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Look, Either Keep Score or Don't...


265 replies to this topic

#1 NEhomer

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:56 AM

I don't care either way but at the end of the day, if you haven't kept your score, don't discuss your score.

My two buddies and I play the ball down, we play by the rules, we putt everything out. That's how we've always played and from my perspective, it's the only way to properly play the game. Now yesterday we were joined by a new club member. Nice guy, early 60s has a nice swing and a pleasant fellow to play with. I asked him if he'd like me to also keep his score and he said sure.

On the very first hole, he became frustrated and swept away a 5 footer that was for bogey. Nobody conceded the putt and nobody would have...it was a curler.  So I really had no choice but to mark down a bogey 5 and move on which we did. On another occasion, he did the very same thing.

At the end of the day over beers I totaled the card. Dude was pleased with his 83 total.

This is the is-it-me? part of my post. I could have let it go but that stuff has always irked me, esp, when a tainted score bests another players score that's correct (No, he didn't best my score) so I said, "yeah, but you did sweep away a couple of 5 footers out there."

"Well call it an 85 then" he said. I replied, "You call it whatever you'd like to call it."

...and that was that. It wasn't angry or heated and I look forward to playing with him again but I did want to put him on notice. I'm guessing that he may think I'm a D_CK for saying something but I just can't tolerate the alternative of saying nothing and just accepting that kind of thing. I've seen it many times in the past and it's bs.

I'm sure some of you will call me uptight but perhaps a couple of you might agree.


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#2 jdl

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:26 AM

Were you playing for money? Otherwise, I don't see why you'd care.

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#3 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:32 AM

While I can understand the frustration with it, I'd go another direction.

Look and see if he posted the 83. If he did, you know there are numerous other "tainted" scores in there. He's a vanity capper.

Time to start playing for something. But right up front make it clear everything is by the book, and most importantly, everything is putted out.
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#4 Kgglonghorn

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:34 AM

people gotta sleep at night with whatever score they "shot".  I am with you that I play the ball as it lies and my score accurately represents every shot it took me to hole out 18 times, and for the record, you only get to hit one ball off the #1 tee.:-) I do occasionally play with a good friend who seems to get amnesia from time to time on the course and it does tick me off but the only time I point it out is when it affects a bet.  Its too exhausting to try to change the world.  If this guy isn't gambling with you I say let him be.

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#5 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:42 AM

Those are the guys you want to play against in tournaments and money games. Just never play with them as a partner except maybe in scrambles.

I don't need to pet my ego on casual rounds so I just smirk when I see this stuff. They'll get their comeuppance when I play them when it means something.

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#6 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:56 AM

I've played with "that guy" more times than I can count. In a casual round I just let them do what they're going to do and just laugh to myself. People are funny sometimes, its like they can't live with themselves if they shoot over ____ (insert score here).

Funny thing is, most of them seem to realize how they are perceived, but they just can't help themselves, especially if one or more players in the group are low handicappers.

Like others have said, these are the guy you want to play against in money games. After a few times of being forced to putt those curling 5 footers and downhill 3 footers for a win of halve, they will be so in their own heads it won't be funny. By the 10 tee they will be complete basket cases.
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#7 rogolf

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:57 AM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

I've played with "that guy" more times than I can count. In a casual round I just let them do what they're going to do and just laugh to myself. People are funny sometimes, its like they can't live with themselves if they shoot over ____ (insert score here).

Funny thing is, most of them seem to realize how they are perceived, but they just can't help themselves, especially if one or more players in the group are low handicappers.

Like others have said, these are the guy you want to play against in money games. After a few times of being forced to putt those curling 5 footers and downhill 3 footers for a win of halve, they will be so in their own heads it won't be funny. By the 10 tee they will be complete basket cases.

Unless of course, they make all of them - then you'll be a basket case for assuming they couldn't.

Edited by rogolf, 09 July 2018 - 09:58 AM.


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#8 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:09 AM

What percentage of rounds played in USA yesterday do you guys think were entirely by the Rules of Golf? I would be gobsmacked if it were as high as 10%.

