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Are you using your driver at 17/1700?


62 replies to this topic

#1 pitchinwedge

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:26 AM

Clearly, the "loft-up" marketing campaign is dead.  More often than not, the mention of 17/1700 elicits some bashing or at the very least a flip of the hand from the experts.  But looking back at past few years, I'm wondering if some of us have made a mistake by going back to more traditional launch conditions?

So then, is anyone still playing 17/1700 at launch (or trying to) and what club/shaft are you using to do it?

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#2 MadGolfer76

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:35 AM

That was a detrimental campaign, in my view. Especially because that company led people to believe it was achievable just by picking up a different club.

Edited by MadGolfer76, 10 July 2018 - 11:36 AM.

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#3 erock9174

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:36 AM

Always wondered. Is the 17/1700 ideal for all swing speeds or just the X flex crowd ?
Driver: Taylormade M3 12* HZRDUS T800
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#4 Booker

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:40 AM

The only one I've seen close to these launch conditions is long drive contestants. I dont know a tour pro that launches it that high. Rors and Thomas hit moon balls and there no were near 17 launch. My answer is no, I shoot for 13-14 launch 2200rpm of spin around 167-170 ballspeed.

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#5 gvogel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:05 PM

View Posterock9174, on 10 July 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

Always wondered. Is the 17/1700 ideal for all swing speeds or just the X flex crowd ?

Just the X flex crowd.

On Sundays, I used to play hickory

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#6 LaymanM

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:13 PM

You better have 160+ ball speed imo.  High launch low spin is seductive but it can cause the ball to just fall out of the sky too.
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#7 GMR2iron

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:14 PM

View Postgvogel, on 10 July 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

View Posterock9174, on 10 July 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

Always wondered. Is the 17/1700 ideal for all swing speeds or just the X flex crowd ?

Just the X flex crowd.
ive seen a lot of x flex crowd guys and tour guys numbers. I have not seen ONE person hit those numbers, or even close to them. Pure marketing BS!
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#8 nsxguy

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:28 PM

Welllllll, FWIW, flightscope seems to think, for carry and roll out, 17/1700 is pretty much ideal at many swing speeds.

Now, if can certainly be problematic to GET those numbers and/or getting to them causes too many inconsistencies in dispersion, then the additional launch and lower spin rate are pretty much irrelevant. :dntknw:
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#9 Albatross85

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:36 PM

13* and 2100rpm here. 178 ball speed. Been down that road. Launch monitor clubs don't work on the course for me. I know where my driver is going and if its off the map its 100% my fault. The 17/1700 clubs i had were not RELIABLE.
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#10 puresurfr

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:54 PM

I agree, I can get 16-17* of launch and 1900-2100 of backspin on trackman and it gives me the best numbers for longest drive but I have found that by keeping my launch at 16-17 and increasing backspin to 2300-2500 I actually find way more fairways and have better scoring rounds.

* haha seriously you have seen a lot of numbers and never seen 17* /1700 backspin ????  thats the equivalent of saying that you have watched and played golf for years and have never seen a birdie !


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#11 nsxguy

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:07 PM

Oh, and for those who think they can't get 17/17,,,,,,,,, try teeing the ball a tad higher and making the same swing. Contact just a tad above the sweet spot.

HIGH flight and LOW spin,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ;)
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#12 The Mad Bomber

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:49 PM

TaylorMade marketing...what can be said that hasn't been said already? Their marketing department is trash. They're snake oil salesman. 17/1700 was a stupid campaign. +17 Yards'ier' or whatever was a strong contender for the dumbest ever. Twist Farce is a joke. Tmag marketing is the one thing that chaps my a** more than it should but every time I see a rep at a demo day explaining how the twisty farce face is going to perform so much better than (insert other driver here) to some complete hack, I want to kick his tent over.

My spinny, low lofted (7.5*) 915 comes off at 12*/2300 and hits a lot of fairways and isn't leaving the bag anytime soon. Bottom line - don't waste your time chasing 17/1700

- The Angry Bomber

P.S. edit: I think TM makes top notch clubs. Absolutely top-tier product. It's just their stupid marketing...

Edited by The Mad Bomber, 10 July 2018 - 01:56 PM.

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#13 soulciccia

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:54 PM

View PostAlbatross85, on 10 July 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

13* and 2100rpm here. 178 ball speed. Been down that road. Launch monitor clubs don't work on the course for me. I know where my driver is going and if its off the map its 100% my fault. The 17/1700 clubs i had were not RELIABLE.

