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Really unlucky this month! Deadbeat seller won't make good


81 replies to this topic

#31 Bad9

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:41 AM

View PostAjax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

So what was your previous id here? This id has been registered barely 2 weeks yet you seem to know all about the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly

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#32 Ajax2017Dj2004

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

View PostCasualLie, on 06 June 2018 - 10:12 AM, said:

View PostAjax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

Flubber only communicates through this thread...I sent a PM asking for a refund, and he replies three days later with change the battery.  I change the battery, still the same issues, and send another PM asking for refund and no reply for two days so I started this thread per the moderator's instructions.

I feel for you, I hope this all works out. I'm not taking sides here but the pics you post really do show what I can only describe as damage. Paypal should easily side with you on this issue if the seller doesn't try to come to an amicable solution.
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#33 Ajax2017Dj2004

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

View PostBad9, on 06 June 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

View PostAjax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

So what was your previous id here? This id has been registered barely 2 weeks yet you seem to know all about the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly

just an observation by several other post on here. I'm sorry if that offended you somehow.
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#34 juggernaut0629

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:00 AM

View PostCasualLie, on 06 June 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's not "well said".

The 7 days I did not make an issue is not an issue.  I was out of town.  Here is my United receipt of travel.  So, no I didn't take the range finder to bottle service and it got damaged among the fun.

Attachment United2.jpg

The shipping address was my office where I can trust the mail room to securely hold onto the package while I was out.  I left town before the package arrived, out 7 days, and on the first day back in the office I inspected.

It's funny people want to make issue with the 7 day gap, but no one looks at the original seller story that this rangefinder was apparently lost or misplaced for sometime by the seller, then found after he bought a new one.  How long was it lost?  What happened during that time?  Who loses a rangefinder anyway for so long as to go buy a new one?

Here are some more pics that show how the display around the edges is an issue.  I just took these this morning.

Attachment IMG_2118.jpg

Attachment IMG_2120.jpg

Hey flubber, I really don't need a defective rangefinder, stand behind your word.  Post on here you will issue a full refund upon receipt of the rangefinder and I will send it to you first.  Not so smart of me to send it first, but why not, it's not like I have not already lost out.


I meant the end of the post. Last 2 paragraphs. I personally stay away from buying electronics here. Usually if someone is selling a range finding device, or something like that, it's because it is broke, or ready to break. The seller Usually knows that & is just trying to pass it off at a good dollar. Stuff like this isn't something people just get rid of.

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#35 jut111

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:11 AM

Not saying itís right either way, but curious if it works or not?  Is it just cosmetic or does it not display accurate yardage?


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#36 dxdgenert

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:33 AM

View PostCasualLie, on 06 June 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's not "well said".

The 7 days I did not make an issue is not an issue.  I was out of town.  Here is my United receipt of travel.  So, no I didn't take the range finder to bottle service and it got damaged among the fun.

Attachment United2.jpg

The shipping address was my office where I can trust the mail room to securely hold onto the package while I was out.  I left town before the package arrived, out 7 days, and on the first day back in the office I inspected.

It's funny people want to make issue with the 7 day gap, but no one looks at the original seller story that this rangefinder was apparently lost or misplaced for sometime by the seller, then found after he bought a new one.  How long was it lost?  What happened during that time?  Who loses a rangefinder anyway for so long as to go buy a new one?

Here are some more pics that show how the display around the edges is an issue.  I just took these this morning.

Attachment IMG_2118.jpg

Attachment IMG_2120.jpg

Hey flubber, I really don't need a defective rangefinder, stand behind your word.  Post on here you will issue a full refund upon receipt of the rangefinder and I will send it to you first.  Not so smart of me to send it first, but why not, it's not like I have not already lost out.
CasualLie (p.s. bad handle, given the circumstances),
Can you please take photos of the unit and send them to the seller or post them here. If you can show proof the unit isnít physically damaged, it narrows down that the unit was either a) damaged when sold or b) damaged during transit.
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#37 Tyus Stones

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:33 AM

Couple rules of thumb:

1. If you're gonna buy anything used, always ask for every conceivable pic/angle ahead of time. ESPECIALLY if its tech. You need photos (me personally, I'd ask for a video) to prove that the item functions properly and there's no issues.