Feel as morally superior as you like but if you are following every rule and posting a 100% bona fide US Open worthy score in your casual weekend play you are among a tiny minority. The normative way of playing golf is to ignore some Rules, we’re just haggling over which ones.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#9 caniac6

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:17 AM

View Postjdl, on 09 July 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

Were you playing for money? Otherwise, I don't see why you'd care.
How would you like to be his partner in a tournament when he is carrying his vanity handicap that he can't come close to playing to? It sure would matter then.

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#10 Sawgrass

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:18 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 09 July 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

What percentage of rounds played in USA yesterday do you guys think were entirely by the Rules of Golf? I would be gobsmacked if it were as high as 10%.

Feel as morally superior as you like but if you are following every rule and posting a 100% bona fide US Open worthy score in your casual weekend play you are among a tiny minority. The normative way of playing golf is to ignore some Rules, we’re just haggling over which ones.
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#11 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:21 AM

View Postcaniac6, on 09 July 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

View Postjdl, on 09 July 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

Were you playing for money? Otherwise, I don't see why you'd care.
How would you like to be his partner in a tournament when he is carrying his vanity handicap that he can't come close to playing to? It sure would matter then.

Well, unless it’s a blind draw tournament I’d never play in one with him as a partner.
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#12 raynorfan1

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:29 AM

I think I’m that guy.

I’ll tell you a secret: I don’t really care what my score was, and I certainly care a lot less about it than you do.

Golf is not a competitive endeavor for me. From my perspective, I’m just happy to be knocking the ball around for a few hours. The irony is the replies that say: “you’ll get him when it COUNTS,” because, you see, for me, it never really counts. I play in our club championship to meet new people and have a fun couple of days of golf. I’m good enough to qualify for match play; I’ll win a round or two (or not). I’ll have a good time at the dinner. Maybe some year I’ll catch lightning in a bottle and win the whole thing. But probably not.

So it just doesn’t matter to me if I shot an 82, 85, or 87 on any given Saturday.

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#13 cardoustie

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:37 AM

Agree with Raynor at this point in my competitive golfing life.  Even though I can still break par, I am starting to not really care if I go around in 82.

As long as the sun is out and my buds or brother is along for the ride ... and preferably it's not 100* and humid out

Unless it's an event like a Member Guest or a Club C .. who cares?

I will admit in casual rounds I pick up 12" putts and if I am in a massive footprint in the trap our group allows a rake and place.   We play for cash all the time so there is no monkey business like bad drops and preferred likes but small irrelevant stuff does slide
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#14 DavePelz4

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:48 AM

View PostHot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

I've played with "that guy" more times than I can count. In a casual round I just let them do what they're going to do and just laugh to myself. People are funny sometimes, its like they can't live with themselves if they shoot over ____ (insert score here).

Funny thing is, most of them seem to realize how they are perceived, but they just can't help themselves, especially if one or more players in the group are low handicappers.

Like others have said, these are the guy you want to play against in money games. After a few times of being forced to putt those curling 5 footers and downhill 3 footers for a win of halve, they will be so in their own heads it won't be funny. By the 10 tee they will be complete basket cases.

A couple of years ago I walked on at a local course and was paired up with a predominant Chicago disc jockey and 2 of his friends.  He probably really shot 90-95 that day but his friends never made him putt anything inside of 8 feet.  At the end of the round he asked what I shot and I told him.  The question was returned and lo and behold, he shot an 82.  I don't really care what he does if we're not playing in a tournament or for money but he was one of the biggest vanity handicaps I've seen in many years of playing.

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#15 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:50 AM

I guess a lot of us are in trouble if USGA ever gets a trademark on the word "Golf" or the phrase "What did you shoot?". Until then, no big deal.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#16 duffer987

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 10:51 AM

View PostNEhomer, on 09 July 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:


On the very first hole, he became frustrated and swept away a 5 footer that was for bogey. Nobody conceded the putt and nobody would have...it was a curler.  So I really had no choice but to mark down a bogey 5 and move on which we did. On another occasion, he did the very same thing.

Look, either you're playing a match or you are not.

