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The primary anti-roll back the ball argument


254 replies to this topic

#61 MrJones

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:42 PM

View PostNevinW, on 13 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand one of the primary argument that is used against the idea of rolling back the ball:  That it hurts the recreational player who doesn't hit the ball far enough as it is. My question is:  Let's say they made the golf ball go 5% shorter across the board.  Why couldn't everyone play 6500 yard courses rather than 6900 yards.  Nothing else would change.  Everyone moves up a set of tees and the very back tees are eliminated.  Shorter golf courses means quicker rounds, less fertilizer and expenses.  Instead of hitting a 7 iron 160, one would hit it 152.   How would this be catastrophic to the amateur game?

Putt-putt courses! Short club in the bag is all you need. Takes up less precious land, cuts severely down on the up keep costs, everyone plays the same ball, just different colors. Why wouldn't people want to play a super short course like this?


Has anyone seen the new driver commercial where they're advertising less distance and it makes the game easier and faster?

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#62 wildcatden

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

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#63 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:05 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quote

Most guys are bigger, stronger and all have new methods of training to optimize distance that simply wasn't around 20 years ago.


As we have discussed more times than I can recount, I am not sure that I accept the notion that Fred Couples' or Tiger Woods' current length, compared to 20 years ago, has anything to do with physical fitness.

But even if it were, I'd argue strongly that since nobody would dream of regulating fitness, the thing to do is to regulate one of the most inconsequential things which is the golf ball.

If you think I am saying that the golf ball has to take the blame for (presumed) improved athleticism, you have it exactly right.  That is not punishing any or all of the athletes.  It is protecting the golf course.
The number of tour players with swing speeds of >120 doubled from 2007 to 2017. Average PGA tour club head speed increased by 9mph from 1980 to 2016...this data can't be overlooked when it comes to distance increases.

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 13 June 2018 - 02:10 PM.


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#64 MrJones

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.
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#65 wildcatden

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!


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#66 Shilgy

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:16 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 13 June 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 13 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quote

Most guys are bigger, stronger and all have new methods of training to optimize distance that simply wasn't around 20 years ago.

As we have discussed more times than I can recount, I am not sure that I accept the notion that Fred Couples' or Tiger Woods' current length, compared to 20 years ago, has anything to do with physical fitness.

But even if it were, I'd argue strongly that since nobody would dream of regulating fitness, the thing to do is to regulate one of the most inconsequential things which is the golf ball.

If you think I am saying that the golf ball has to take the blame for (presumed) improved athleticism, you have it exactly right.  That is not punishing any or all of the athletes.  It is protecting the golf course.
The number of tour players with swing speeds of >120 doubled from 2007 to 2017. Average PGA tour club head speed increased by 9mph from 1980 to 2016...this data can't be overlooked when it comes to distance increases.
Which is the real reason for the average distance increase. Yes... you are correct. There are many more great young...AND LONG...players than there were in the past. It is not that from 2007 to 2017 a Jum Furyk gained 10 mph clubhead speed. It is more that the short hitters are gone and are being replaced with longer hitters.
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#67 MrJones

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:17 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!

Heck a 4-some could share one bag!
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#68 FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:18 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

Someone has already responded but this is a terrible argument. Monty tried to justify it with tennis saying "Federer doesn't get to tell Nadal what ball they should play with so why should Spieth get to play a different ball than DJ?"

Because they don't use the same ball! Dustin doesn't have to hit Spieth's ball whereas Federer and Nadal do.

Federer doesn't have to use Nadal's racquet which is why he gets they each get to use their own one which is best for them.

Edited by FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts, 13 June 2018 - 02:20 PM.


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#69 wildcatden

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:19 PM

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!

Heck a 4-some could share one bag!

And with the cost of manufacturing balls and clubs reduced greatly because we all play the same ones, this would make the game more cost effective for many people. The game could grow and multiply like never before.

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#70 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.

