how easy it is for you to make a good impact (we need a tune up to improve it) and how that club feels.

Edited by Howard Jones, 13 August 2018 - 02:35 AM.


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#8 Bob9604

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Do you see anything I can work on to reduce it?

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#9 Chuck905

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:25 PM

1.45 smash factor is not bad efficiency; youíll improve it with a shaft change and quality strikes.

Try going to a 75 gram shaft and see what it does to your number.

Donít be deterred  by stiff flex either. Your quality of strikes may be more consistent and you may not even lose any clubhead speed at all if little.

Your launch is on the high side so try a low launch and low spin shaft. That should get you down to the 14-15* launch angle and 2500 rpm of backspin, that can potentially lead to 40 yards with roll.

I would pick the Ping over the Callaway. The Calls is too spinny of a driver head. I use to own one and ditched it.

I just went thru a driver fitting for a Tensei White Stiff, 1Ē tipped and Iím less than 100 mph nowadays.

Diamana White, Tensei Orange are good options and the better feeling shafts out there. For example, Iíve even hit the Tensei white in an x-flex and it didnít feel board at all because there is more material over resin.

View PostBob9604, on 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Do you see anything I can work on to reduce it?

Edited by Chuck905, 13 August 2018 - 05:32 PM.

Epic SZ 10*, Tensei White 75
Epic SZ Strong 3 Wood, 13.5*
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Odyssey RX9

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#10 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:41 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 13 August 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

View PostBob9604, on 11 August 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

I have been considering a Ping G SF driver of a callaway rx16.  I tried hitting the callaway and just didn't like it so I found a new Ping g SF 12 degree with regular flex shaft.  Was hitting in golf Galaxy and although the I could only get 3 readings on the launch monitor here were the averages.  Launch angle 16.2, ball speed 116.33, total distance 192, back spin 3835, and club speed 80.  So what are you suggestions for loft and shaft I should get with the ping g SF?  I wish they would have had a 10 degree to try but they didn't.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

You start out a bit wrong here.
Before we can make any judgement of our need for loft (launch angle), we need to optimize ball speed first since thats where distance actually comes  from. We look at impact spot on the face and Smash factor or power transfer ratio (PTR value)

Ball speed / Club speed = Smash factor
- 116 ball speed / 80 club speed = 1.45
We should get this up to at least 1.48 as average, 1.5 is perfect, and 1.52 is about the max we can get.

This is how your BALL SPEED will look like from the same club speed, when you improve your impact on the face.

80 x 1.45 = 116.0
80 x 1.46 = 116.8
80 x 1.47 = 117.6
80 x 1.48 = 118.4
80 x 1.49 = 119.2
80 x 1.50 = 120.0
80 x 1.51 = 120.8
80 x 1.52 = 121.6

As a rule of thumb, for each mpg ball speed extra we can squeeze out we get 2 yards extra carry, so if you can improve ball speed from now 116 to 120 (PTR value 1.5) you get 8 yards more carry, while total remains about the same. a fine tune of launch and spin can get you 10 to 12 yards further than what you have now from the same club speed. A good club fitter might be able to both improve your impact, and help you to gain a few mph on club speed, and then it really moves your distance.

If we could boost club speed up to 83, and keep a smash factor of 1.5, you get 83 x 1.5 = 124.5 mph ball speed as one example and then we are at least 16 yards further out then you get now.

That means we shall tune up the club on Play length, total wgt and balance so you are able to make a good impact on the area of the face where ball speed is maximized. Then we can look on the details like loft, launch and spin. A launch in the area of 16 is good at your ball speed level, so lofts at 12 or 13 seems to be the area you should look at, but loft is the last parameter of them all, its NOT a good idea to choose loft first, and 10.5 is to low from this club speed, your launch angle should not become lower than what you got, while spin could be quite a bit lower, but a improved impact spot will take care of that, so for now, forget launch and spin, and focus on how easy it is for you to make a good impact (we need a tune up to improve it) and how that club feels.


Every time I see 1.45, I think GC2 without HMT. Chances are the monitor he was using doesnít measure head speed. He would need to validate the contact the old fashioned way.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#11 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:48 PM

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Dripping his spin by 1000 RPMs is worth about 5 yards of carry so how is that big distance?

It isnít. Your off...way off.