2. If the buyer has a legitimate reason for being unhappy/upset with a transaction, why not just settle on a return/refund and move on with your lives? Yes these threads do provide the rest of us with some decent People's Court style entertainment, but what do the buyer and seller get out of it?  These threads almost always end with both sides ending up on many members block lists

Just take the junky rangefinder back and lets all move on with our lives :)

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#38 lebanontngolfer

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:19 PM

File the dispute/claim with PayPal as defective and provide proof of return shipment.  Let them sort it out with the seller.  PayPal will reimburse you the purchase price, and now, they will even reimburse the shipping cost.  Be sure to enroll for this free service before returning it, then take a photo of the shipping label with seller's address and a photo of the shipment cost receipt.

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#39 Gdashoff

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 03:14 PM

Like other people said, handle through PayPal with their shipping. There was the one thread where the guy returned the fake SM7s (I think?) and the clubs were lost in transit. Since shipping wasn't using PayPal, paypal ignored the buyers claim. As long as you go through them there's no worry about shipping then getting a refund (assuming you didn't use friends and family, still haven't seen that clarified I don't think).

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#40 snapier

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 07:14 PM

If the OP files a PayPal dispute, it is likely he will be made whole.  But he should take a certain amount of responsibility for buying a used electronic device over the internet.   The OP doesn’t seem to consider the possibility of damage in transit or damage occurring after seven days in the caompany mailroom.  Or simply an unlikely electronic failure with age.  Used electronics should be sold as is and the seller may be able to make this argument with PayPal.

As a buyer and seller of vintage hi fi, electronic stability Is a big issue when shipping / receiving.  Buyers should assume some risk.


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#41 rrowe

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:18 AM

 Bad9, on 06 June 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 Ajax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

So what was your previous id here? This id has been registered barely 2 weeks yet you seem to know all about the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly

You have 3k+ posts and haven't seen the "holier than thou" attitude that he describes at times on these posts? I find that more surprising.

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#42 nsxguy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:12 PM

 snapier, on 06 June 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

If the OP files a PayPal dispute, it is likely he will be made whole.  But he should take a certain amount of responsibility for buying a used electronic device over the internet.   The OP doesn’t seem to consider the possibility of damage in transit or damage occurring after seven days in the caompany mailroom.  Or simply an unlikely electronic failure with age.  Used electronics should be sold as is and the seller may be able to make this argument with PayPal.

As a buyer and seller of vintage hi fi, electronic stability Is a big issue when shipping / receiving.  Buyers should assume some risk.

Couple of interesting points.

While you're correct in that the display itself can "fade" over time (and that is an issue buying used electronic equipment), would a device's LED display "fade" like that because of being jostled around a bit during shipping ? I would think that wouldn't be the case (but i don't know for sure)

How about the jagged edge ? Would that possibly happen during shipping ? Somehow I wouldn't think so.

I think we can all agree that the unit, as shown by the OP is NOT in "phenomenal shape". And the defects shown, *I* wouldn't think are the results of shipping. So I would have to conclude that it was shipped that way.

Now, as for Paypal. Used electronics with those issues ? Hmmmmmmm,,,,,, I've had and done eBay returns and know eBay will side with the seller over 99% of time time (barring unusual circumstances) but is the PayPal's "guarantee" the same ?

And just playing Devil's Advocate for a second, since it appears one side or the other is,,,,,,,,,,,, ummmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,stretching the truth a bit,,,,,,,,, what would happen if someone sent back a package the approximate size and weight of the disputed item, gave PP the tracking showing delivery and got their refund,,,,,,,,,, but in the package was a rock ? What then ?
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#43 Justmuckit

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:21 PM

My block list gets longer and longer...

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#44 dmac4g

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:58 PM

My block list just grew by 2.............3 pages and growing.............

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#45 bigeasy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:29 PM

There are too many brand new rangefinders for $250 or abouts to purchase a used one on here for $300.

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#46 juggernaut0629

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:32 PM

 bigeasy, on 07 June 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

There are too many brand new rangefinders for $250 or abouts to purchase a used one on here for $300.


