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The primary anti-roll back the ball argument


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#91 DFS PFD

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.

Edited by DFS PFD, 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM.


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#92 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 13 June 2018 - 03:51 PM.


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#93 Sean2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:52 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

Yeah, but if the ball is rolled back, and golfers move up a set of tees, most will probably still be too far back. :-)
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#94 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostSean2, on 13 June 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

Yeah, but if the ball is rolled back, and golfers move up a set of tees, most will probably still be too far back. :-)
Right but the net effect will probably be zero.  At least equipment manufactures will have to find some other new shinny lure other than distance.  If you go by equipment marketing, every year provides more distance, so really if that were true the average drive should be about 600 yards by now :)

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#95 Sean2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 13 June 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

Yeah, but if the ball is rolled back, and golfers move up a set of tees, most will probably still be too far back. :-)
Right but the net effect will probably be zero.  At least equipment manufactures will have to find some other new shinny lure other than distance.  If you go by equipment marketing, every year provides more distance, so really if that were true the average drive should be about 600 yards by now :)

Well, some are now making 5-irons with 21º of loft and PW's with 41º...so yeah, you will hit the ball farther. :-)

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#96 JaNelson38

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

For me, the argument against the ball rollback is simple:  golf is still a wedge and putter game.  At any level.

Even the bombers dont win on Tour unless they putt well and their short games are on point.

Big hitters come and go on the PGA Tour.  The guys with the good putters and good short games always seem to stick around.  This isnt a coincidence.

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#97 Ty_Webb

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:44 PM

View Postclevited, on 13 June 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

View Postex0dus, on 13 June 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Rick Shiels did a video comparing todays Prov1 to a wound ball from the 90s. The new ball carried 11 yards farther with the driver, impressive but hardly a game changer.

I have seen that video too, and if you take a look at his numbers and plug them into flightscope optimizer, they are only 6 yards different with the driver.  I am not sure how his GCquad got 11 yards with only 3 mph difference in ball speed and nearly every other launch perameter the same.  Basically, I think real life the distances would have been even closer just from my experience with many launch monitors and their algorithm differences.

All and all, 11 yards isn't much, 6 yards is even less difference.  The ball change from balata to prov is likely almost nil.

I thought the issue with the modern ball is it goes much straighter. That means pros can go at it harder without worrying about losing too much control. That’s where the distance gain comes from. It doesn’t surprise me that launch monitor numbers give only a 6 yard difference. In the real world under tournament conditions that difference could be substantially higher.
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#98 rangersgoalie

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:45 PM

View PostNevinW, on 13 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand one of the primary argument that is used against the idea of rolling back the ball:  That it hurts the recreational player who doesn't hit the ball far enough as it is. My question is:  Let's say they made the golf ball go 5% shorter across the board.  Why couldn't everyone play 6500 yard courses rather than 6900 yards.  Nothing else would change.  Everyone moves up a set of tees and the very back tees are eliminated.  Shorter golf courses means quicker rounds, less fertilizer and expenses.  Instead of hitting a 7 iron 160, one would hit it 152.   How would this be catastrophic to the amateur game?

Well, I'm a 56 year old golf pro,mane I've never seen anyone show up for a lesson happy to hit it shorter  :)

Not to mention, haven't seen a huge number play the correct tees as of now!!

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#99 rangersgoalie

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:48 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA):  Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

{Sigh.}  Do you realize, that that "simple fix" is just a great big negative, for the quality of golf in the service of simply holding down scoring?  I mean, the USGA has done it many times before.  And they'd argue that they are trying to identify the best golfers and that narrowing fairways and growing rough puts an emphasis on accuracy and nerves and serves as a bit of a brake on distance as players try to hit narrowed fairways for fear of punitive rough.

But that's old thinking, in my view.  The new generation of history-minded golf course architects want to return to width; to give players options on the best lines and re-introduce course management and strategy.  To open up as many lines, angles and choices as possible; to make hazards more strategic and less punitive.

