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Ban Green-Reading Books?

putting range finders green-reading books Bryson DeChambeau Pin-placement maps Golfweek

81 replies to this topic

#1 clublender

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:03 PM

Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?


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#2 Darth Putter

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:05 PM

You get a 150 yard bush that may or may not actually be 150 yards from the center of the green and that's it!

Edited by Darth Putter, 26 July 2018 - 05:05 PM.

swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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#3 wcbjr

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:26 PM

It'll be tough to execute that.  Do they allow hand-written notes?  What's to stop the players and caddies from hand-copying existing books?

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#4 stickner

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:44 PM

This is an idiotic decision to ban these books.

What kind of damn idiots decide to do this?

Idiots I tell ya, IDIOTS!

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#5 ThinkingPlus

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 05:50 PM

Actually banning having the books on course during competition is interesting, but will not really impact things much.  My guess is that most pros can memorize each green pretty well just studying the books ahead of time.  Overlay the pin position and study away.  The USGA and R&A will feel better though.

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#6 Roadking2003

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 06:28 PM

And yet winning scores just don't go down.   But the USGA needs to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

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#7 IVM

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 06:43 PM

Just ban the books and make them read the greens like everyone did before them .

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#8 lookylookitzadam

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 06:57 PM

Let them have the book if they want for planning approach shots but once their ball is on the green that book goes away. Maybe it becomes a 1-stroke penalty if it is out while on the green or something.

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#9 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 06:58 PM

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry17710992

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry17730008

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#10 clublender

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:47 AM

View Postwcbjr, on 26 July 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

It'll be tough to execute that.  Do they allow hand-written notes?  What's to stop the players and caddies from hand-copying existing books?
I guess that will change the caddy mantra from "show up, keep up and shut up," to "show up, keep up, shut up...and take a whole lot of notes."


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#11 clublender

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:49 AM

View Poststickner, on 26 July 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

This is an idiotic decision to ban these books.

What kind of damn idiots decide to do this?

Idiots I tell ya, IDIOTS!
Stickner, with your image from Tin Cup, just wondering if Roy McAvoy would ever, ever, ever use a green-reading book? Probably never even knew what one was.

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#12 cfunk11

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:16 AM

I a have been playing the same course for 8 years and I still don't know how to read the greens. These guys play a different course every week so I don't have an issue with them using the books. But it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to get all the nesasary info to strike a putt.

Edited by cfunk11, 27 July 2018 - 11:17 AM.


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#13 wildcatden

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:16 AM

The books get banned. Instead, each player must carry a reproduction of the idol that Greg Brady found on The Brady Bunch. Before each putt, they are allowed to pray to the idol in hopes that the putt goes in.

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#14 bigchucksr

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:18 AM

This is an interesting discussion, after watching the Open last week and seeing the profusion of both yardage books and green charts being used, a question came to mind--"what is the difference between these books and a gps system?"
I'd much prefer a "natural" game where the golfer and caddie make the decisions based on what they know and see before them--tee to green--every shot, every putt.
It would be interesting to see who then emerged from the pack as the "best reader" of the green or the "best reader" of the course as a whole--adding a new (once old) dimension to the professional game.
I for one am a bit tired of the routine of a player and caddie intently studying some illustrated book before every shot/putt during the round.
I say turn 'em loose and let's see who can conquer a golf course naturally without outside assistance.

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#15 A.Princey

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 12:37 AM

Yes, ban them, they make mediocre putters look competent. There's something to be said about "knowing" green slopes and hidden breaks by memory that should endure like in days of old. A simple book with several arrows, created by the caddie should be admissible, but these topography maps with slope readings(per hole location) are certainly against the principles the game was founded upon.

Can you imagine Faxon or Crenshaw having these at their disposal??? Or maybe, just maybe, they were better at reading greens in the first place!

Edited by A.Princey, 28 July 2018 - 12:50 AM.

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#16 Roadking2003

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:17 AM

View Postbigchucksr, on 27 July 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

This is an interesting discussion, after watching the Open last week and seeing the profusion of both yardage books and green charts being used, a question came to mind--"what is the difference between these books and a gps system?"
I'd much prefer a "natural" game where the golfer and caddie make the decisions based on what they know and see before them--tee to green--every shot, every putt.
It would be interesting to see who then emerged from the pack as the "best reader" of the green or the "best reader" of the course as a whole--adding a new (once old) dimension to the professional game.
I for one am a bit tired of the routine of a player and caddie intently studying some illustrated book before every shot/putt during the round.
I say turn 'em loose and let's see who can conquer a golf course naturally without outside assistance.

And ban caddies so they don't get any outside assistance?

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#17 Roadking2003

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:20 AM

I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map.  My experience is that they are of very little value.  The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks.  They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.

