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Can you fine gentleman give me some advice?


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#1 Dr. Block

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 06:41 PM

Recently went back to my vintage bag (Cleveland classic persimmon driver, Nicklaus muirfield persimmon 5wd, Macgregor Nicklaus muirfield 20th anniversary blades 2-PW, Hogan Apex Equalizer, and Wilson Staff SW).  

First off, itís great to be back to pure proper golf. But secondly, back is the Jones to start the collecting again.  Can anyone tell me about these supposed Tony Penna woods:
https://rover.ebay.c...tm/232870932578

Being a lefty, the chance to snatch up quality persimmons come few and far between.  Normally Iíd skip on regular flex shafts, but I might be inclined to make an exception here.

Thanks in advance for your input

Best,
Matt

Edited by Dr. Block, 05 August 2018 - 06:44 PM.


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#2 TimV

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 07:03 PM

They look legit and with a nice grain. Nothing some time and sanding couldn't straighten out and Penna persimmons have always been well regarded.
Vintage:
60-61 Wilson Staff 2-PW w/t MacGregor Tourney Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Signature Brass Putter

67-68 Spalding Top Flite Professional 2-PW & Palmer FTD SW  w/t Ping Eye2 Driver & 4 Wood, Spalding T.P.M. 12 Putter

Classic:
71-72 Wilson Staff Button Backs 2-PW & R61 Sandy Andy SW w/t Wilson System 3000 Persimmon Driver and 3 Wood, MacGregor Tourney SAT 5 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Pay-Off Putter

Modern Classic:
'1995' Snake Eyes S&W Forged 3-10 Irons, Mizuno MP 52-07, Titleist 258-08 Vokey, w/t Snake Eyes 600T 11 degree Driver, Snake Eyes Viper MS 18 & 21 degree Fairways, Golfsmith Zero Friction Putter

Modern:
2016 Wilson Staff FG Tour F5 Forged 4-GW Irons, Wilson Harmonized 55 degree SW & 60 degree Lob, w/t TaylorMade Burner Superfast 2.0: 10.5 degree Driver, 18 degree 4 Wood, 21 degree Hybrid. Tour Edge CNC Milled Feel III Putter

For S&G:
lil' David Slingers 2-PW w/t Tracks USA 10 degree Driver, 15 degree 3 Wood, and Brass Rammer 3000 USA Putter
*Ridiculous offset on all of these. You have to see it to believe it!  

Founding Father of the Jolly Roger Golf Association Member #1 and only...
(You can join but you have to get the tattoo)

Spank the Persimmon or Walk the Plank!

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#3 Dr. Block

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 09:26 PM

Thank you Tim.  Glad to be back in the classic game. Iíve always lurked on here and enjoyed the conversations you guys have about the treasure hunts, and the excitement surrounding the rare finds.  Now more then ever I wish I was a right handed player.  Looking on eBay, the stuff available for righties is like a fantasy Christmas morning.

Edited by Dr. Block, 05 August 2018 - 10:04 PM.


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#4 augustgolf

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 10:14 PM

I'd grab these in a Michigan minute. They can be refinished to better-than-new condition & played for a long, long time.

Snatch 'em up, my friend
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#5 Chris122

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:48 AM

Warm welcome to a fellow portsider!

Nice looking clubs that have not been messed with and appear not to have been played with a great deal although no images of the faces/inserts.

Like your bag!


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#6 Dr. Block

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:05 AM

Thank you August, Thank you Chris.  I was kind of unsure on the woods because other Penna's I've seen in RH on ebay had "Tony Penna" on the sole. These didn't.

Do you guys have experience with regular flex steel shafts?  Are they that much different then stiff?  Does a softer shaft make a huge difference in steel with the wooden head in regards to launch, spin conditions, or any other sort of prohibitive factor?

My swing-speed is 105-110 very smooth and slow tempo (especially when I'm swinging old clubs).

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#7 augustgolf

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:25 AM

View PostDr. Block, on 06 August 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

Thank you August, Thank you Chris.  I was kind of unsure on the woods because other Penna's I've seen in RH on ebay had "Tony Penna" on the sole. These didn't.

Do you guys have experience with regular flex steel shafts?  Are they that much different then stiff?  Does a softer shaft make a huge difference in steel with the wooden head in regards to launch, spin conditions, or any other sort of prohibitive factor?

My swing-speed is 105-110 very smooth and slow tempo (especially when I'm swinging old clubs).

Here is what I would suggest:

Get them first. Hit them and see how you feel about the looks of the clubs when you are playing them, and the feel of the shafts.

If you have a liking of the looks, but don't like the shafts, it is not that difficult to reshaft them with whatever you feel would make them play better for you.

