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When/How to call a player on a rules infraction.


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#31 kekoa

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:26 PM

View Postdarter79, on 28 June 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 28 June 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Please link me on the spectator rule.  If it's there then the entire field last week needs to be DQ'd or assessed penalties.

Spectator Policy: If spectator carts are permitted, the above Cart Policy must be followed. Cell phones, headphones, pagers, and the like may not be used during play. All walking spectators should stay on or near the cart path at all times. Spectators are not allowed on the greens or in the fairway. Please stay behind the group being followed and do not go ahead to spot shots in advance of play. First offense: warning, Second offense: removal from the golf course.


I think staying behind the group is stupid.  That is not how you spectate golf.

Ok, but its not a penalty on the player and the rule actually has to be enforced to get the warning and subsequent removal from the course.  'Most' spectators know you can't be on the green, but I've seen parents and grandparents literally stand on the fringe to watch their child play.

our local has a penalty rule with this. Pretty sure the bigger ones does as well.

Which tour do you play in and how many kids normally play?  Most socal local tournaments have over 100 players and the states/regionals have even more.  I'm interested to see how they monitor this because it wasn't monitored at all during a recent state tournament.


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#32 sui generis

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:41 PM

Here's what AJGA has to say for parents and spectators:

Parents Code of Conduct

"In golf, customs of etiquette and decorum are just as important as rules governing play." It is appropriate for parents and spectators to applaud successful strokes, but in order to secure the spirit of the game, we ask parents and spectators to please adhere to the following guidelines: (Please note that if any of the following guidelines are perceived as broken by an AJGA official, the player may be subject to penalty.)

1. Advice (Rule 8) is any counsel or suggestion which could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. In addition, any conversation between player/spectator may be construed as advice. This includes any conversation between player/spectator in their native language. In either instance, penalty for breach of this rule is two strokes. Players are responsible for the actions of their relatives and spectators in regards to this rule.

2. Keeping the above statement in mind, please keep your conversation with the player to words of encouragement as long as advice is not given.

3. Spectators attend AJGA events at their own risk.

4. Please turn off all cell phones at AJGA events.

5. The AJGA does not allow spectator carts except if the spectator has a permanent handicap placard. Handicap spectators must present their placard to the Tournament Director prior to getting a golf cart. Spectators will not receive a cart unless they have this official placard. Letters from doctors or visible injuries will not warrant a golf cart without a placard.

6. All players and spectators are not permitted to ride on the back of a golf cart at any time during AJGA competitions.

7. Spectators should stay on cart paths. In the absence of cart paths, we ask that spectators stay in the rough. Please stay off fairways, tees and greens.

8. Spectators should stay one shot ahead of the group they are following. This allows spectators to follow errant shots and help identify where the ball comes to rest. Spectators are allowed to aid in the search for lost golf balls.

9. Spectators should not give rulings. Please seek an AJGA rules official if the need arises.

10. Spectators are allowed to carry medicine, drinks, food, umbrellas, etc.

11. The AJGA staff may assess a penalty to the player based on the severity of the spectator violation. If a serious breach has occurred, the spectator may be asked to leave the facility or the spectator may not be permitted to attend another AJGA event.

12. For your personal safety, we ask you exercise caution at all times. When inclement weather moves into the area, the AJGA will suspend play by sounding airhorns. Accordingly, you should seek shelter immediately. The AJGA staff will evacuate players from the course first and then spectators.

The AJGA staff will further discuss the spectator guidelines at each tournament's parents meeting.
Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#33 darter79

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:44 PM

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 28 June 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 28 June 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Please link me on the spectator rule.  If it's there then the entire field last week needs to be DQ'd or assessed penalties.

Spectator Policy: If spectator carts are permitted, the above Cart Policy must be followed. Cell phones, headphones, pagers, and the like may not be used during play. All walking spectators should stay on or near the cart path at all times. Spectators are not allowed on the greens or in the fairway. Please stay behind the group being followed and do not go ahead to spot shots in advance of play. First offense: warning, Second offense: removal from the golf course.


I think staying behind the group is stupid.  That is not how you spectate golf.

Ok, but its not a penalty on the player and the rule actually has to be enforced to get the warning and subsequent removal from the course.  'Most' spectators know you can't be on the green, but I've seen parents and grandparents literally stand on the fringe to watch their child play.

our local has a penalty rule with this. Pretty sure the bigger ones does as well.

