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Second Hand Golf Balls from the Bay


48 replies to this topic

#1 royourboat

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 06:20 AM

I buy second hand golf balls off the bay. I think the stores often buy them in bulk and put them through a typical dishwasher with high heat. Has anyone found performance issues with them.

I like to tee the ball up.. using man sized clubs.

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 09 June 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

View Postmothman65, on 09 June 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Is Melbourne getting any closer to happening Momte?

Still need some more, but it's pretty likely I'll come.  Just don't know when yet.

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#2 mvhoffman

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:42 AM

Depends on what you are buying. ProV and comparable are a great deal 2nd hand. Other balls, cheaper balls, are usually only a few dollars more for new. I have purchased many 2nd hand and donít ever remember an issue. Make sure you search around for a good reputable company.
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#3 MSUIRONDAWGS

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 09:10 AM

View Postroyourboat, on 19 June 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

I buy second hand golf balls off the bay. I think the stores often buy them in bulk and put them through a typical dishwasher with high heat. Has anyone found performance issues with them.

never and I've been buying them for years

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#4 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 09:45 AM

Try:

Golfballsdirect.com

https://www.golfballsdirect.com/

They run specials all the time. Free shipping. 25% off etc.  Good quality balls.  The 5A’s are essentially new.  Very impressive.

I used to buy there before the now legendary  “Srixon XV trial pack sale”  last year when I bought 12 dozen for the year at $20 a dozen.  
Last month I bought 20 dozen  when they went on sale again for $20 a dozen.  I’m good for 2- 3 years now.

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#5 1badbadger

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 05:20 AM

Here is some information on second-hand golf balls that hopefully everyone will find helpful or educational.

Let's start with some definitions to help understand what products are offered:

What is the difference between a recycled golf ball and a refurbished golf ball?

A recycled ball is simply a used ball that has been washed, sorted and graded by condition.  A refurbished ball (also called refinished or reconditioned) is stripped of the clear coat and paint, then re-painted, clear coated, and stamped with manufacturer’s logos.  Since these layers are not necessarily applied according to manufacturer’s specifications, the depth of the dimples is altered which significantly changes the aerodynamics of the ball.  By law, this process must be indicated with a “refinished” stamp on one of the poles.  This refinishing process is used on balls that are so badly discolored that the standard cleaning method isn't enough to make them sell-able.  So although refinished balls look new, they are basically the lowest grade with a new paint job which is hiding the damage.

What happens to golf balls that have been submerged in water?  Does it affect the performance?

Golf balls do absorb water.  The amount will vary depending on variables like the temp of the water, the type of ball and the materials used during manufacture, and how long the ball has been submerged. Once the water is absorbed into the golf ball, drying of the ball is very slow at ambient temperature.  Even when extreme drying of the ball is attempted at 160°F under vacuum, the absorbed water is not completely removed.

Testing by re-sellers that indicate an insignificant loss in performance are often conducted by shooting balls out of a cannon rather than being hit with a golf club.  This tests the aerodynamics of the ball, but it doesn’t test the energy transfer on a ball struck with a club. While water may not have a big effect on aerodynamics, water can have a HUGE effect on distance and energy transfer coming off of a club face.

For a two-piece ball, being in the water typically makes the ball harder in terms of compression, and it also slows down the coefficient of restitution (the ability of the ball to regain its roundness after impact), and that makes it fly shorter.  In tests of a two-piece ball, the carry and roll after eight days in the water was 244.9 yards compared with 250.7 yards for a new two-piece ball, a loss of 5.8 yards in distance after only 8 days!  

Since most second-hand balls are recovered from water hazards, expect some loss in performance.  This amount will vary from ball-to-ball depending on the variables mentioned earlier. You cannot detect the performance impairment with a visual inspection. Just because a golf ball looks brand new doesn't mean it is, or that it will perform the same.  

I understand that golf equipment is expensive and we all want to stretch our dollar and get the most bang for our buck.  If you want to save money on golf balls, look for last year's models that have been discontinued, or logo over-runs, or deals like buy 2/get 1 free.  This way you'll know your golf balls will perform the way they were designed and be consistent.