That's absolutely true
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#14 caniac6

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:58 PM

I have absolutely no clue what numbers I have. My driver is six years old, and I hit it far enough and straight enough to play from our blue tees, 6700 yards. I try to demo new drivers on the course so I can have a comparison based on actual playing results. So far, I haven't found anything that is significantly better.

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#15 VA_Astra

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:35 PM

Ive got mine at 16* and around 18-1900 RPM. When my swing is on, I like it, when its off, I have a 3w and a 2iron...lol

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#16 Chrisetanu

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:12 PM

The 17/1700 is suppose to be the ideal achievable number for the longest distance at most all swing speeds. Play with the trajectory optimizer on the flightscope site...

I play very close to those specs (can even launch higher with lower spin if I want) and can say it is the longest for me *if the course isn't wet. I have had balls plug in the fairway of wet courses because of the height.

Backspin does = control, at the sacrifice of distance

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#17 LaymanM

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:35 PM

Yes 17/1700 is ideal in a vacuum.  It IS the longest flight.  However like Crossfield says, you gotta be able to play golf, not launch monitor.  Like him or hate em, he is right.
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#18 MadGolfer76

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:56 PM

View Postnsxguy, on 10 July 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Welllllll, FWIW, flightscope seems to think, for carry and roll out, 17/1700 is pretty much ideal at many swing speeds.


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#19 Tasals

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:50 AM

That was for the SLDR, and really the way TM designed that thing you needed all the help getting the ball in the air and staying there you could. They had tour players lofting up for usable drives. Nearly no sweet spot, and knuckle balls or dive bomb balls if you caught it slightly to heavily off the toe. Still probably the longest drive I ever hit was with that thing, but its not a playable conditions. I have some knuckle ball tendencies on my M1 still but nothing to the damaging effect that the SLDR could give you.

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#20 b.mattay

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:28 AM

I am more than happy with my 10-12/2600-3000. Good luck finding the planet with the 17/1700 combo. :taunt:


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#21 Valtiel

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:16 AM

It was just yet another thing that the marketing team could get people to focus on. Throw some numbers out there and send some pamphlets to your dealers so they know what stories to tell when fitting and you've given the average distance obsessed golf consumer something to focus on outside of that boring stuff like consistency and shotmaking.

As was pointed out, the SLDR was a massively low MOI driver which meant that the gear effects from higher strikes would create absolute knuckle balls allowing you to loft way up without your spin going through the roof. This was all to distract from the fact that the low MOI was going to make the driver significantly more punishing on anything that wasn't a perfect strike and that this would otherwise be the worst possible driver for the average golfer. Overall it was a brilliant campaign because it saved a driver that was a terrible fit for the masses.
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#22 bladehunter

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:19 AM

I see more  than 1700 spin with my putter.  In what world is this possible
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#23 cxx

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:14 AM

View PostValtiel, on 11 July 2018 - 02:16 AM, said:

It was just yet another thing that the marketing team could get people to focus on. Throw some numbers out there and send some pamphlets to your dealers so they know what stories to tell when fitting and you've given the average distance obsessed golf consumer something to focus on outside of that boring stuff like consistency and shotmaking.

As was pointed out, the SLDR was a massively low MOI driver which meant that the gear effects from higher strikes would create absolute knuckle balls allowing you to loft way up without your spin going through the roof. This was all to distract from the fact that the low MOI was going to make the driver significantly more punishing on anything that wasn't a perfect strike and that this would otherwise be the worst possible driver for the average golfer. Overall it was a brilliant campaign because it saved a driver that was a terrible fit for the masses.

I was shocked at the number of low speed old guys that went with this driver.  They struggled to hit those drivers for a year at least.

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#24 sfdoddsy

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

If you have low spin you don't need a high swing speed . You do need high launch.

As mentioned above, when you plug the figures into the Flightscope calculator, 17/1700 or thereabouts does maximise distance at any swing speed. A higher launch ekes out a few more yards.

Most people don't realise how high a 17* launch actually is.

When swinging the driver well I get pretty close to those numbers. Trackman also confirms they are pretty much ideal.

It's why I still get reasonable distance as I age, even though my swing speed has plunged. And why I can still almost keep up with quicker, stronger younger hitters.

But you need to have the right kind of swing.