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#18 hell_is_chrome

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:51 AM

View PostIVM, on 26 July 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

Just ban the books and make them read the greens like everyone did before them .

Just ban the books and make them eyeball yardages like everyone did before the early 1960's.

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#19 new2g0lf

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 09:42 AM

Another case of the R&A and USGA looking for problems where they don't exist, I guess they need to justify their existence and huge bank accounts somehow.  It's really a joke, all this talk about distance and green books ruining the game and yet scoring is has been reduced just .004 strokes per year, .004, is this really the best use of their time?

Seems they won't be happy until we're just playing hickory clubs and gutties again.

Edited by new2g0lf, 28 July 2018 - 09:44 AM.

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#20 Jc0

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 10:04 AM

View PostRoadking2003, on 28 July 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map.  My experience is that they are of very little value.  The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks.  They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.

The ones the pros have are far more detailed. They basically cover every square foot of the green and give slope value at each point.


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#21 Roadking2003

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 12:37 PM

View PostJc0, on 28 July 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 28 July 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map.  My experience is that they are of very little value.  The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks.  They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.

The ones the pros have are far more detailed. They basically cover every square foot of the green and give slope value at each point.

You still have to guess where the pin and your ball are located.

Anybody have a picture of the "Pro green books" mentioned above?  I would like to see how different they are from these;

https://progreenbook.com/

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#22 Night train

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 01:14 PM

Ban them..........they simply slow down play and these guys spend too much time the way it is. Reading a green is part of the talent it takes to play the game.

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#23 Jc0

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 28 July 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

View PostJc0, on 28 July 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 28 July 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map.  My experience is that they are of very little value.  The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks.  They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.

The ones the pros have are far more detailed. They basically cover every square foot of the green and give slope value at each point.

You still have to guess where the pin and your ball are located.

Anybody have a picture of the "Pro green books" mentioned above?  I would like to see how different they are from these;

https://progreenbook.com/

Go to the tour page to see how detailed the tour books are.

https://www.greenboo...ent-green-books

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#24 bladehunter

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 03:00 PM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 28 July 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

Another case of the R&A and USGA looking for problems where they don't exist, I guess they need to justify their existence and huge bank accounts somehow.  It's really a joke, all this talk about distance and green books ruining the game and yet scoring is has been reduced just .004 strokes per year, .004, is this really the best use of their time?

Seems they won't be happy until we're just playing hickory clubs and gutties again.

Great point.  How many in favor of throwing away green maps will also be in favor of a ball rollback and Driver head reduction ?  

Very curious to me how we pick and choose our rallies against tech.

Edited by bladehunter, 28 July 2018 - 03:01 PM.

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#25 new2g0lf

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 06:00 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 28 July 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 28 July 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

Another case of the R&A and USGA looking for problems where they don't exist, I guess they need to justify their existence and huge bank accounts somehow.  It's really a joke, all this talk about distance and green books ruining the game and yet scoring is has been reduced just .004 strokes per year, .004, is this really the best use of their time?

Seems they won't be happy until we're just playing hickory clubs and gutties again.

Great point.  How many in favor of throwing away green maps will also be in favor of a ball rollback and Driver head reduction ?  

Very curious to me how we pick and choose our rallies against tech.

I tried an app that provides similar data to the green books and it's didn't change the number of putts I had because you still have to pick the right line and hit it at the right speed for that days current green conditions.  I get that golf is a game rich in tradition and that many people are afraid of technology but how about we prove technology is really having an impact on scoring (scoring is the only thing that matters) before we go an make any more rules changes.

Just about every recent decision the USGA and R&A have made about equipment and the golf stroke have blown up in their face as both the anchored putting stroke rule and the wedge rule were complete jokes and a waste of everyones time and money.

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#26 Edaw68

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 06:35 PM

I wouldn't worry about the books, rangefinders, whatever other devices they come up with.  I'd just ruthlessly enforce a shot clock.  If they haven't put their ball in motion in the allotted time because they took too long figuring out their green reading book or whatever other random fidgeting half these guys do, then add a stroke.  No excuses.  The pros would rapidly learn what is actually needed and what isn't.

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#27 Night train

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:05 PM

Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.

Edited by Night train, 28 July 2018 - 07:06 PM.


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#28 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:10 PM

View PostNight train, on 28 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.
Just like they donít use a laser during practice rounds with slope...

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#29 rawdog

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:29 PM

So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?

I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.
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#30 rangersgoalie

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:33 PM

The tour Sherpa green books by mark long are incredible.

When you learn to locate yourself on the green, the hole locations provided lately on tour give a very reliable read.

Nothing is perfect, but especially on flattish greens or putts , the books are invaluable data.

Edited by rangersgoalie, 28 July 2018 - 09:40 PM.


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