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Swing Weight Changes Question


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#1 lincolnduff

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

Edited by lincolnduff, 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM.


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#2 Socrates

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:11 AM

Not without changing the weight of the heads and using a lighter shaft.  Not going to make the heads lighter without grinding off a lot of weight and a lighter shaft will only get you a couple of points, so your fitter is right.
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#3 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:25 AM

And a lighter shaft isn't always a reliable way to reduce swing weight either.  And not always a good idea due to the reduction in club static weight.

Sometimes one can reduce the weight by drilling material out from the bottom of the hosel bore - but few builders will take on that job.  Although you might find a local machine shop that might do the work.  Might be able to drop about 3-4 SW pts that way depending on the design.   If you do decide to try that, get some more detailed advice from someone here before taking it to the machine shop.

Unfortunately, if you need a longer playing length, finding a used set that's shorter than you need rarely works out all that well for this reason.   A set that came out of the factory at the longer, desired length has a good chance of using a lighter weight set of heads that is better suited for the longer length.

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#4 soulciccia

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

If c-taper 130x are fine for you, then forget to drop sw points by using lighter shafts!
mp are plated, so drilling the heads is neither an option.
going from d3 to d9 means 1" longer...are you sure you need such long clubs?
have you tried them at this length?
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#5 lincolnduff

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:16 PM

Haven't tried these specific ones, but just went through a fitting with a mizuno rep where he recommended an inch long and 2 degrees up. My torso is very long and I'm 6'4, he said I really should be at 2 inches, but in reality one is fine. I had a friend that had the set he fit me into with the exact shafts, so I was hoping to extend those, but it looks like the factory would just use lighter heads. Sounds like I'm SOL, unless I want to play them at their stock length.


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#6 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:02 PM

View Postrusty04, on 10 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

mp are plated, so drilling the heads is neither an option.

The drilling is done inside the bore.  Plating isn't an issue.

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sounds like I'm SOL, unless I want to play them at their stock length.

Well, no guarantees but if you don't mind being a bit non-traditional and adventurous, you could try the following.

Build the longest iron to 'standard' length.  Then use 3/8" length increments through the set (instead of the traditional 1/2").   The SW's will gradually increase as you go through the set to the shorter irons but it will come close to an MOI matched set (instead of a SW matched set).  Also, you gain length in the shorter irons - where you would most likely run into problems if you played the whole set at standard length.

Edited by Stuart G., 10 July 2018 - 01:03 PM.


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#7 soulciccia

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:36 PM

he said you should use 2" longer...so, assuming a standard d3 sw, that means heads to be almost 30 grams lighter than std...it would mean a 210gr 3 iron head...lighter than most 3 woods..just unreal
I would say, 1" longer assumes itself at least d5 of swingweight, even with 7 grams lighter heads.
the other funny (and unrealistic) thing is that 2" longer and 2° upright equals to 6° upright in longer irons...that's just crazy
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#8 soulciccia

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:39 PM

View PostStuart G., on 10 July 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

View Postrusty04, on 10 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

mp are plated, so drilling the heads is neither an option.

The drilling is done inside the bore.  Plating isn't an issue.

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sounds like I'm SOL, unless I want to play them at their stock length.

Well, no guarantees but if you don't mind being a bit non-traditional and adventurous, you could try the following.

Build the longest iron to 'standard' length.  Then use 3/8" length increments through the set (instead of the traditional 1/2").   The SW's will gradually increase as you go through the set to the shorter irons but it will come close to an MOI matched set (instead of a SW matched set).  Also, you gain length in the shorter irons - where you would most likely run into problems if you played the whole set at standard length.

removing all that weight only drilling the hosel?

very good advice that one to play with 3/8" length increments.
D callaway razr fit xtreme 9,5° w/ px blue 6.5
W titleist 906 f2 15° w/ aldila nv 95x
di titleist 503h 19° w/ dg x100
i ping s56 #4-pw w/ dg x100
w ping tour-s 52.12-56.12-60.ts w/ dg s400
p odyssey white hot 2ball

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#9 bluedot

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:07 PM

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

1. Were/are the clubs standard length?
2. How much do you want to lengthen them?
3. There is no way to add length without increasing swingweight unless you do something else at the same time.
4. All of that said, and IF you are going to go ahead and lengthen them, you might withhold judgement until you hit them; what you are worried about may or may not be a problem.  You say in the OP that D9 "would be way too heavy", but you'd only be changing the actual weight of the club by a few grams.  Given that swingweight was devised as a way to MATCH clubs within a set, you MIGHT find the difference to be unimportant.  I've played irons at +1" for years; I leave the swingweight stuff to the manufacturers and I never sweat it or notice it.  I know this is not a popular view on GolfWRX, but that scale is the most misunderstood and misused part of club fitting.  Just my opinion...