FWIW - Toney Penna woods typically were built with Dynamic steel shafts. A bit heavier than today's offerings, but....again, you might like the feel of the shaft in the clubs.

Please keep us informed of what you are doing with them, and pics.....lots of pics!
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#8 Dr. Block

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:33 AM

View Postaugustgolf, on 06 August 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 06 August 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

Thank you August, Thank you Chris.  I was kind of unsure on the woods because other Penna's I've seen in RH on ebay had "Tony Penna" on the sole. These didn't.

Do you guys have experience with regular flex steel shafts?  Are they that much different then stiff?  Does a softer shaft make a huge difference in steel with the wooden head in regards to launch, spin conditions, or any other sort of prohibitive factor?

My swing-speed is 105-110 very smooth and slow tempo (especially when I'm swinging old clubs).

Here is what I would suggest:

Get them first. Hit them and see how you feel about the looks of the clubs when you are playing them, and the feel of the shafts.

If you have a liking of the looks, but don't like the shafts, it is not that difficult to reshaft them with whatever you feel would make them play better for you.

FWIW - Toney Penna woods typically were built with Dynamic steel shafts. A bit heavier than today's offerings, but....again, you might like the feel of the shaft in the clubs.

Please keep us informed of what you are doing with them, and pics.....lots of pics!

Thanks August.  I always sort of assumed re-shafting and re-whipping a persimmon golf club was a club-making skill gone the way of the dinosaur.  Time for me to do some Golfwrx back catalog searching :)

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#9 augustgolf

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:07 PM

View PostDr. Block, on 06 August 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postaugustgolf, on 06 August 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 06 August 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

Thank you August, Thank you Chris.  I was kind of unsure on the woods because other Penna's I've seen in RH on ebay had "Tony Penna" on the sole. These didn't.

Do you guys have experience with regular flex steel shafts?  Are they that much different then stiff?  Does a softer shaft make a huge difference in steel with the wooden head in regards to launch, spin conditions, or any other sort of prohibitive factor?

My swing-speed is 105-110 very smooth and slow tempo (especially when I'm swinging old clubs).

Here is what I would suggest:

Get them first. Hit them and see how you feel about the looks of the clubs when you are playing them, and the feel of the shafts.

If you have a liking of the looks, but don't like the shafts, it is not that difficult to reshaft them with whatever you feel would make them play better for you.

FWIW - Toney Penna woods typically were built with Dynamic steel shafts. A bit heavier than today's offerings, but....again, you might like the feel of the shaft in the clubs.

Please keep us informed of what you are doing with them, and pics.....lots of pics!

Thanks August.  I always sort of assumed re-shafting and re-whipping a persimmon golf club was a club-making skill gone the way of the dinosaur.  Time for me to do some Golfwrx back catalog searching :)

In the event that you can't find anyone to do a refinish/re-whip, let me know. I have kept my "skills" because there are fewer and fewer of us that have them nowadays.
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#10 TimV

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:12 PM

I agree with augustgolf that you should give them a fair testing over time to decide. A return to persimmon will most likely take an adjustment period. Be patient.
I'm guessing that even with your higher swing speed that if you are smooth and slow tempo chances are high they will work for you, and may even give you a few extra yards. If not, there are several folks on 'this side' of the WRX board who can do the work if you can't find someone local with the needed skill set.
Those Pennas are legit and are priced well. Hope you get them and enjoy them.

Edited by TimV, 06 August 2018 - 07:15 PM.

Vintage:
60-61 Wilson Staff 2-PW w/t MacGregor Tourney Persimmon Driver & 4 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Signature Brass Putter

67-68 Spalding Top Flite Professional 2-PW & Palmer FTD SW  w/t Ping Eye2 Driver & 4 Wood, Spalding T.P.M. 12 Putter

Classic:
71-72 Wilson Staff Button Backs 2-PW & R61 Sandy Andy SW w/t Wilson System 3000 Persimmon Driver and 3 Wood, MacGregor Tourney SAT 5 Wood, Wilson Sam Snead Pay-Off Putter

Modern Classic:
'1995' Snake Eyes S&W Forged 3-10 Irons, Mizuno MP 52-07, Titleist 258-08 Vokey, w/t Snake Eyes 600T 11 degree Driver, Snake Eyes Viper MS 18 & 21 degree Fairways, Golfsmith Zero Friction Putter

Modern:
2016 Wilson Staff FG Tour F5 Forged 4-GW Irons, Wilson Harmonized 55 degree SW & 60 degree Lob, w/t TaylorMade Burner Superfast 2.0: 10.5 degree Driver, 18 degree 4 Wood, 21 degree Hybrid. Tour Edge CNC Milled Feel III Putter

For S&G:
lil' David Slingers 2-PW w/t Tracks USA 10 degree Driver, 15 degree 3 Wood, and Brass Rammer 3000 USA Putter
*Ridiculous offset on all of these. You have to see it to believe it!  

