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Good Bogie vs bad par


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#1 kozubs

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:11 AM

How many of you just succumb to this mindset.  I know I do.  Here's a framing for example.

Par 5, on in two and three putt par.  These drive me crazy.

Par 3 - Knock a ball in the water and am forced to re-tee.  Knock third shot tight for tap in Bogie.

I'm way happier with the Bogie because I recovered well.  Short term memory I guess.


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#2 Jon H

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:23 AM

I pulled a drive OB on a par 5 on Sat. re-tee'd and still made bogie. On a different par 5 the next day, I hit my second into the water, dropped and drained the next shot from 155 for bird.

So, is that a good bogie and bad birdie or should I be pissed that I was hacking around these holes and got away with it-ish?
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#3 Twism86

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:23 AM

Since im still new to this, I have a lot of "good bogies." I will take any par and bogie I can get at this stage of my game. I do agree that the one putt bogie recoveries do feel better than those multiple putt pars that could have been a birdie. That bogie could have been a double, so it feels better.
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#4 Ferguson

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

PAR is always better than a BOGEY.


A guy once told many years ago, "It ain't how, it's how many."

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#5 fowlerscousin

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:33 AM

Well duh the par 3 bogey is better because it's 4 strokes and not 5 strokes.  And in many amateur events a bogey on par 3 is strokes gained


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#6 kozubs

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:42 AM

View PostJon H, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 AM, said:

I pulled a drive OB on a par 5 on Sat. re-tee'd and still made bogie. On a different par 5 the next day, I hit my second into the water, dropped and drained the next shot from 155 for bird.

So, is that a good bogie and bad birdie or should I be pissed that I was hacking around these holes and got away with it-ish?

I consider that a good bogie and a hell of a birdie.  I guess I prefer playing a good shot to get out of trouble much more than a mediocre or bad shot that results in a better score.

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#7 naval2006

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:46 AM

I think there's no way a bogey is better than the worst par you can make.  This is golf, not theology or ethics.

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#8 rawdog

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:51 AM

It's recency bias.

You hit a crappy tee ball then 4 good shots to make a bogey, you feel good.

You hit 3 good shots then miss a putt, you feel bad.

Pretty simple.
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#9 joeylough

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:59 AM

A bad par wins over a good bogie.

But a good bogie gives confidence in the recovery. A bad par gives you an area to work on, putting if you have a 3 putt. But generally a bad par you have given yourself chances.

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#10 bigred90gt

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:51 PM

View Postfowlerscousin, on 12 June 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Well duh the par 3 bogey is better because it's 4 strokes and not 5 strokes.  And in many amateur events a bogey on par 3 is strokes gained

Honestly, that is an angle I never would have considered, but I can see that calming down the mind on a day of blow up holes.

I wouldnt call the par a "bad par", but it would be frustrating being on in 2 and 3 jacking for a par. To me a bad par would be hitting the green in regulation to kick in distance and missing the birdie putt. I would be far more pissed about missing a 2' birdie putt than I would bout making bogey after a water ball.


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#11 larrybud

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:36 PM

View PostFerguson, on 12 June 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

PAR is always better than a BOGEY.


A guy once told many years ago, "It ain't how, it's how many."

Sure, score wise it's always better, but mentally there's something to be said for a "good save" when that saved bogey could have been a double or a triple.  It's the mindset "alright, let's keep this going.  That was my "bad" hole, and my bad was just a bogey".

Edited by larrybud, 12 June 2018 - 02:38 PM.


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#12 Ferguson

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 12 June 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 12 June 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

PAR is always better than a BOGEY.


A guy once told many years ago, "It ain't how, it's how many."

Sure, score wise it's always better, but mentally there's something to be said for a "good save" when that saved bogey could have been a double or a triple.  It's the mindset "alright, let's keep this going.  That was my "bad" hole, and my bad was just a bogey".