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#10 Bigarch

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:56 PM

View Postbluedot, on 10 July 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

1. Were/are the clubs standard length?
2. How much do you want to lengthen them?
3. There is no way to add length without increasing swingweight unless you do something else at the same time.
4. All of that said, and IF you are going to go ahead and lengthen them, you might withhold judgement until you hit them; what you are worried about may or may not be a problem.  You say in the OP that D9 "would be way too heavy", but you'd only be changing the actual weight of the club by a few grams.  Given that swingweight was devised as a way to MATCH clubs within a set, you MIGHT find the difference to be unimportant.  I've played irons at +1" for years; I leave the swingweight stuff to the manufacturers and I never sweat it or notice it.  I know this is not a popular view on GolfWRX, but that scale is the most misunderstood and misused part of club fitting.  Just my opinion...

I'm going to back this up.  I'm 6'5" and also long in the torso (31 inch inseam).  I've played plus 1" and plus1.5"  in my irons for nearly 20 years.  The biggest mistake you can make is worrying about the swingweight.  I've tried everything over the years including:
  • Heavier grip
  • Lead tape under the grip
  • Denser and heavier grip tape
  • Counter weights in the butt
  • Lighter weight shafts
  • Take mass out of the clubheads
All you end up really doing is trying to  "fool the scale" to get the swingweights you want.  And what you end up with is a club that is too heavy in its overall weight...you slow down your swing speed...that screws up the playability of the shaft...etc, etc, etc...You end up creating too many additional issues.  You can take a telephone pole and make it swingweight D2...but you can't hit a golf ball with it.

Lengthen them and then go hit em.  I think you will be surprised at how quickly you adjust.  And getting the correct length where you can center the ball on the face consistently will pay far greater dividends than chasing that swingweight.

Edited by Bigarch, 10 July 2018 - 10:00 PM.

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#11 Stuart G.

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:25 AM

View Postrusty04, on 10 July 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

removing all that weight only drilling the hosel?

Depending on the design it can be possible to remove 7-9 gm's that way.

View PostBigarch, on 10 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

Heavier grip
  • Lead tape under the grip
  • Denser and heavier grip tape
  • Counter weights in the butt
  • Lighter weight shafts
  • Take mass out of the clubheads
All you end up really doing is trying to  "fool the scale" to get the swingweights you want.

Correct about the first 3, wrong about the last two.

Well, lighter shaft may or may not lower the swing weight - it depends on balance point - but it never will "fool the scale".


How much the heavier swing weight may or may not be a problem - and how much of a problem - is completely dependent on the individual.  Some will be able to manage it with no problem at all.  Some others it will completely mess up their swing.  But most will fall somewhere in between those two extremes. But yes, you never know where until you give it a try.  But the main point is good - don't get overly focused on (or afraid of) Swing weight values, it's the results that mater, nothing more.   So make sure there really is a problem before you try to fix it.

Edited by Stuart G., 11 July 2018 - 03:28 AM.


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#12 soulciccia

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 05:12 AM

what sw were you older irons?
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#13 lincolnduff

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:19 AM

My old irons are D3 and were factory built by muzuno at +1/2inch. (I've grown a tad since then) The fitter is worried that at D9, I'll lose 3-5 MPH club head speed and drop distance down considerably. Distance isn't that big of factor, but he said getting them from the factory at the desired length with the lighter heads will keep the club head speed where it is.

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#14 Kleab

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:46 AM

View PostBigarch, on 10 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 10 July 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

1. Were/are the clubs standard length?
2. How much do you want to lengthen them?
3. There is no way to add length without increasing swingweight unless you do something else at the same time.
4. All of that said, and IF you are going to go ahead and lengthen them, you might withhold judgement until you hit them; what you are worried about may or may not be a problem.  You say in the OP that D9 "would be way too heavy", but you'd only be changing the actual weight of the club by a few grams.  Given that swingweight was devised as a way to MATCH clubs within a set, you MIGHT find the difference to be unimportant.  I've played irons at +1" for years; I leave the swingweight stuff to the manufacturers and I never sweat it or notice it.  I know this is not a popular view on GolfWRX, but that scale is the most misunderstood and misused part of club fitting.  Just my opinion...