Which tour do you play in and how many kids normally play?  Most socal local tournaments have over 100 players and the states/regionals have even more.  I'm interested to see how they monitor this because it wasn't monitored at all during a recent state tournament.

no where near that size. No-one is following us around as with most rules in golf you have to call it.  But the people watching know to stay on the cart path. No different than any other rule if you ask me. Not saying you are doing this, but  you can't pick and choose which rule you want to follow.

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#34 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:04 AM

There should be no caddies when kids are 7. One adult(not related) should go out with a group to keep things moving, overall safety, and to keep a master scorecard.
Parents should not be ďcallingĒ penalties. If another kid in a group sees an infraction, it should be brought up by the kid/competitor.
Most times when parents are involved, is when the poop hits the fan.
I understand the feelings a parents may have, but even in ďbigĒ tournaments, the less involvement by parents is almost always the best.


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#35 kekoa

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:28 AM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

There should be no caddies when kids are 7. One adult(not related) should go out with a group to keep things moving, overall safety, and to keep a master scorecard.
Parents should not be “calling” penalties. If another kid in a group sees an infraction, it should be brought up by the kid/competitor.
Most times when parents are involved, is when the poop hits the fan.
I understand the feelings a parents may have, but even in “big” tournaments, the less involvement by parents is almost always the best.

No caddies and an unrelated adult out there babysitting? Cmon thats unrealistic.  Do you have a competitive youngster playing tournament golf?


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#36 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no ďbabysitting.Ē And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
Iíve been through it all, and what I havenít seen, I have heard about.


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#37 darter79

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:56 AM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

There should be no caddies when kids are 7. One adult(not related) should go out with a group to keep things moving, overall safety, and to keep a master scorecard.
Parents should not be "calling" penalties. If another kid in a group sees an infraction, it should be brought up by the kid/competitor.
Most times when parents are involved, is when the poop hits the fan.
I understand the feelings a parents may have, but even in "big" tournaments, the less involvement by parents is almost always the best.

Well most locals at that age range requires a caddy. Not sure what events you are playing that you could even do that if you wanted to. Believe me there are days where I would love to see her go solo.

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#38 leezer99

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:04 AM

View Postdarter79, on 29 June 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

There should be no caddies when kids are 7. One adult(not related) should go out with a group to keep things moving, overall safety, and to keep a master scorecard.
Parents should not be "calling" penalties. If another kid in a group sees an infraction, it should be brought up by the kid/competitor.
Most times when parents are involved, is when the poop hits the fan.
I understand the feelings a parents may have, but even in "big" tournaments, the less involvement by parents is almost always the best.

Well most locals at that age range requires a caddy. Not sure what events you are playing that you could even do that if you wanted to. Believe me there are days where I would love to see her go solo.

Darter, look into your local PGA league.  My son has been playing on his own since he was about 7 and parents couldn't even go out and spectate most of the time.  I remember sending him out in the brightest shirt we had and then watching from atop a parking garage next to the course.

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#39 heavy_hitter

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.

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#40 sui generis

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:35 AM

The parable of the blind men and an elephant is a story of a group of blind men, who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and conceptualize what the elephant is like by touching it.

Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their partial experience and their descriptions are in complete disagreement on what an elephant is.

The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to project their partial experiences as the whole truth, ignore other people's partial experiences, and one should consider that one may be partially right and may have partial information

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#41 darter79

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:52 AM

View Postleezer99, on 29 June 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 29 June 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

There should be no caddies when kids are 7. One adult(not related) should go out with a group to keep things moving, overall safety, and to keep a master scorecard.
Parents should not be "calling" penalties. If another kid in a group sees an infraction, it should be brought up by the kid/competitor.
Most times when parents are involved, is when the poop hits the fan.
I understand the feelings a parents may have, but even in "big" tournaments, the less involvement by parents is almost always the best.

Well most locals at that age range requires a caddy. Not sure what events you are playing that you could even do that if you wanted to. Believe me there are days where I would love to see her go solo.

Darter, look into your local PGA league.  My son has been playing on his own since he was about 7 and parents couldn't even go out and spectate most of the time.  I remember sending him out in the brightest shirt we had and then watching from atop a parking garage next to the course.

we play there as well. Caddies are required at her age still.