There's nothing to concede if you're not playing a match and it doesn't sound like you were, so really this isn't even a storm in a teacup.
It was genuinely nice of you to offer to keep score and make the chap more a part of your group, but someone I've joined up with can tell me their score was purple-monkey-dishwasher and that's just fine by me.

I did used to golf with a coworker who always had to keep score and would pronounce the totals at the end of the round - and he would take all kinds of interesting drops and drag back putts - and since we weren't playing for anything I didn't care. He did start talking about playing 'for something' and fortunately about that time our jobs took us in different directions and we stopped playing together. So ya I might have dodged something there.

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#17 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:06 AM

I am certainly no stickler for measuring out two club lengths and sticking tees in the ground or that kind of Rules worship. Or pulling flagsticks when playing alone. Or finishing out holes rather than writing down my ESC max and moving on. But by and large I'd just as soon play the ball down, putt it out and generally doing a 99% accurate approximation of the real game.

Anyway, my usual weekend groups both have their laundry lists of self-made rules. Putts inside the leather, two off the first tee, rolling it out of divots, drops away from tree roots, relief from dead patches of grass on the greens, yada, yada, yada. Each group plays some of those "rules" and not others but there's a lot leeway for free drops and such.

Back over the winter I moved a ball that was sitting up against a tree root, as played by the group I was with. Just kicked it a foot or so to the side and started to play my shot. One of the guys stopped me, "Hey, wait a minute. That's not a legal drop!". I was a bit confused, actually totally bewildered. This guy plays in this group all the time, surely he knows that's how the group plays. And yeah, of course free relief from a tree root is not a "legal" anything.

Turns out, he meant that I was supposed to pick the ball up and drop it from shoulder height rather than just kicking it off the root. So I did as he asked and played my shot.

My point is, it's funny how people who routinely break this or that Rule of Golf two or three times every round will be a complete stickler for some tiny, obscure, meaningless little detail that they consider sacrosanct.

Edited by North Butte, 09 July 2018 - 11:08 AM.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#18 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:13 AM

We do take gummies. Everything else is by the book. We go back to the tee for  unexpected lost ball or OB. Take the unplayable penalty if on a root, etc.  But we do take the gimmies. Unfortunately one guy gets a little liberal with his “gives”. So we’ve kind of taken it upon ourselves to use our best judgment on a putt he gives. We figure if we wouldn’t give it, then we shouldn’t take it.

I’d really like to get us to the point of putting everything out. But I really doubt that will ever happen.
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#19 HatsForBats

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:39 AM

Why do you feel the need to force everyone to play the exact same way as you? It's their time, money and in this case his enjoyment. If you have no horse in the race use some impulse control and just let it go. Dude was pleased. Let the Dude abide in peace. Maybe buy the dude a beer and just enjoy his company.

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#20 Sawgrass

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:44 AM

View Postdeadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

We do take gummies. Everything else is by the book. We go back to the tee for  unexpected lost ball or OB. Take the unplayable penalty if on a root, etc.  But we do take the gimmies. Unfortunately one guy gets a little liberal with his “gives”. So we’ve kind of taken it upon ourselves to use our best judgment on a putt he gives. We figure if we wouldn’t give it, then we shouldn’t take it.

I’d really like to get us to the point of putting everything out. But I really doubt that will ever happen.
Too bad, putting the ball in the hole is kinda the whole point. (If you want, you can always be an example though.)


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#21 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:47 AM

 Sawgrass, on 09 July 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

We do take gummies. Everything else is by the book. We go back to the tee for  unexpected lost ball or OB. Take the unplayable penalty if on a root, etc.  But we do take the gimmies. Unfortunately one guy gets a little liberal with his “gives”. So we’ve kind of taken it upon ourselves to use our best judgment on a putt he gives. We figure if we wouldn’t give it, then we shouldn’t take it.

I’d really like to get us to the point of putting everything out. But I really doubt that will ever happen.
Too bad, putting the ball in the hole is kinda the whole point. (If you want, you can always be an example though.)

Not really though. I’m not going to insist the entire group change because of how I feel.


