Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * - - 3 votes

Joanne Carner's 30 year old R-90 wedge= 'busted'


116 replies to this topic

#1 mocokid

mocokid

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128438
  • Joined: 05/10/2011
  • Location:central NJ
GolfWRX Likes : 583

Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:11 PM

USGA busts legend's old wedge...can't make this sh@@T up folks.....how many USGA champions had this club in their winning bags?

http://www.golfwrx.c..._content=unused

Edited by mocokid, 12 July 2018 - 03:13 PM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 SteveNZ

SteveNZ

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 514 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 319415
  • Joined: 06/07/2014
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
GolfWRX Likes : 514

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM

USGA right on top of the big issues again - good to see. Same with the De Chambeau compass thing.

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...

2

#3 Sean2

Sean2

    #TheWRX (Callaway Trip)

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 30,032 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 29539
  • Joined: 05/23/2007
  • Location:South of Boston
  • Ebay ID:None
GolfWRX Likes : 17387

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:03 PM

I was surprised when I read this. You would think as a golfer she would have known about the groove rule.
Callaway Rogue
Callaway GBB Epic 16º/20º/24º
Callaway Steelhead XR 25º
Callaway Apex CF16 6-AW
Callaway MD3/MD-PM 54º/58º
Callaway "O" Works #7

3

#4 Dcohenour

Dcohenour

    "Kill Kill Kill the ball does not work." ~ Wriggles

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 469404
  • Joined: 05/28/2017
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Handicap:23.6
GolfWRX Likes : 698

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:05 PM

 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

USGA right on top of the big issues again - good to see. Same with the De Chambeau compass thing.

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...
Well, someone has to protect the game from all of those evil wedge people.....
WCWB Member #3
Vintage: Wilson irons, H&B Power-Bilt Citation woods, Louisville Golf Smart Persimmon Driver
Wisconsin Classic Woods & Blades Vlog: https://www.youtube....VFn6ZHLEczLYa1g
Senior Golfer Vlog: https://www.youtube....?view_as=public
Senior Bag: Clones & Hybrids - senior flex graphite

4

#5 baloo

baloo

    A Person

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140341
  • Joined: 09/28/2011
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Handicap:4
  • Ebay ID:k2baloo
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:35 PM

What a joke. Spaceship drivers? Absolutely. Solid core balls? No problem. Long, light graphite shafts? Go right ahead. Putters the size of dinner plates? Please do.

30 year old sand wedge? Now wait just a minute!

Meanwhile, Augusta National is spending millions to move the 13th tee back...

Edited by baloo, 12 July 2018 - 04:36 PM.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2i-9i - 75' Custom Wilson Dynapowers
PW, SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye

YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf

5

#6 IcemanYVR

IcemanYVR

    Amateur

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,055 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105885
  • Joined: 04/05/2010
  • Location:Vancouver, BC
  • Handicap:2.4
GolfWRX Likes : 793

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:38 PM

Give me a break, this rule has been in existence since 2010. If you haven't conformed to the rules for tournament play by now you deserve to be DQ'd.
Titleist 905R 9.5° | Callaway Diable Octane Tour 15° | Callaway Hawkeye VFT 18° | Mizuno MP-33 3-PW | Cleveland RTX-3 54 | Cleveland RTX-3 60 | Scotty Cameron Newport 2.5 Studio Select | Titleist Pro V1

6

#7 dan360

dan360

    Paisano

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,923 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 8694
  • Joined: 12/13/2005
  • Location:Olympia lowlife...
GolfWRX Likes : 6203

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:42 PM

Many old clubs are confirming.  Perhaps this one isn't but a like model is and she got bad information and/or made an honest mistake.  

Or she's a cheatin ho.    

Pick one.
As of 26APR2018

TaylorMade M1 '17 440 9° HZRDUS Yellow
TaylorMade M1 '17 3HL KuroKage
Mizuno MP-H5 Hitogami 1 iron Modus 120
Mizuno MP-33 3-PW S300 1 soft step +.5 2 flat
Mizuno MP-T10 54(bent to 52)/60 DGW  +.5 1 flat
PING Anser Jim Wells tour 34"
Callaway Chrome Soft Truvis
OUUL h2oProof stand bag black

7

#8 scomac2002

scomac2002

    Inside the Starters' Hut

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,632 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 109841
  • Joined: 06/22/2010
  • Location:The Great White North
GolfWRX Likes : 13430

Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:51 PM

 baloo, on 12 July 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

What a joke. Spaceship drivers? Absolutely. Solid core balls? No problem. Long, light graphite shafts? Go right ahead. Putters the size of dinner plates? Please do.