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#42 bwbw

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:08 AM

The league we are playing in now is supposed to be on cart path only with carts, no contact with the kids minus checking on them for water and make sure they are okay with the heat.  We do get to shuttle between holes on some courses due to the layout.  That being said, it is fairly relaxed.  I usually get off the cart path and take pictures of my kid and the players in the group with the other parents permission (we all have played with each other for a while, so we all know each other well).

I do notice a couple of dads that ride along side their kids the entire way.  I'm a bit suspect of that, not knowing if there is any advice being given at any point.  But, I'm not too worried about it right now.  I'm more concerned with what my daughter shoots more so than whether she wins or not.  At the state level, it may be a different story.

Regarding infractions in general, I do my best to teach my daughters the rules.  My oldest is not afraid to call a penalty on herself.  She had to twice earlier this year, took it, and went on.  But she was very frustrated with another player committed one and did not call it.  My daughter is fairly non-confrontational, but she did say she would never let that happen again with this particular player.

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#43 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. Iím sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

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#44 heavy_hitter

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:31 AM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. I'm sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

I disagree.

A 7 year old is unrealistic.  I would consider it negligence on the parents part for even considering to let it happen.  I don't care what organization it is or if it has been done.  7 years old is too young.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 29 June 2018 - 10:32 AM.


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#45 md1m

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. I'm sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

I'm glad so many of you have fully developed, strong, and mature 7 year olds who can carry their own bag (in 100+ degree heat where I am), know what clubs to select, know all the rules (even though many pros do not), including the modified rules used at that age, can accurately count all of their strokes and their playing partner's strokes, etc.

I've caddied in several events with my son and it's been a wonderful experience. The other dads have been great, and we've helped guide our kids around the course with no problems. There have been many times we helped them with a rules interpretation, made sure they were ready to play when it was their turn, helped them take a proper drop, and many other things a normal person would expect to help a 7 year old with!!!

Heck, down here in TX, there are times the ground is so hard in the modified teeing area that a dad has had to help drive the tee in. It can almost take a hammer sometimes.  And if caddies weren't helping to count strokes, the scores would be a joke. I always ask my son what he got, and I hear the other dads do the same thing, and the kids almost always get it wrong, especially if it was a par 5 and a penalty stroke(s) was involved.

You golf dads can go drop your little superstar off and let them be perfect. I'll continue to have the time of my life while I caddie for my son.  I feel it is only through the guidance they get from the caddies that they are able to learn enough and gain the knowledge required to be out there on their own in a few years.

This is a whole other issue I've been wanting to share, but the biggest problem I've seen so far was a kid who did not have a caddie and got screwed over by the other golf dads. I hope I never get paired with any of you. That's another thread.

Edited by md1m, 29 June 2018 - 11:01 AM.

Clubs are fluid

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#46 kekoa

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:40 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. I'm sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

I disagree.

A 7 year old is unrealistic.  I would consider it negligence on the parents part for even considering to let it happen.  I don't care what organization it is or if it has been done.  7 years old is too young.

For once I actually agree with HH.  :taunt:

7 is too young for a kid to be on the course by him/herself for several reasons.  In my experience, 8 is a good age and 9 would be perfect.  By 9, I believe most kids have accumulated enough experience to go at it on their own and are assertive enough to speak up with regards to rules infractions etc.

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#47 leezer99

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:47 PM

View Postmd1m, on 29 June 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:


I'm glad so many of you have fully developed, strong, and mature 7 year olds who can carry their own bag (in 100+ degree heat where I am), know what clubs to select, know all the rules (even though many pros do not), including the modified rules used at that age, can accurately count all of their strokes and their playing partner's strokes, etc.

I've caddied in several events with my son and it's been a wonderful experience. The other dads have been great, and we've helped guide our kids around the course with no problems. There have been many times we helped them with a rules interpretation, made sure they were ready to play when it was their turn, helped them take a proper drop, and many other things a normal person would expect to help a 7 year old with!!!

Heck, down here in TX, there are times the ground is so hard in the modified teeing area that a dad has had to help drive the tee in. It can almost take a hammer sometimes.  And if caddies weren't helping to count strokes, the scores would be a joke. I always ask my son what he got, and I hear the other dads do the same thing, and the kids almost always get it wrong, especially if it was a par 5 and a penalty stroke(s) was involved.

You golf dads can go drop your little superstar off and let them be perfect. I'll continue to have the time of my life while I caddie for my son.  I feel it is only through the guidance they get from the caddies that they are able to learn enough and gain the knowledge required to be out there on their own in a few years.