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#6 976-Evil

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 03:41 PM

^ thanks for that. I didn't realize the loss of performance was that big on a ball from the water.

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#7 BrAdki

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 04:44 PM

I’ve heard rumors of water balls damaging clubs but don’t have anything to back that up didn’t know if anyone heard anything similar?

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#8 cristphoto

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 04:51 PM

I wouldn't think they would damage clubs but their performance is iffy enough to make them a poor deal.

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#9 BrAdki

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

View Postcristphoto, on 30 July 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

I wouldn't think they would damage clubs but their performance is iffy enough to make them a poor deal.

I’ll play them in just casual games with buddies but looking to shoot good scores I’ll always use new balls

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#10 TsarBomba

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:37 PM

5.8 yards after 8 days.

Fair to assume that is the minimum they have been in there.

The guys that come collect at our club do it once every year or two..

There are too many good deals out there to take that loss.


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#11 msg

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 10:15 AM

I have been buying golf balls from Ebay and always used. I never had any issues once with them. Or maybe I am not that good to even notice the difference. My lowest rounds were finished with used golf balls. I do wonder though that the balls that I buy might have indeed come from water hazards, I may squeeze some more distance from new golf balls but I am too cheap to buy new ones. Maybe when they are one sale I would. :D

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#12 OSKARJONES

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 02:55 PM

Last year I purchased some used Callaway Chrome Soft on eBay. They all looked nearly new. I only use them in a shag bag and to hit into a net in my basement. Some of the balls didn't feel right but I figured it was the indoor net thing. The other day one of them split in half. It had a green core and then the cover. I don't believe the Chrome Soft was ever a 2 piece ball.

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#13 MitchellGolfing

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 05:30 PM

View PostOSKARJONES, on 04 August 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Last year I purchased some used Callaway Chrome Soft on eBay. They all looked nearly new. I only use them in a shag bag and to hit into a net in my basement. Some of the balls didn't feel right but I figured it was the indoor net thing. The other day one of them split in half. It had a green core and then the cover. I don't believe the Chrome Soft was ever a 2 piece ball.
Iíve heard a similar story of someone seeing the paint chip off a refurbished pro v that they bought, and underneath the paint it was actually a Pinnacle Gold.
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#14 bonsett

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 12:14 PM

Did a little research and found this study.  According to this research, golf balls in the water up to 5 months had very little effect on performance.  I would like to see a link from 1badbadger information.  They seem to contradict.

Link to study:
https://golfballdive...re-played-balls

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#15 Break81

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:41 PM

View PostOSKARJONES, on 04 August 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Last year I purchased some used Callaway Chrome Soft on eBay. They all looked nearly new. I only use them in a shag bag and to hit into a net in my basement. Some of the balls didn't feel right but I figured it was the indoor net thing. The other day one of them split in half. It had a green core and then the cover. I don't believe the Chrome Soft was ever a 2 piece ball.
The original CS (3 pc) has a greenish / blueish core and the outer mantle was just beneath the cover. Look at the "I cut them open so you don't have too" thread on page 1. Did it look like that?

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#16 BB28403

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:52 AM

A ziploc bag keeps air and water out.  Urethane is 8x thicker than a ziploc bag.  I don’t think anything is getting in.

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#17 RobE

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 06:31 AM

View Postbonsett, on 05 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Did a little research and found this study.  According to this research, golf balls in the water up to 5 months had very little effect on performance.  I would like to see a link from 1badbadger information.  They seem to contradict.