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#22 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:52 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

 Sawgrass, on 09 July 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

We do take gummies. Everything else is by the book. We go back to the tee for  unexpected lost ball or OB. Take the unplayable penalty if on a root, etc.  But we do take the gimmies. Unfortunately one guy gets a little liberal with his “gives”. So we’ve kind of taken it upon ourselves to use our best judgment on a putt he gives. We figure if we wouldn’t give it, then we shouldn’t take it.

I’d really like to get us to the point of putting everything out. But I really doubt that will ever happen.
Too bad, putting the ball in the hole is kinda the whole point. (If you want, you can always be an example though.)

Not really though. I’m not going to insist the entire group change because of how I feel.

There are two kinds of people in the world. People who enjoy "being an example", most of whom imagine they will somehow shame others into following their lead, and those who are more into being part of the group with minimal aggravation.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#23 bladehunter

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

 rogolf, on 09 July 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

 Hot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

I've played with "that guy" more times than I can count. In a casual round I just let them do what they're going to do and just laugh to myself. People are funny sometimes, its like they can't live with themselves if they shoot over ____ (insert score here).

Funny thing is, most of them seem to realize how they are perceived, but they just can't help themselves, especially if one or more players in the group are low handicappers.

Like others have said, these are the guy you want to play against in money games. After a few times of being forced to putt those curling 5 footers and downhill 3 footers for a win of halve, they will be so in their own heads it won't be funny. By the 10 tee they will be complete basket cases.

Unless of course, they make all of them - then you'll be a basket case for assuming they couldn't.

rake away alot of 5 footers? come on man..are you Mr contrarian for the month ?  or does it not rotate?

come on..we all know"that guy" and he sure as hell cant putt.. half the time hes given these so we dont have to see him 3 jack from 5 feet..  

Im in the camp that i likely would keep y mouth shut...probably on the same ratio that he did...  If he crows about the 82 or whatever..probably have to ask how many putts he had for the day ... see if that sinks in or not, maybe he gets it and shuts up

Edited by bladehunter, 09 July 2018 - 11:59 AM.

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#24 me05501

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:56 AM

Every player has a different relationship to the game. Live and let live.

It is sort of interesting that many players (myself included, at times) will allow a perversion of match play and stroke play rules when it either benefits them or speeds up play or both. Gimmies are a thing in match play but not in stroke play.

In terms of sheer enjoyment of the game, I sometimes enjoy playing in club games where a wide variety of different scoring systems and elastic rules are designed to keep the game both competitive and moving along. Best two low balls, double-bogey max, gimmies inside the leather, etc. As long as everyone in the game applies these conditions reasonably, it can be a fun day on the course.

OTOH, I'd hate to only play in games like that and then enter a stroke-play tournament and be ill-equipped to hole everything out. It would definitely cost you some strokes.

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#25 jdl

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:58 AM

 caniac6, on 09 July 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

 jdl, on 09 July 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

Were you playing for money? Otherwise, I don't see why you'd care.
How would you like to be his partner in a tournament when he is carrying his vanity handicap that he can't come close to playing to? It sure would matter then.

Yeah, same as what I said, if something's actually on the line...

We don't even know if this guy posts his scores or even has a handicap.


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#26 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:59 AM

 North Butte, on 09 July 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

 Sawgrass, on 09 July 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

We do take gummies. Everything else is by the book. We go back to the tee for  unexpected lost ball or OB. Take the unplayable penalty if on a root, etc.  But we do take the gimmies. Unfortunately one guy gets a little liberal with his “gives”. So we’ve kind of taken it upon ourselves to use our best judgment on a putt he gives. We figure if we wouldn’t give it, then we shouldn’t take it.

I’d really like to get us to the point of putting everything out. But I really doubt that will ever happen.
Too bad, putting the ball in the hole is kinda the whole point. (If you want, you can always be an example though.)

Not really though. I’m not going to insist the entire group change because of how I feel.

There are two kinds of people in the world. People who enjoy "being an example", most of whom imagine they will somehow shame others into following their lead, and those who are more into being part of the group with minimal aggravation.

I’m definitely not egotistical enough to think anyone is going to influenced enough by what I do to change what they do.


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#27 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:02 PM

 bladehunter, on 09 July 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

 rogolf, on 09 July 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

 Hot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

I've played with "that guy" more times than I can count. In a casual round I just let them do what they're going to do and just laugh to myself. People are funny sometimes, its like they can't live with themselves if they shoot over ____ (insert score here).