This is a whole other issue I've been wanting to share, but the biggest problem I've seen so far was a kid who did not have a caddie and got screwed over by the other golf dads. I hope I never get paired with any of you. That's another thread.

I hate inferring tone from emails, texts or forum posts but this sounds pretty combative.  I will try and address each as best I can in my own way.

I'm glad so many of you have fully developed, strong, and mature 7 year olds who can carry their own bag (in 100+ degree heat where I am), know what clubs to select, know all the rules (even though many pros do not), including the modified rules used at that age, can accurately count all of their strokes and their playing partner's strokes, etc. - Who's kid is carrying a bag nowadays?  Push carts with umbrellas and a bottle of water solve your problem.  Kids don't need to know what club to select... teach them to use a range finder and then write their yardages down on a slip of paper for them.  Rules get bent, broken and blown to smithereens when parents are there so what's the difference?  Counting strokes is probably the most difficult part and that's not that hard for a 7 year old to figure out.

I've caddied in several events with my son and it's been a wonderful experience. The other dads have been great, and we've helped guide our kids around the course with no problems. There have been many times we helped them with a rules interpretation, made sure they were ready to play when it was their turn, helped them take a proper drop, and many other things a normal person would expect to help a 7 year old with!!! - This is great to hear.  Continue to caddie for him in US Kids events or whatever other program you are part of that allows that.  The only thing I would say is that they can learn all of what you are talking about through practicing with you instead of in a tournament environment.

Heck, down here in TX, there are times the ground is so hard in the modified teeing area that a dad has had to help drive the tee in. It can almost take a hammer sometimes.  And if caddies weren't helping to count strokes, the scores would be a joke. I always ask my son what he got, and I hear the other dads do the same thing, and the kids almost always get it wrong, especially if it was a par 5 and a penalty stroke(s) was involved. - If course conditions are an issue you should be bringing that up to the tournament director.  A seven year old can count and if there are instances where there are lots of penalties then you might want to speak to your tournament director again about the types of courses you are playing.  A flat course with minimal red or yellow hazards is ideal.

You golf dads can go drop your little superstar off and let them be perfect. I'll continue to have the time of my life while I caddie for my son.  I feel it is only through the guidance they get from the caddies that they are able to learn enough and gain the knowledge required to be out there on their own in a few years. - Yep, caddying is fun and a great bonding experience at such a young age but guidance and learning should take place outside of tournaments.  The point isn't that any of us have superstars or perfect kids but if you don't believe your own kid is a superstar or perfect then that's on you and not any of us.

This is a whole other issue I've been wanting to share, but the biggest problem I've seen so far was a kid who did not have a caddie and got screwed over by the other golf dads. I hope I never get paired with any of you. That's another thread.  - Please do share.  There is a ton of experience here for you.

The last thing I'll add is that you have to give your kid a chance to impress you.  Enabling your child is the worst thing you can do for their personal development and will only delay their growth.

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#48 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:59 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. I'm sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

I disagree.

A 7 year old is unrealistic.  I would consider it negligence on the parents part for even considering to let it happen.  I don't care what organization it is or if it has been done.  7 years old is too young.
That might be the problem, you have closed your mind to what is possible and labeled what is normal in our area as negligent. Yet it has worked out with great success for over 4 decades.
The more parents are involved with the tournaments, the problems multiply.


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#49 md1m

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:21 PM

View Postleezer99, on 29 June 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

View Postmd1m, on 29 June 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

I'm glad so many of you have fully developed, strong, and mature 7 year olds who can carry their own bag (in 100+ degree heat where I am), know what clubs to select, know all the rules (even though many pros do not), including the modified rules used at that age, can accurately count all of their strokes and their playing partner's strokes, etc.

I've caddied in several events with my son and it's been a wonderful experience. The other dads have been great, and we've helped guide our kids around the course with no problems. There have been many times we helped them with a rules interpretation, made sure they were ready to play when it was their turn, helped them take a proper drop, and many other things a normal person would expect to help a 7 year old with!!!

Heck, down here in TX, there are times the ground is so hard in the modified teeing area that a dad has had to help drive the tee in. It can almost take a hammer sometimes.  And if caddies weren't helping to count strokes, the scores would be a joke. I always ask my son what he got, and I hear the other dads do the same thing, and the kids almost always get it wrong, especially if it was a par 5 and a penalty stroke(s) was involved.