Founding Father of the Jolly Roger Golf Association Member #1 and only...
(You can join but you have to get the tattoo)

Spank the Persimmon or Walk the Plank!

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#11 wkuo3

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

Edited by wkuo3, 07 August 2018 - 09:59 AM.


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#12 Dr. Block

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.

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#13 NRJyzr

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:58 PM

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.


I actually like the idea of graphites in persimmons/laminates.  There are so many more things that can be done with respect to launch and spin with graphite than are available with steel wood shafts.  As well as weight variability.

Not to mention vibration dampening.  After a certain point in life, that becomes more important.  ;)
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#14 augustgolf

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:16 PM

View PostNRJyzr, on 08 August 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.


I actually like the idea of graphites in persimmons/laminates.  There are so many more things that can be done with respect to launch and spin with graphite than are available with steel wood shafts.  As well as weight variability.

Not to mention vibration dampening.  After a certain point in life, that becomes more important.  ;)

When graphite shafts first started showing up (early 70's), they had to be shafted into something.

I remember a young Craig Stadler as an amateur. He already hit the ball a long way, but tried graphite in a persimmon Tommy Armour driver. Those early graphite shafts were not known for consistency.

I watched him absolutely murder one drive (probably 280-290 - remember, balata balls) and the next hole, hit one of the most god-awful slices you could imagine. This from a college All-American.

Point it, the right type of graphite shaft - for you, and the head you are trying to match it to - could make your golf a whole lot more fun.
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#15 augustgolf

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:18 PM

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.

Now - putting a fiberglass shaft in persimmon (late 60's Gary Player clubs from Shakespeare).....that would be like ham without eggs.

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#16 wkuo3

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:25 PM

View PostNRJyzr, on 08 August 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.


I actually like the idea of graphites in persimmons/laminates.  There are so many more things that can be done with respect to launch and spin with graphite than are available with steel wood shafts.  As well as weight variability.

Not to mention vibration dampening.  After a certain point in life, that becomes more important.  ;)


A lot of my friends had gone to the combination of graphite and persimmon head in the period when the idea just came out.
I had tried, but it did not work well for me.
Like they say, somehow the graphite shaft and persimmon just don't look right together.
Perhaps they said the same for steel shafts taking over the hickory, especially a steel shaft in a long nose .

Edited by wkuo3, 08 August 2018 - 02:28 PM.


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#17 augustgolf

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 01:30 AM

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.
So...did you pull the trigger on those Penna's or not?
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#18 BIG STU

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 05:39 AM

View Postaugustgolf, on 08 August 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 07 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Listing including the "Best Offer " !
What would you have to lose, being a Southpaw really don't have a lot choices come the persimmon wood selection.  It was skinny picking when they were new and even tougher these days.

Surprisingly, there are lots of LH persimmon from Honma ( most with regular flex graphite shaft ).

I gave some Honma's a whirl a few years ago, but the shaft's were just too whippy.  Even their version of a graphite x-flex was a bit of a noodle.  And to be honest, hitting a persimmon with a graphite shaft in it just felt wrong on some level.  Like driving a sports car with an automatic transmission.

Now - putting a fiberglass shaft in persimmon (late 60's Gary Player clubs from Shakespeare).....that would be like ham without eggs.
OMG you made me shudder!!! I can remember back in the day a guy over in Kannapolis NC had a club shop and made custom persimmon woods. It was Ike's Golf Shop. I remember he built one of those as an experiment for my old man and that thing was awful. I was about 14 or 15 at the time and had a fast swing speed and all I could do was rope hook that thing. I remember my old man told Ike that was a waste of time and effort on a good persimmon head and Shakespere should concentrate on making fishing rods and not club shafts. I do remember Ike got a Pro Pel 2 shaft from the old man and put it in that driver and my old man hit that for a long time. Footnote back in those days my old man had boxes of Pro Pel 2 shafts laying around. In fact when he went on Wilson Staff he had Ike put a set of Pro Pel 2s in a set of 70 Staffs. The Wilson rep did not like that when he found out. LOL and some of you guys think I committed a "cardinal sin" by putting Hogan Apex shafts into my VIPs
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#19 wkuo3

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:45 AM

Come to think of it, remembering reading of Judy Rankin used a persimmon driver with graphite shaft ( shaft by her father just weeks prior ) won a tournament across the pond.

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