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#71 MrJones

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:28 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!

Heck a 4-some could share one bag!

And with the cost of manufacturing balls and clubs reduced greatly because we all play the same ones, this would make the game more cost effective for many people. The game could grow and multiply like never before.

Do we make everything regular flex or what? Long irons or hybrids? Blade or mallet?
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#72 Sean2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:28 PM

View PostShilgy, on 13 June 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 13 June 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Too much ego in this game. Most golfers will refuse to move up a tee box or two.
We had an issue at my club that backs this up. The gold tees play a bit over 6300 yards and most of the 65+ set will play those tees.  Problem is a few of the holes they could not reach in regulation. So a few brilliant minds wanted those tees moved up.  My reply to them was when the time comes I will move up to the gold tees. When they are too long I will move up to the gold black combo and then to the black when the time comes for that.  We have so many combo course ratings at our club it is crazy.  
  That said a rollback is crazy.  20% would make the typical 6600 yard playing amateur need to play the course at 5280.  Where do you go then when your distance wanes? The tees do not go much shorter than that on any old courses.  Even if it only affects the amateur 10% he now needs to play the course under 6k yards.  We did not need to play that short in the persimmon balata days.

http://offcourse.co/...nch-golf-course

And, don't forget the women. There would no longer be tees that they could play from.

ps: the other day a friend and I were behind a foursome of guys our age...60s...and they played from the back tees. With the exception of the par 3's they averaged about 7 shots each to get to the green. For example, on one hole one guy was playing his third shot and he was only 100 yards in front of the tee box. On another a guy was playing his 5th and he still had 150 yards to the pin. Fortunately they were riding and we were walking...we just walked extra slow. :-) I don't think any of them broke 120. Fortunately it was a wide open course with no real hazards. On my home course those gents would have lost beaucoup golf balls.
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#73 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!

Heck a 4-some could share one bag!

And with the cost of manufacturing balls and clubs reduced greatly because we all play the same ones, this would make the game more cost effective for many people. The game could grow and multiply like never before.


Love it.  "Randy, you can't get there with a 6 iron from the left FW bunker, I'm taking it over to the right cack for a punch out.  Just hit our 5 iron.  What?  You replaced it with a hybrid?  WTF, man?"


Edited by Ashley Schaeffer, 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM.

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#74 DFS PFD

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

Edited by DFS PFD, 13 June 2018 - 02:33 PM.


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#75 wildcatden

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:34 PM

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

View PostMrJones, on 13 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:


All of the sports you named share the equipment used to play during the game. By your reasoning all golfers should have the exact same clubs as well shouldn't they?

Plus, you're really late coming up with this idea. I mean a LOT of golf has been played as it stands in relation to the ball today.

I like where you are going. Same clubs too!!

Heck a 4-some could share one bag!

And with the cost of manufacturing balls and clubs reduced greatly because we all play the same ones, this would make the game more cost effective for many people. The game could grow and multiply like never before.

Do we make everything regular flex or what? Long irons or hybrids? Blade or mallet?

Tiger decides.


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#76 wcbjr

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:38 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

This I could be ok with.

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#77 wcbjr

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:39 PM

View PostSean2, on 13 June 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

And, don't forget the women. There would no longer be tees that they could play from.

Just put the men's flags on the back of the green and the women's up front.

/s

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#78 bigred90gt

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:43 PM

View PostNevinW, on 13 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand one of the primary argument that is used against the idea of rolling back the ball:  That it hurts the recreational player who doesn't hit the ball far enough as it is. My question is:  Let's say they made the golf ball go 5% shorter across the board.  Why couldn't everyone play 6500 yard courses rather than 6900 yards.  Nothing else would change.  Everyone moves up a set of tees and the very back tees are eliminated.  Shorter golf courses means quicker rounds, less fertilizer and expenses.  Instead of hitting a 7 iron 160, one would hit it 152.   How would this be catastrophic to the amateur game?

