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Left Arm Off The Chest


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#1 PJ1120

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:11 AM

Monte's video explains why pinning your left arm to your chest doesn't make any sense....I get that. If the left arm flies off the chest in the downswing what is the right arm doing other than just keeping up and straitening? Is it adding any speed? I think Chuck Quinton at Rotary Golf says the right arm does nothing.


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#2 juststeve

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:16 PM

I was taught to initiate the forward swing by swinging the club forward using both arms.  A result of this is the left arm comes off the chest as Monte suggests and the right are moves forward and down toward impact elbow first, also as Monte suggests.

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#3 johnrobison

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:08 PM

Isn't it more about what's getting most of your conscious attention? I know some pros who consciously straighten the right arm. I know others who consciously accelerate the left. I suppose there are many who consider both equally. Then there are the guys who probably aren't conscious of their arms at all. Perhaps I'm mistaken about it but it's always seemed to me that it's a matter of where your focus is, rather than any of them being correct.

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#4 PJ1120

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:24 PM

Exactly John. I either want to swing the left arm or throw with the right. Hard to be focused on doing both. I play both ways.....some days one works better than the other.

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#5 Atrayn

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:32 PM

View Postjuststeve, on 12 June 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I was taught to initiate the forward swing by swinging the club forward using both arms.  A result of this is the left arm comes off the chest as Monte suggests and the right are moves forward and down toward impact elbow first, also as Monte suggests.

Steve

+1000

Forces a lot of really good stuff to happen that you don't have to think of.
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#6 RichieHunt

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:45 PM

Often times the right arm isn't straightening.  Instead it's folding and causing the left arm to fly off the chest.

I think the issue with the left arm pinning theory is that what golfers that look like they are pinning the left arm to the chest are actually shifting their body's CoM downward and forward and they are not losing their shoulder tilt.  That allows them to not fold the right arm and instead straighten the right arm which keeps the left arm more inside and give that 'pinning against the chest' appearance.








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#7 Gamble Gamble

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:58 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 12 June 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Often times the right arm isn't straightening.  Instead it's folding and causing the left arm to fly off the chest.

I think the issue with the left arm pinning theory is that what golfers that look like they are pinning the left arm to the chest are actually shifting their body's CoM downward and forward and they are not losing their shoulder tilt.  That allows them to not fold the right arm and instead straighten the right arm which keeps the left arm more inside and give that 'pinning against the chest' appearance.

RH

I agree with Rich here.  I had an issue where i would move my CoM towards the target which would either lead to EE and early release.  Feeling like my right elbow is the engine of the swing really did wonders for my swing faults.  Feeling like my right elbow is going towards where my right hip will be forces me to pivot and maintain my front bend through impact.  This also helps me stay in sync when i do it correctly.
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#8 ferrispgm

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:00 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 12 June 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Often times the right arm isn't straightening.  Instead it's folding and causing the left arm to fly off the chest.

I think the issue with the left arm pinning theory is that what golfers that look like they are pinning the left arm to the chest are actually shifting their body's CoM downward and forward and they are not losing their shoulder tilt.  That allows them to not fold the right arm and instead straighten the right arm which keeps the left arm more inside and give that 'pinning against the chest' appearance.








RH


I see what you are saying...but couldn't this be a chicken or the egg type thing?  Fixing the left arm being pinned could alleviate the CoM moving forward or keeping the CoM from moving forward could allow the left arm to get off of the chest.   Could be different for each person.
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#9 RichieHunt

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:26 PM

View Postferrispgm, on 12 June 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

I see what you are saying...but couldn't this be a chicken or the egg type thing?  Fixing the left arm being pinned could alleviate the CoM moving forward or keeping the CoM from moving forward could allow the left arm to get off of the chest.   Could be different for each person.

You want the CoM to go forward and lower.  Pinning the left arm against the chest is an illusion as to what the golfer is really doing.  They are essentially allowing their arm to unfold and as they rotate, the arms start to lag behind the pivot.  That causes the right shoulder to go into external rotation and the shaft pitches.  And as you rotate, eventually the left arm will blast off the chest at the right time.

If you don’t have your CoM lower and move forward, you’ll instead start to fold the arm to deliver the club head to the ball.  That will cause the left arm to come off the chest prematurely.

The trail arm is key.  But IMO, in order to get the trail arm to work properly you need to shift your CoM properly.