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#100 rangersgoalie

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:51 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

So, want tour pros and manufactures to change everything....and make golf customers move up, or build shorter tees.....
As in many fixes, create more problems with a fix.........

Devils advocate btw.....I understand some kind of roll back, but some who do think it's simple, and won't have any negative impacts


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#101 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

View Postbigred90gt, on 13 June 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:


With all due respect, I don't think that's what we were discussing.  I think (hope) we were discussing the type of player that we all know who doesn't hit it far enough to hit a lot of GIRs.  My mother has won her club championship three years in a row, and I don't think I've ever seen her hit it over 200 yards.  One-putt pars for days.  I think the comments were more about the fact that those players (and, indeed, no player) has a "right" to hit a GIR.  My view is that we shouldn't make it harder for those, or any, amateur golfers.

If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?

Definitely not.  I've only said that hitting GIRs isn't a right for all players, but that players who struggle to hit GIRs shouldn't be further hindered in their attempts to do so by the USGA.  I think we are all on the same side.
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#102 DFS PFD

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

View Postrangersgoalie, on 13 June 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

So, want tour pros and manufactures to change everything....and make golf customers move up, or build shorter tees.....
As in many fixes, create more problems with a fix.........

Devils advocate btw.....I understand some kind of roll back, but some who do think it's simple, and won't have any negative impacts
I don't think there's anything simple about it. I personally wouldn't look forward to it, at all, but I do think it will become necessary with water shortages and real-estate prices for golf to remain somewhat affordable in the future.

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#103 North Texas

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Edited by North Texas, 13 June 2018 - 05:45 PM.


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#104 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.
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#105 gvogel

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:58 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quote

Most guys are bigger, stronger and all have new methods of training to optimize distance that simply wasn't around 20 years ago.

As we have discussed more times than I can recount, I am not sure that I accept the notion that Fred Couples' or Tiger Woods' current length, compared to 20 years ago, has anything to do with physical fitness.

But even if it were, I'd argue strongly that since nobody would dream of regulating fitness, the thing to do is to regulate one of the most inconsequential things which is the golf ball.

If you think I am saying that the golf ball has to take the blame for (presumed) improved athleticism, you have it exactly right.  That is not punishing any or all of the athletes.  It is protecting the golf course.
The number of tour players with swing speeds of >120 doubled from 2007 to 2017. Average PGA tour club head speed increased by 9mph from 1980 to 2016...this data can't be overlooked when it comes to distance increases.
Lovely statistic.  

In 1980, drivers were wood head on a steel shaft.  They were a lot heavier, and driver length was typically 43".  Now you have graphite and titanium, so clubs are lighter, and can be played at 45-1/2".  I would assume anyone would gain club head speed changing from wood/steel to titanium/graphite.

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#106 North Texas

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:59 PM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.

Agree on the rollback. Don't see it happening. Not even 5%.

But we'll disagree on Jack. He's earned and deserves continued respect. Whether you agree with him or not. And I don't always agree with him.

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#107 clevited

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

View Postgvogel, on 13 June 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quote

Most guys are bigger, stronger and all have new methods of training to optimize distance that simply wasn't around 20 years ago.

As we have discussed more times than I can recount, I am not sure that I accept the notion that Fred Couples' or Tiger Woods' current length, compared to 20 years ago, has anything to do with physical fitness.

But even if it were, I'd argue strongly that since nobody would dream of regulating fitness, the thing to do is to regulate one of the most inconsequential things which is the golf ball.

If you think I am saying that the golf ball has to take the blame for (presumed) improved athleticism, you have it exactly right.  That is not punishing any or all of the athletes.  It is protecting the golf course.
The number of tour players with swing speeds of >120 doubled from 2007 to 2017. Average PGA tour club head speed increased by 9mph from 1980 to 2016...this data can't be overlooked when it comes to distance increases.
Lovely statistic.  