I'm going to back this up.  I'm 6'5" and also long in the torso (31 inch inseam).  I've played plus 1" and plus1.5"  in my irons for nearly 20 years.  The biggest mistake you can make is worrying about the swingweight.  I've tried everything over the years including:
  • Heavier grip
  • Lead tape under the grip
  • Denser and heavier grip tape
  • Counter weights in the butt
  • Lighter weight shafts
  • Take mass out of the clubheads
All you end up really doing is trying to  "fool the scale" to get the swingweights you want.  And what you end up with is a club that is too heavy in its overall weight...you slow down your swing speed...that screws up the playability of the shaft...etc, etc, etc...You end up creating too many additional issues.  You can take a telephone pole and make it swingweight D2...but you can't hit a golf ball with it.

Lengthen them and then go hit em.  I think you will be surprised at how quickly you adjust.  And getting the correct length where you can center the ball on the face consistently will pay far greater dividends than chasing that swingweight.


These gentlemen are correct. Swingweight is really, really useful for solving a few very specific problems - however - it is often used (and abused) to try to fix a wide range of problems that are often unrelated to swingweight. Instead of finding positive results, you will only find yourself frustrated.

I am a relatively inexperienced golfer and I won't claim to know much about about club building, but what I do understand is physics. To understand why swingweight can help your game, you need to understand the basic principles of levers (load force, effort force, fulcrum), angular motion, and inertia. I've thought about doing a full write-up on swingweight, but for this post I will (try to) keep it super simple.

A golf swing is a combination of levers. The one lever we're looking at right now is the golf club.


Posted Image


Lever = golf club
Load force = golfer's arms (another lever)
Fulcrum = balance point
Effort force = clubhead speed

Modifying a club's swingweight moves the balance point (or the fulcrum) which changes the load force required to exert a certain amount of effort force. Adding 10g of lead tape under your grip would shift the balance point toward the grip. Basically, this means that you "should" be able get a higher clubhead speed with less effort - which sounds great - but most of that benefit is negated by inertia. An object at rest (or in motion) remains at rest (or in motion) unless acted on by an outside force. The larger the mass of the object, the greater the force required.

So, why do we care about a solution that partially negates its own benefit? Because increased swing speed isn't what we should be trying to gain by modifying swingweight. In the scenario with the lead tape under the grip, the inertia that diminishes the swing speed can also be used to slow down your hands and gain better control over your swing. In other words, it can make it harder for you to mess up your own swing. Finding a swingweight that fits your swing can sometimes be the key to a more consistent golf game.

Soooo...
-If you feel like you can't control the clubhead to get back to (relatively) square at impact, then you might benefit from a change in swingweight.
-If you over-rotate or under-rotate your hands during your swing, then you might benefit from a change in swingweight.
-If you think your clubs feel too heavy and you feel tired 11 holes into your round, this is more likely an issue with the static weight of the club, not the swing weight.

There are so many other factors that determine how much force is exerted on the golf ball that I wouldn't get too worked up over making sure every club in your bag has the exact same swing weight. I play my driver at C0, my fairway wood at C6, my hybrids at C8, and my irons/wedges at D1. They feel great, so I'm not going to overthink it. If a club doesn't seem to be working for you, then there is nothing wrong with having a fitter help you fiddle with the swingweight. If nothing changes, then move on to other factors that have greater influence on performance (flex, shaft profile, loft, etc.)

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. It is the middle of the night and I barely make sense in the middle of the day.
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#15 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:08 AM

View PostKleab, on 12 July 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

A golf swing is a combination of levers. The one lever we're looking at right now is the golf club.

Fulcrum = balance point

Sorry but I think you are overthinking things a bit in the wrong direction.  The balance point is not really any kind of fulcrum during the swing and that's not the best approach (IMO) when trying to understand swing weight.