Obviously, you either didnt read the 73 page thread, or just overlooked a lot of the information in it. A 5% reduction in performance accomplishes nothing that the pro roll back crowd wants, and would be a monumental waste of time and energy. Move that number to closer to  20%, at a minimum, and think about that statement again. The average driving distance for recreational golfers is around 210 yards. If they're hitting driver 210 yards, I doubt they're hitting 7 iron 160. But even so, let's work at 210 yards - 20% - 168 yards with a driver. Now, think about your home course, and think about hitting a 168 yard drive on every hole with a driver. If 168 is the longest club in your bag, I'm going to guess 3 wood wouldnt go any further than about 150, 3i maybe 135, and go down 7-10 yards from there. Now, how will your course be playable for those lengths? Even at 6500, hell even 6000 yards?

I'd say take the time to read the other long and tedious thread, and then reevaluate the need to even make this one.

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#79 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

My favorite is when this “you’ve got to be able to reach in regulation” argument is combined with the “maintain the strategic intent of golden age courses” argument...

The Golden Age courses were generally designed with bogey as the target score...

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#80 DFS PFD

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:50 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 June 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

My favorite is when this "you've got to be able to reach in regulation" argument is combined with the "maintain the strategic intent of golden age courses" argument...

The Golden Age courses were generally designed with bogey as the target score...
I guess I missed the part where I said,  "maintain the strategic intent of golden age courses". Did you forget to include it in your quote?


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#81 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:53 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 June 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

My favorite is when this "you've got to be able to reach in regulation" argument is combined with the "maintain the strategic intent of golden age courses" argument...

The Golden Age courses were generally designed with bogey as the target score...
I guess I missed the part where I said,  "maintain the strategic intent of golden age courses". Did you forget to include it in your quote?

Not you per se.

Believe it or not, this isn’t the first rollback thread on Golfwrx.

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#82 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:00 PM

I’d like to see extensive testing of clubs made by Old Tom Morris and some gutta balls to establish a standard that we can get back to; then we’d be playing REAL golf!

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#83 bigred90gt

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:12 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

WOW. I've seen a lot of arrogant statements in the roll back discussion, but this has to be up there with the best of them.

You dont DESRVE to even have a chance to possibly hit the green in regulation, deal with it, peasant. lol

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#84 Sean2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:15 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 June 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

I'd like to see extensive testing of clubs made by Old Tom Morris and some gutta balls to establish a standard that we can get back to; then we'd be playing REAL golf!

Don't forget the jackets and ties. :-)
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#85 DFS PFD

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:17 PM

View Postbigred90gt, on 13 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

WOW. I've seen a lot of arrogant statements in the roll back discussion, but this has to be up there with the best of them.

You dont DESRVE to even have a chance to possibly hit the green in regulation, deal with it, peasant. lol
There is no way you're going to tell me every single human on earth is capable of reaching every hole on a golf course in regulation? Should everyone get to hit a home run? Dunk? Peasant? Did I mention social class anywhere?

Edited by DFS PFD, 13 June 2018 - 03:20 PM.


25

#86 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:21 PM

View Postbigred90gt, on 13 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

WOW. I've seen a lot of arrogant statements in the roll back discussion, but this has to be up there with the best of them.

You dont DESRVE to even have a chance to possibly hit the green in regulation, deal with it, peasant. lol

With all due respect, I don't think that's what we were discussing.  I think (hope) we were discussing the type of player that we all know who doesn't hit it far enough to hit a lot of GIRs.  My mother has won her club championship three years in a row, and I don't think I've ever seen her hit it over 200 yards.  One-putt pars for days.  I think the comments were more about the fact that those players (and, indeed, no player) has a "right" to hit a GIR.  My view is that we shouldn't make it harder for those, or any, amateur golfers.
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#87 lowheel

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:28 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 13 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Pro football plays with same spec ball. Baeball does. Basketball does. Soccer does. Have all the PGA Pros play the same ball (spec'd to whatever rollback the PGA wants).

