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OK , How do you start down ?


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#1 mfm22

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:16 PM

This has been a Stumbling block for me over the last 10 years :beruo: .  Typical of a lot of Golf instruction there are  a few schools of thought .

I'm realizing that what is taught ,  / mentioned , /  " felt" / . seen on video  etc...  all are subject to interpretation !  

For years it was my belief that " bumping " lateral would be the start from top move  .Well that just never seemed right  nor worked for me .
My arms were usually  trailing just enough to allow less than good shots .  With longer clubs & Driver it was Death !

Then I considered other possibilities  like the Arms starting down first & body reacting . Had some success but shots were not as solid  and lower body became  
Dormant [ stuck in cement ]   . OTT move slowly crept back into my repertoire  

Currently  I've been trying to use the ground more and start down [ when possible ] feeling some pressure into my Right leg - foot  [ not the left ]
Seems to be working better and actually is counter intuitive  in that my weight goes into left side without as much conscious effort.

This works better when I'm less mechanical [ I can be a robot !] and let the swing go more fluid and not a 2 part deal [ backswing - downswing ]
I  imagine it's somewhat of a small squat move .  Makes sense , in order to post Up  you need to go down some first ?

It's new to me and wondering if it's logical path to continue down ...


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#2 Hubijerk

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:35 PM

So I have found the best influences, at least on this site anyway to be Monte and Waldron.  Generic Instruction generally hammers you over the head with lower body 1st over and over again to the point that I think people end up getting their arms stuck behind the body and pivot.  This leads so many to what has been called early extension and/or over the top saving moves.

I personally try to drill what sometimes feels like arms 1st though it really isn't.  If you imagine someone handing you an axe and asking you to take a swing at a tree you wouldn't over think it and start swinging you're hips and really trying to shift you're weight and sling you're arms... You just swing the damn thing and you're body reacts and pivots accordingly.

The body can rotate and cover more degrees faster than the arms can, so if you deliberately hold off you're arms while shifting and starting the lower body turn (which also starts the torso and shoulders turning) you're arms can never catch up.

When I'm striking it the best I feel like I'm sending my arms 1st and then the right shoulder.. It's easy to imagine you're arms lagging behind you're body and shoulder turn but try to imagine you're arms speeding past you're body and shoulder turn... It really can't, you're body can always go faster.

I will focus on different things at different times, sometimes a flattening move at the top while lowering the left shoulder, keeping head back, etc.. But I try to feel like my arms drive the swing otherwise I start to get stuck.

When I see extra moves or a focus on lower body moves like the squat I feel like that gives you a bit more time for the arms to come down which effectively slows down the body firing a bit.

Edited by Hubijerk, 13 June 2018 - 12:36 PM.

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#3 Coop_Scoop12

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:42 PM

First, I think you have realized that golf is so much of a feel based game. What one person feels to achieve a result may be entirely different to other individual. From my experiences here are a couple of "feels" that I explain to player working on downswing sequencing.

1) Make a slow swing and stop at the top. Start with your left hip bumping while your hips are still closed. I say bump out out first base (feeling the pressure shift to your left heel). This allows the arms to fall right into position and just allows you to open the hips and let the club follow/release through impact.

2) When making a full swing one feel is to feel this left hip bump occur before the back swing is complete. It takes time for our muscles to receive conscious input signals from our brain. Thus, feel as if you are making this when your left arm is about 10 o'clock from a face on view.

Hope this helps.

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#4 glk

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:52 PM

https://www.instagra...y=shaunwebbgolf

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#5 Quick Bucket

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:06 PM

The same way you started up, down and easy.


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#6 fatzboys

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:29 PM

Try your core.....Starting back and starting down....

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#7 MPStrat

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:40 PM

For me it depends on the day. If my miss is over hooking I feel like the
downswing starts with my left knee. If my miss is a pull or a cut I feel like clubhead is “falling down a wall” behind me. In reality, hopefully I’m doing both to some degree in all swings but those thoughts give a little extra boost to help get the path more neutral.

Like mine, most t answers you will find online are feels different players use for their specific faults. There is also a lot of info out there on what actually happens in good swings and that could definitely help get you headed in the right direction but as far as playing real golf I like something fairly simple on the course.