30 year old sand wedge? Now wait just a minute!

Meanwhile, Augusta National is spending millions to move the 13th tee back...

It's all a bit ridiculous isn't it?  Pretty obvious to me who's calling the shots and it ain't the USGA/R&A...
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!


Titleist 913 D2 12° RIP Phenom 50R
Cobra Baffler Rail F 15.5°/20°

TM '09 Rescue 25°
Ping i25 6-PW TFC 189 R

Cleveland CBX 54/12 Rotex
TM White Smoke Big Fontana
Bridgestone e5

8

#9 MadGolfer76

MadGolfer76

    Admiration is the state furthest from understanding.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,736 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 89700
  • Joined: 07/26/2009
  • Location:Maine
GolfWRX Likes : 9804

Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:02 PM

Yes, it is the right call...yes, she should have known...

But, geez, we are really going to call it "busted?" I doubt she was trying to do something underhanded. Feels like an attempt at front page sensationalism more than anything else.
Titleist 915D3 9.5/Diamana Whiteboard 63
??
Mizuno Mp-4 3-Pw/Dynamic Gold s300
Mizuno T7 52, 58/Dynamic Gold s300
Scotty Cameron Futura X7
Bridgestone Tour B XS

WITB

9

#10 Sean2

Sean2

    #TheWRX (Callaway Trip)

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 30,032 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 29539
  • Joined: 05/23/2007
  • Location:South of Boston
  • Ebay ID:None
GolfWRX Likes : 17387

Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:07 PM

 MadGolfer76, on 12 July 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Yes, it is the right call...yes, she should have known...

But, geez, we are really going to call it "busted?" I doubt she was trying to do something underhanded. Feels like an attempt at front page sensationalism more than anything else.

I agree. It was no doubt an honest mistake.

Callaway Rogue
Callaway GBB Epic 16º/20º/24º
Callaway Steelhead XR 25º
Callaway Apex CF16 6-AW
Callaway MD3/MD-PM 54º/58º
Callaway "O" Works #7

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 Fade

Fade

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 984 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 212785
  • Joined: 11/24/2012
  • Location:New England
GolfWRX Likes : 435

Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:20 PM

Did she think it would be grandmothered in?

11

#12 MadGolfer76

MadGolfer76

    Admiration is the state furthest from understanding.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,736 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 89700
  • Joined: 07/26/2009
  • Location:Maine
GolfWRX Likes : 9804

Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:23 PM

 Fade, on 12 July 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

Did she think it would be grandmothered in?

I see what you did there.
Titleist 915D3 9.5/Diamana Whiteboard 63
??
Mizuno Mp-4 3-Pw/Dynamic Gold s300
Mizuno T7 52, 58/Dynamic Gold s300
Scotty Cameron Futura X7
Bridgestone Tour B XS

WITB

12

#13 nova6868

nova6868

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,208 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140033
  • Joined: 09/27/2011
  • Location:San Antonio, TX
  • Handicap:2.1
  • Ebay ID:nova6868nova
GolfWRX Likes : 1802

Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:54 PM

I'm really glad we have a bunch of nerds in the USGA who are tackling the big issues like taking away a 79 year-old woman's wedge from the 1980s.

13

#14 NRJyzr

NRJyzr

    Séamus is 1 yr old now!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,450 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72626
  • Joined: 01/12/2009
  • Location:Minnesota, USA
  • Ebay ID:n.r.jyzr
GolfWRX Likes : 4875

Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM

 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.
The Ever Changing Bag!