Edited by Golfrnut, 13 August 2018 - 05:49 PM.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#12 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 06:01 PM

View PostBob9604, on 11 August 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

I have been considering a Ping G SF driver of a callaway rx16.  I tried hitting the callaway and just didn't like it so I found a new Ping g SF 12 degree with regular flex shaft.  Was hitting in golf Galaxy and although the I could only get 3 readings on the launch monitor here were the averages.  Launch angle 16.2, ball speed 116.33, total distance 192, back spin 3835, and club speed 80.  So what are you suggestions for loft and shaft I should get with the ping g SF?  I wish they would have had a 10 degree to try but they didn't.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Verify contact as Howard suggested first. Chances are that you would need some sort of face tape to do that since we are talking about a head you donít own in retail store. Donít pay attention to numbers on a launch monitor, only the contact location. Tape/etc will skew the numbers anyway, so trying to use both at the same time is no good. If you arenít hitting it in the right place, the numbers basically mean nothing anyway. If you are in the center and still have the same numbers, chances are that you are adding dynamic loft at some point in the swing, that can either be due to equipment or a swing fault, but it would take about 20* of dynamic loft to get that high of a launch. Possible if the contact is a but high on the face, but the spin numbers are up there so that kind of says that it isnít.

To discern an equipment or a personal swing issue, I can only suggest you see a fitter(a good one) that can manipulate lengths, shaft weights, etc to optimize the numbers if possible or diganose as a swing fault and fit the equipment for the swing you have. If contact is good and itís swing related, that probably means opting for a but lower loft as you donít quite need the spin and launch numbers you do now.

Losten to Howardís advice, heís putting you on the right track.

Edited by Golfrnut, 13 August 2018 - 06:02 PM.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#13 Bob9604

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 08:30 PM

I could tell by the tape on the face is was making better contact with this one then the xr16.  I was hitting close to center but just a very little to the heel.

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#14 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 08:41 PM

View PostBob9604, on 13 August 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

I could tell by the tape on the face is was making better contact with this one then the xr16.  I was hitting close to center but just a very little to the heel.

Heel side will drop the ball speed a little bit and increase spin. Launch shouldnít really be effected that much, but again, off center hits are always going to skew launch monitor numbers.
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#15 Chuck905

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 09:33 PM

Also drop a couple degrees in launch and take advantage of roll out. +16* of launch is very high.

Anyways, I know the math and all this bs nonsense; lol I went to school for this garbage.

Iím just sharing my personal experience/successes as I recently went thru an equipment fitting a couple weeks ago.

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 August 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Dripping his spin by 1000 RPMs is worth about 5 yards of carry so how is that big distance?

It isnít. Your off...way off.

Epic SZ 10*, Tensei White 75
Epic SZ Strong 3 Wood, 13.5*
U45 17*, Recoil 110
3-PW Mizuno MP18 Blades
Mizuno T7s 54-8 SW and 58-12 LW
Odyssey RX9

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#16 Howard Jones

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:34 AM

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 August 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 13 August 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

View PostBob9604, on 11 August 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

I have been considering a Ping G SF driver of a callaway rx16.  I tried hitting the callaway and just didn't like it so I found a new Ping g SF 12 degree with regular flex shaft.  Was hitting in golf Galaxy and although the I could only get 3 readings on the launch monitor here were the averages.  Launch angle 16.2, ball speed 116.33, total distance 192, back spin 3835, and club speed 80.  So what are you suggestions for loft and shaft I should get with the ping g SF?  I wish they would have had a 10 degree to try but they didn't.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

You start out a bit wrong here.
Before we can make any judgement of our need for loft (launch angle), we need to optimize ball speed first since thats where distance actually comes  from. We look at impact spot on the face and Smash factor or power transfer ratio (PTR value)

Ball speed / Club speed = Smash factor
- 116 ball speed / 80 club speed = 1.45
We should get this up to at least 1.48 as average, 1.5 is perfect, and 1.52 is about the max we can get.

This is how your BALL SPEED will look like from the same club speed, when you improve your impact on the face.