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#47 ping rat

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:36 PM

OK, not looking to get flamed but I have the same range finder, it has fallen out of my cart and bounced down the path more than once. I have used it in the rain, when its cart path only I carry it out, shoot my distance and drop it on my towel (like my approach shots I often miss) and it is performing just like new. In other words they are a pretty tough unit. If I had any complaints it would be they do go through batteries pretty quick. I also have a friend that dropped his Leopold and it was giving a what he described a weird view(i never saw this) although it seemed to be accurate, he sent it in for repair and they sent him a new unit for free. That said I think the seller should refund and send it in for repair, or OP send it in and if they quote a price to make it right seller should refund the difference.
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#48 wrbush31

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:27 PM

 ping rat, on 07 June 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

(like my approach shots I often miss)

Well done.
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#49 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:06 PM

 rrowe, on 07 June 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

 Bad9, on 06 June 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 Ajax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

So what was your previous id here? This id has been registered barely 2 weeks yet you seem to know all about the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly

You have 3k+ posts and haven't seen the "holier than thou" attitude that he describes at times on these posts? I find that more surprising.

From what I’ve seen, those “holier” (not my choice of wording) type attitudes come from people who are established here, AND have a large number of BST transactions. The “attitude” comes from experience dealing with issues here.

Quite frankly, I’m more amazed at the people who come on who have just joined, have just a handful of posts and no BST feedback, and presume to know better how these type deals normally play out.
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#50 GoIrish17

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

 deadsolid...shank, on 08 June 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

 rrowe, on 07 June 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

 Bad9, on 06 June 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 Ajax2017Dj2004, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

So what was your previous id here? This id has been registered barely 2 weeks yet you seem to know all about the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly

You have 3k+ posts and haven't seen the "holier than thou" attitude that he describes at times on these posts? I find that more surprising.

From what I’ve seen, those “holier” (not my choice of wording) type attitudes come from people who are established here, AND have a large number of BST transactions. The “attitude” comes from experience dealing with issues here.

Quite frankly, I’m more amazed at the people who come on who have just joined, have just a handful of posts and no BST feedback, and presume to know better how these type deals normally play out.

The same guys who have an uninformed comment about the number of “deals gone bad lately” when one of these threads pop up. Some people just want to get involved in the discussion, even with no substance or experience to add to it.

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#51 grm24

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:51 PM

 deadsolid...shank, on 08 June 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Quite frankly, I’m more amazed at the people who come on who have just joined, have just a handful of posts and no BST feedback, and presume to know better how these type deals normally play out.
Agreed. These type of "new" posters are in  general previously banned WRX members that are back under their 3rd, 8th, 12th profile name because of previously screwing people over. They tend to be an apparition that will likely be gone soon.

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#52 RookieBlue7

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:24 PM

File a claim, let PayPal sort it out

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#53 wkuo3

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:59 AM

Seller should always provide a full disclosure / description without the need of being questioned.
If the seller is too busy to give full disclosure, it's time to move on.

Buyer needs to exercise caution , exam the purchase upon receipt, this way there is no issue of whether the buyer had time to cause the damage while the item was in possession .

No clear cut either way since both did not exercise reasonable care through the transaction.  One or both knew what really happened, and is not telling the truth.   The picture of the damaged optic function is not the whole story, because of the time lapsed between the receiving of the item and when the evidence presented.

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#54 wrighterjw10

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

So, are there updated pictures of the outside of the range finder showing no obvious damage?  Why have those not been posted yet?  Its the obvious missing piece of the puzzle here...

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#55 dxdgenert

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:16 AM

 wrighterjw10, on 11 June 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

So, are there updated pictures of the outside of the range finder showing no obvious damage?  Why have those not been posted yet?  Its the obvious missing piece of the puzzle here...
Thatís what I said... the fact that the OP has been in this thread but failed to provide them, gives me pause.

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#56 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

Hey OP... Understand your frustration, especially if the seller is unwilling to refund, which sounds like what is happening.

I know Leopold said to send it in and they will quote a repair,,, but too their credit, a friend of mine had an older model out of warranty and they mentioned the same, he sent it in and the sent him a new unit, no $. I'm not saying they do this every time, but they did and seem more that fair to work with.. Though It would be a tough pill to swallow if the repair was a ridiculous amount...
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#57 CasualLie

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:55 AM

I can take pics of the outside if it really matters.  There is no obvious outside damage, just some simple scratches/wear that I would attribute to the age of the product, no big deal.  The range finder was well packed, the outside of the box looked clean.  The outside looks the same as in the pics of the sale.  PM me if you think pics of the outside with proof they occurred today will put your mind at ease that I did not do any damage.  The reason I am not in a hurry to post the pics is simply, what for?  The seller is not refunding, not responding to PMs, not engaging at any level.