You golf dads can go drop your little superstar off and let them be perfect. I'll continue to have the time of my life while I caddie for my son.  I feel it is only through the guidance they get from the caddies that they are able to learn enough and gain the knowledge required to be out there on their own in a few years.

This is a whole other issue I've been wanting to share, but the biggest problem I've seen so far was a kid who did not have a caddie and got screwed over by the other golf dads. I hope I never get paired with any of you. That's another thread.

I hate inferring tone from emails, texts or forum posts but this sounds pretty combative.  I will try and address each as best I can in my own way.

I'm glad so many of you have fully developed, strong, and mature 7 year olds who can carry their own bag (in 100+ degree heat where I am), know what clubs to select, know all the rules (even though many pros do not), including the modified rules used at that age, can accurately count all of their strokes and their playing partner's strokes, etc. - Who's kid is carrying a bag nowadays?  Push carts with umbrellas and a bottle of water solve your problem.  Kids don't need to know what club to select... teach them to use a range finder and then write their yardages down on a slip of paper for them.  Rules get bent, broken and blown to smithereens when parents are there so what's the difference?  Counting strokes is probably the most difficult part and that's not that hard for a 7 year old to figure out.

I've caddied in several events with my son and it's been a wonderful experience. The other dads have been great, and we've helped guide our kids around the course with no problems. There have been many times we helped them with a rules interpretation, made sure they were ready to play when it was their turn, helped them take a proper drop, and many other things a normal person would expect to help a 7 year old with!!! - This is great to hear.  Continue to caddie for him in US Kids events or whatever other program you are part of that allows that.  The only thing I would say is that they can learn all of what you are talking about through practicing with you instead of in a tournament environment.

Heck, down here in TX, there are times the ground is so hard in the modified teeing area that a dad has had to help drive the tee in. It can almost take a hammer sometimes.  And if caddies weren't helping to count strokes, the scores would be a joke. I always ask my son what he got, and I hear the other dads do the same thing, and the kids almost always get it wrong, especially if it was a par 5 and a penalty stroke(s) was involved. - If course conditions are an issue you should be bringing that up to the tournament director.  A seven year old can count and if there are instances where there are lots of penalties then you might want to speak to your tournament director again about the types of courses you are playing.  A flat course with minimal red or yellow hazards is ideal.

You golf dads can go drop your little superstar off and let them be perfect. I'll continue to have the time of my life while I caddie for my son.  I feel it is only through the guidance they get from the caddies that they are able to learn enough and gain the knowledge required to be out there on their own in a few years. - Yep, caddying is fun and a great bonding experience at such a young age but guidance and learning should take place outside of tournaments.  The point isn't that any of us have superstars or perfect kids but if you don't believe your own kid is a superstar or perfect then that's on you and not any of us.

This is a whole other issue I've been wanting to share, but the biggest problem I've seen so far was a kid who did not have a caddie and got screwed over by the other golf dads. I hope I never get paired with any of you. That's another thread.  - Please do share.  There is a ton of experience here for you.

The last thing I'll add is that you have to give your kid a chance to impress you.  Enabling your child is the worst thing you can do for their personal development and will only delay their growth.

My kid is 7. The organization we play in tournaments with has caddies through age 10 (9-10 age group), then they are on their own. I think that's perfect. My son will be big enough, strong enough, and experienced enough at that age. He is not now. If you think I'm "enabling" him by choosing to be his caddie when he's 7 and still learning the intricacies of golf (not to mention tournament golf) then we'll just agree to disagree. I promise I'll still help out your kid or any other kid out there who was alone to understand a rule or how to proceed.

My son does impress me in so many ways and we let him learn through mistakes when it makes sense, but tournament golf at 7 is not the place. And no, he's not going to be out there with my range finder and a yardage book! No compass?
Clubs are fluid

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#50 md1m

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:32 PM

And I just noticed that the person responding to me mentioned his kid is 7 and plays in pga league. I think that's a lot different from individual tournaments because you have a team atmosphere and (at least in my area) you have kids of different ages so the older ones can help out the younger ones. I'd be fine with my 7 year old doing that (looked into it but was told he had to be 9 for the local team), so we're doing the solo events only.  

Comparing PGA league and individual tournaments is apples and oranges in my opinion.