80 x 1.45 = 116.0
80 x 1.46 = 116.8
80 x 1.47 = 117.6
80 x 1.48 = 118.4
80 x 1.49 = 119.2
80 x 1.50 = 120.0
80 x 1.51 = 120.8
80 x 1.52 = 121.6

As a rule of thumb, for each mpg ball speed extra we can squeeze out we get 2 yards extra carry, so if you can improve ball speed from now 116 to 120 (PTR value 1.5) you get 8 yards more carry, while total remains about the same. a fine tune of launch and spin can get you 10 to 12 yards further than what you have now from the same club speed. A good club fitter might be able to both improve your impact, and help you to gain a few mph on club speed, and then it really moves your distance.

If we could boost club speed up to 83, and keep a smash factor of 1.5, you get 83 x 1.5 = 124.5 mph ball speed as one example and then we are at least 16 yards further out then you get now.

That means we shall tune up the club on Play length, total wgt and balance so you are able to make a good impact on the area of the face where ball speed is maximized. Then we can look on the details like loft, launch and spin. A launch in the area of 16 is good at your ball speed level, so lofts at 12 or 13 seems to be the area you should look at, but loft is the last parameter of them all, its NOT a good idea to choose loft first, and 10.5 is to low from this club speed, your launch angle should not become lower than what you got, while spin could be quite a bit lower, but a improved impact spot will take care of that, so for now, forget launch and spin, and focus on how easy it is for you to make a good impact (we need a tune up to improve it) and how that club feels.


Every time I see 1.45, I think GC2 without HMT. Chances are the monitor he was using doesn't measure head speed. He would need to validate the contact the old fashioned way.

yes, it could be, but since no LM name was mentioned, i judged it as if it was Trackman

16

#17 Howard Jones

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 02:11 AM

View PostChuck905, on 13 August 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

1.45 smash factor is not bad efficiency; you'll improve it with a shaft change and quality strikes.

Try going to a 75 gram shaft and see what it does to your number.

Don't be deterred  by stiff flex either. Your quality of strikes may be more consistent and you may not even lose any clubhead speed at all if little.

Your launch is on the high side so try a low launch and low spin shaft. That should get you down to the 14-15* launch angle and 2500 rpm of backspin, that can potentially lead to 40 yards with roll.

I would pick the Ping over the Callaway. The Calls is too spinny of a driver head. I use to own one and ditched it.

I just went thru a driver fitting for a Tensei White Stiff, 1" tipped and I'm less than 100 mph nowadays.

Diamana White, Tensei Orange are good options and the better feeling shafts out there. For example, I've even hit the Tensei white in an x-flex and it didn't feel board at all because there is more material over resin.

View PostBob9604, on 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Do you see anything I can work on to reduce it?

1.45 on a Trackman is no good at all, its the average for off the rack clubs that dont fit the player and he is leaving 8-10 yards compared to where we should be.

Buying a shaft just to try off wgt is not needed, we can simulate a higher shaft wgt by adding lead tape on the middle of it (or the shaft B.P if its known) so it does not cost much to figure out what shaft wgt thats right.

16.2 as launch angle is NOT the higher side for a player below 120 mph ball speed, just look at this numbers we get from Flightscop
116 ball speed, 16.2 launch 3835 rpm spin = 174.9 yards carry, 190.9 total, apex 80.6, flight time 5.7 sec. (the numbers the player got now)

If we wanted to get flight down from 16.2 to 14.0 its 2.2 on launch who is equal to a loft difference of 2.6 lower.
from 80 mph club speed 1* on loft makes a difference to spin of 208 rpm, so 208 x 2.6 = 540 rpm less spin.

116 ball speed, 14.0 launch, (3835 - 540) 3295 prm spin = 174.6 yards carry, 195.8 total
Potential gain depending on fairways is 5 yards more roll out, but nothing on carry.

If we on the other hand tune up the club like it should be done, im convinced we can boost his ball speed to at least 120 mph, and that will also take care of spin values (vertical gear effects) and we hardly ever see spin rates above 2400 when we are dialed in, so lets run those numbers

120 mph ball speed, launch 16*, spin 2400 = 190.2 carry (same as total was) and a total of 216.3 or more than 26 yards extra vs where he is now. If we for some reason cant get his spin below 3200, he will get 186 yards carry and a total of 205.7

Now lets try 120 ball speed with a lower launch
120 mph ball speed, 14 as launch angle, spin value 2400 = 186 on carry and a total of 215.1
.....total goes DOWN when we lower launch from 16 down to 14

if we now try 120 ball speed, 14 launch and 3200 of spin we get 184.1 on carry and a total of 205.3

Distance is all about BALL SPEED, while launch and spin is tuning against max carry or total, we cant use launch and spin to make any major differences, we need more ball speed to move the numbers, and then a PTR value of 1.45 is where we start improvements.