I readily admit, I could have done more due diligence upfront.  I try not to operate with extreme suspicion first and more with trust, my fault, but overall it is much more efficient for me.  It's not like I was buying a used 911 that could have been in an accident.  It's $300, in the grand scheme of things, it's nothing.  I get it that people tend to wait on the doorstep for their purchases and will report right away when something is amiss...but I travel a lot and trust the mailroom of my company to hold onto things securely.  They are 100% at this.  Yes, the purchase through BST was a bit impulsive, I don't have a lot of time for haggling.  Anyone who has sold something to me at Golfwrx could attest I make the transaction as fast as can be.  You set a price, I pay it, what's your paypal, I send it as fast as you provide.  I am trusting the community and the reputation.  So far, it's been great only one bad transaction out of 50+?  Better than Ebay by far.

I am still ticked at Frogger for believing they made a clever product that actually resulted in my losing the first range finder which was practically new.  And those jerks even posted on Twitter "oh, we will try to make this right." as if they were really concerned, but then they disappeared from the conversation.  Not that I was expecting anything from them.  But after spending $100's on towels and brushes over the years with those guys, I would expect they test their accessories better.

There's a reason I titled the thread bad luck.  From my point of view, I was just living life as normal, didn't do anything out of the ordinary.  I was using this Frogger magnet a few times and it seems to be ok, then the 3rd time out the range finder disappeared off the cart.  However, I did discover this within one hole, so I was fairly quick in retracing my steps and asking the three groups behined me.  They all say they didn't see it, but one of them is lying because if you have ever seen a dropped Leupold with the yellow plate in grass on the course, you can spot it 100+ yards away.  So it didn't just magically get stolen by a gopher.  And then this happens at Golfwrx...bad luck month...but not really, it's not like my whole month is defined by golfwrx purchases.  Just a little bad luck this month golf related...I even have less birdies than normal!  haha!

I am going to keep this down to a few simple facts and just leave it at that.

- As I stated in the first post, I took exception to the condition listed as "phenomenal".  I get it that condition ratings can be subjective, but when the optics are that off in condition, then I can't just say nothing.  I am not disputing the outside condition, the laser does get accurate distances, although how would I know if the slope is accurate?  Seems so...I am not disputing age, not disputing shipping.  I am only pointing out that "phenomenal" does not equal optics that you see in my pics.

- There was not damage in shipping, and I didn't damage the product.  The optic issue is not something that just happens in transit or from one drop.  As someone posted earlier, these things actually can take a lot.

- The seller has been very difficult.  Very little communication, not even an attempt to compromise.  So the thread was not some over reaction.  

And that's it.  I only started this thread for one simple reason, to warn others do not buy from flubber.  His definition of phenomenal is what everyone else would call "fair".  Had he been honest about that one word, I would not have bought the item and there would not be this issue. Ideally, we would have seen the thread, the community response, and made good on it, but he has not, and I am not surprised.

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#58 PaulCar65

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 11:06 AM

Did you file a PayPal dispute?

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#59 grm24

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:04 PM

 PaulCar65, on 11 June 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Did you file a PayPal dispute?
I get the feeling that the OP paid using Friends & Family and can't file a PayPal dispute.

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#60 GoIrish17

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:30 PM

 grm24, on 11 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

 PaulCar65, on 11 June 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Did you file a PayPal dispute?
I get the feeling that the OP paid using Friends & Family and can't file a PayPal dispute.

I also question why the chasing the seller for a reply, the DonD thread, etc. rather than just file a PP dispute "not as described" and be done with it.

Though, it doesn't give the seller a pass to not acknowledge the buyer's communication and flip him the bird. The buyer has to deal with the consequences of a bad payment decision, but the seller should be held accountable for a poor transaction all around. Regardless of payment method, his standing on GolfWRX/BST should be examined if he can't be bothered to answer questions after he's made a sale.

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