RH

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#10 Hstead

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:37 PM

In my experience, so in my swing, I can swing it two totally polar opposites.  I have been down the road of "arms do nothing" and the arms are way more behind my pivot, way more open at impact, and I have to consciously hold my arms back and feel like my right shoulder gets to the ball before the clubhead.  IE GG style.

My "other" swing, is to focus more on my arm speed, and actively and purposefully fire my arms as hard as I can from the top.  The two swings couldn't be more different and it is not just a "feel" thing.  The two swings are driven by different muscles.  They can both work.  Personally, I feel like one of my best attributes are my hands.  I use my hands, hand eye coordination, "feel", what have you better when I am firing my arms.  I have a harder time controlling the face when I try to take the arms out of the swing and use my pivot.

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#11 MadGolfer76

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:49 PM

Isn't a pinned arm partially a result of the lower body firing through too hard and the arms left behind? Wouldn't the lead arm be pinned at that point just from a lack of anywhere else to go?
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#12 ozarkshooter

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:02 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 12 June 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

Isn't a pinned arm partially a result of the lower body firing through too hard and the arms left behind? Wouldn't the lead arm be pinned at that point just from a lack of anywhere else to go?

Or possibly runoff from the right elbow collapsing too much on the backswing and you get stuck.

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#13 ferrispgm

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:30 PM

View PostRichieHunt, on 12 June 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

View Postferrispgm, on 12 June 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

I see what you are saying...but couldn't this be a chicken or the egg type thing?  Fixing the left arm being pinned could alleviate the CoM moving forward or keeping the CoM from moving forward could allow the left arm to get off of the chest.   Could be different for each person.

You want the CoM to go forward and lower.  Pinning the left arm against the chest is an illusion as to what the golfer is really doing.  They are essentially allowing their arm to unfold and as they rotate, the arms start to lag behind the pivot.  That causes the right shoulder to go into external rotation and the shaft pitches.  And as you rotate, eventually the left arm will blast off the chest at the right time.

If you don’t have your CoM lower and move forward, you’ll instead start to fold the arm to deliver the club head to the ball.  That will cause the left arm to come off the chest prematurely.

The trail arm is key.  But IMO, in order to get the trail arm to work properly you need to shift your CoM properly.




RH

For whatever reason I was reading CoM as upper body/head moving towards the target......my bad.
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#14 Golfbeat

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:00 PM

Dana Dahlquist wants the left arm staying pinned to the body in the down swing. Waite /Mayo as well. Many ways to do it.
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#15 PJ1120

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:02 PM

Richie......what do you mean by "folding" the arm?


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#16 PJ1120

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM

Golfbeat.…..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

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#17 Golfbeat

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 06:07 PM

View PostPJ1120, on 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Golfbeat.…..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

He says that: Lead arm pressure stays against the chest into the downswing. He says that a good way to train this is to keep a glove in your left arm pit. He also wants the lead arm to stay up. He says that if you release the left arm (pressure point #4) that your body will stall and not turn through.  I assume that this is the difference between the body method versus the arms method. The interesting thing is that I have tried both methods and they both seems to work somehow.

Edited by Golfbeat, 13 June 2018 - 05:50 AM.

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#18 ShutSteepStuck

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 06:27 PM

View PostGolfbeat, on 12 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPJ1120, on 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Golfbeat.…..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

He says that: Lead arm pressure stays against the chest into the downswing. He says that a good way to train this is to keep a glove in your left arm pit. He also wants the lead arm to stay up. He says that if you release the left arm (pressure point #4) that your body will stall and not turn through.  I assume that this is the difference between the body method versus the arms method. The interesting thing is that I have tried both methods and they both seems to work somehow. Kuchhhh apparently had a similar experience.

Just a few questions...why, generally, will the body stall if you release PP #4 too soon? How soon is too soon, e.g. before p5ish...? How does initial hand path during the DS contribute to keeping or releasing PP#4, if at all?
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#19 iteachgolf

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:27 PM

View PostGolfbeat, on 12 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPJ1120, on 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Golfbeat.Ö..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

He says that: Lead arm pressure stays against the chest into the downswing. He says that a good way to train this is to keep a glove in your left arm pit. He also wants the lead arm to stay up. He says that if you release the left arm (pressure point #4) that your body will stall and not turn through.  I assume that this is the difference between the body method versus the arms method. The interesting thing is that I have tried both methods and they both seems to work somehow. Kuchhhh apparently had a similar experience.