Agreed about the mental part of it.  Maybe the 3-putt par gets you thinking that more time should be spent over the first putt?  
That could help too?

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#13 Lord Helmet

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:51 PM

View Postnaval2006, on 12 June 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I think there's no way a bogey is better than the worst par you can make.  This is golf, not theology or ethics.

Im in this camp.  I will take par however I get it, everyday and twice on Sunday.  Im playing golf.
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#14 andrue

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:54 PM

For me it's all about the ball striking. I've said several times before that I will take 'poor score, good striking' over 'good score, poor striking' any time. Last Sunday was a case in point. Scored a poor 101 from the standard tees but most of my balls launched nicely and followed a decent arc. They were even mostly close to target. I just fell foul of a dodgy drive that sent the ball into some gorse (a *****ly situation, ha ha) and a bunker filled with apparently fluffy but actually heavy sand. Took me three swings to get out of that bunker using my normally trusty 64 degree. It just wouldn't cut through the sand and kept preventing me from following through.

So I'd agree with the OP. The first one is lack of skill preventing you getting a birdie. The second one is bad luck followed by good luck.

But my regular partner is always inclined to say "There's no room on the scorecard for pictures." :)

Edited by andrue, 12 June 2018 - 02:54 PM.

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#15 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:56 PM

I'd never be mad about par.

But like the age old saying about the swing, goes for what your strokes are too: there are no pictures on a score card. Whether you miss a 2 foot birdie putt or put one a lake then hole out...

Actually did this the other day. Lost my first shot on a short par 4. Provisional in the fairway... next shot I holed out from about 60 yards. Wasn't a GIR then 2 putt, but it got the job done.

Edited by Z1ggy16, 12 June 2018 - 02:58 PM.

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#16 Barfolomew

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:42 PM

View PostFerguson, on 12 June 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

PAR is always better than a BOGEY.


A guy once told many years ago, "It ain't how, it's how many."

If you're in a tourney yeah!  But not if you're working on things in a practice round.  First off I dont ever want to 3 putt for on a par 5 cause means putting sucks but if I get a bad break in a nasty divot and play great to get bogey I'll take over 3 putting in a practice round! But hitting one in water is horrible vs a bad break....ijs

But I feel too many play for score too often and doesn't give yourself enough room to get better by working on things
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#17 JonPacNW

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:30 AM

I get this. It's all about the feeling you have after the hole. On those "good bogeys" you feel like your scrambling game has improved and pretty soon you should be able to save par even in trouble situations. When you miss an eagle and a birdie putt on the same hole, or duff a chip and leave yourself a 30 foot birdie putt, you feel like you may as well just go play range golf because your short game is garbage. That's a horrible feeling.

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#18 dedicated2journey

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

A good par can get you back on track if you've been struggling. A great bogey (like the one mentioned above) can actually jump start a round. I think the idea is that when we let go and play to TRUE potential, it makes us happy. US=Ego, sense of self in this reality. Recovery shots REMIND US who/what we really are.

However, when we make bad pars and bogeys...it is a HUGE blow to our sense of self...and those can really stall or hurt a round of golf.

To me, the framing is different. There is NO score. There is NO good. There is NO bad. There is only NOW. This shot...

However, applying that is extremely difficult at times...
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#19 hybrid25

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:40 AM

Good bogie on par 5 =
1-Tee shot goes o/b
3-Tee shot down mid fw
4-to 100 yds out
5-to 5ft
6-holed

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#20 dbbowen2

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:53 PM

Almost all of my Pars are ugly pars.

Par 5:

Hit driver short into fairway
Top my 3 wood CRAP
second 3 wood shot, hit green
2 putt

or

Par 4
Driver into the woods
barely make it out of the woods alive, at least im in the fairway now.
Hit mid iron to green
If lucky 1 putt


The saying about the score card not having photos or whatever is basically my game in a nutshell... Im almost never hitting fairway, then gir, then perfectly putting. I dont see how guys do it

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#21 oikos1

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:10 PM

There is no bad par.  Ever.  It may not be what you wanted, or needed, but never complain about par.  Or birdie putts.