Yes, the SW scale does have a fulcrum and it is a measure of balance BUT the intent of the SW scale is very different from what it really is.  The intent was actually to allow the builder to easily (if not completely accurately) match the MOI of the clubs about an axis at the grip (which is the real point about which rotational effort is applied).  BUT it was only designed to do that in very limited contexts because balance and MOI are not really the same.  It's just that balance is much easier to measure than actual MOI (at least back then).

The SW scale (and values) are often misused because people don't understand the limited contexts for which the scale was designed to handle and properly gauge MOI matching.  When used outside those specific contexts, the accuracy of the scale to match MOI severely decreases.

Edited by Stuart G., 12 July 2018 - 04:11 AM.


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#16 Kleab

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:48 PM

View PostStuart G., on 12 July 2018 - 04:08 AM, said:

View PostKleab, on 12 July 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

A golf swing is a combination of levers. The one lever we're looking at right now is the golf club.

Fulcrum = balance point

Sorry but I think you are overthinking things a bit in the wrong direction.  The balance point is not really any kind of fulcrum during the swing and that's not the best approach (IMO) when trying to understand swing weight.

Yes, the SW scale does have a fulcrum and it is a measure of balance BUT the intent of the SW scale is very different from what it really is.  The intent was actually to allow the builder to easily (if not completely accurately) match the MOI of the clubs about an axis at the grip (which is the real point about which rotational effort is applied).  BUT it was only designed to do that in very limited contexts because balance and MOI are not really the same.  It's just that balance is much easier to measure than actual MOI (at least back then).

The SW scale (and values) are often misused because people don't understand the limited contexts for which the scale was designed to handle and properly gauge MOI matching.  When used outside those specific contexts, the accuracy of the scale to match MOI severely decreases.

I hear what you're saying, and you are correct. In fact, I want to emphasize that every statement you made is correct as far as I can tell. The balance point is not a fulcrum during the swing. The fault is on me here for not clarifying my view at the beginning of my post.

My claim: I believe that swingweight is a useful metric - but not for the purpose for which it was created.

Moment of inertia is not a principle exclusive to golf. MOI is basically a measurement of how well an object resists angular rotation in response to a force. In golf, clubs have a sweet spot and are designed to strike the ball on that sweet spot. MOI comes into play when we miss that sweet spot. A club with a low MOI will be more prone to angular rotation on off-center hits, resulting in an off-target ball flight. A club with a high MOI will better resist that angular distortion and will keep your ball flight closer to your target line. This is why MOI is commonly viewed as a measurement of how forgiving a club is. MOI is only relevant during the fraction of a second when the club is actually making contact with the ball.

Swingweight, on the other hand, is a reflection of the balance point of a club. The A-G/0-9 scale was devised a hundred years ago, and just like bubble wrap or Listerine, we don't need to use the swingweight scale for its originally intended purpose. It still carries plenty of use as we fit our clubs to match our preferences. Where MOI measures how well we take advantage of inertia at impact, a properly fit swingweight can help us take advantage of inertia leading up to impact.

Again, I apologize if I'm only muddling things up for anyone. This is the stuff that I've always enjoyed learning about - it is fun for me - but I can definitely see how this type of information could overwhelm someone and cause them to over analyze their club builds. I hope I don't do that to anyone. I always try to end these types of posts with a disclaimer. My philosophy when it comes to golf tech is to: 1) Learn about the tech. 2) Test the tech. 3) Don't stress about the tech. 4) Use what works.
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#17 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:20 AM

View PostKleab, on 12 July 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

My claim: I believe that swingweight is a useful metric - but not for the purpose for which it was created.

Moment of inertia is not a principle exclusive to golf. MOI is basically a measurement of how well an object resists angular rotation in response to a force. In golf, clubs have a sweet spot and are designed to strike the ball on that sweet spot. MOI comes into play when we miss that sweet spot. A club with a low MOI will be more prone to angular rotation on off-center hits, resulting in an off-target ball flight. A club with a high MOI will better resist that angular distortion and will keep your ball flight closer to your target line. This is why MOI is commonly viewed as a measurement of how forgiving a club is. MOI is only relevant during the fraction of a second when the club is actually making contact with the ball.

Swingweight, on the other hand, is a reflection of the balance point of a club. The A-G/0-9 scale was devised a hundred years ago, and just like bubble wrap or Listerine, we don't need to use the swingweight scale for its originally intended purpose. It still carries plenty of use as we fit our clubs to match our preferences. Where MOI measures how well we take advantage of inertia at impact, a properly fit swingweight can help us take advantage of inertia leading up to impact.

