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Jimmy Walker admits to regularly breaking rule of golf on Twitter


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#31 puttfordoux

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:31 AM

I'm sorry, JW looks bad here. The 'you should try it' comment was uncalled for. Yes we know you are a pro Jimmy, act like one.


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#32 iBanesto

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:33 AM

Wait a minute, is it really cheating as in breaking a rule of golf?

What is the is the exact rule?

Jimmy Walker doing this is more of a problem!



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#33 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:35 AM

View Postcuritiba, on 10 June 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

View Postsheldonjhacker, on 10 June 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

How TF does it help his "friend"?

If the second  player hits his ball too hard and the first players ball stops it, or slows it down,  and his ball ends up closer to the hole than it would have been if it had not hit the first players ball, it is a huge advantage.

It happens more often than people think.  There are lots of video examples of it. The problem with it is, the second player recieves an unfair benefit and the first player is not penalized because he is simply required to replace his ball as near to its original spot as possible.

Players have deliberately been leaving their balls near the hole to help other players for years now. 20 years ago you NEVER saw this.  It started quietly in the last decade or so with buddies helping buddies and now nearly all of them do it as a type of "courtesy" to the other player.  If you go up and mark your ball these days, as you are SUPPOSED TO DO, you are looked at by the other guys like a jerk.

Post a couple please!

I see it happen on par 3's and shots from the fairways, but rarely around the green.

https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21


Just one of many.  This was at Riviera I believe.

Some people don’t seem to understand that the problem here is the other player is DELIBERATELY helping Finau by purposely leaving his ball unmarked when he had plenty of time to mark it. When you are purposely “backstopping” for another player it is wrong.  Period.  I don’t see how anyone thinks this is OK.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 10 June 2018 - 08:41 AM.

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#34 Vindog

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:39 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 10 June 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Wait a minute, is it really cheating as in breaking a rule of golf?

What is the is the exact rule?



22-1. Ball Assisting Play


Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:

a.
Lift the ball if it is his ball; or

b.
Have any other ball lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned, unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified.

Note: When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted.

Edited by Vindog, 10 June 2018 - 08:40 AM.

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#35 curitiba

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:46 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

View Postcuritiba, on 10 June 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

View Postsheldonjhacker, on 10 June 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

How TF does it help his "friend"?

If the second  player hits his ball too hard and the first players ball stops it, or slows it down,  and his ball ends up closer to the hole than it would have been if it had not hit the first players ball, it is a huge advantage.

It happens more often than people think.  There are lots of video examples of it. The problem with it is, the second player recieves an unfair benefit and the first player is not penalized because he is simply required to replace his ball as near to its original spot as possible.

Players have deliberately been leaving their balls near the hole to help other players for years now. 20 years ago you NEVER saw this.  It started quietly in the last decade or so with buddies helping buddies and now nearly all of them do it as a type of "courtesy" to the other player.  If you go up and mark your ball these days, as you are SUPPOSED TO DO, you are looked at by the other guys like a jerk.

Post a couple please!

I see it happen on par 3's and shots from the fairways, but rarely around the green.

https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21


Just one of many.  This was at Riviera I believe.

Some people don't seem to understand that the problem here is the other player is DELIBERATELY helping Finau by purposely leaving his ball unmarked when he had plenty of time to mark it. When you are purposely "backstopping" for another player it is wrong.  Period.  I don't see how anyone thinks this is OK.

Ok, Its not breaking the rules and seems like the players dont care.

No big problem.


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#36 OutBackHack

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

View Postbullie76, on 10 June 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

It reads to me as though JW didn't know that was a rules infraction. Hard to say for sure but just reading between the lines in his response to Clayton. He's going to wish he never commented on the subject.

That may be true...I agree with you.
Also seems he doesn't know who Mike Clayton is =ignorance.
Didn't know it was a rule=ignorance.

Dude needs to pull his head out of his a**.

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#37 iBanesto

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:57 AM

View PostVindog, on 10 June 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostiBanesto, on 10 June 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Wait a minute, is it really cheating as in breaking a rule of golf?

What is the is the exact rule?



22-1. Ball Assisting Play


Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:

a.
Lift the ball if it is his ball; or

b.
Have any other ball lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned, unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified.

Note: When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted.

Learn something new everyday.

