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Joel Dahmen accuses Kang of cheating


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#61 Ferguson

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:39 AM

View Postjonsnow, on 02 July 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 02 July 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Posted Image

Are they playing Duck, Duck, Rangoon?


The 5 D's of Duck, Duck Rangoon:
Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge


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#62 Bingo1976

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:42 AM

View PostTheInfidel, on 02 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%.

Recent experience should teach us all that there are people in far more important positions than a PGA tour pro who tweet billy bollocks lies all day long.

View Postsekrah, on 02 July 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Kang cheating might have kept Tiger out of the Bridgestone unless he goes Top 10 at the Open.

Alleged cheating. And alleged karma from TPC a few years back...
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#63 eagle1997

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:44 AM

View PostPuttLeftHitRight, on 02 July 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think JD is saying he did not hit the ball that far. It draw as your yellow line suggests, but didn't carry far enough to get up by the green.


shot tracker has SK hitting the ball 239 yards. SK dropped well back of that point, where he thought it crossed.  JD's claim is that the ball's flight never crossed the hazard line where he dropped.

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#64 jonsnow

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:47 AM

View PostFerguson, on 02 July 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjonsnow, on 02 July 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 02 July 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Posted Image

Are they playing Duck, Duck, Rangoon?


The 5 D's of Duck, Duck Rangoon:
Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge

I love that movie. "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."
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#65 Ignatius Reilly

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:09 AM

View PostTheInfidel, on 02 July 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

View Postmizuno player, on 02 July 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

View PostTheInfidel, on 02 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postmizuno player, on 02 July 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.

Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?

Do you even play golf? Seriously.  

The game is built on integrity and honesty.  Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct.  Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first.  But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%.  There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.

Ok. I'll bite. Yes big guy I play golf. Can you read? I didn't say there was bias. I Said. Someone could say there was bias.

The Only thing I said was. Saying someone cheated is a strong thing to say.

The point I was making off the back of your comment is that I think it's wrong to assume that his motive was ranking/$$$ driven.  That's not really something you see in pro golfers.  


While I agree with that, it leaves open the question as to why Kang would have cheated.  Surely, that would have been ranking and $$$ driven as well.  Maybe he did it for sh!ts and g!ggles, but I doubt it.

So that kind of flies in the face of your "have you even played golf" and "integrity" points.

Five things:
  • I believe there are cameras running on every hole.  How else do we get to see some low-level player hole out from the fairway on occasion?
  • Dahmen should not have used the word cheater.  That's a really serious charge.  Especially hours later on Twitter when he should have calmed down.  He should have said something along the lines of "I was sure it never crossed the hazard line there".
  • Shot Tracker doesn't show curves.
  • It's really hard to say exactly where a ball crossed the hazard line from > 200 yds away.  Especially if both the ball and the line have curves, and the ball is still up in the air.  At least it is for me.
  • Dahmen should never, NEVER have signed the card if he's going to call him a cheat.  Like not ever.  Never.

Edited by Ignatius Reilly, 02 July 2018 - 11:48 AM.


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#66 rawdog

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:14 AM

View Postjonsnow, on 02 July 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 02 July 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjonsnow, on 02 July 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 02 July 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Posted Image

Are they playing Duck, Duck, Rangoon?


The 5 D's of Duck, Duck Rangoon:
Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge

I love that movie. "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."

There's actually footage of the Kang/Dahmen incident on ESPN 8, "The Ocho."
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#67 MtlJeff

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:15 AM

^^^ I agree with this. If you disagree with a ruling and want to rant about it....be my guest i suppose. But the language you use is very important, he can say he disagreed with the ruling and was overruled.

But he can't call someone a cheater when an official blessed what happened and he signed the scorecard. He comes of like a bitter twitter idiot, and as mentioned Kang would be within his rights to at least threaten to come back at him for libel. especially given that endorsements are such a big part of player income and reputation matters in this space.
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#68 BottleCap

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:17 AM

There are people that cheat all the time and get to the point that is just how they play golf and they don't even think of it as cheating.

I'll give Kang the benefit of doubt, since it's really tough to judge things like this at times. Either one of those guys could have things like astigmatisms that have been corrected and their depth perceptions could be messed up.
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#69 NPVWhiz

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:19 AM

This is an unfortunate situation for both of them.  It looks bad for Dahmen for simply not understanding how it was going to play out in the end. It's up to the player's judgment, that's the way it plays out with the official in the absence of other good evidence.  Especially on tour, with all the cameras, is it reasonable to assume Kang would run that risk of overplaying his hand?