Play length, total wgt, and club balance must be tuned up to fit the player, WE CANT get there using standard play length and it does not matter what shaft we try, it want work before play length wgt and balance is right.

For readers who wants do do this them self, just follow this DIY driver tune up to get out whats in the driver you got.
http://www.golfwrx.c...up-diy-fitting/

We simply need to maximize ball speed first, what launch and spin number that gives is unknown at this stage, so we cant judge them before we have dialed in the right impact area of the face and can see what they are. Then we can make a judgement if higher or lower launch and spin can move us the last distance against our target.

Edited by Howard Jones, 14 August 2018 - 02:32 AM.


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#18 Bob9604

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 05:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot of great information.  It is tough for me to get on a launch monitor since I have to go to Indy which is about 2 hours away.  I think I am going to buy a cheap used G25 10.5 degree with a senior shaft so I can tinker around with and use the suggestions on the linked post about diy adjustments.  I decided on a 10.5 because I can add a degree and close the face a little to see what happens.  My next question is the one I have found has an Aldila NVS 45 shaft that is supposed to be senior flex.  Is that a good starting spot?  I am planning on trying other shafts as I go through this process but want a good starting spot.  Thanks again

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#19 Howard Jones

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 05:50 AM

View PostBob9604, on 14 August 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot of great information.  It is tough for me to get on a launch monitor since I have to go to Indy which is about 2 hours away.  I think I am going to buy a cheap used G25 10.5 degree with a senior shaft so I can tinker around with and use the suggestions on the linked post about diy adjustments.  I decided on a 10.5 because I can add a degree and close the face a little to see what happens.  My next question is the one I have found has an Aldila NVS 45 shaft that is supposed to be senior flex.  Is that a good starting spot?  I am planning on trying other shafts as I go through this process but want a good starting spot.  Thanks again

Flex is not very important, shaft weight is, so make sure shaft wgt is within reason of where it should be.
If you go back to that DIY driver tune up and scroll down a bit, you will find a chart for shaft weight progression.

Be dead strait with yourself, and find the club in your bag (what ever club that might be), that works the best for you, and feels good in terms of weight. Now go to that chart, and find that club with its uncut shaft wgt who is listed in the chart. When found you have found the row where the rest of your bag is listed with suggestion for shaft wgt to make them feel and play like that favorite club.
We hardly ever go more than one row up or down (5 grams up or down), so if the shaft you think of is more than 5 grams off from that chart compared with your favorite club, dont buy it, then its either too light or too heavy, but dont forget to look at play length.
For each 1 inch we go longer, uncut shaft wgt should go down with 5 grams.

If you fit to play standard in irons, a driver of 44.00 is most likely the best unless you have a natural flat swing plane and a very good eye to hand coordination

This way you can dial in the weight range that most likely is good for you in a driver before you buy anything so you prevent buying a shaft to light or too heavy. From that stage its quite easy to tune it up if you follow that DIY.

Edited by Howard Jones, 14 August 2018 - 05:55 AM.


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#20 Bob9604

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 06:03 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 14 August 2018 - 05:50 AM, said:

View PostBob9604, on 14 August 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot of great information.  It is tough for me to get on a launch monitor since I have to go to Indy which is about 2 hours away.  I think I am going to buy a cheap used G25 10.5 degree with a senior shaft so I can tinker around with and use the suggestions on the linked post about diy adjustments.  I decided on a 10.5 because I can add a degree and close the face a little to see what happens.  My next question is the one I have found has an Aldila NVS 45 shaft that is supposed to be senior flex.  Is that a good starting spot?  I am planning on trying other shafts as I go through this process but want a good starting spot.  Thanks again

Flex is not very important, shaft weight is, so make sure shaft wgt is within reason of where it should be.
If you go back to that DIY driver tune up and scroll down a bit, you will find a chart for shaft weight progression.