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#22 otto6457

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:10 PM

The score card is the judge of the round.  Bad par beats good bogie.  Winning beats losing.  Collecting bets at end of round far more satisfying than paying off bets at end of round.

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#23 Shipwreck

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:46 PM

I get what the OP is saying. Yes at the end of the round a par is better than a bogie, but mentally a really good up and down for bogie goes a lot further for my confidence than a par I should have gotten a birdie on. Now Im not saying that I would prefer to string 5 holes together of awesome bogey saves, but I understand what is being said.

Its kind of like saying would you rather hit 3 terrible shots and make an amazing one putt par or hit amazing shots but never capitalize on a birdie opportunity? Either way its gonna drive you mad!
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#24 Hateto3Putt

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 05:41 AM

View Postkozubs, on 12 June 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

How many of you just succumb to this mindset.  I know I do.  Here's a framing for example.

Par 5, on in two and three putt par.  These drive me crazy.

Par 3 - Knock a ball in the water and am forced to re-tee.  Knock third shot tight for tap in Bogie.

I'm way happier with the Bogie because I recovered well.  Short term memory I guess.

Not a lot of people know this about me, but I HATE TO 3 PUTT.

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#25 juststeve

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:16 AM

I really don't think in these terms because the object of the game is to complete a hole with the fewest possible number of strokes.  Whether a given number of strokes is labeled a par, or a bogey, or a birdie is completely arbitrary.  This week the competitors at the US Open will play a 518 yard holed the USGA has labeled a par four,  The object of the game will be to complete that hole in the fewest number of strokes whether it's called a par four or a par five.  The problem I see with lots of golfers is they become slaves to the designation on the card  They will play the hole differently depending o whether it's labeled par four or par five.  Whatever the label the goal is to complete it in as few strokes as possible.

Steve

Edited by juststeve, 14 June 2018 - 08:22 AM.


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#26 JonPacNW

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:04 AM

People might be confusing "bad par" with "ugly par". Maybe this will clear things up. Taking the score out of it, would you rather have a good recovery game and a bad short game? What about a good short game and a bad recovery game? In reality, we all want (or should want) both. Recovery shots are part of golf at every level, and we need to be able to hit them. The short game (100 yards and in) is probably the single most important skill for scoring.

So maybe calling something a bad 4 and a good 5 are just not gonna jive with most people. However, everyone can agree that it's frustrating to have a weakness in your game add one more stroke than expected, and it feels good to hit great shots and end up with one less stroke on a hole than you probably should have.

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#27 oikos1

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:07 AM

View Postjuststeve, on 14 June 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

I really don't think in these terms because the object of the game is to complete a hole with the fewest possible number of strokes.  Whether a given number of strokes is labeled a par, or a bogey, or a birdie is completely arbitrary.  This week the competitors at the US Open will play a 518 yard holed the USGA has labeled a par four,  The object of the game will be to complete that hole in the fewest number of strokes whether it's called a par four or a par five.  The problem I see with lots of golfers is they become slaves to the designation on the card  They will play the hole differently depending o whether it's labeled par four or par five.  Whatever the label the goal is to complete it in as few strokes as possible.

Steve

Fewest strokes wins!  "Par" just doesn't get the respect it deserves. Looks like Shinnecock and the USGA are demanding that respect this week.

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#28 Quick Bucket

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:21 AM

Old Man Par is not impressed with this thread.
"Every battle is won before it's ever fought."   -Sun Tzu

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#29 chippa13

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:10 PM

My goal on every hole is to have a putt for par so any par is a good one.

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#30 jpdx

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:24 PM

a bad par feels worse than a good bogey because it could've been a bird - but I'd rather have the par on the scorecard.

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