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Forged irons and going out of spec


32 replies to this topic

#1 tiger1873

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:43 AM

Not sure how true it is but I have heard forged irons can go out of spec and you need to check the loft and lie a lot if you hitting them because they go out spec.

If this is true then it is safe to say that accuracy can be an issue as the irons age? At a certain point should they be replaced because accuracy is lost?

Also what about cast irons do they get the same issues?  

I also heard that irons never go out spec and you could use them pretty much forever.


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#2 Spongerob

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:08 AM

With forged irons they will move. It's best to get your club guy to check the lies and lofts once or twice a year depending on how much you play. They say metal has no memory but I'm not so sure. I had a set of Hogan Apex irons that would go flat 3* from 1* upright over the winter. 5 months of no golf and the irons would move. I have never seen cast clubs move but I hear it's possible.

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#3 ckaufman

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:09 AM

It's never a bad idea to get the lofts and lies on your irons checked. Tour players do it on a pretty regular basis for the exact reason you just described. Patrick Reed said last year that he discovered the lofts on his Callaway blades were off by as much as 2.5 degrees per club. That's huge for a tour player and leads to big distance control problems.
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#4 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:21 AM

View PostSpongerob, on 14 June 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

With forged irons they will move. It's best to get your club guy to check the lies and lofts once or twice a year depending on how much you play. They say metal has no memory but I'm not so sure. I had a set of Hogan Apex irons that would go flat 3* from 1* upright over the winter. 5 months of no golf and the irons would move. I have never seen cast clubs move but I hear it's possible.

No they didn’t.  There is literally absolutely no way this is possible.  You must have had some issue with measuring them.  Your clubs did not magically bend with no use.

If you hit thousands of balls all winter off of mats and you are the slightest bit steep you can bend forged clubs...perhaps a degree, maybe two if you are extremely high swing speed.
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#5 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:23 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 14 June 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not sure how true it is but I have heard forged irons can go out of spec and you need to check the loft and lie a lot if you hitting them because they go out spec.

If this is true then it is safe to say that accuracy can be an issue as the irons age? At a certain point should they be replaced because accuracy is lost?

Also what about cast irons do they get the same issues?  

I also heard that irons never go out spec and you could use them pretty much forever.

Have them checked and adjusted once a year.  They will last until you wear out the grooves.....which may be forever.

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#6 tiger1873

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:28 PM

OK so it sound like they need to be checked every so often.  I am also thinking if there soft enough to move then perhaps the face could bend too?  I know it not as likely but perhaps I need to check that as well.

It also makes me think anything over 3 or 4 years old should probably be replaced in the general scheme of things.

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#7 RogerinNewZealand

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

As i get charged $5 per club to measure, i just measure yardage on a field with 10 balls
and look at the gaps!! No doubt my 94mph smooth driver swing is too small
to bend the Forged Mizuno or Hogans i have !!
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#8 Awainer1

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 05:26 PM

Iím personally extremely skeptical of this idea that irons change specs I think it has more to do with people not getting consistent measurements due to a variety of factors.

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#9 oz dee cee

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:05 PM

They definitely move if youíre hitting them a fair bit. And just quietly, Iíve had plenty of sets come from the manufacturer and the lies and lofts are off. 😬
If youíre playing every week and practicing, check them once a year minimum.  For $5 an iron or less, itís chump change compared to what we spend money on for this sport.

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#10 Shanks2424

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:46 PM

Forged irons do move. My dad has a old set of Titleist forged blades the tour model. He pulled his five iron out at 190 and it it 220. He took them into the golf shop and  the loft of his 5 iron was the same as his 2 iron. I get my irons adjusted 1-2 times a year. I try and play 2-3 times a month. The more you play the more you need adjusted. My rule of Thumb dont know why i go on this but for every 40 rounds check your irons 1 or two times a year . So if you play 80 rounds in a year you should check them 2-4 times a year is my opinion. Witch reminds me I need to get my Mp29 irons checked.

Edited by Shanks2424, 14 June 2018 - 06:47 PM.

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#11 jll62

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:59 PM

View PostAwainer1, on 14 June 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm personally extremely skeptical of this idea that irons change specs I think it has more to do with people not getting consistent measurements due to a variety of factors.

This isn't some old myth. If you play/practice a lot, especially if you hit off mats or firm turf consistently, they can and will get out of spec over the course of a season. I check my specs at least 3 times a season on a machine I've owned for 15 years, so there are no measurement issues. Depending upon how much I'm playing, it's not uncommon for the clubs I'm using the most to change by a degree or more over the course of a couple of months.