Link to study:
https://golfballdive...re-played-balls

True, and I'd like to see the link and what sort of data was used or if it was just opinion.
Because, end of the day, it's rather easy to check yourself if the used balls you've purchased have become waterlogged (and/or absorbed moisture), and that's by using a digital kitchen scale to weigh them.
I was curious a few years ago and weighed a bunch of different brands of balls, from premium/tour brands and to include some of the lesser brands (because I "thought" some balls felt lighter), and quickly found that ALL golf balls weighed about 47 grams.... We're talking grams here, not ounces, but grams.
And then to test the waterlogged theory, remembering the balata balls of my youth that did feel heavier (even comparing them in your hand) when left in ponds or creeks for too long because of their thin covers and cavities created by windings, I put bunch of modern balls in a bucket of water for months during the offseason, and when I pulled them out in the spring and weighed them they still came in at 47 grams. I guess it's possible for balls to absorb some moisture over extended periods, like 5-10 years, being submerged, but I'd think the re-sellers aren't selling 2008 ProV1s.

Now I agree, with the discounted cost of last year's discontinued models available and/or bulk pricing deals you can find, why bother with second-hand golf balls. I still find it hard to believe that modern cavity-less multi-piece balls are going to absorb any water.
But, like most things, I could be wrong. :golfer:

Edited by RobE, 06 August 2018 - 06:36 AM.


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#18 tsecor

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 06:35 AM

View Postbonsett, on 05 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Did a little research and found this study.  According to this research, golf balls in the water up to 5 months had very little effect on performance.  I would like to see a link from 1badbadger information.  They seem to contradict.

Link to study:
https://golfballdive...re-played-balls

View Postbonsett, on 05 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Did a little research and found this study.  According to this research, golf balls in the water up to 5 months had very little effect on performance.  I would like to see a link from 1badbadger information.  They seem to contradict.

Link to study:
https://golfballdive...re-played-balls
I thinkn there is a lot of science to show the opposite of this....probably created by the manufacturers, but water balls are very questionable as far as maintaining original performance

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#19 cristphoto

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:55 AM

I canít help but question the accuracy of a test of water balls conducted by a group called ďgolf ball diversĒ.  Every test Iíve seen in the last 10 years shows a loss of performance. Some showed loss after only being submerged for two weeks.

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#20 North Butte

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:56 AM

Polyurethane does attract and retain moisture fairly readily. More than you'd ever want to know about it here:

https://www.ptonline...roscopic-resins

But here's the executive summary:

Quote

Hygroscopic Resins
(i.e., Nylon, ABS, Acrylic, Polyurethane, Polycarbonate, PET, PBT,)

Have a strong affinity to attract moisture
Will absorb moisture onto their molecular structure if exposed to ambient air
Internal moisture can not be removed with hot air alone

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#21 Break81

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:43 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 06 August 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Polyurethane does attract and retain moisture fairly readily. More than you'd ever want to know about it here:

https://www.ptonline...roscopic-resins

But here's the executive summary:

Quote

Hygroscopic Resins
(i.e., Nylon, ABS, Acrylic, Polyurethane, Polycarbonate, PET, PBT,)

Have a strong affinity to attract moisture
Will absorb moisture onto their molecular structure if exposed to ambient air
Internal moisture can not be removed with hot air alone
   Weird since polyurethane is what you use to moisture protect and seal wood cabinets after staining them.  It’s supposed lock out moisture on wood.  

  Not debating anything other than what I know about refinishing my bathroom vanity last week.
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#22 North Butte

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:48 AM

View PostBreak81, on 06 August 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 06 August 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Polyurethane does attract and retain moisture fairly readily. More than you'd ever want to know about it here:

https://www.ptonline...roscopic-resins

But here's the executive summary:

Quote

Hygroscopic Resins
(i.e., Nylon, ABS, Acrylic, Polyurethane, Polycarbonate, PET, PBT,)

Have a strong affinity to attract moisture
Will absorb moisture onto their molecular structure if exposed to ambient air
Internal moisture can not be removed with hot air alone
   Weird since polyurethane is what you use to moisture protect and seal wood cabinets after staining them.  It’s supposed lock out moisture on wood.  

  Not debating anything other than what I know about refinishing my bathroom vanity last week.

It might be a difference in thermoset versus thermoplastic urethane formulations. That article is about the resin pellets which are melted down and used in thermoplastic urethane (TPU) products. The stuff we use to finish surfaces is not TPU (or at least I don't think it could be).