Clubs are fluid

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#51 propredicr

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:14 PM

View Postmd1m, on 29 June 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

And I just noticed that the person responding to me mentioned his kid is 7 and plays in pga league. I think that's a lot different from individual tournaments because you have a team atmosphere and (at least in my area) you have kids of different ages so the older ones can help out the younger ones. I'd be fine with my 7 year old doing that (looked into it but was told he had to be 9 for the local team), so we're doing the solo events only.  

Comparing PGA league and individual tournaments is apples and oranges in my opinion.

Fortunately, my kid has always been able to play in tournaments, by himself.   We go over strategy, etc. when we are practicing, on the course.  There is no need for me to be there with him in tourneys, too.   That is how they learn on their own.  Sometimes it may take longer, but, they eventually figure it out.

I was surprised last year at IMG that they still allowed caddies up to 10 yo. It was super slow play with dadís lining up their kids on every shot and putts.   I just pushed the cart.  Didnít get near the tee box or green, because we cannot spectate at home, so why donit there?  I canít imagine how slow play would be with parent caddies and the rules debates some of you speak of.  

I have my kid read the rules.  When in doubt, call a rules official.  Actually, just call a rules official.  Too many times kids donít know the most beneficial ball placement.  When you see something, say something immediately.  Always protect the field!  Nip it in the bud and the kids should be doing it, not the parents.  With younger kids, I think it is okay for a little leniency for their first time (warning/explain to parent).  After that, playing partners can call penalties and their shouldnít be any issues.   The higher level tourneys, players are more experiences and should know the rules.  So, call the infractions.

7 is too young to be out there by themselves.  Iíve seen too many kids break down after a big blow up hole and the poor kid isnít mature enough at that point to regroup and finish 18.

Even 8 is too young in some cases.   9 is perfect.  The kids, girls and boys are strong enough to keep up with their group with carts.   By the time they are 10-11,  they are ready to go at it alone (without an adult/group).  

Things I see that irritate the kids in tourney play...slow play, over analyzing shots, lack of etiquette,  bad attitudes/arrogance, stroke shavers.  So, if you are considering letting your kid play by themselves, please prepare them to be considerate.  Keep having fun and growing this great game!



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#52 heavy_hitter

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:35 PM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

Yes, she is 17 now and that is how it was done until they reached the 11-12 year old division, then it became no "babysitting." And I am thankful that it was done this way.
It is not at all unrealistic.
I've been through it all, and what I haven't seen, I have heard about.

I have a daughter that plays collegiality.  At 7 this is unrealistic.
Congratulations for you and your daughter. I'm sure you have seen as much as I have and it appears you have done the right things.
I beg to differ when you write that at 7 years age that the players playing solo with one parent in the group is unrealistic. As I have stated before, it has been done and continues to be done and we are both better for it.
The more involvement the parents have during the actual competitions, the greater the chance of problems materializing.

I disagree.

A 7 year old is unrealistic.  I would consider it negligence on the parents part for even considering to let it happen.  I don't care what organization it is or if it has been done.  7 years old is too young.
That might be the problem, you have closed your mind to what is possible and labeled what is normal in our area as negligent. Yet it has worked out with great success for over 4 decades.
The more parents are involved with the tournaments, the problems multiply.

Peanut Allergies, Gators, Snakes, Bobcats, Wild Boars, Nutrition, Advil, Allergies, Heat, Water, and other reasons I can't think of is why I wouldn't trust another adult with a 7 year old on a golf course to watch and protect my kid  Developmentally, maturity, physically, they are not ready.  I am not going to trust another parent that an organization approves of to monitor my 7 year old kid.  Not going to happen.  That is negligence by the organization and by the parent at 7-8 years old.  Even if I knew the parent I would question it.  I wouldn't trust any parent with my kid.   My decision has little to do with the golfing aspect.  


My degree is in education.  What you are saying is wrong on so many levels.

I do agree that parents can ruin events.  That happens when you don't have strong leaders and rules running an organization.  Standards must be set high and followed.  You also must educate the parents to not be afraid to speak up if they see other parents not following rules.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 29 June 2018 - 02:42 PM.


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#53 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:56 PM

Very nice your degree is in education, my doctorate is in education as well.
Claiming negligence without fully understanding the situation can be considered closed minded.
Oh well, esta bien.