View PostRogerinNewZealand, on 14 June 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

As i get charged $5 per club to measure, i just measure yardage on a field with 10 balls
and look at the gaps!! No doubt my 94mph smooth driver swing is too small
to bend the Forged Mizuno or Hogans i have !!

Your swing is not too slow to have issues over time. Spend the money to get the lofts and lies checked once a year. Even if there are no changes, it's added peace of mind that your specs are correct.
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#12 Awainer1

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:36 AM

My point is that a loft lie machine is not the proper way to check lies anyways. You need a dedicated guage to get exact measurements.

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#13 BrianMcG

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 07:19 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 14 June 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

OK so it sound like they need to be checked every so often.  I am also thinking if there soft enough to move then perhaps the face could bend too?  I know it not as likely but perhaps I need to check that as well.

It also makes me think anything over 3 or 4 years old should probably be replaced in the general scheme of things.

Not unless youíre beating 10,000 balls a day.

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#14 tiger1873

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:04 PM

View PostBrianMcG, on 15 June 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 14 June 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

OK so it sound like they need to be checked every so often.  I am also thinking if there soft enough to move then perhaps the face could bend too?  I know it not as likely but perhaps I need to check that as well.

It also makes me think anything over 3 or 4 years old should probably be replaced in the general scheme of things.

Not unless youíre beating 10,000 balls a day.

If the lie and loft can bend and from the reponses I believe that it is common then that means other specs could be out of spec too.

It also means that forged irons will lose accuracy after a while and being hit and if that is the case you need to replace them also with metal fatigued it going to get worse rather then better .

What I am getting at is buying forged use irons might be a bad idea.

Edited by tiger1873, 15 June 2018 - 01:05 PM.


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#15 BrianMcG

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:44 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 15 June 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 15 June 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 14 June 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

OK so it sound like they need to be checked every so often.  I am also thinking if there soft enough to move then perhaps the face could bend too?  I know it not as likely but perhaps I need to check that as well.

It also makes me think anything over 3 or 4 years old should probably be replaced in the general scheme of things.

Not unless you're beating 10,000 balls a day.

If the lie and loft can bend and from the reponses I believe that it is common then that means other specs could be out of spec too.

It also means that forged irons will lose accuracy after a while and being hit and if that is the case you need to replace them also with metal fatigued it going to get worse rather then better .

What I am getting at is buying forged use irons might be a bad idea.

You would be incorrect. Unless the grooves are toast from someone beating 10,000 balls a day. The face doesn't bend.  The reason the hosel can bend out of spec is because it is made to be bent.

The hosel is very thin compared to the rest of the club head. I believe you think the face will start to bend around the golf ball, but its just not something that has ever happened.

A weekend golfer simply has no need to replace their irons every few years, unless they just want to. New clubs are cool too, but nobody buys new clubs because the faces have bent.

Cast clubs get bent out of adjustment also, just an FYI.


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#16 Titleist_242

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 06:11 PM

View PostShanks2424, on 14 June 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

Forged irons do move. My dad has a old set of Titleist forged blades the tour model. He pulled his five iron out at 190 and it it 220. He took them into the golf shop and  the loft of his 5 iron was the same as his 2 iron. I get my irons adjusted 1-2 times a year. I try and play 2-3 times a month. The more you play the more you need adjusted. My rule of Thumb dont know why i go on this but for every 40 rounds check your irons 1 or two times a year . So if you play 80 rounds in a year you should check them 2-4 times a year is my opinion. Witch reminds me I need to get my Mp29 irons checked.

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#17 Sean2

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 06:13 PM

I get mine checked annually. Usually just a few minor tweaks.
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#18 Buzzkill

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:37 PM

I don't believe forged irons go out of whack for many seasons/years if that IMO.  I'll check specs when I first get a used set because you never know what lies the previous owner had/used.
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#19 LeoLeo99

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 09:01 PM

View PostBuzzkill, on 15 June 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

I don't believe forged irons go out of whack for many seasons/years if that IMO.  I'll check specs when I first get a used set because you never know what lies the previous owner had/used.

I probably played close to a 1000 rounds with my old FG17 irons and never noticed anything amiss regarding gapping.  I mean, I guess it could happen.  The lofts metal could bend but I don't think it's common.