Driver:  R9 SuperDeep, NV ProtoPype 80 X at 43½" --or-- SLDR White, RIP Alpha 80 X at 43.5" --or-- TEE XCG7 Beta, Motore F3 80 X, 43.5" --or-- King LTD, NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Stage 2 Tour 3w, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 42.5"
2h Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400
3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S --or-- 1-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, DGS400 (toggle 1i and 2h above)
Occasionally: 1 iron Maxfli Revolution, DGS400

SW:  Ram Tom Watson 55°, DGX ss2x
LW:  Maltby Design 60°, DGS300 tipped 1"
SW:  Ram Troon Grind 58°, Dynamic S (with 1-PW set, replacing SW/LW above)
Putter:  Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
Balls:  in no particular order...  Wilson Staff FG Tour or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV
Shoes by True Linkswear
Pure Pro grips, various colors (also trying Royal X-Treme V)

14

#15 baloo

baloo

    A Person

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140341
  • Joined: 09/28/2011
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Handicap:4
  • Ebay ID:k2baloo
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:03 PM

 NRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.

It does go farther from every reasonable comparison I've seen, although not as much as some think.

For one example, Rick Shiels hit the new ProV1 about 11 yards further than the old Professional.

In my unscientific testing, that seems about right.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2i-9i - 75' Custom Wilson Dynapowers
PW, SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye

YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf

15

#16 Ironmaster Oddities

Ironmaster Oddities

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,372 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 116695
  • Joined: 10/26/2010
  • Location:The Heartland
  • Ebay ID:elkhartmarbles
GolfWRX Likes : 653

Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:11 PM

this club is obviously one of the "original" R-90's which were repros from the 70' and '80's  Perhaps it has a dot-punched face, instead of grooves...?

16

#17 Bigarch

Bigarch

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 386 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 465696
  • Joined: 04/30/2017
  • Location:Herrin, IL
  • Handicap:4.2
GolfWRX Likes : 620

Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:30 PM

Joanne Carner is a tough 'ol gal who thinks she can still win the damn thing.  And hell who knows, she just might.  She shot her age today in a USGA event.... 79 (6 over) and was ticked off after the round and headed straight to the range. Afterwards she told the press she should be able to get around the place under par and she is determined to make the cut.  She's the only woman to win a USGA junior, amateur and open championship. I'm rooting for her.  I hope she showed up with a wedge that had a face on it like a washboard.  Screw the USGA...go Joanne!!!
  • Driver - Taylormade 2016 M1 10.5* Fujukura Pro 60
  • Fairway - Adams Fairway Blue 16* Stock Slim Tech Stiff
  • Hybrid -  Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 Fujikura S +.5"
  • 4-PW- Mizuno JPX EX Forged +1.25"
  • Wedges - 52, 56, 60 Cleveland 588 RTX 588 Apollo MatchFlex +1"
  • Putter - Cleveland Classic 10  - 34.5"

17

#18 rex235

rex235

    Major Winner

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 3,595 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 95615
  • Joined: 10/01/2009
  • Ebay ID:brsmooth235
GolfWRX Likes : 1769

Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:52 PM

Arch-

And Joanne Gunderson Carner has wanted that 4th different USGA Crown for almost a generation.

When Arnie and Jack got their US Amateur/ US Open/ US Senior Opens,  "Gundy" was talking about a US Senior Womens Open.  

Sadly, the USGA calls one of the iconic clubs in the history of the game non-conforming-since 2010.

The USGA waited a long time to hold this event.  

Better late than not at all...

18

#19 SteveNZ

SteveNZ

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 514 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 319415
  • Joined: 06/07/2014
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
GolfWRX Likes : 514

Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:54 PM

 NRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.

I chose my words carefully - it isn’t just the ball - though it is undoubtedly a factor. It’s agronomy, driver heads, long shafts etc and so on.

There is some acceptance (and Jack, Arnie, Player and Tiger apparently concur) that distance at the professional level has got out of control - but the USGA apparently have bigger fish to fry.

Edited by SteveNZ, 12 July 2018 - 10:01 PM.


19

#20 NRJyzr

NRJyzr

    Séamus is 1 yr old now!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,450 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72626
  • Joined: 01/12/2009
  • Location:Minnesota, USA
  • Ebay ID:n.r.jyzr
GolfWRX Likes : 4875

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:05 PM

 baloo, on 12 July 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

 NRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.

It does go farther from every reasonable comparison I've seen, although not as much as some think.

For one example, Rick Shiels hit the new ProV1 about 11 yards further than the old Professional.

In my unscientific testing, that seems about right.


I saw that test, too.  It's flawed due to the age of the Professionals used in the test.  

