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Kinematic Sequencing - 2 Weeks to Improve


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#1 PorscheFan

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:52 AM

The snippets I've read on here about kinematic sequencing (pelvis > thorax > arm > club) has been really enlightening.  I keep tripping upon various threads where little gems pop out around this topic.

glk is all over this... just a great understanding of how this all works

So, I played around with this in my hotel room yesterday.  I had one SuperSpeed golf club with my and my SSR.  It's a lot (for me) to try to coordinate and think about, so I tried to simply have the feelings of starting the downswing with my hips first, and of pulling my left shoulder up at impact and letting the club whip through (vs. trying to maintain arm speed through the strike and 'follow' the club).

There were 7mph jumps in clubhead speed when I synced it correctly, with no greater feeling of effort.  Real, meaningful jumps.  It just wasn't consistent.

There's something there, I'm convinced of it.  To me, this is the main reason why my scrawny golf coach can generate so much clubhead speed where I struggle.  This explains why I can't get the full benefits out of my strength.

Now, what on earth do I do about it?

I'm giving myself the challenge of two weeks to improve in this area.  What drills can I do to improve either individual components of this (e.g. pelvis to thorax), or the whole sequence?


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#2 OakLawnGolfPro

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:47 PM

What’s your current sequence?  I wrote an article about this topic for this site covering this topic as well if you wanna check it out.

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#3 PorscheFan

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 05:56 PM

 OakLawnGolfPro, on 14 June 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

What’s your current sequence?  I wrote an article about this topic for this site covering this topic as well if you wanna check it out.

I'll definitely want to read that.

I haven't been measured on K-vest yet (coming soon), but my feeling was of trying to speed up everything moving into impact, vs. hips, torso, arms.  As a result I tended to 'follow' the ball with my arms and club.

I'm guessing on a chart that would look like three stacked curves that all slow down prior to impact (otherwise I'd end up falling over)

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#4 games

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    Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they are yours.

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:16 PM

Find a bedroom.
They who are enamoured of practice
without knowledge are like the mariner
going to sea without a rudder or compass
and who navigates without a course.

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#5 PorscheFan

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:40 PM

 games, on 14 June 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Find a bedroom.

I've got that kinematic sequence down, bruh.  That one's in the genes.  I'm a +2.

But golf?  That's a different matter.  Can't even do that standing up...


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#6 PorscheFan

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:17 PM

Well, I've found a way to answer this question for myself.

I found a great local resource with TPI training and K-vest capability.

He gave me a full TPI screening, full K-vest analysis and then gave me a prescription (stretches and exercises) to improve my specific deficiencies.

Both the screening and K-vest analysis were incredibly revealing.  I would never have guessed at the results.  Literally the best two and-a-half hours I've spent on my golf game.  Ever.

I'll go through some of my assumptions vs. actual findings from the tests.

Assumption #1 - My hips are inflexible, therefore I can't get my hips through the shot
Conclusion - my hip flexibility is fine, my posterior chain is fine, but I actually have too much hip rotation in the backswing

Assumption #2 - My flat swing and arm drop at the top of the backswing is a mechanics thing that I need to drill to completely eliminate
Conclusion - My shoulder and chest flexibility is really poor.  I simply can't get my hand high or behind enough.  If I try (which requires deliberate stretching in the backswing) I just can't hold it and the arms drop eventually.  I literally can't hit the positions my instructor wants me to in the backswing without coming out of my posture, which explains why a longer backswing for me causes a massive drop in ball striking and no real increase in distance.

Assumption #3 - My arms dominate the downswing due to a lack of hip and trunk rotation
Conclusion - my peak hip speed is just below PGA Tour range, same for my arms.  My trunk rotation and peak speed, however, are ABOVE the PGA Tour ranges.  It's so fast and so dominant that my hips simply can't compete, and due to the lack of shoulder/arm flexibility my arms basically end up along for the ride.

There are specific inconsistencies in terms of flexibility and timing that I can now work on.  I have a metrics-based diagnosis and a specific plan to improve in my areas of weakness.  I am overjoyed.

I was so excited I went to the range before I got home.  Just the knowledge that my arms can only go back so far and that my trunk was dominating my hips led to the best ball striking I've experienced in as long as I can remember.

Played 9 holes this evening with Game Golf Live, barely felt like I was hitting the ball, and it was a different game.  My chipping and putting was shocking, but my average drives (including landing in rough) went from about 220 yards to 249.  I hit wedges into the majority of par 4 and par 5 greens vs. 6 to 9 iron.

One three putt.  Two flubbed chips from really stinky lies... Distances were off because my sequencing was improving... Yet I still shot 43.  So much work to do, but this is already a different game.

Edited by PorscheFan, 16 June 2018 - 09:31 PM.