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#20 KRW59

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 10:28 PM

In my experience there are two factors in a clubs design that will influence
if or how easily loft and lie will change / go out of spec .

1) material, SC3 , 1020 and forged 8620 bend alot easier than 1025 or 1030 carbon
2) hosel to head transition, thickness and length makes a difference.

Also... In the hands of a skilled club builder that knows their machine . A loft
and lie machine can be used to measure clubs fairly accurately. I have a 6 iron
that I had bent and measured on a high dollar club auditor, to exactly 30* loft/
62* lie , I use it to check the calibration of my unit on a regular basis.

The key to accurate measurements is consistent orientation and clamp pressure.
I can measure to .5* or less with my loft and lie machince...good enough for
me.... and I am cursed with extreme builder spec O.C.D....

Edited by KRW59, 15 June 2018 - 10:46 PM.

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#21 scott_Donald

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 03:52 AM

dam this thread.

My Mp25/mp5 set is now 2 and a half years old, getting them checked next Monday  - interesting to see how the 4-9 land in spec.

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#22 denkea

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:17 AM

View Postscott_Donald, on 16 June 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

dam this thread.

My Mp25/mp5 set is now 2 and a half years old, getting them checked next Monday  - interesting to see how the 4-9 land in spec.

The problem is that not knowing what there were exactly 2 1/2 years ago you won't know if/how much they've changed.  

The good thing is that you can have them adjusted exactly to Mizuno's specs for those models.

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#23 scott_Donald

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:29 AM

View Postdenkea, on 16 June 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

View Postscott_Donald, on 16 June 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

dam this thread.

My Mp25/mp5 set is now 2 and a half years old, getting them checked next Monday  - interesting to see how the 4-9 land in spec.

The problem is that not knowing what there were exactly 2 1/2 years ago you won't know if/how much they've changed.  

The good thing is that you can have them adjusted exactly to Mizuno's specs for those models.

agreed. interesting to see what they are compared to spec.

I range once a week on mats at least and probably play 4 times on course a week in the summer months, so they have had a lot of use.

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#24 Awainer1

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:38 AM

View PostKRW59, on 15 June 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

In my experience there are two factors in a clubs design that will influence
if or how easily loft and lie will change / go out of spec .

1) material, SC3 , 1020 and forged 8620 bend alot easier than 1025 or 1030 carbon
2) hosel to head transition, thickness and length makes a difference.

Also... In the hands of a skilled club builder that knows their machine . A loft
and lie machine can be used to measure clubs fairly accurately. I have a 6 iron
that I had bent and measured on a high dollar club auditor, to exactly 30* loft/
62* lie , I use it to check the calibration of my unit on a regular basis.

The key to accurate measurements is consistent orientation and clamp pressure.
I can measure to .5* or less with my loft and lie machince...good enough for
me.... and I am cursed with extreme builder spec O.C.D....

The issue is that in order to measure the real lie angle the grooves arenít sufficient. They are only ok if you want to measure how much you have bent a club.

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#25 BIG STU

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:44 AM

View PostSpongerob, on 14 June 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

With forged irons they will move. It's best to get your club guy to check the lies and lofts once or twice a year depending on how much you play. They say metal has no memory but I'm not so sure. I had a set of Hogan Apex irons that would go flat 3* from 1* upright over the winter. 5 months of no golf and the irons would move. I have never seen cast clubs move but I hear it's possible.
Cast clubs it depends on what material it is cast from. A lot of the softer cast clubs will move
Now a good example of them not moving would be Ping Eye 2s those things are hard. Now I state that in the normal course of play of course if you hit a root or rock then that is another story. Some of the softer cast ie: Mizuno I have seen them move some in the normal course of play.
Now that deal with the Hogan irons that sounds bizarre to me moving 4* just sitting there. That is a new one on me

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#26 BIG STU

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:51 AM

View PostKRW59, on 15 June 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

In my experience there are two factors in a clubs design that will influence
if or how easily loft and lie will change / go out of spec .

1) material, SC3 , 1020 and forged 8620 bend alot easier than 1025 or 1030 carbon
2) hosel to head transition, thickness and length makes a difference.

Also... In the hands of a skilled club builder that knows their machine . A loft
and lie machine can be used to measure clubs fairly accurately. I have a 6 iron
that I had bent and measured on a high dollar club auditor, to exactly 30* loft/
62* lie , I use it to check the calibration of my unit on a regular basis.