Of course, there's no way to do anything other than what he did; Titleist isn't producing the Professional anymore.  So far as we know.  ;)

A comparison of driving distance from 1999 and either 2001 or 2002 shows the distance increase to be about 5.5 yards.  Which still isn't a problem, because the wound balls used in the 20th century weren't up against the limit.


 SteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 09:54 PM, said:

I chose my words carefully - it isn’t just the ball - though it is undoubtedly a factor. It’s agronomy, driver heads, long shafts etc and so on.

There is some acceptance (and Jack, Arnie, Player and Tiger apparently concur) that distance at the professional level has got out of control - but the USGA apparently have bigger fish to fry.


I really think it's the clubhead size, and clubhead MOI, with a dash of the ever increasing club length and agronomy to taste.  The MOI provides a straighter tee shot on mishits, allowing them to really go after it.  The clubhead size plays into that, as well, giving them greater face area and helping to provide that MOI.

The 5-6 yds increase for the solid core ball is nothing.  It was available to any pro who wanted to switch in the 90s, but they were too tied to their ball/shoe/glove money to give it a shot.  Ironically, it took Tiger to get them to switch.  The irony was that the other players appeared to think the ball was giving him the advantage he had at the 2000 US Open, when it was fairly obvious it didn't have anything to do with it.  LOL

I don't think older pros talking about distance has much relevance.  Especially in Jack's case, I think he has short memory.  He's on record hitting 330-350 yard drives at age 50 with a J's Professional Weapon and a wound ball...

Edited by NRJyzr, 12 July 2018 - 10:19 PM.

The Ever Changing Bag!

Driver:  R9 SuperDeep, NV ProtoPype 80 X at 43½" --or-- SLDR White, RIP Alpha 80 X at 43.5" --or-- TEE XCG7 Beta, Motore F3 80 X, 43.5" --or-- King LTD, NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Stage 2 Tour 3w, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 42.5"
2h Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400
3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S --or-- 1-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, DGS400 (toggle 1i and 2h above)
Occasionally: 1 iron Maxfli Revolution, DGS400

SW:  Ram Tom Watson 55°, DGX ss2x
LW:  Maltby Design 60°, DGS300 tipped 1"
SW:  Ram Troon Grind 58°, Dynamic S (with 1-PW set, replacing SW/LW above)
Putter:  Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
Balls:  in no particular order...  Wilson Staff FG Tour or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV
Shoes by True Linkswear
Pure Pro grips, various colors (also trying Royal X-Treme V)

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#21 wkuo3

wkuo3

    RELEASE

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,900 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 20890
  • Joined: 10/24/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 510

Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:08 PM

They ( The U.S.G.A. ) had never specify exactly why Carner's wedge was deemed non-conforming.

I can see if she had re-grooved the face after more than 3 decades of usage, then, it might have larger opening of the grooves than allowed.
The White Horse golf course..... Fazio's Niece designed it with the familiar feel to many of his other course design, because she had been working for her uncle for quite awhile before called upon this .

I had played it many times, and it was so difficult , the owner had to soften it by even out some rolling spots ( it was criticized at one time that there was not a flat spot on the whole golf course ) and took away some trees and removed a few bunkers......  NOT easy to walk, with distance between the holes and elevation chanes.  Walking the terrain will even test a young man's love for the game.
Joanne Carner walked all her 3 rounds of practice prior to today's first round.

Hats off to these ladies, great score out of this golf course, even after the remodeling it is still tough to score well.

Edited by wkuo3, 13 July 2018 - 07:25 AM.


21

#22 84425

84425

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 68610
  • Joined: 11/02/2008
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  • Ebay ID:jurren
GolfWRX Likes : 139

Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:21 AM

Yeah, I was wondering as well why tihs club was deemed non-conforming.
Is it because the grooves are non-conforming or is it just because the club is not on the conforming clubs list?

I always thought that was the "rule" after we had a couple of years of these "strange grooves" on clubs, the governing bodies said they would not allow clubs with those grooves on them anymore, and instead of making a list of the clubs with non-conforming grooves they made a list of conforming clubs (which is completely logical, as it is much easier to compile a list of give or take 100 years of golf clubs manufactured with the same (conforming) grooves, instead of making a list of clubs produced within a timeframe of give or take 10 years that had these non-conforming grooves. That is why you will now find hardly any MacGregor of Hogan club on the list of conforming clubs, so if you wanted to play these you woud have to send your clubs to the USGA(?) to have them check the grooves and rule if they are conforming or not. At least that is how I always understood it.