Be dead strait with yourself, and find the club in your bag (what ever club that might be), that works the best for you, and feels good in terms of weight. Now go to that chart, and find that club with its uncut shaft wgt who is listed in the chart. When found you have found the row where the rest of your bag is listed with suggestion for shaft wgt to make them feel and play like that favorite club.
We hardly ever go more than one row up or down (5 grams up or down), so if the shaft you think of is more than 5 grams off from that chart compared with your favorite club, dont buy it, then its either too light or too heavy, but dont forget to look at play length.
For each 1 inch we go longer, uncut shaft wgt should go down with 5 grams.

If you fit to play standard in irons, a driver of 44.00 is most likely the best unless you have a natural flat swing plane and a very good eye to hand coordination

This way you can dial in the weight range that most likely is good for you in a driver before you buy anything so you prevent buying a shaft to light or too heavy. From that stage its quite easy to tune it up if you follow that DIY.

Thanks!  I really appreciate all the help.


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#21 Bob9604

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 09:35 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 14 August 2018 - 05:50 AM, said:

View PostBob9604, on 14 August 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot of great information.  It is tough for me to get on a launch monitor since I have to go to Indy which is about 2 hours away.  I think I am going to buy a cheap used G25 10.5 degree with a senior shaft so I can tinker around with and use the suggestions on the linked post about diy adjustments.  I decided on a 10.5 because I can add a degree and close the face a little to see what happens.  My next question is the one I have found has an Aldila NVS 45 shaft that is supposed to be senior flex.  Is that a good starting spot?  I am planning on trying other shafts as I go through this process but want a good starting spot.  Thanks again



Flex is not very important, shaft weight is, so make sure shaft wgt is within reason of where it should be.
If you go back to that DIY driver tune up and scroll down a bit, you will find a chart for shaft weight progression.

Be dead strait with yourself, and find the club in your bag (what ever club that might be), that works the best for you, and feels good in terms of weight. Now go to that chart, and find that club with its uncut shaft wgt who is listed in the chart. When found you have found the row where the rest of your bag is listed with suggestion for shaft wgt to make them feel and play like that favorite club.
We hardly ever go more than one row up or down (5 grams up or down), so if the shaft you think of is more than 5 grams off from that chart compared with your favorite club, dont buy it, then its either too light or too heavy, but dont forget to look at play length.
For each 1 inch we go longer, uncut shaft wgt should go down with 5 grams.

If you fit to play standard in irons, a driver of 44.00 is most likely the best unless you have a natural flat swing plane and a very good eye to hand coordination

This way you can dial in the weight range that most likely is good for you in a driver before you buy anything so you prevent buying a shaft to light or too heavy. From that stage its quite easy to tune it up if you follow that DIY.

So I have two clubs I really like to hit and hit well.  One is a 2h with stiff shaft and one is a 4w with regular shaft.  I hit them both probably better than any club in my bag and the 4w is probably extreme distance for me so I will look it's shaft up.

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#22 Chuck905

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 04:35 PM

Can you please explain to me how you can get a 1.52 smash factor?

It goes against the theory on conservation of energy.

View PostHoward Jones, on 14 August 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

View PostChuck905, on 13 August 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

1.45 smash factor is not bad efficiency; you'll improve it with a shaft change and quality strikes.

Try going to a 75 gram shaft and see what it does to your number.

Don't be deterred  by stiff flex either. Your quality of strikes may be more consistent and you may not even lose any clubhead speed at all if little.

Your launch is on the high side so try a low launch and low spin shaft. That should get you down to the 14-15* launch angle and 2500 rpm of backspin, that can potentially lead to 40 yards with roll.

I would pick the Ping over the Callaway. The Calls is too spinny of a driver head. I use to own one and ditched it.

I just went thru a driver fitting for a Tensei White Stiff, 1" tipped and I'm less than 100 mph nowadays.

Diamana White, Tensei Orange are good options and the better feeling shafts out there. For example, I've even hit the Tensei white in an x-flex and it didn't feel board at all because there is more material over resin.

View PostBob9604, on 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

View PostChuck905, on 12 August 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your high spin rate is the culprit for big distance loss.

Do you see anything I can work on to reduce it?

1.45 on a Trackman is no good at all, its the average for off the rack clubs that dont fit the player and he is leaving 8-10 yards compared to where we should be.

Buying a shaft just to try off wgt is not needed, we can simulate a higher shaft wgt by adding lead tape on the middle of it (or the shaft B.P if its known) so it does not cost much to figure out what shaft wgt thats right.