Keeping PP4/glove under left arm pit isnít the same thing at all as being pinned across chest.

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#20 b.helts

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:11 PM

Sorry! A bit off topic, just a definition question. Is CoM Center of Mass?

Thanks!


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#21 Golf nerd

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:33 AM

View PostGolfbeat, on 12 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPJ1120, on 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Golfbeat.…..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

He says that: Lead arm pressure stays against the chest into the downswing. He says that a good way to train this is to keep a glove in your left arm pit. He also wants the lead arm to stay up. He says that if you release the left arm (pressure point #4) that your body will stall and not turn through.  I assume that this is the difference between the body method versus the arms method. The interesting thing is that I have tried both methods and they both seems to work somehow. Kuchhhh apparently had a similar experience.

The interesting thing with Dana is that he taught to some students to release the left arm of the chest to get the hands more forward like in this clip here.


But he changed his whole swing philosophy to the current version where he doesn't teach to move the left arm off the chest in the downswing. There are some possible reasons for that: he either wants to teach a different swing pattern which is superior or he wants to market his "own" swing without getting in conflict with his older sources. Who knows. In his clips he says that his current pattern allows to power the swing and have more control over the release.

Edited by Golf nerd, 13 June 2018 - 01:34 AM.


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#22 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:54 AM

You can get the CoM to move properly and R/L arm will move properly.

You can move R arm properly and get CoM and left arm to move properly.

You can get the L arm to move properly and get the R arm and CoM to move properly.

Depends on the golfer.

The left arm adducts slight in transition with an iron.  A few degrees.  With a driver, a few degrees more.  By left arm parallel it is rapidly accelerating away from the chest and the angle increases rapidly.

I’ll just ask this.  Can you throw a frisbee, hit a left handed cross court backhand in tennis, or swing an axe at a tree with more speed and power by loading the arm, shifting and pivoting will accelerating the left arm away from the chest....or pinning the arm on purpose and just trying to open up and pivot as much as possible?

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#23 ShutSteepStuck

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:59 AM

View PostGolf nerd, on 13 June 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

View PostGolfbeat, on 12 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPJ1120, on 12 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Golfbeat.…..is that Dana's turning into the left arm?

He says that: Lead arm pressure stays against the chest into the downswing. He says that a good way to train this is to keep a glove in your left arm pit. He also wants the lead arm to stay up. He says that if you release the left arm (pressure point #4) that your body will stall and not turn through.  I assume that this is the difference between the body method versus the arms method. The interesting thing is that I have tried both methods and they both seems to work somehow. Kuchhhh apparently had a similar experience.

The interesting thing with Dana is that he taught to some students to release the left arm of the chest to get the hands more forward like in this clip here.


But he changed his whole swing philosophy to the current version where he doesn't teach to move the left arm off the chest in the downswing. There are some possible reasons for that: he either wants to teach a different swing pattern which is superior or he wants to market his "own" swing without getting in conflict with his older sources. Who knows. In his clips he says that his current pattern allows to power the swing and have more control over the release.

Props to Dana for always refining things!. Don’t really know the context of that particular lesson but his current pattern seems very different in certian respects from what was said then in the video above.
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#24 Redjeep83

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

Dana was teaching SnT then, that was 2011. Stuff he teaches has changed

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#25 ferrispgm

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:07 AM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 13 June 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

You can get the CoM to move properly and R/L arm will move properly.

You can move R arm properly and get CoM and left arm to move properly.

You can get the L arm to move properly and get the R arm and CoM to move properly.

Depends on the golfer.

The left arm adducts slight in transition with an iron.  A few degrees.  With a driver, a few degrees more.  By left arm parallel it is rapidly accelerating away from the chest and the angle increases rapidly.

I’ll just ask this.  Can you throw a frisbee, hit a left handed cross court backhand in tennis, or swing an axe at a tree with more speed and power by loading the arm, shifting and pivoting will accelerating the left arm away from the chest....or pinning the arm on purpose and just trying to open up and pivot as much as possible?

Probably also the reason why most people can hit a 1/2 backswing wedge or short iron at near full swing distances or in some cases farther if they just try to accelerate as much as possible on the downswing.

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