22

#23 baloo

baloo

    A Person

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140341
  • Joined: 09/28/2011
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Handicap:4
  • Ebay ID:k2baloo
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:41 AM

View PostNRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

View Postbaloo, on 12 July 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostNRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

View PostSteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.

It does go farther from every reasonable comparison I've seen, although not as much as some think.

For one example, Rick Shiels hit the new ProV1 about 11 yards further than the old Professional.

In my unscientific testing, that seems about right.


I saw that test, too.  It's flawed due to the age of the Professionals used in the test.  

Of course, there's no way to do anything other than what he did; Titleist isn't producing the Professional anymore.  So far as we know.  ;)

A comparison of driving distance from 1999 and either 2001 or 2002 shows the distance increase to be about 5.5 yards.  Which still isn't a problem, because the wound balls used in the 20th century weren't up against the limit.


I agree, not a perfect test. Where'd you get 5.5 yards? The stats I have show 7 yards from 99 to 02'and another 7 from 02' to 03'. 14 yards in a 4 year period is insane. Obviously the driver changed a lot in that time too; 03 was about when they reached the COR limit.
Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2i-9i - 75' Custom Wilson Dynapowers
PW, SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye

YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf

23

#24 NRJyzr

NRJyzr

    Séamus is 1 yr old now!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,450 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72626
  • Joined: 01/12/2009
  • Location:Minnesota, USA
  • Ebay ID:n.r.jyzr
GolfWRX Likes : 4875

Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:57 AM

View Postbaloo, on 13 July 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

View PostNRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

View Postbaloo, on 12 July 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostNRJyzr, on 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

View PostSteveNZ, on 12 July 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

But the distance the ball is travelling? Nothing to see here...


That's because there isn't anything to see.   The ball isnt a problem.

It does go farther from every reasonable comparison I've seen, although not as much as some think.

For one example, Rick Shiels hit the new ProV1 about 11 yards further than the old Professional.

In my unscientific testing, that seems about right.


I saw that test, too.  It's flawed due to the age of the Professionals used in the test.  

Of course, there's no way to do anything other than what he did; Titleist isn't producing the Professional anymore.  So far as we know.  ;)

A comparison of driving distance from 1999 and either 2001 or 2002 shows the distance increase to be about 5.5 yards.  Which still isn't a problem, because the wound balls used in the 20th century weren't up against the limit.


I agree, not a perfect test. Where'd you get 5.5 yards? The stats I have show 7 yards from 99 to 02'and another 7 from 02' to 03'. 14 yards in a 4 year period is insane. Obviously the driver changed a lot in that time too; 03 was about when they reached the COR limit.


I compared driving distance for players who were listed in both years.  I know some didn't switch right away, there were a few holdouts who stuck with wound balls, though I got the impression they were largely on the Senior Tour; since I didn't have any way to check who actually switched from wound to solid, I went with the entire tour in each year as my starting point.

I suppose I could have excluded Furyk, who went from Strata to Strata, and amusingly gained a bit over 6 yards.   LOL   (or O'Meara, also)

The great irony (IMHO)...  Tiger spawned the en masse change during 2000, switching to the Tour Accuracy.  His driving distance in 2002 was a whopping quarter yard more than in 1999.  LOL

COR max was reached a bit earlier.  You could argue it was done with the TiSI, since it was the club used to establish the .830 limit.  Even if it was "only" .817 or .813 (heard both reported).   :) Some of the heads right around 2001 were bumping the limit, lot of discussion at the time.

I've always thought the 2003 spike was due to the beginning of launch monitor usage.  I remember getting a bit of time on a monitor when I was still using the Maxfli M3 golfballs, which was right around that time.

Edited by NRJyzr, 13 July 2018 - 08:08 AM.

The Ever Changing Bag!