16.2 as launch angle is NOT the higher side for a player below 120 mph ball speed, just look at this numbers we get from Flightscop
116 ball speed, 16.2 launch 3835 rpm spin = 174.9 yards carry, 190.9 total, apex 80.6, flight time 5.7 sec. (the numbers the player got now)

If we wanted to get flight down from 16.2 to 14.0 its 2.2 on launch who is equal to a loft difference of 2.6 lower.
from 80 mph club speed 1* on loft makes a difference to spin of 208 rpm, so 208 x 2.6 = 540 rpm less spin.

116 ball speed, 14.0 launch, (3835 - 540) 3295 prm spin = 174.6 yards carry, 195.8 total
Potential gain depending on fairways is 5 yards more roll out, but nothing on carry.

If we on the other hand tune up the club like it should be done, im convinced we can boost his ball speed to at least 120 mph, and that will also take care of spin values (vertical gear effects) and we hardly ever see spin rates above 2400 when we are dialed in, so lets run those numbers

120 mph ball speed, launch 16*, spin 2400 = 190.2 carry (same as total was) and a total of 216.3 or more than 26 yards extra vs where he is now. If we for some reason cant get his spin below 3200, he will get 186 yards carry and a total of 205.7

Now lets try 120 ball speed with a lower launch
120 mph ball speed, 14 as launch angle, spin value 2400 = 186 on carry and a total of 215.1
.....total goes DOWN when we lower launch from 16 down to 14

if we now try 120 ball speed, 14 launch and 3200 of spin we get 184.1 on carry and a total of 205.3

Distance is all about BALL SPEED, while launch and spin is tuning against max carry or total, we cant use launch and spin to make any major differences, we need more ball speed to move the numbers, and then a PTR value of 1.45 is where we start improvements.

Play length, total wgt, and club balance must be tuned up to fit the player, WE CANT get there using standard play length and it does not matter what shaft we try, it want work before play length wgt and balance is right.

For readers who wants do do this them self, just follow this DIY driver tune up to get out whats in the driver you got.
http://www.golfwrx.c...up-diy-fitting/

We simply need to maximize ball speed first, what launch and spin number that gives is unknown at this stage, so we cant judge them before we have dialed in the right impact area of the face and can see what they are. Then we can make a judgement if higher or lower launch and spin can move us the last distance against our target.

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#23 Howard Jones

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 11:07 PM

Just follow the link to that DIY driver tune up and you will find a photo illustration who explain how Trackman return PTR values.

Trackman measure ball speed, and club speed is measured at the center of the face.
Since club speed goes up 10 mph from heel to toe side (plus or minus 5 mph vs center of the face), and the club speed used in the math is from the center of the face, we can get over 1.5.

Some might say this cant be right like you do, but it is.
A player who has 100 mph on the center of the face and get a ball speed of 150 has a PTR value of 1.5
If we can move impact about 0.5" inch against the toe side, ACTUAL club speed on the impact spot is 102

That makes it possible to squeeze out a ball speed of 152 and since its still club speed from the center of the face thats used for the math, Trackman judge this as 152 ball speed / 100 club speed = 1.52 as PTR
(you might want to see this as 152 / 102 = 1.49 so we dont go beyond whats possible (1.495) but the player IS more efficient.)

The player DID gain 2 mph ball speed vs a impact dead center, so his efficiency is higher and and that means the PTR value dont lie, even if it might look like that.

The mathematical max for PTR within the rules of Golf is a tad below 1.5 (1,495) but then we talk dead center of the face where we would see a return value rounded up to 1.50, but when we move impact a tad against the toe, we can squeeze out 1-2 mph extra ball speed from the same center of the face club speed.

Edited by Howard Jones, 14 August 2018 - 11:14 PM.


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#24 Chuck905

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 06:52 AM

1.52 is basically a calculation error because the reference is the sweet spot.

Itís still never more than 1.50 smash factor.

I really appreciate your response.

View PostHoward Jones, on 14 August 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

Just follow the link to that DIY driver tune up and you will find a photo illustration who explain how Trackman return PTR values.

Trackman measure ball speed, and club speed is measured at the center of the face.
Since club speed goes up 10 mph from heel to toe side (plus or minus 5 mph vs center of the face), and the club speed used in the math is from the center of the face, we can get over 1.5.