I must admit I have left my ball behind a hole as it may assist my fellow competitor. But then there wasn't an agreement.

I'm sure most of us have done that.

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#38 puttfordoux

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:01 AM

This article, from 2010...nothing new here...

http://collegiategol...-ball-1382.html

At the recent East Tennessee State Invitational an interesting situation arose that few players are aware of yet it is important and something that occurs in almost every competition.

A player from Virginia Tech hit a shot to the green just about a foot and a half behind the hole and I observed that he had not marked and lifted his ball, and at that time I realized that another player, from UNC, was about to play a pitch shot from just off of the green.   At that point I approached the green and almost simultaneously, both the player from UNC and me, said “mark your ball please.”  Why would I as a Rules Official intervene in a situation such as this?  Let’s look at Rule 22  “Ball Assisting or Interfering With Play.”

Rule 22-1 states that “Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player he may lift the ball if it is his ball or have any other ball lifted.”  In this case with the UNC player it was very evident that the VT player’s ball could have easily assisted his play since the VT player’s ball was directly behind the hole.

Let’s look at a couple of Decisions in the Rules of Golf that also cover this matter.  In Decision 22/6 a competitor asks that a ball in a position to assist him not be lifted.  Is such a request proper?  The answer is no!  If the two players were to agree not to lift the ball both players would be disqualified.

At the recent Middle Atlantic Amateur  a player requested a player not to lift his ball as he was about to putt from off of the green and the his fellow competitor agreed  and fortunately the Rules Official happened on the scene and prevented a potential disqualification.  In short the Rules Official was protecting the field.  He was acting in accordance with Decision 22/7 that directs him to intervene if such a situation arises.

Several years ago at the US Women’s Open, Patty Hurst was about to play a ball from just off the green and I asked her fellow competitor to lift her ball which was only a foot behind the hole.  Patty Hurst said, “I never heard of that Rule.”  It seems as if not many players are aware of the Rule since many, or might I say most, are not but they automatically lift the ball out of habit  not wanting their ball to be moved.

This Rule is violated many times over the course of a season.  I was first introduced to this Rule at the Cavalier Classic back in the early 1990’s by a well-known USGA Rules Official, Dr. Lew Blakey.  The players he was involved with back then were equally surprised.  Yours truly was also confronted by a similar situation at a recent American Junior Golf Association event and, as usual, the player said “I never heard of that.”

Please read Rule 22 Ball Assisting or Interfering with Play.  It just might help you avoid an embarrassing situation

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#39 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:02 AM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 10 June 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

View Postgvogel, on 10 June 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

ON the other hand, not marking does speed up play.
This^^^^
It reduces dicking around on the greens.

With respect I disagree, for example, the amount of players that endlessly re-align/re-mark their ball so the black marker line is on their intended path is out of control. There are so many more ways that players could speed up around the greens so I think they use speed of play as a cover in this instance.

Edited by OldTomMorris, 10 June 2018 - 09:57 AM.


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#40 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:03 AM

View Postcuritiba, on 10 June 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

View Postcuritiba, on 10 June 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

View Postsheldonjhacker, on 10 June 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

How TF does it help his "friend"?

If the second  player hits his ball too hard and the first players ball stops it, or slows it down,  and his ball ends up closer to the hole than it would have been if it had not hit the first players ball, it is a huge advantage.

It happens more often than people think.  There are lots of video examples of it. The problem with it is, the second player recieves an unfair benefit and the first player is not penalized because he is simply required to replace his ball as near to its original spot as possible.

Players have deliberately been leaving their balls near the hole to help other players for years now. 20 years ago you NEVER saw this.  It started quietly in the last decade or so with buddies helping buddies and now nearly all of them do it as a type of "courtesy" to the other player.  If you go up and mark your ball these days, as you are SUPPOSED TO DO, you are looked at by the other guys like a jerk.

Post a couple please!

I see it happen on par 3's and shots from the fairways, but rarely around the green.

https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21


Just one of many.  This was at Riviera I believe.

Some people don't seem to understand that the problem here is the other player is DELIBERATELY helping Finau by purposely leaving his ball unmarked when he had plenty of time to mark it. When you are purposely "backstopping" for another player it is wrong.  Period.  I don't see how anyone thinks this is OK.

Ok, Its not breaking the rules and seems like the players dont care.

No big problem.

But it IS a rules violation.  The only reason it isn’t enforced is because the players rarely say anything out loud to each other, and when they do, there is no rules official around to hear it, or if they do hear it they are too scared and gutless to do anything about it.

I the other player Says, “ hey tony, would you like me to leave my ball there or mark it?” And tony answers , “why yes fine sir, please leave your ball there so I might hit it if I come out of this crappy lie in the bunker too fast.”

THAT IS A RULES VIOLATION WHICH  REQUIRES DISQUALIFICATION OF BOTH PLAYERS.  It is collusion to aid tony in his shot and guess what....in this case it actually almost surely saved him a stroke.  Is that fair to the rest of the field trying to beat Tony??  Of course not.

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#41 curitiba

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:13 AM

Its not a rules violation. If it was, they would have been DQd.  Until further proof, Capital letters will not convince me otherwise.

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#42 curitiba

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:17 AM

Calling the PGATOUR Rules official Gutless and scared is not respectful.

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#43 JD3

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:19 AM

How is not markiny a ball assisting another player? I'd rather not have objects near my line.
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#44 BiggErn

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:25 AM

Seems rather moot to me. How does essentially marking a tap in or not help or hurt anyone?

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#45 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:26 AM

View PostJD3, on 10 June 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

How is not markiny a ball assisting another player? I'd rather not have objects near my line.

Click on the twitter link three posts up. It will be crystal clear.

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#46 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:29 AM

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Seems rather moot to me. How does essentially marking a tap in or not help or hurt anyone?

You guys can’t actually be serious.  You don’t understand what “backstopping” is?   As I just posted, watch the twitter video


https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 10 June 2018 - 09:30 AM.

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#47 BiggErn

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:47 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Seems rather moot to me. How does essentially marking a tap in or not help or hurt anyone?

You guys can’t actually be serious.  You don’t understand what “backstopping” is?   As I just posted, watch the twitter video


https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21


Lol who doesn’t do this? If two guys miss the green and player A hits it to 4 feet and player B is in position to hit then let him go ahead before marking the ball. If this is intentional then I guess Finau could just aim for the pin next time if the ball is marked....damn trick shot artist.

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#48 wobgon

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

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#49 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:06 AM

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Seems rather moot to me. How does essentially marking a tap in or not help or hurt anyone?

You guys can’t actually be serious.  You don’t understand what “backstopping” is?   As I just posted, watch the twitter video


https://twitter.com/...9450651649?s=21


Lol who doesn’t do this? If two guys miss the green and player A hits it to 4 feet and player B is in position to hit then let him go ahead before marking the ball. If this is intentional then I guess Finau could just aim for the pin next time if the ball is marked....damn trick shot artist.

Oh my God.  You guys.  Please. You are just stirring the pot now.  

In that video Finau’s playing partner had PLENTY of time to mark his ball while Tony surveyed his nasty plugged bunker shot.

He very deliberately left his ball there to help him in case Tony came out hot....which He did....and it clearly helped him.  

Even if it only helps one out of hundred times, it’s still wrong.  It’s cheating and it’s unfair to the rest of the field.

It’s not like this is an isolated “weird” case.  It happens far more than you would think.  It often happens when the cameras aren’t on.  Nearly every time it does happen on camera, the announcers make a point of saying that it has to stop,....yet it never does because there are no repercussions.

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#50 North Texas

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:10 AM

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

A little bit of a gray area for me since the players can "silently" agree not to mark balls that might influence another player's shot. And I think that is exactly what is happening.



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#51 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:16 AM

View PostNorth Texas, on 10 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

A little bit of a gray area for me since the players can "silently" agree not to mark balls that might influence another player's shot. And I think that is exactly what is happening.

Exactly.  Hit the nail on the head. Nothing is enforced because usually nothing is SAID.  It’s a silent understanding.  A t** for tat.  I’ll help you if you help me.

What got this thread  started is that Jimmy said on Twitter that he openly asks players if they want him to leave his ball and he insinuated that they tell him yes or no, either by word or by gesture.   That is a rules violation.
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#52 Shilgy

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:19 AM

View PostNorth Texas, on 10 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

View Postwobgon, on 10 June 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

So we all agree that it is not against the rules if it is not discussed by the players, right.

A little bit of a gray area for me since the players can "silently" agree not to mark balls that might influence another player's shot. And I think that is exactly what is happening.
Exactly. The Rule says a player "may" mark. Specifically does not say "must" mark.
  It could be argued that there is an ongoing agreement on the tour which would violate the rule but without specific verbal agreement it is a difficult violation to prove.
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#53 BiggErn

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:26 AM

So if I mark my ball in front of another player and ask if that’s in his line that’s a rules violation? If he says yes and I say “which way” is that another?

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#54 North Texas

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

So if I mark my ball in front of another player and ask if that’s in his line that’s a rules violation? If he says yes and I say “which way” is that another?

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

So if I mark my ball in front of another player and ask if that’s in his line that’s a rules violation? If he says yes and I say “which way” is that another?

Where and how did you draw your conclusions?

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#55 b.helts

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:31 AM

I understand the outcry. But the onus is on the player whose ball is on the green. The only way to “fix” this would be to create a rule that requires a ball be marked on the green within certain parameters. That causes problems of its own.

I agree Jimmy is a dipsh*t for admitting “do you want me to leave that there” but a vast, vast majority of the time these scenarios unfold without a word being spoken. Or the dude whose ball is on the green will ask “is that in your way” and if the guy playing next says no, leaves it there. In that scenario it is impossible to determine collusion or intent.

Unless you’re a dipsh*t like Jimmy W and admit to it.

Edited for language

Edited by b.helts, 10 June 2018 - 10:36 AM.


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#56 BiggErn

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:34 AM

View PostNorth Texas, on 10 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

So if I mark my ball in front of another player and ask if that’s in his line that’s a rules violation? If he says yes and I say “which way” is that another?

View PostBiggErn, on 10 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

So if I mark my ball in front of another player and ask if that’s in his line that’s a rules violation? If he says yes and I say “which way” is that another?

Where and how did you draw your conclusions?

Because it could be deemed a verbal yet inconspicuous way of helping the player.

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#57 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:37 AM

View Postb.helts, on 10 June 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

I understand the outcry. But the onus is on the player whose ball is on the green. The only way to “fix” this would be to create a rule that requires a ball be marked on the green within certain parameters. That causes problems of its own.

I agree Jimmy is a dipshit for admitting “do you want me to leave that there” but a vast, vast majority of the time these scenarios unfold without a word being spoken. Or the dude whose ball is on the green will ask “is that in your way” and if the guy playing next says no, leaves it there. In that scenario it is impossible to determine collusion or intent.

Unless you’re a dipshit like Jimmy W and admit to it.


LOL.  Good summation.  Like I said earlier, maybe that Lyme disease he’s been fighting killed some brain cells....(yes, I’m kidding).


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#58 Socrates

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:37 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 10 June 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

It is collusion to aid tony in his shot and guess what....in this case it actually almost surely saved him a stroke.
There is no collusion.  Haven't you been watching the news?
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#59 2putttom

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:39 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 10 June 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

View PostVindog, on 10 June 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostiBanesto, on 10 June 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Wait a minute, is it really cheating as in breaking a rule of golf?

What is the is the exact rule?



22-1. Ball Assisting Play


Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:

a.
Lift the ball if it is his ball; or

b.
Have any other ball lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned, unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified.

Note: When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted.

Learn something new everyday.

I must admit I have left my ball behind a hole as it may assist my fellow competitor. But then there wasn't an agreement.

I'm sure most of us have done that.
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#60 North Texas

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:39 AM

View Postb.helts, on 10 June 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

I understand the outcry. But the onus is on the player whose ball is on the green. The only way to “fix” this would be to create a rule that requires a ball be marked on the green within certain parameters. That causes problems of its own.

I agree Jimmy is a dipshit for admitting “do you want me to leave that there” but a vast, vast majority of the time these scenarios unfold without a word being spoken. Or the dude whose ball is on the green will ask “is that in your way” and if the guy playing next says no, leaves it there. In that scenario it is impossible to determine collusion or intent.

Unless you’re a dipshit like Jimmy W and admit to it.

Not to mention he admits to taking into account whether or not he likes the other player. That is a huge problem to me. Really don't understand why other players are not speaking out about this unless it's just a lack of intestinal fortitude.

Maybe it's just me but I would damn sure have a problem with it.

Edited by North Texas, 10 June 2018 - 10:41 AM.


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