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#7 hbgpagolfpro

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:46 PM

 PorscheFan, on 14 June 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

The snippets I've read on here about kinematic sequencing (pelvis > thorax > arm > club) has been really enlightening.  I keep tripping upon various threads where little gems pop out around this topic.

glk is all over this... just a great understanding of how this all works

So, I played around with this in my hotel room yesterday.  I had one SuperSpeed golf club with my and my SSR.  It's a lot (for me) to try to coordinate and think about, so I tried to simply have the feelings of starting the downswing with my hips first, and of pulling my left shoulder up at impact and letting the club whip through (vs. trying to maintain arm speed through the strike and 'follow' the club).

There were 7mph jumps in clubhead speed when I synced it correctly, with no greater feeling of effort.  Real, meaningful jumps.  It just wasn't consistent.

There's something there, I'm convinced of it.  To me, this is the main reason why my scrawny golf coach can generate so much clubhead speed where I struggle.  This explains why I can't get the full benefits out of my strength.

Now, what on earth do I do about it?

I'm giving myself the challenge of two weeks to improve in this area.  What drills can I do to improve either individual components of this (e.g. pelvis to thorax), or the whole sequence?

Break it down into small steps, without a golf club in your hand.  Then learn how to piece it all together slowly, again without a golf club in your hand.  you'll have to rep it hundreds of times before it will become ingrained.  Once you think you have it, then just work on it with half swings with a wedge at half speed.  Build from there.  It's a process.  The more athletic ability you have, the easier it will be come.  Do other somewhat similar movements as well, such as throwing a baseball.  Wind and unwind.

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#8 PorscheFan

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:14 PM

 hbgpagolfpro, on 16 June 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

Break it down into small steps, without a golf club in your hand.  Then learn how to piece it all together slowly, again without a golf club in your hand.  you'll have to rep it hundreds of times before it will become ingrained.  Once you think you have it, then just work on it with half swings with a wedge at half speed.  Build from there.  It's a process.  The more athletic ability you have, the easier it will be come.  Do other somewhat similar movements as well, such as throwing a baseball.  Wind and unwind.

Thanks.  This makes complete sense.  The movements are so fast that I have little awareness of what I'm doing at full swing speed.  This is what I'll do.

There's so much to improve simply in terms of sequencing that even 20% improvement would yield great dividends.  Add in the specific stretches for mobility and my optimism is sky high.

I can't begin to explain how lazily I was swinging the driver this afternooon.  What felt like half swings with no thought other than 'let the hips fire first'.  I had 260 yard drives where - if you had've hit pause immediately after the strike and asked me what I'd just done - I'd have truthfully answered "weak whiffy half-strike.  Contact was decent but it'll probably carry 190 and roll out at 210".  Just weirdness.

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#9 lukerguy

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Posted Yesterday, 05:37 PM

I was able to figure this out for playing quarterback, but have a harder time while golfing.

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#10 PorscheFan

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Posted Yesterday, 06:39 PM

 lukerguy, on 17 June 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was able to figure this out for playing quarterback, but have a harder time while golfing.

I guess itís such a quick movement, plus youíre swinging an object that you never let go of.  I definitely find it much easier to comprehend than to put into action.

Fatherís Day Bonus - I played 9 holes today on a course Iíve never played with very fast greens.  The heat got the better of me, but I still shot 42, which is my lowest ever.  I was two over thru 6.

Edited by PorscheFan, Yesterday, 06:40 PM.


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#11 glk

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Posted Today, 08:39 PM

Dan has good advice concerning tpi and golf instruction.    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1290510-tpi-evaluation-plus-k-vest/

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#12 PorscheFan

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Posted Today, 09:17 PM

View Postglk, on 18 June 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

Dan has good advice concerning tpi and golf instruction.    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1290510-tpi-evaluation-plus-k-vest/

Thanks.  I've learned a lot from his posts, but I simply don't agree with his skepticism on this particular topic.  I simply haven't done anything better for my game.  I completely understand that it tells you the WHAT, not the entire WHY, but it's not that simple IMHO.

It explained exactly WHY I wasn't getting my hips through.  Without even having the chance to work on sequencing the very knowledge allowed me to delay my trunk rotation a little.  That alone and the knowledge from my TPI screening got me the following:

> 248.8 yards off the tee with less effort than my 220-230 yards prior
> Ball striking improved immediately, because A) my swing became more relaxed and in sequence, B) I stopped trying to make such a large hip rotation on the way back, C) I stopped trying to get the perfect hand position in my backswing until my flexibility allows me to do it naturally, and D) my low point moved forward a full three inches (from behind the ball to in front) even though traditional drills to improve this has brought me no gains in this area

I work with data and it certainly is no more useful that the person interpreting it.  It's so true.  However, with the right analysis and prescriptions based on that data, very cool things can happen.

Edited by PorscheFan, Today, 09:18 PM.


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