Driver:  R9 SuperDeep, NV ProtoPype 80 X at 43½" --or-- SLDR White, RIP Alpha 80 X at 43.5" --or-- TEE XCG7 Beta, Motore F3 80 X, 43.5" --or-- King LTD, NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Stage 2 Tour 3w, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 42.5"
2h Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400
3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S --or-- 1-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, DGS400 (toggle 1i and 2h above)
Occasionally: 1 iron Maxfli Revolution, DGS400

SW:  Ram Tom Watson 55°, DGX ss2x
LW:  Maltby Design 60°, DGS300 tipped 1"
SW:  Ram Troon Grind 58°, Dynamic S (with 1-PW set, replacing SW/LW above)
Putter:  Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
Balls:  in no particular order...  Wilson Staff FG Tour or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV
Shoes by True Linkswear
Pure Pro grips, various colors (also trying Royal X-Treme V)

24

#25 baloo

baloo

    A Person

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140341
  • Joined: 09/28/2011
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Handicap:4
  • Ebay ID:k2baloo
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:23 AM

Makes sense, I'm just using the average driving average for each year. I also forgot to mention if you expand the window sightly more the distance change is crazy. 20 yards from 97 to 04'. Yikes.

Although, the change for existing players over that time is lower, will have to run the numbers after work to verify that. But I could see how your numbers would be lower if you don't include new blood... Problem on existing players only is I would want to account for aging and some other things. But at that point, it's way more work than it's worth.

Point is, USGA screwed the pooch big time IMO... Driver COR and cc limits should have been set much lower. I don't know enough about ball design, but they could have done something about that too. Oh well, just 25 years too late on it. But I'm quite sure I'd like watching tour players with the old equipment on traditional tracks more than the new stuff.

Edited by baloo, 13 July 2018 - 08:31 AM.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2i-9i - 75' Custom Wilson Dynapowers
PW, SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye

YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf

25

#26 wkuo3

wkuo3

    RELEASE

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,900 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 20890
  • Joined: 10/24/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 510

Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

I might bag my R-90 next week to see what's the fuzz was... But mine has the original grooves in it.

I never "re-groove" with a hand tool to avoid the infraction, not that it matters cause I don't play competition golf.  I do have another old Wilson wedge which was obvious to the naked eyes that this one had widened grooves in the bottom 4-5 score lines.

26

#27 BIG STU

BIG STU

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,809 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 284204
  • Joined: 11/14/2013
  • Location:Garden City Beach SC
  • Handicap:5.0
GolfWRX Likes : 26296

Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:14 PM

Ok you guys on here know I am the biggest detractor of the USGA on WRX period. After all I did start the Outlaw Golf Association and plainly state at any time "Screw the USGA" and R&A for that matter.

I own 2 R-90s one is pristine and one is battle scarred. Now I know what the USGA says that measurements have to be taken with sospicated equipment etc under a microscope etc. That is their tale I sit on mine. Now I know I have some rudimentary ways of measuring things but from my ways I can not see any difference between the R-90 grooves and my set of 2013 Callaway X forged irons and the Callaway irons are "conforming" according to the USGA.

Like 84425 said a club has to be submitted for approval. If it is not submitted to begin with then it is not on the conforming list. My contention has always been why then if it was legal on the date of manufacture to USGA specs then why is it suddenly illegal? or non conforming. I know when they passed the rule it caused a lot of stir in this area on the Mini Tours. There was actually a guy down here that talked to a lot of us. I had him look at a beloved 252 Vokey 60 that I carried for years. He told me that it was so worn that he could not measure it. He told me if I could find a pristine model then it could be measured. Foot Note here most of the mini tours delayed the implementation of the rule for 2 years because as the director of the Sunbelt Senior Tour stated most of us were not on a club contract and could not afford to replace wedges

Now just because a submitted model is tested and approved does not mean all of the clubs of that type are legal. One WRXer from South Carolina can tell you the story on that with a set of Vega irons. If he pops up on here maybe he can and will give the details.

Now in the case of Joanne Carner I can see a couple of things and trying to be as objective as possible which is hard for me to do with any bonehead thing the USGA is involved in.

One the wedge has never been submitted and approved
Second it may have been regrooved at several times over it's life in fact if she has had it for 30 plus years I am sure of it.