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#8 lukerguy

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:59 PM

For me, as long as I keep the trail arm forearm up towards the sky- externally rotated- (or at least feel that way), I can always make a good downswing.

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#9 WILDTHING

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:58 PM

Have you tried just swinging something really heavy in perpetuity to a target, in balance and without strain?  If you just let it happen, your body will get out of the way (while also providing a stable platform) to facilitate the swinging of your arm/weight to match your intent. Your downswing will just happen without any preconceived notion of  the optimal 'what'  needs to happen.

Check out Shawn Clements video for a bit more enlightenment on how to swing naturally and free up your degrees of freedom , head/body/legs bobbing up and down , no rules about the golf swing , just let go!


Edited by WILDTHING, 13 June 2018 - 07:59 PM.


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#10 oikos1

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:13 PM

Yikes!  Swing wrecker of a thread.


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#11 jut111

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:12 AM

I don't think there is a really a one size fits all answer here.  How YOU need to start down is going to depend heavily on where you are at the top.  For example if you have a big lateral sway off the ball, you better recenter yourself pronto if you have any chance.

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#12 BottleCap

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

I throw the club down with my right arm
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#13 mfm22

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:51 AM

"I don't think there is a really a one size fits all answer here.  How YOU need to start down is going to depend heavily on where you are at the top.  For example if you have a big lateral sway off the ball, you better recenter yourself pronto if you have any chance"

No doubt !  This is true of most aspects of the golf swing .  Everyone has their own things to deal with - body type / size , Age , Health issues  & mind set   add to that the many different teaching styles , swing patterns , Methods  etc.  

Good instructors [ like many we see on Golfwrx] are smart enough to deal with individuals and the specific needs of each person . Granted they find many common issues but they still address them with specific " language' per golfer .  This is what makes an instructor superior - the ability to not just Diagnose an issue but how to properly communicate how to correct or modify  things .

I find for my own Swing the Transition is the critical point and I will figure out what works best for me .  Still love to learn what others find works for them .

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#14 juststeve

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:04 AM

I switch responsibility for the club from my hands to my arms and swing he club forward with both arms.  My body responds.

Steve

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#15 mfm22

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

GLK - the instagram link is great - plenty of compression going on - but it's  a subtle move -   Just noticed the text - surf , shift , glide --- I seem to remember something from Tahahta  golf using those terms

WILDTHING- I always felt Shawn Clements was very good [at communicating the correct mechanics.] but I had trouble watching his motion  - very up - down -  Ironically  this is what I'm working on presently

Edited by mfm22, 14 June 2018 - 09:30 AM.


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#16 WILDTHING

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:04 AM

 mfm22, on 14 June 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

GLK - the instagram link is great - plenty of compression going on - but it's  a subtle move -   Just noticed the text - surf , shift , glide --- I seem to remember something from Tahahta  golf using those terms

WILDTHING- I always felt Shawn Clements was very good [at communicating the correct mechanics.] but I had trouble watching his motion  - very up - down -  Ironically  this is what I'm working on presently

I think SC tries to word his concepts without using mechanics (as much as he possibly can). For example , in more recent videos  he mentions 'getting the ground' , rather than do this or that move with a specific part of the body. He is basically using motor learning methods with  'external cues'  (outcome thoughts ) that have been proved scientifically to work better than 'internal cues'  (self body parts) for golf instruction. He has also repeatedly stated in his videos that if you default for any moment on an internal cue (ie. body part or position) during the swing it will 'short circuit' your kinetic sequence.



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#17 mfm22

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:13 AM

Right side of Brain   / Left side     ... makes sense , you bring in the left side mechanics / analytical   delays the  Right side -   feel  ... I guess ?  not up with Neuro science ..
I'm sure others will help out with this Theory , but I can see some validity to this

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#18 vwoody

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:51 PM

Separate left shoulder from chin.

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#19 Hilts1969

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:01 PM

 juststeve, on 14 June 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

I switch responsibility for the club from my hands to my arms and swing he club forward with both arms.  My body responds.

Steve

You could have mentioned that earlier

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#20 Nard_S

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:10 PM

Right now?..........Throw my left side down and target bound, while throwing my hands out, down and away from body..........might be something different in a month but this month,  it works pretty good.


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