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#54 heavy_hitter

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 03:09 PM

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Very nice your degree is in education, my doctorate is in education as well.
Claiming negligence without fully understanding the situation can be considered closed minded.
Oh well, esta bien.

Close minded?  Really?  I have said it a thousand times and will say it a thousand more "A Doctorate doesn't make you smart!".

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#55 leezer99

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 03:57 PM

View Postmd1m, on 29 June 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

And I just noticed that the person responding to me mentioned his kid is 7 and plays in pga league. I think that's a lot different from individual tournaments because you have a team atmosphere and (at least in my area) you have kids of different ages so the older ones can help out the younger ones. I'd be fine with my 7 year old doing that (looked into it but was told he had to be 9 for the local team), so we're doing the solo events only.  

Comparing PGA league and individual tournaments is apples and oranges in my opinion.

I didn't say PGA Jr. League (the matching shirt thing)... It's a PGA league where kids go out and play tournaments against other kids.  The Junior Development Tour in that league is where the kids go out on their own playing par three courses.  The next level up is the Players Tour where my son is now.  Some courses allow spectators and some don't.


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#56 chrissdc

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:05 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 29 June 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

View Postchrissdc, on 29 June 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Very nice your degree is in education, my doctorate is in education as well.
Claiming negligence without fully understanding the situation can be considered closed minded.
Oh well, esta bien.

Close minded?  Really?  I have said it a thousand times and will say it a thousand more "A Doctorate doesn't make you smart!".
I agree, it doesnít make a person smart. I believe you were the one who stated that your degree was in education. You stated this to lend credibility to your opinion, and to establish your opinion as fact.
Stating an opinion and declaring as fact generally is considered close minded.
Back to the OP, parents should not be calling penalties. Kids can handle things between themselves.

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#57 md1m

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:33 PM

View Postleezer99, on 29 June 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

View Postmd1m, on 29 June 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

And I just noticed that the person responding to me mentioned his kid is 7 and plays in pga league. I think that's a lot different from individual tournaments because you have a team atmosphere and (at least in my area) you have kids of different ages so the older ones can help out the younger ones. I'd be fine with my 7 year old doing that (looked into it but was told he had to be 9 for the local team), so we're doing the solo events only.  

Comparing PGA league and individual tournaments is apples and oranges in my opinion.

I didn't say PGA Jr. League (the matching shirt thing)... It's a PGA league where kids go out and play tournaments against other kids.  The Junior Development Tour in that league is where the kids go out on their own playing par three courses.  The next level up is the Players Tour where my son is now.  Some courses allow spectators and some don't.

Was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. 7 is too young for my kid, but you have fun.
Clubs are fluid

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#58 mrshinsa

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 02:08 AM

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 28 June 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 28 June 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Please link me on the spectator rule.  If it's there then the entire field last week needs to be DQ'd or assessed penalties.

Spectator Policy: If spectator carts are permitted, the above Cart Policy must be followed. Cell phones, headphones, pagers, and the like may not be used during play. All walking spectators should stay on or near the cart path at all times. Spectators are not allowed on the greens or in the fairway. Please stay behind the group being followed and do not go ahead to spot shots in advance of play. First offense: warning, Second offense: removal from the golf course.


I think staying behind the group is stupid.  That is not how you spectate golf.

Ok, but its not a penalty on the player and the rule actually has to be enforced to get the warning and subsequent removal from the course.  'Most' spectators know you can't be on the green, but I've seen parents and grandparents literally stand on the fringe to watch their child play.

Meh~

That's nothing.  
We played with a grandfather spectator, who was tending the flag.  
The boy shot 68, so I didn't say anything.   :not_i:

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#59 hangontight

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:00 AM

At RWB regional this weekend in Pinehurst the boy in a few groups ahead had a hired videographer following them both days... on the Green , , walking fairway with them and everything.  Doubtful they had special permission with USKG, In my mind he was a spectator.  There certainly was some level of distraction for the other kids in that group.

Edited by hangontight, 02 July 2018 - 08:03 AM.


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#60 leezer99

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:30 AM

View Posthangontight, on 02 July 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

At RWB regional this weekend in Pinehurst the boy in a few groups ahead had a hired videographer following them both days... on the Green , , walking fairway with them and everything.  Doubtful they had special permission with USKG, In my mind he was a spectator.  There certainly was some level of distraction for the other kids in that group.

#golfprodigy did this on our local US Kids tour one time.  All I could do was laugh.


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