That's true when you are talking about the MOI of the head (not the MOI of the club) and how it responds to the very high impulse forces of impact in the very short period the ball is in contact with the head.  But I don't see any correlation between that and the the MOI of the club and the dynamics of the swing.   Plus, more stability in that context also means less acceleration and slower swing speeds given the same torque/forces.

Second, even if it did, I doubt it would overcome the subjective influence the heft feel of the club has on our mechanics and our ability to control and manipulate the club during the swing.  It's generally much more important to match the heft feel to work with our natural sense of rhythm and timing than it is to fight it.   Or to put it a different way, the stability and consistency of the swing is much more important than the stability of the club in that particular context.


I could be wrong, but you also seem to be implying it's no longer valid to use it for it's original purpose?.   If that's the case, I strongly disagree.  It may have some limitations, but when working within those, it's a very useful tool in doing what it was designed/intended to do.

Edited by Stuart G., 13 July 2018 - 04:21 AM.


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#18 soulciccia

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:06 AM

swingweight is useful when comparing clubs with the same grip weight and the same shaft balance...
10 grams added under the grip (hands) will make swingweight drop by 2.5 pts, but playability in not affected.
if the fulcrum would be in the middle of the grip (which is really where it should be, like tennis rackets tool), then there wouldn't be all misunderstandings
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#19 Hammer22

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:03 AM

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

Go to a Mizuno rep and get a proper fitting. They have two different head weights for this situation.
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#20 Socrates

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

View PostHammer22, on 13 July 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

Go to a Mizuno rep and get a proper fitting. They have two different head weights for this situation.
Only useful if he is ordering a new set.  He already has the clubs.

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#21 Hammer22

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:38 PM

View PostSocrates, on 13 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:


Only useful if he is ordering a new set.  He already has the clubs.

Hence the “proper fitting” (i.e., doing it right the first time) comment. Acquiring used clubs for less cost up front doesn’t always pay off in the long run when they have to be hacked up to allegedly work.

Edited by Hammer22, 13 July 2018 - 06:38 PM.

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#22 soulciccia

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 03:29 AM

View PostHammer22, on 13 July 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 13 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Only useful if he is ordering a new set.  He already has the clubs.

Hence the "proper fitting" (i.e., doing it right the first time) comment. Acquiring used clubs for less cost up front doesn't always pay off in the long run when they have to be hacked up to allegedly work.

maybe you are right, especially for a guy who was fitted for 2" longer clubs

Edited by rusty04, 14 July 2018 - 03:32 AM.

D callaway razr fit xtreme 9,5° w/ px blue 6.5
W titleist 906 f2 15° w/ aldila nv 95x
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#23 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 03:37 AM

View PostHammer22, on 13 July 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 13 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Only useful if he is ordering a new set.  He already has the clubs.

Hence the "proper fitting" (i.e., doing it right the first time) comment.

A fitting would only help if he doesn't know what specs are a good fit for him.  Don't confuse fitting with purchasing.  He knows what he wants, he just didn't buy the right set for his desired specs.  

But yes, when you buy used, it's not always a good idea to assume that any set can easily be converted.

Edited by Stuart G., 14 July 2018 - 03:41 AM.


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#24 300_yard_drives

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:45 AM

View PostBigarch, on 10 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 10 July 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

1. Were/are the clubs standard length?
2. How much do you want to lengthen them?
3. There is no way to add length without increasing swingweight unless you do something else at the same time.
4. All of that said, and IF you are going to go ahead and lengthen them, you might withhold judgement until you hit them; what you are worried about may or may not be a problem.  You say in the OP that D9 "would be way too heavy", but you'd only be changing the actual weight of the club by a few grams.  Given that swingweight was devised as a way to MATCH clubs within a set, you MIGHT find the difference to be unimportant.  I've played irons at +1" for years; I leave the swingweight stuff to the manufacturers and I never sweat it or notice it.  I know this is not a popular view on GolfWRX, but that scale is the most misunderstood and misused part of club fitting.  Just my opinion...