That's the way Dahmen should have thought about it at the time.  There were good prospects for some other evidence to come out if it really was a bad drop, but I can recall lots of other instances of this happening on tour.  Even if you're absolutely sure in your own mind, you have to realize that in those circumstances you're making the call that you're 100% correct and the other guy is mistaken, even though the odds you're wrong are as high as the probability that the other player is actually correct.   His responsibility and best option was to let the Tour official know that he felt the ball flight was different, but in those circumstances Dahmen can't  be as sure of the ball flight as he apparently thinks he is.  It was a mistake to take to Twitter to call him a cheater.  You have to give a fellow player the benefit of the doubt in that set of circumstances.  It's terrible to have a reputation as a cheat on Tour, but having a reputation for bad judgment is probably in the same ballpark when it comes to your relationships with other players.  Who wouldn't want to avoid being paired with that guy if you're not driving it straight that day?  It's one thing to be a stand up guy.  It's entirely different to be a guy that stands up at the wrong time, and doesn't know the difference.  

When you attest to someone's score, that's supposed to mean something as well.  If he hadn't signed the card, at least I'd really get the sense he was standing for something he really believed in.  I'd much rather have seen him just say, "I didn't sign the card.", rather than "he cheated".  Sullying someone's reputation by calling them a cheater, if mistaken, is a much worse move than making an honest mistake about ball flight in a drop situation.  

I hope Kang stands up for himself and comes out with a rebuttal, because you should stand up for yourself when someone tries to kick you to the gutter.

Edited by NPVWhiz, 02 July 2018 - 11:20 AM.

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#70 Birdie Mac

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:28 AM

Bad look for Dahmen to call Kang out as a cheater on Twitter. I trust he said the same to his face when they were discussing it on the course, but I doubt that happened. Agree this is a judgment call, unlike a bad mark, or improper drop where crossing a hazard is not in question. Should be interesting to see what Kang's response is, but I'd think Dahmen will apologize beforehand. And, no, he shouldn't have signed the scorecard if he felt this strongly about it.


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#71 Albatross85

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.
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#72 cinnepa

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:39 AM

as i heard someone say....twitter is a loaded gun.

Edited by cinnepa, 02 July 2018 - 11:39 AM.

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#73 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:39 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

View PostTheInfidel, on 02 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postmizuno player, on 02 July 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.

Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?

Do you even play golf? Seriously.  

The game is built on integrity and honesty.  Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct.  Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first.  But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%.  There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.

Why, because no one who ever had a strong opinion on twitter is wrong?

Kang would be within his rights to sue in this case. Much as Mickelson threatened to sue over being called a cheater for using the Eye2

Either he can prove it or he can't. If he can't he shouldn't post opinion as fact. And since it was blessed by an official I'd side with Kang here pending further evidence
Agreed with every word.
Makes JD look really bad.

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#74 SkiSchoolPro

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:44 AM

View PostBirdie Mac, on 02 July 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Bad look for Dahmen to call Kang out as a cheater on Twitter. I trust he said the same to his face when they were discussing it on the course, but I doubt that happened.
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#75 MtlJeff

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.

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#76 Fade to Black

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:49 AM

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.
It's not cheating if the official sides with your viewpoint.
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#77 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:50 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
Often times the louder someone yells the more right (they think) they are :)

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#78 SkiSchoolPro

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:51 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
I said it before and we'll say it again. My interpretation of the rules is that the official siding with Kang only indicates that in Kang's judgment the ball crossed up by the green, not that the official felt King's judgment was better than JD's. Just because the rules assume that players play with integrity doesn't mean that all of them do. I wasn't there so I'm not saying Kang cheated, but the official siding with him means nothing.

Edited by SkiSchoolPro, 02 July 2018 - 11:52 AM.

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#79 Albatross85

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:51 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
The official had no choice but to side with him, the official did not see the shot.

I see no reason why JD would be so adamant unless he was 100% certain. This is a very rare occurrence on the tour for a player to speak up about a line of flight drop.

I am not saying that just b/c he is forceful or adamant that makes him correct. But it is worth considering....

I am not calling Kang a cheater, but i think if it was an iffy drop most people would shutup and move on. Clearly JD felt like falling on the sword was worth it in this instance.

Edited by Albatross85, 02 July 2018 - 11:52 AM.

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#80 golfnoob25

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:52 AM

I tend to believe Kang cheated.

No reason to stick his neck into this and start drama, with no basis. Would be very strange.


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#81 SkiSchoolPro

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:52 AM

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
The official had no choice but to side with him, the official did not see the shot.

I see no reason why JD would be so adamant unless he was 100% certain. This is a very rare occurrence on the tour for a player to speak up about a line of flight drop.

I am not saying that just b/c he is forceful or adamant that makes him correct. But it is worth considering....

I am not calling Kang a cheater, but i think if it was an iffy drop most people would shutup and move on. Clearly JD felt like falling on the sword was worth it in this instance.
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#82 MtlJeff

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
The official had no choice but to side with him, the official did not see the shot.

I see no reason why JD would be so adamant unless he was 100% certain. This is a very rare occurrence on the tour for a player to speak up about a line of flight drop.

I am not saying that just b/c he is forceful or adamant that makes him correct. But it is worth considering....

I am not calling Kang a cheater, but i think if it was an iffy drop most people would shutup and move on. Clearly JD felt like falling on the sword was worth it in this instance.