Yeah.... no

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#88 bigred90gt

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:36 PM

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

View Postbigred90gt, on 13 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

WOW. I've seen a lot of arrogant statements in the roll back discussion, but this has to be up there with the best of them.

You dont DESRVE to even have a chance to possibly hit the green in regulation, deal with it, peasant. lol
There is no way you're going to tell me every single human on earth should be capable of reaching every hole on a golf course in regulation? Should everyone get to hit a home run? Dunk? Peasant? Did I mention social class anywhere?
That would be more akin to everyone deserving a birdie or eagle or ace, but nice try. The game of golf has holes of varying lengths with a designated "par". That is the goal score for that hole. The convention behind it is you get two puts to get to that number, therefore being on the green in two strokes less than that number is being on the green in regulation. If the hole is out of reach for a player to be able to hit it in regulation, not necessarily because of a lack of skill but instead because of reduced performance of the equipment, then that hole cannot be played as designed. If this discussion is all about playing courses as the architects intended, then for a subset of golfers, you are doing away with their ability to do just that. And if they have a problem with it, touch luck, you dont deserve it? That is arrogant.

Of course some people wont be able to. Some people cant now. They have accepted that and either work to fix it or just carry on and enjoy the round. But there are those that can, and a rollback would mean they couldn't. They're just supposed to accept that, because a few people think there is some kind of problem with the way 0.01% of people play golf on a handful of golf courses?

Have you ever lost 20% or so distance, literally from one round to the next, and not been able to do anything about it? I have, and I moved up a set of tees, and golf is not as much fun as it used to be, which has resulted in my playing far less than I used to. Now, if that happened across the board, but not because of anything anyone that plays did to themselves or any decision they made (mine was a result of back surgery and repeated back injuries), do you not believe people will quit playing? Sure, the most hardcore fans will keep at it. A lot of casual players would quit. While some may think "great, faster rounds", think about the financial impact on the courses. Less rounds means less revenue, which means either a substantial increase in green fees for the remaining players, or closing the doors. That may sound extreme, but I can tell you, as someone who used to play 5-7 rounds per week and played on an amateur tour, I have almost quit because of it a few times, and now if I play once a week for a month, that's a lot of rounds. It is frustrating, and that is something that is my own fault. If some schmuck that is out of touch with the golfing public and cant see the world beyond the end of his own nose were to make that decision for me, I probably would have quit, and I imagine a lot of people would too.

28

#89 Sean2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:38 PM

Rolling back the ball would also have a major impact on this forum. I mean, who is going to brag about crushing their 7-iron 135 yards? :-)
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#90 bigred90gt

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:39 PM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

View Postbigred90gt, on 13 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 June 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostDFS PFD, on 13 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

That's a great point.  Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.  
Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.
Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

WOW. I've seen a lot of arrogant statements in the roll back discussion, but this has to be up there with the best of them.

You dont DESRVE to even have a chance to possibly hit the green in regulation, deal with it, peasant. lol

With all due respect, I don't think that's what we were discussing.  I think (hope) we were discussing the type of player that we all know who doesn't hit it far enough to hit a lot of GIRs.  My mother has won her club championship three years in a row, and I don't think I've ever seen her hit it over 200 yards.  One-putt pars for days.  I think the comments were more about the fact that those players (and, indeed, no player) has a "right" to hit a GIR.  My view is that we shouldn't make it harder for those, or any, amateur golfers.

If a guy hits a ball 240 yards now and can reach the greens in regulation, a 20% reduction would put him below 200 yards, and he might not be able to. If he hit's it 220, it's even less after a 20% reduction. If he can reach 75% of the greens in regulation now, from the forward tees, now suddenly he cant. Are you going to say that is ok, because he doesnt deserve to hit greens in regulation anyway?


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