In 1980, drivers were wood head on a steel shaft.  They were a lot heavier, and driver length was typically 43".  Now you have graphite and titanium, so clubs are lighter, and can be played at 45-1/2".  I would assume anyone would gain club head speed changing from wood/steel to titanium/graphite.

You would be surprised how length and weight effects speed. I don't think you can make any kind of blanket statement about that without thorough testing.  The effects can be quite counter intuitive as I have discovered over the years.
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#108 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:48 PM

View Postclevited, on 13 June 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

View Postgvogel, on 13 June 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quote

Most guys are bigger, stronger and all have new methods of training to optimize distance that simply wasn't around 20 years ago.

As we have discussed more times than I can recount, I am not sure that I accept the notion that Fred Couples' or Tiger Woods' current length, compared to 20 years ago, has anything to do with physical fitness.

But even if it were, I'd argue strongly that since nobody would dream of regulating fitness, the thing to do is to regulate one of the most inconsequential things which is the golf ball.

If you think I am saying that the golf ball has to take the blame for (presumed) improved athleticism, you have it exactly right.  That is not punishing any or all of the athletes.  It is protecting the golf course.
The number of tour players with swing speeds of >120 doubled from 2007 to 2017. Average PGA tour club head speed increased by 9mph from 1980 to 2016...this data can't be overlooked when it comes to distance increases.
Lovely statistic.  

In 1980, drivers were wood head on a steel shaft.  They were a lot heavier, and driver length was typically 43".  Now you have graphite and titanium, so clubs are lighter, and can be played at 45-1/2".  I would assume anyone would gain club head speed changing from wood/steel to titanium/graphite.

You would be surprised how length and weight effects speed. I don't think you can make any kind of blanket statement about that without thorough testing.  The effects can be quite counter intuitive as I have discovered over the years.
But twice as many guys from 2007 to 2017 have swings speed over 120.
Guys are generally bigger, stronger and better trained. Also technology has been used to optimize, loft, launch angle, shaft flex, kick points, spin rate etc.

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 13 June 2018 - 06:51 PM.


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#109 tobiasjd

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:09 AM

I still say it all drills back to dispersion.  As the misses get less severe, the more likely you are to push your speed.  If anything over 80% puts you OB half the time, why bother with all the hours in the gym, when you can spend that time shot shaping.

The ball is a big part of it but it’s not distance.  They just don’t spin.  It’s insane the amount of speed you can put thru impact and still have the ball react with a moderate amount of spin.  There’s just no way you could pull that off “back in the day”.  


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#110 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:59 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.

Agree on the rollback. Don't see it happening. Not even 5%.

But we'll disagree on Jack. He's earned and deserves continued respect. Whether you agree with him or not. And I don't always agree with him.

Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.

Driver: 9.5*
3W: 15*
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Irons: 4-PW
Wedges: 50*, 54*, 58*
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#111 bigred90gt

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:30 AM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

"If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?"

I didn't even mention the rollback. Take a moment to read what you're replying to instead of automatically inserting 20% in every response.
Sure he can, just move up a set of tees... Courses would probably build more Forward tees if needed. Most people play too far back anyway. (disclaimer - I oppose a rollback of the ball unless it's Pro tours only)

How many courses do you think have the cash flow laying around to just up and build 18 new tee boxes at the drop of a hat? Iím not talking about big money private clubs, Iím talking about your average daily fee course that already struggles to even financially provide the Super with the tools and chemicals to even keep the course in good shape. It isnít feasible to expect courses to all build new tees because someone thinks the proís and elite guys hit the ball too far.

21

#112 North Texas

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:37 AM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:59 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.

Agree on the rollback. Don't see it happening. Not even 5%.

But we'll disagree on Jack. He's earned and deserves continued respect. Whether you agree with him or not. And I don't always agree with him.

Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.

Geez, not exactly open-minded, are you?