It is certainly worth considering, it's a factor no question. It does seem strange.....however people ARE strange! You have met many people i assume, haven't you ever met people and wondered "What the F is with this guy?".

I have seen high level executives lie about things for no or minimal personal gain in business settings. Maybe he wanted to be a whistleblower, maybe the conversation they had got heated and this was payback....all of these things should be considered too. I have no idea who Joel Dahmen is, neither do you. Maybe he's a lunatic

My point is just that a ruling was made that favors Kang. There's no evidence he cheated. So until i see evidence i'm gonna say Kang should threaten to sue this guy
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#83 hell_is_chrome

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:05 PM

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

He signed the card which means he endorses the score as correct. Can't have it both ways.

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#84 eagle1997

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:11 PM

based on what he saw, JD could 100% believe SK willfully and knowingly took an illegal drop.

based on what HE saw, SK could 100% believe he took a correct drop.

both players went (-3) on the back 9 to finish, so this situation obviously didn't negatively affect their games.  i actually find this incredible.  i had to call out someone for taking an illegal drop last year in a club tournament.  my game (and his) promptly went in the toilet because of the confrontation.


a signed scorecard and the official's ruling are the determining factors for me to this point.  will be interested if there is any further info that comes out.
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#85 JohnnyCashForever

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:20 PM

View PostFade to Black, on 02 July 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.
It's not cheating if the official sides with your viewpoint.

It is possible that the official believed that both golfers saw what they saw.  Without other evidence or testimony, it would be hard to rule against Kang.  It's basically a "he-said-he-said" deal.  However, if Kang lied to the official, then he cheated.


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#86 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

View Posteagle1997, on 02 July 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

View PostTheInfidel, on 02 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct.

here's joel's shot tracker.  his tee shot was well right of sung kang's tee shot.  unless he walked over to get a better view, from his angle, there is *literally* no way he could tell where the ball crossed.

Posted Image
This was my first thought when I looked at the Shotlinks. I walked past them and saw them arguing. JD was very clearly not happy at all. It was a strange sight. Dahmen is the guy who tweeted a while back that watching Tiger drive the ball was entertaining because you never know where it's going to go. He is obviously not afraid to speak his mind. Calling someone a cheater is a bold move.

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 02 July 2018 - 12:28 PM.

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#87 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:25 PM

There’s a guy on FB who says he was running the Shotlink on the hole and that he, three marshals and JD all saw it the same way, but the official took Kang’s word.  

Apparently Kang said that he was 95% sure of where it crossed until the official told him he needed to be 100% sure or drop farther back, and miraculously, he was then 100% sure.

I have no issue with him being called out on this.  These drops where the player takes an extra 100+ yards happen all the time and they’re bs.  I’d love for guys to be a little less sure they can do it without consequences.
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#88 Albatross85

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:28 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 02 July 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

There’s a guy on FB who says he was running the Shotlink on the hole and that he, three marshals and JD all saw it the same way, but the official took Kang’s word.  

Apparently Kang said that he was 95% sure of where it crossed until the official told him he needed to be 100% sure or drop farther back, and miraculously, he was then 100% sure.

I have no issue with him being called out on this.  These drops where the player takes an extra 100+ yards happen all the time and they’re bs.  I’d love for guys to be a little less sure they can do it without consequences.
I saw that comment on FB too. Very interesting
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#89 mizuno player

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:33 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 02 July 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 02 July 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

View PostAlbatross85, on 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Y'all are quick to jump on Dahmen for using strong language. I look at it another way; i dont think he would stick his neck on the line unless he felt very strongly about the situation. He is trying to protect the field which i can respect. Clearly he had a good view if he is going to argue about it for 20 minutes when it has no impact on his paycheck or status.

Cheaters need to be called out and held accountable.

The reason he's being jumped on is because there is an official whose job it is to make rulings and he made one in this case that favored the drop Kang took. Dahmen is welcome to disagree with it and say he disagrees with it.

I don't understand the logic of "well he said something forcefully so it must be true". Is that how it works? Whoever makes the boldest claim is likely right? I shudder thinking of a world where this is commonly accepted. I wonder if men feel the same way about say, sexual harrassment complaints.

If you are looking at the facts at hand, they suggest Kang is right. If only because the official sided with him.
Often times the louder someone yells the more right (they think) they are :)


No kidding.

The only thing yelling loud makes you is loud!

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#90 bscinstnct

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:36 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 02 July 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

There’s a guy on FB who says he was running the Shotlink on the hole and that he, three marshals and JD all saw it the same way, but the official took Kang’s word.  

Apparently Kang said that he was 95% sure of where it crossed until the official told him he needed to be 100% sure or drop farther back, and miraculously, he was then 100% sure.

I have no issue with him being called out on this.  These drops where the player takes an extra 100+ yards happen all the time and they’re bs.  I’d love for guys to be a little less sure they can do it without consequences.

Good intel, ggr.

Dahmen like,

Posted Image


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