Some might say this cant be right like you do, but it is.
A player who has 100 mph on the center of the face and get a ball speed of 150 has a PTR value of 1.5
If we can move impact about 0.5" inch against the toe side, ACTUAL club speed on the impact spot is 102

That makes it possible to squeeze out a ball speed of 152 and since its still club speed from the center of the face thats used for the math, Trackman judge this as 152 ball speed / 100 club speed = 1.52 as PTR
(you might want to see this as 152 / 102 = 1.49 so we dont go beyond whats possible (1.495) but the player IS more efficient.)

The player DID gain 2 mph ball speed vs a impact dead center, so his efficiency is higher and and that means the PTR value dont lie, even if it might look like that.

The mathematical max for PTR within the rules of Golf is a tad below 1.5 (1,495) but then we talk dead center of the face where we would see a return value rounded up to 1.50, but when we move impact a tad against the toe, we can squeeze out 1-2 mph extra ball speed from the same center of the face club speed.

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#25 Howard Jones

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:35 AM

Read it over.

IF your club speed at the center of the face is 100, its 100....
IF ball speed out from tee is 152 mph, PTR value or your efficiency ratio is 1.52

Those 2 mph extra ball speed gives about 4 yards extra carry, vs the same center of the face club speed and 150 ball speed, so Trackmans PTR value dont lie, it tell the actual efficiency the player has when he convert club speed to ball speed.

When impact gets heel side, the same PTR value drops like a stone, because ball speed drops, so when we look at the return value, we know if we made a good impact or not, and thats what its meant to be used for.

Edited by Howard Jones, 15 August 2018 - 11:36 AM.


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#26 MysteryV

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:45 PM

I say this with the absolute best intentions as I recently had an epiphany after an incredible lesson:

You might be better off investing in a lesson rather than a SF driver.

I've struggled with the driver for the last 1.5 years since returning to the game.  Always fought an awful over the top move where I had to cast and extend early to compensate.  I took 3 lessons across two different, well regarded coaches, and saw some, but not a ton of improvement.  

Determined to improve I tried another coach and the way he explained just clicked with me.  While much of the underlying theory was the same ("strengthen left hand grip / learn to turn your hands early") - the way he described it and drills he had at his disposal simply clicked with me.

Literally after one lesson with the right coach I've changed my shot shape and added 30 - 40 yards to my driver.

Keep in mind, last time I went to get fit at club champion the guy literally told me "there's no driver that's going to fix ... that".

Again, I don't know your full story, but I'd highly recommend seeking out a really good coach who you communicate well with and have faith in.  For me, it helped more than any of the last $6k I've spent on equipment.

PS - I have the G400 LST and absolutely love it.  The G400 series is fantastic!
Driver: Ping G400 Max w/ Fujikura Speeder Evo V
3 Wood: Epic 3+ w/ GD AD-DI
Driving Iron: TM P790 2-Iron UDI w/ Modus 120
Irons: 4-P Miura Baby Blades w/ Modus 120
Wedges: Miura Y Grind 51, Miura K Grind 56,60 w/ Modus Wedge
Putter: Byron Morgan DH89 GSS

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#27 Bob9604

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

View PostMysteryV, on 15 August 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

I say this with the absolute best intentions as I recently had an epiphany after an incredible lesson:

You might be better off investing in a lesson rather than a SF driver.

I've struggled with the driver for the last 1.5 years since returning to the game.  Always fought an awful over the top move where I had to cast and extend early to compensate.  I took 3 lessons across two different, well regarded coaches, and saw some, but not a ton of improvement.  

Determined to improve I tried another coach and the way he explained just clicked with me.  While much of the underlying theory was the same ("strengthen left hand grip / learn to turn your hands early") - the way he described it and drills he had at his disposal simply clicked with me.

Literally after one lesson with the right coach I've changed my shot shape and added 30 - 40 yards to my driver.

Keep in mind, last time I went to get fit at club champion the guy literally told me "there's no driver that's going to fix ... that".

Again, I don't know your full story, but I'd highly recommend seeking out a really good coach who you communicate well with and have faith in.  For me, it helped more than any of the last $6k I've spent on equipment.

PS - I have the G400 LST and absolutely love it.  The G400 series is fantastic!

Thanks!  I am planning on my first lesson a week from Saturday. 👍

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