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#113 Nard_S

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:44 AM

View Posttobiasjd, on 14 June 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

I still say it all drills back to dispersion.  As the misses get less severe, the more likely you are to push your speed.  If anything over 80% puts you OB half the time, why bother with all the hours in the gym, when you can spend that time shot shaping.

The ball is a big part of it but it’s not distance.  They just don’t spin.  It’s insane the amount of speed you can put thru impact and still have the ball react with a moderate amount of spin.  There’s just no way you could pull that off “back in the day”.  

That is the discussion that needs to be made. Distance is not the issue on the Tour it is the rail like quality of ball flight that supplanted old ball characteristics. It's not all gain, there has been a loss too. Progress brings on new"good" but it can destroy old "good" too. Something to be said for shot making and spin control, two things that have been mitigated to some extent with modern tech. Thick rough and crusty greens do not make up for the hazard of wind and spin.

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#114 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:45 AM

View PostNorth Texas, on 14 June 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:



Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.

Geez, not exactly open-minded, are you?

What does that have to do with anything?
I don't have to like or respect Jack Nicklaus.
Driver: 9.5*
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Irons: 4-PW
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Putter:  Putter

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#115 carrier street

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA):  Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

This times a thousand. This is an issue with the longest 100 of the top 300 players on the planet. Take some run out of the fairways. Grow the rough a bit. Not crazy, but enough to make it a penalty that needs to be avoided. I would add to this make bunkers an actual hazard again. Make it so there is a better chance of the ball sitting down in a bit.

I have 14 clubs from the same OEM
and I'm feeling self-conscious
about it.

25

#116 15th Club

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:03 AM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:59 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.

Agree on the rollback. Don't see it happening. Not even 5%.

But we'll disagree on Jack. He's earned and deserves continued respect. Whether you agree with him or not. And I don't always agree with him.

Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.



Lulz.  The GolfWRX membership distinguishing itself once again.

26

#117 North Butte

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:06 AM

What kind of real golfers isnít a Nicklaus fan and doesnít own any of Shackís books

Next thing you know Ash will tell us he pays retail for ProV1ís. Oh the humanity!
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#118 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:15 AM

View Post15th Club, on 14 June 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:59 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Amazing that people really think that there would ever be a 20-25% rollback! NOT HAPPENING!

And this is coming from someone who, prior to reading all the different threads on this site about this, thought the USGA let both the ball and the driver size get away from them. And I have read absolutely nothing in all these threads that has changed my mind.

I really believe they are looking at and considering addressing the "problem" in a way that most of us are NOT thinking about and that will surprise a lot of people. But what that is, I don't know.

Agreed.  But I might add that there is no rollback of the ball coming, no matter what Jack Nicklaus says from his Lay-Z-Boy.  There comes a time to put even the best cows out to pasture.  He's been a fine steward.  Time to graze.

Agree on the rollback. Don't see it happening. Not even 5%.

But we'll disagree on Jack. He's earned and deserves continued respect. Whether you agree with him or not. And I don't always agree with him.

Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.



Lulz.  The GolfWRX membership distinguishing itself once again.

Care to elaborate on why you feel entitled to form my opinions?
Driver: 9.5*
3W: 15*
5W: 19*-ish?
Irons: 4-PW
Wedges: 50*, 54*, 58*
Putter:  Putter

28

#119 15th Club

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:16 AM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

...
...
...
...

Care to elaborate on why you feel entitled to form my opinions?


No.

29

#120 clevited

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:18 AM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 14 June 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 14 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Agree to disagree.  I've disliked him from the first time I laid eyes on him, and I will never respect him.

Geez, not exactly open-minded, are you?

What does that have to do with anything?
I don't have to like or respect Jack Nicklaus.

For the record, I don't care for Jack either.  Or Gary Player.  Mostly because of their ramblings about the BALL or this or that needs to change.  Lost any respect I may have once had for them.

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