I know some of the folks in the story section made some rude comments. Now remember she is 79 years old and has not played comp in decades so she may have honesty not given it any thought. I also thought the Legends part of this was really a separate thing and mainly an exhibition  Now another question I have is why was she singled out and mentioned and the other equipment violations were not for other players?  Yeah rules are rules and supposed to keep things fair but IMHO this whole thing is absurd. This is my take on the whole thing FWIW
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
5 Wood TM V- Steel 18* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid Adams Peanut 22*  Pro Launch Red
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- 1985 PGA Tommy Armour Ironmaster
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer or Vintage Titleist Mini Staff
Vintage-- Too many variables to list and I get tired of updating this thing!
Founding Father of the Outlaw golf Association Member #1--Screw the USGA play what you want to
Home of Redneck Hippie golf where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stop

27

#28 BIG STU

BIG STU

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,809 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 284204
  • Joined: 11/14/2013
  • Location:Garden City Beach SC
  • Handicap:5.0
GolfWRX Likes : 26296

Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:20 PM

View Postwkuo3, on 13 July 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

I might bag my R-90 next week to see what's the fuzz was... But mine has the original grooves in it.

I never "re-groove" with a hand tool to avoid the infraction, not that it matters cause I don't play competition golf.  I do have another old Wilson wedge which was obvious to the naked eyes that this one had widened grooves in the bottom 4-5 score lines.
Since you said that I went out to my building and got one of my R-90s and it will get played with the vintage clubs this weekend which will include the 1958 Mac Diamondbacks which I presume are also non conforming----- Hey what a way to poke the middle finger at the USGA----
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
5 Wood TM V- Steel 18* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid Adams Peanut 22*  Pro Launch Red
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- 1985 PGA Tommy Armour Ironmaster
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer or Vintage Titleist Mini Staff
Vintage-- Too many variables to list and I get tired of updating this thing!
Founding Father of the Outlaw golf Association Member #1--Screw the USGA play what you want to
Home of Redneck Hippie golf where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stop

28

#29 dlygrisse

dlygrisse

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,904 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 16702
  • Joined: 07/21/2006
  • Location:Kansas
GolfWRX Likes : 6181

Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:29 PM

This is why the groove rule is such a travesty.  This club in question is truly one of the most historic clubs in the history of the game, it has been used to win many tour events around the world for over 40 years.  It has been in the bag of one of the greatest female players of all time for over 30 years, Nicklaus used one for a while, as did many of the other greats,  it is now illegal to use in a USGA event?  THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

The groove rule is the dumbest thing the USGA ever did.  That and letting driver tech get out of control, especially since it really only benefits the long hitters and makes them exponentially longer while the average guy picked up very little.  The pros are a very small percentage of who plays the game, why don't we think about the masses?
Callaway GBB
Callaway V Series 3w, HW
Callaway Steelhead 4 hybrid
Ping G 4-U
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
Vokey 58 M grind
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Jones Utility
Ball, KSig or a bunch of ProV's I won in a charity scramble.  
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

29

#30 BIG STU

BIG STU

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,809 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 284204
  • Joined: 11/14/2013
  • Location:Garden City Beach SC
  • Handicap:5.0
GolfWRX Likes : 26296

Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:39 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 13 July 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

This is why the groove rule is such a travesty.  This club in question is truly one of the most historic clubs in the history of the game, it has been used to win many tour events around the world for over 40 years.  It has been in the bag of one of the greatest female players of all time for over 30 years, Nicklaus used one for a while, as did many of the other greats,  it is now illegal to use in a USGA event?  THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

The groove rule is the dumbest thing the USGA ever did.  That and letting driver tech get out of control, especially since it really only benefits the long hitters and makes them exponentially longer while the average guy picked up very little.  The pros are a very small percentage of who plays the game, why don't we think about the masses?
I agree with you 110%--- And I will tell you something else--- I can spin the modern conforming wedges with a modern ball maybe better than I could a R-90 with a balata ball.

Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
5 Wood TM V- Steel 18* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid Adams Peanut 22*  Pro Launch Red
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- 1985 PGA Tommy Armour Ironmaster
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer or Vintage Titleist Mini Staff
Vintage-- Too many variables to list and I get tired of updating this thing!
Founding Father of the Outlaw golf Association Member #1--Screw the USGA play what you want to
Home of Redneck Hippie golf where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stop

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

30



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors