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MI State High School Tournament - Controversy


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#1 spartan6910

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:40 PM

Two teams seem to have....ahem....exceeded expectations in their regional tournament en route to a showing in the state final tournament.  I'll let the article and the final standings do the talking. All I'll say is....wow.

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Edited by spartan6910, 09 June 2018 - 09:41 PM.

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#2 Bob Cat

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:40 PM

Something's amiss.  Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.

This is not the last we'll hear on this.

Judgement reserved.
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#3 BertGA

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:02 PM

 Bob Cat, on 10 June 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Something's amiss.  Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.

This is not the last we'll hear on this.

Judgement reserved.

If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?

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#4 Noles

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:33 AM

Cheating in junior golf...who would have thought?  lol

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#5 kgeisler13

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:50 AM

Pretty sure the two schools that "cheated" practice together and share the same home course.

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#6 walpy

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:58 AM

Wow.... those scores in the tournament proper. Not a team that could drop -4

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#7 LoganHecky

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:46 AM

 BertGA, on 10 June 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

 Bob Cat, on 10 June 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Something's amiss.  Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.

This is not the last we'll hear on this.

Judgement reserved.

If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?

The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.

Edited by LoganHecky, 01 August 2018 - 08:47 AM.

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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:51 AM

 LoganHecky, on 01 August 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

 BertGA, on 10 June 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

 Bob Cat, on 10 June 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Something's amiss.  Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.

This is not the last we'll hear on this.

Judgement reserved.

If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?

The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.

Not unlikely at all in High School golf.  If there are 5 teams in the tournament, two teams will be paired together as two's in each group.  There are districts in Florida that only have 4 teams.  They pair them as two and two.

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#9 irvtrain

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 09:33 AM

Pretty obvious once you see their tournament scores they cheated in the qualifiers. The question is, why post such low scores in the qualifier? Making it so obvious. Why not +10 or something and not -4?

Edited by irvtrain, 01 August 2018 - 12:00 PM.


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#10 iteachgolf

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 05:34 PM

 heavy_hitter, on 01 August 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

 LoganHecky, on 01 August 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

 BertGA, on 10 June 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

 Bob Cat, on 10 June 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Something's amiss.  Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.

This is not the last we'll hear on this.

Judgement reserved.

If both teams conspired to ďimproveĒ each otherís scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didnít win a single tourney?

The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.

Not unlikely at all in High School golf.  If there are 5 teams in the tournament, two teams will be paired together as two's in each group.  There are districts in Florida that only have 4 teams.  They pair them as two and two.

Article clearly states they played in 3 some with the third team also shooting lower than their average.


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#11 nuthin but a hacker

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 10:13 PM

We saw some cheating in middle school golf but the cheating at the high school level has been worse. Some kids/parents will do anything to win.
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#12 BertGA

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 06:17 AM

Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.

https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27

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#13 leezer99

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 07:41 AM

Hurricane Junior Golf Tour doing the same: Live Scoring App

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#14 BertGA

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 08:40 AM

 leezer99, on 27 December 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Hurricane Junior Golf Tour doing the same: Live Scoring App

Wow...that was an inspirational video. Seems like anyone can be their own Michael Bay with some drone footage these days.


Just...wow. Makes me wanna get a fake birth cert and sign up for the HJGT.

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#15 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:15 AM

 BertGA, on 27 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.

https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27

I don't see how this will help cheating.  Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.


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#16 jj9000

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:48 AM

I just shot a -3 through 18.

...and I didn't even leave the couch.

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#17 BertGA

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:00 AM

 heavy_hitter, on 27 December 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

 BertGA, on 27 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.

https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27

I don't see how this will help cheating.  Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.

Perhaps the live scoring allows everyone in the group to monitor the score throughout the round, and challenge. It would also allow officials to compare current scores to historical, maybe that would prompt them to head out on the course and actually witness the history being made.

Either way, I'm sure the app is but one part of a strategy they are hopefully using to prevent another occurrence. They got a huge amount of publicity for a state HS championship. And it was all negative.

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#18 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:32 AM

 BertGA, on 27 December 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 27 December 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

 BertGA, on 27 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.

https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27

I don't see how this will help cheating.  Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.

Perhaps the live scoring allows everyone in the group to monitor the score throughout the round, and challenge. It would also allow officials to compare current scores to historical, maybe that would prompt them to head out on the course and actually witness the history being made.

Either way, I'm sure the app is but one part of a strategy they are hopefully using to prevent another occurrence. They got a huge amount of publicity for a state HS championship. And it was all negative.

Everyone should be monitoring the scoring of their own groups.  No one can challenge someones score.  Do you really think that a tournament official has access to prior scores?  Officials aren't watching scoreboards.

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#19 BertGA

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 12:47 PM

I understand you should monitor scores of the group, but I donít know what someone is marking on their scorecard until we get to the table. If itís live updates, I can keep track of what I believe someoneís score is, as well as view what they recorded, throughout the round.

And if Iím a spectator, I can monitor as well. Sometimes the appearance of more transparency can deter cheating or crime. If I am a shoplifter and I see cameras in the ceiling, Iím probably less likely to steal. Doesnít matter that I donít know if they are even recording.

I donít really have any more insight than you, Iím just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they have determined, somehow, that this will help prevent the actions that happened. But I donít really know that.

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#20 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:49 PM

 BertGA, on 27 December 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

I understand you should monitor scores of the group, but I don't know what someone is marking on their scorecard until we get to the table. If it's live updates, I can keep track of what I believe someone's score is, as well as view what they recorded, throughout the round.

And if I'm a spectator, I can monitor as well. Sometimes the appearance of more transparency can deter cheating or crime. If I am a shoplifter and I see cameras in the ceiling, I'm probably less likely to steal. Doesn't matter that I don't know if they are even recording.

I don't really have any more insight than you, I'm just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they have determined, somehow, that this will help prevent the actions that happened. But I don't really know that.

The problem with live updates is if they mark the scores incorrectly.  FHSAA does live scoring in Florida through Shotstat.  Two girls had hole in ones recorded for 18 holes until the end of the round.  It even says on the web page that the scores are not official.  Even with live scoring there is no real way to tell.


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#21 nuthin but a hacker

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Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

Live scoring allows spectators (parents) to monitor scores and catch mistakes. The scorer at a tournament this summer swapped my daughter's score with another girl in the group. My wife was watching the live scores and notified someone and the scores were fixed quickly.
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