I'm going to back this up.  I'm 6'5" and also long in the torso (31 inch inseam).  I've played plus 1" and plus1.5"  in my irons for nearly 20 years.  The biggest mistake you can make is worrying about the swingweight.  I've tried everything over the years including:
  • Heavier grip
  • Lead tape under the grip
  • Denser and heavier grip tape
  • Counter weights in the butt
  • Lighter weight shafts
  • Take mass out of the clubheads
All you end up really doing is trying to  "fool the scale" to get the swingweights you want.  And what you end up with is a club that is too heavy in its overall weight...you slow down your swing speed...that screws up the playability of the shaft...etc, etc, etc...You end up creating too many additional issues.  You can take a telephone pole and make it swingweight D2...but you can't hit a golf ball with it.

Lengthen them and then go hit em.  I think you will be surprised at how quickly you adjust.  And getting the correct length where you can center the ball on the face consistently will pay far greater dividends than chasing that swingweight.
You should probably be refitted as I am 6'4" with a short inseam as well and play retro length ping irons which is shorter than the current stock offering. Unless you are an NBA player with insane height or literally have trex arms you should not be using irons 1.5" over length.

Just wondering what kind of shirts do you wear for golf because I can't seem to find any that fit without being extremely wide or baggy.

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#25 Bigarch

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 02:17 PM

View Post300_yard_drives, on 14 July 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

View PostBigarch, on 10 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 10 July 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

View Postlincolnduff, on 10 July 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

So I recently picked up a used set of Mizuno MP18/SC combo's. They have the C-Taper 130 X's in them and are currently at a D3 SW. When I took them to the shop to have them lengthened, they said it would jack the SW up to a D9, which would be way too heavy. Is there a way to extend the irons without jacking up the SW? I probably shouldn't be above a D4? Although I haven't done any "optimization" and don't really know that much about fitting. The guy at the shop is basically telling me there's not a way to extend them without really jacking it up.

1. Were/are the clubs standard length?
2. How much do you want to lengthen them?
3. There is no way to add length without increasing swingweight unless you do something else at the same time.
4. All of that said, and IF you are going to go ahead and lengthen them, you might withhold judgement until you hit them; what you are worried about may or may not be a problem.  You say in the OP that D9 "would be way too heavy", but you'd only be changing the actual weight of the club by a few grams.  Given that swingweight was devised as a way to MATCH clubs within a set, you MIGHT find the difference to be unimportant.  I've played irons at +1" for years; I leave the swingweight stuff to the manufacturers and I never sweat it or notice it.  I know this is not a popular view on GolfWRX, but that scale is the most misunderstood and misused part of club fitting.  Just my opinion...

I'm going to back this up.  I'm 6'5" and also long in the torso (31 inch inseam).  I've played plus 1" and plus1.5"  in my irons for nearly 20 years.  The biggest mistake you can make is worrying about the swingweight.  I've tried everything over the years including:
  • Heavier grip
  • Lead tape under the grip
  • Denser and heavier grip tape
  • Counter weights in the butt
  • Lighter weight shafts
  • Take mass out of the clubheads
All you end up really doing is trying to  "fool the scale" to get the swingweights you want.  And what you end up with is a club that is too heavy in its overall weight...you slow down your swing speed...that screws up the playability of the shaft...etc, etc, etc...You end up creating too many additional issues.  You can take a telephone pole and make it swingweight D2...but you can't hit a golf ball with it.

Lengthen them and then go hit em.  I think you will be surprised at how quickly you adjust.  And getting the correct length where you can center the ball on the face consistently will pay far greater dividends than chasing that swingweight.
You should probably be refitted as I am 6'4" with a short inseam as well and play retro length ping irons which is shorter than the current stock offering. Unless you are an NBA player with insane height or literally have trex arms you should not be using irons 1.5" over length.

Just wondering what kind of shirts do you wear for golf because I can't seem to find any that fit without being extremely wide or baggy.

I've been fit multiple times and my many club fitters over the last 20 years.  While shaft flex and lie angle sometimes vary slightly, my fitted length has not. And I'm going off of what I consider historically standard specs (37.25" 6 iron)...as we know many manufacturers now take quite a few liberties with those.  But every time I've ever been fit for clubs, the length comes out to a 38.5 or 38.75 inch 6 iron.  So even by today's standards, thats an inch to an inch and a quarter longer than standard.

And I wear a 2XT or 3XT golf shirt.  Never have any trouble with them being too wide as I wear a size 52 sport coat size.

Edited by Bigarch, 14 July 2018 - 02:24 PM.

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