Maybe that's another check mark on the plus side for cast thermoset golf ball covers...

https://www.docenti....idattico/540167

Quote

TPUs prepared with polyethylene oxide soft segments are elastomeric, but phase separation of hard and soft segments is hindered by the large number of ether groups in the soft segment available to hydrogen bond with the hard segment [58, 59]. This hard–soft segment interaction competes with intrahard segment hydrogen bonding promoting phase mixing rather than phase segregation. In addition, polyethylene oxide soft segments are relatively hygroscopic. TPUs with polyethylene oxide absorb up to 15% of their weight in water from the atmosphere [60], whereas TPU with PTMEG soft segments will absorb about 1% water by mass at standard test conditions. Water plasticization of PEG TPUs greatly degrades TPU tensile properties

Edited by North Butte, 06 August 2018 - 09:51 AM.

Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#23 dubbelbogey

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:22 AM

Unless we know the specific formulation of the polyurethane compounds being used, I think any speculation about their behavior under wet/submerged conditions is not likely to be very meaningful. There is an enormous variation in how these polymers behave when wet and generalizations are not possible. Just a casual browse of the interwebs shows some polyurethanes are formulated specifically for their ability to resist water absorption, others are not. Which are used in golf ball is not known to any outside of the ball industry, and likely even only a few within.

And, likewise, I'd take any manufacturer supplied opinion on this with a large grain of salt as their interests are only to sell more new balls.

Edited by nemoblack, 06 August 2018 - 10:23 AM.


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#24 North Butte

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:33 AM

Likewise the opinion of someone selling used balls.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#25 dubbelbogey

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:38 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 06 August 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Likewise the opinion of someone selling used balls.

Agreed.


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#26 me05501

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:11 AM

I sorta doubt anyone here has a swing that is more consistent than the golf balls he plays, regardless of the condition of the ball.

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#27 TsarBomba

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:24 AM

View Postme05501, on 06 August 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

I sorta doubt anyone here has a swing that is more consistent than the golf balls he plays, regardless of the condition of the ball.

Yes this is true. However I doubt any of us would choose to loose 6 yards on both bad and good shots to save a penny.

You came to a golf ball forum...presumably to learn more or provide input on matters relating to WHICH GOLF BALL..saying the ball doesn't matter sort of defeats the whole point of why people chime in here.

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#28 Break81

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

View Postme05501, on 06 August 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

I sorta doubt anyone here has a swing that is more consistent than the golf balls he plays, regardless of the condition of the ball.
  Yep 5-8 yards on the driver is hard to verify because on any given day, even with new balls I can have a 10 yard differential.

  Maybe on wedges and short clubs it would be more noticeable, however if a driver is 5-8 yards a SW would be maybe 2-3 ?
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#29 North Butte

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:26 PM

In the past I've played through a couple batches of used ProV1x. IIRC there were about three times (out of 100 or so balls) when after a few holes one ball just didn't seem to be quite going my normal distance off the irons and wedges.

It was so infrequent that it could easily have just been a string of poor shots that I somehow thought were solid. But what the heck, at about a dollar a ball I just tossed the offenders and grabbed a different ball out the bag.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#30 bonsett

bonsett

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:04 PM

View PostTsarBomba, on 06 August 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

View Postme05501, on 06 August 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

I sorta doubt anyone here has a swing that is more consistent than the golf balls he plays, regardless of the condition of the ball.

Yes this is true. However I doubt any of us would choose to loose 6 yards on both bad and good shots to save a penny.

You came to a golf ball forum...presumably to learn more or provide input on matters relating to WHICH GOLF BALL..saying the ball doesn't matter sort of defeats the whole point of why people chime in here.


Its a lot more than pennies.  I can buy 5A Grade, no logo Pro V1's for about $20 per dozen which is less than half the price of new balls.  That's what I'm trying to find out here from other golfers their experience with used balls.  I think RobE is on to something with the weight.  If he weighed the ball right after it was taken out of the water and it weighed the exact as a new out of the box ball, how could there be any water in it?


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