I have a very smooth (some would say sedate) swing on my good days. I hit up on the ball (4* or so). And I have a natural draw.

If any part of my swing is off then launch is too high or low, spin goes up, and distance plummets.

Lower backspin also puts a premium on accuracy. That's why pros aim for more spin. They don't need the distance.

I think 17/1700 is worth trying for, if your swing suits.

It isn't ideal if you are a club ho though. Much as I try to convince myself otherwise,  I get pretty much the same numbers from every head and shaft I try.

http://www.golfwrx.c...-vs-ltd-vs-gbb/

Edited by sfdoddsy, 11 July 2018 - 08:31 AM.

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#25 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:34 AM

Another guy at 14* and 2100-2400.  Swing 109, ball 164

I have two Adams LD 9015d and 9016d heads in 10.5 but when tested in them my spin is only 1500 or 1600.   Low wild runners, fall out of sky too often

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#26 Shipwreck

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:44 AM

I personally like what Crossfield says about chasing those launch monitor numbers, or any numbers for that matter. (Just gonna paraphrase here) Hitting in a bay is all well and good and you might even hit the numbers you’re looking for, but the only thing that matters is how you swing it on the course with real trouble in play.

I’m pretty sure that on a LM, my current head and shaft set up wouldn’t be ideal for me but I like the way it performs on course. I like the smooth feel of the shaft and the higher ball flight. Could I gain some yardage by being custom fit? Sure. But how many times have we seen/heard people talk about how they hit it great on the range and the numbers were perfect only to have it turn to shite when they actually have to hit the ball on the course?
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#27 OsnolaKinnard

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:03 AM

View PostAlbatross85, on 10 July 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

13* and 2100rpm here. 178 ball speed. Been down that road. Launch monitor clubs don't work on the course for me. I know where my driver is going and if its off the map its 100% my fault. The 17/1700 clubs i had were not RELIABLE.

Agreed 100%.  I have had 3 drivers that were "launch monitor perfect"...and while I did hit some bombs...I hit a lot of stinkers too...getting to a 13-15* launxh and 2200-2400 spin seems to do the trick for me.


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#28 1Mordrid1

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:45 AM

The problem with 17/1700 for a lot of golfers with moderate to high swing speeds is that to get a 17 degree launch with 1700 spin the driver loft would have to be around 8 degrees with a +6-8 angle of attack. While this may be great for distance, it is detrimental to accuracy and consistency.

So if you want to try to wow people on the range, those numbers are worth chasing. But IMO if you want to hit fairways and score, you should be chasing on course results, not launch monitor numbers.
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#29 azkaevolution

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:24 AM

View PostThe Mad Bomber, on 10 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

TaylorMade marketing...what can be said that hasn't been said already? Their marketing department is trash. They're snake oil salesman. 17/1700 was a stupid campaign. +17 Yards'ier' or whatever was a strong contender for the dumbest ever. Twist Farce is a joke. Tmag marketing is the one thing that chaps my a** more than it should but every time I see a rep at a demo day explaining how the twisty farce face is going to perform so much better than (insert other driver here) to some complete hack, I want to kick his tent over.

My spinny, low lofted (7.5*) 915 comes off at 12*/2300 and hits a lot of fairways and isn't leaving the bag anytime soon. Bottom line - don't waste your time chasing 17/1700

- The Angry Bomber

P.S. edit: I think TM makes top notch clubs. Absolutely top-tier product. It's just their stupid marketing...

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#30 The Mad Bomber

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:34 AM

View Postazkaevolution, on 11 July 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

View PostThe Mad Bomber, on 10 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

TaylorMade marketing...what can be said that hasn't been said already? Their marketing department is trash. They're snake oil salesman. 17/1700 was a stupid campaign. +17 Yards'ier' or whatever was a strong contender for the dumbest ever. Twist Farce is a joke. Tmag marketing is the one thing that chaps my a** more than it should but every time I see a rep at a demo day explaining how the twisty farce face is going to perform so much better than (insert other driver here) to some complete hack, I want to kick his tent over.

My spinny, low lofted (7.5*) 915 comes off at 12*/2300 and hits a lot of fairways and isn't leaving the bag anytime soon. Bottom line - don't waste your time chasing 17/1700

- The Angry Bomber

P.S. edit: I think TM makes top notch clubs. Absolutely top-tier product. It's just their stupid marketing...

Mr crossfield?

Hahaha. Nope!
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