The key to accurate measurements is consistent orientation and clamp pressure.
I can measure to .5* or less with my loft and lie machince...good enough for
me.... and I am cursed with extreme builder spec O.C.D....
No you are not "cursed with OCD" you just take pride in your work. I am the same way. I also check the old school way with a level surface plate and club protractor. Like you I also have several test clubs that are not hit and check my machine from time to time. My machine is in my shop out back and NO ONE but me touches it period. I can be downright anal about my machine. I have had some of the kids at my course call me and ask if they can bend up a couple of clubs on my machine? I tell them no but bring them by and I will be glad to check and bend them myself. I do not do much work for the public anymore just my stuff and stuff for friends
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
5 Wood TM V- Steel 18* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid Adams Peanut 22*  Pro Launch Red
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Cleveland 588 56* DG Sensicore
LW  Cleveland 588 60* DG Sensicore custom sole Scratch EGG style
Putter- 1985 PGA Tommy Armour Ironmaster
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer or Vintage Titleist Mini Staff
Vintage-- Too many variables to list and I get tired of updating this thing!
Founding Father of the Outlaw golf Association Member #1--Screw the USGA play what you want to
Home of Redneck Hippie golf where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stop

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#27 KRW59

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:05 AM

I'm aware there are cases of grooves not always being exactly horizontal to
the actual lie in relation to hosel angle. Special grinds.

But I have yet to find a OEM that does not use the grooves as their horizontal
measurement for published standard specs.


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#28 Awainer1

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:19 AM

View PostKRW59, on 16 June 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

I'm aware there are cases of grooves not always being exactly horizontal to
the actual lie in relation to hosel angle. Special grinds.

But I have yet to find a OEM that does not use the grooves as their horizontal
measurement for published standard specs.

Which is why I donít trust them and use Wishon clubs myself. Nike used to have a green machine on their tour van. If u watch Tom Wishons video on his new irons he also explains how in the forging process his irons use an extra step to make it so thereís less variance in the shape of the iron.

Iíve discussed this before on here but regardless of grinds ive found that the grooves are rarely if ever exactly parallel to the real lie angle.

Edited by Awainer1, 17 June 2018 - 07:24 AM.


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#29 KRW59

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 08:01 AM

Effective lie angle found by the dry eraser mark on the face, is what counts.
Shot shape will be most important factor, and angle that gives the best results
not whether or not the line is perpendicular to the face grooves.

I have multiple sets with shafts of different weights and tip profiles that
have lie angles which can vary 1.5* from set to set. Shaft droop in some of my
softer tip profile shafts makes it necessary to be bent more upright.

Builds I do for the better more discerning golfers will get the final range
dry eraser check, and lie adjustments prior to release into the wild.

Edited by KRW59, 17 June 2018 - 08:25 AM.

Cobra King F8 10.5* / Fuji Diamond Speeder 5-SR
TEE EX10 Beta 16.5* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 6-S
TEE EX10 19* / Attas 4U 7-S
TEE EX9 22* / Attas 4U 7-X
TEE EX9 25* / Attas 4U 95-X

Cobra Forged Tec Black / 28* 6 iron thru 49.5* GW / 4.5* gapping
Recoil 780 Es Smac wrap F3 / GW shaft internally weighted to 95 grams

King Black Wedges / 54* versatile/ Recoil 95 F3 shaft weighted to 110 grams
58* versatile / Recoil 110 F4 shaft weighted to 125 grams ( heat shrink tube )

Piretti Savona 2 Elite ● Murdered ● or 1/1 GSS High Toe Potenza II

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#30 Shanks2424

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 08:01 PM

View PostTitleist_242, on 15 June 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

View PostShanks2424, on 14 June 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

Forged irons do move. My dad has a old set of Titleist forged blades the tour model. He pulled his five iron out at 190 and it it 220. He took them into the golf shop and  the loft of his 5 iron was the same as his 2 iron. I get my irons adjusted 1-2 times a year. I try and play 2-3 times a month. The more you play the more you need adjusted. My rule of Thumb dont know why i go on this but for every 40 rounds check your irons 1 or two times a year . So if you play 80 rounds in a year you should check them 2-4 times a year is my opinion. Witch reminds me I need to get my Mp29 irons checked.

It's impossible that a 5 iron "moved" 12 degrees stronger from naturally playing and practicing.
I will tend to believe my father over you he had them checked and yes it can happen

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Driver- Titleist 909D3 8.5 Matrix HD7 Stiff
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