Funny thing is, most of them seem to realize how they are perceived, but they just can't help themselves, especially if one or more players in the group are low handicappers.

Like others have said, these are the guy you want to play against in money games. After a few times of being forced to putt those curling 5 footers and downhill 3 footers for a win of halve, they will be so in their own heads it won't be funny. By the 10 tee they will be complete basket cases.

Unless of course, they make all of them - then you'll be a basket case for assuming they couldn't.

rake away alot of 5 footers? come on man..are you Mr contrarian for the month ?  or does it not rotate?

There's a foursome I used to fill in for when one of the regulars was out. The guy who made the tee time and invited me to play was the absolute ruler of their game. He made the rules and his number one rule was Thou Shalt Keep Moving. He was a dewsweeper and had no intention of lingering around out there for three hours!

So if everyone was keeping up and the game was rolling along smoothly, anything outside of a 6-inch tap-in was putted out. But if the pace were starting to lag a bit he'd be swatting 5-footers (or occasionally more) back and saying, "That's good, let's go". I miss playing with that guy, he left the club years ago due to illness. It's funny, I still see a couple of his regulars out on the course now and they are incredible slowpokes, wonder how they put up with that dewsweeper game all those years...

Edited by North Butte, 09 July 2018 - 12:03 PM.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#28 Hot Rod 71

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

Look, I don't think anyone really cares if another player follows the rules exactly in a casual round.

I think the bigger point here is this: if you don't follow the rules (i.e. rake in short putts, don't drop properly, ignore OB, take mulligans, etc) no one really cares, just don't walk around bragging you shot 78 when you went OB on two holes and took free drops, raked in a handful of short putts, and took a mulligan on each side. Because you didn't really shoot 78, it was more like 88.
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#29 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:16 PM

 Hot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Look, I don't think anyone really cares if another player follows the rules exactly in a casual round.

I think the bigger point here is this: if you don't follow the rules (i.e. rake in short putts, don't drop properly, ignore OB, take mulligans, etc) no one really cares, just don't walk around bragging you shot 78 when you went OB on two holes and took free drops, raked in a handful of short putts, and took a mulligan on each side. Because you didn't really shoot 78, it was more like 88.

My best friend is one of these. “Do overs”are his thing. Then he conveniently forgets them. If I ask what he shot, he never knows. It’s always “I think it was”.

Needless to say, I play very few tournaments with him, despite him being a wonderful friend.
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#30 North Butte

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

 deadsolid...shank, on 09 July 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

 Hot Rod 71, on 09 July 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Look, I don't think anyone really cares if another player follows the rules exactly in a casual round.

I think the bigger point here is this: if you don't follow the rules (i.e. rake in short putts, don't drop properly, ignore OB, take mulligans, etc) no one really cares, just don't walk around bragging you shot 78 when you went OB on two holes and took free drops, raked in a handful of short putts, and took a mulligan on each side. Because you didn't really shoot 78, it was more like 88.

My best friend is one of these. “Do overs”are his thing. Then he conveniently forgets them. If I ask what he shot, he never knows. It’s always “I think it was”.

Needless to say, I play very few tournaments with him, despite him being a wonderful friend.

When I first started playing golf I had a friend named Andy (who since died tragically at far too young an age) who always counted score right but could not resist a do-over on every, single bad shot. And there were a bunch of bad shots, he was a shotgun-style big hitter with an (honest) 16 handicap and no frickin' clue where any given shot was going.

But he'd toss a second ball on the ground, sometimes while that 100-yard pull hook was still in the air, and swat the bejeebers out of it and let me tell you those second shots were like magic. If he'd have conveniently forgotten all the bad first shots the dude would have been under par often as not. It was uncanny. He was a huge guy (6'3" maybe 250-ish?) but he'd giggle like an idiot every time one of those second balls went flying straight at the flag.

I tried to convince him to quit lining up or even settling over shots. Just pretend everything is the second ball and swat the damned thing. He said he'd tried it and it didn't work. It HAD to be his second "Bubba" ball.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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