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Bryson DeChambeau Winning Again


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#61 OsnolaKinnard

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:06 PM

View Postrawdog, on 06 June 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 06 June 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Cobra claims 60%+ of their sales are single length.  All last year when I worked at a big box store I think we sold 4 sets.  Lots of interest, absolutely!  I will give credit to Cobra there, they definitely were able to generate a lot of buzz.  However, most people don't want to hit chest-high 4, 5, and 6 irons that run out 40 yards and all carry about 6 yards longer than a 7i does.  I tried a set, and I have the same issues everyone else is having with them.  The long irons fly too low, and the short irons are well...just short.  They don't go anywhere.  I swear I've lost a full club going to these and encroaching on two clubs in my 9i and PW.  I've tried ball position too.

They are fun to bring out once and a while, but to keep as a staple in the bag?  No chance.  There is a reason the EQL failed some 25-30 years ago.  There is a reason literally no other company is doing it.  Remember the Wilson Fat Shaft?  Wilson guys were all over it proclaiming it to be the next god-tier innovation in golf.  Even Wilson admits it was a terrible design and wants to kill it with fire.  I give Cobra two more years with the SL idea before it disappears completely.

As for Bryson, he didn't exactly win the tournament in dominating fashion.  The guy is really good, but he's a headcase that got lucky.  Nobody challenged him at all on Sunday, while he blasted driver all over the planet (at 43" mind you...), and had some of the laziest attempts at birdie I've seen in a long time.  He coasted his way into the club house when it was ripe for a massive run.  If Justin Rose, J.B. Holmes, Niemann, Fowler, or Woods had caught a little fire on the front run and posted a -2 to -4 early to get them to around the -14 number early, Bryson would have puked and probably shot +2 or +3.  All he had to contend with was watching Cantlay be slow.

I hope not, or else I need to start hoarding.

It's a great concept for parts of the bag, IMO. Also, I don't think it's a good "off the rack" solution. You know everyone has their break point where the loft just isn't going to be enough to get airborne. I swing my SL irons (down to the 9i at least) roughly 87 mph. beyond 24*, there was no benefit. And I play my irons 3/4" shorter than stock.

I had 3 Trackman sessions to select shaft and then to figure out the lowest loft I could effectively elevate. Then we tested loft gapping backwards from there. Hence my different specs.

I have struggled to shape shots with the 6 iron, though height and distance is there. So I have employed an RBZ 6 iron for craps and giggles so I can work the ball better. Something in the geometry just wasn't right with the F7.

As I noted, my results from 150 and in has been significant improvement compared to prior years, though this is anecdotal (as much as I preach data, I haven't collected much).

I will say, that I did have the feeling the short irons were "short" after a couple rounds. Somewhere along the way, though, I started swinging the short irons with more speed, and have been able to get very nice gapping, on par with my traditional set.

This was my long-winded way of saying I don't think SL is a good off-the-rack solution, the loft gaps will be an issue (duh), and that I am the rare bird that sees more benefit from SL short irons and wedges than SL long irons.

I could see myself with traditional 5 & 6, then SL 7-LW.

I don't care if it disappears completely or not, but I love my Single Length Irons.  I don't hit a lot of 5 iron approach shots, and when I do, I have no problem hitting it high enough.

I love being tall so that I get the best of SL Irons and can still hit a 5 iron as high as I need to.

I kind of feel bad for the rest of the manlets that can't do that.

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#62 EvoIX

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

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#63 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.
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#64 rawdog

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:37 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.

Would it be a stretch to say Cobra SL irons would not exist if not for Bryson?

I mean, there was always the Pinhawk, Wishon, etc niche, but he is the poster boy for the SL concept, for better or worse.

Sure, the extreme lie angles and JumboMax grips are odd, but both have been done before on tour. Notah Begay and Ray Floyd have been noted as having extreme lie angles. Kelly Craft plays JumboMax. To me, playing a LW that is 37.25 inches is more bizarre than either of those, but that's obviously subjective.

Toss in an element of "see, I told you it works", and there ya go. I got more than a few texts last weekend when he won. I only play 65* lie angles though, a midsize grips. May have to go Jumbo if I want to win on tour...

PS, you left out the single plane swing :D
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#65 Aucaveman

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:26 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say itíd be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but havenít actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didnít feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.

The op didn't ask about playing mega jumbo grips, extreme lie angles, or if we thought Bryson was weird, he asked if more people would try sl irons because they were used to win on the pga tour by Bryson. The sl concept is different because it's only used by 1 pro on the tour (that I know of). So obviously there's a correlation between his sl irons and the amateur market sl irons.

Furthermore, if your argument is they're different because of grips or specs, then that would be true to vl irons too. I would say atleast 90% since most amateurs buy off the rack clubs with standard specs.

A better analogy would be the cleveland vas irons. Nobody would play them except pavin. While just an iron, they were a different concept. Regardless of his specs, it was still a different concept. I'm sure the vas sold because of His us open victory which is similar to the op question.


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#66 SecondandGoal

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:51 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

That's just not true at all. The heads in the SL set are all the same weight - weight has been added to the long iron heads and removed from the short iron heads. All clubs are the same swing weight. That's not the case in a VL set.
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#67 taylormade4life

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:14 AM

View Postdisco111, on 11 June 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

If Bryson should happen to win the USO, it would be very interesting to see what the SL market does. I would imagine that other OEM's would possibly come on board. It's rumored that PING may be interested and IMO, if he wins, I think they will pursue the SL platform. Even without winning, but a top 5 finish could be enough of a catalyst. Could be very interesting if it happens.

While I don't buy into the SL theory, I agree with this. The best way for it to grow is tour success. It really doesn't matter what I think, if he wins it will sell some irons.

I just don't like the guy for whatever reason lol.

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#68 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:24 AM

View PostSecondandGoal, on 12 June 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

That's just not true at all. The heads in the SL set are all the same weight - weight has been added to the long iron heads and removed from the short iron heads. All clubs are the same swing weight. That's not the case in a VL set.

Obviously.  I wasn't speaking literally.  The clubs you buy in the store called Cobra SL are closer to Cobra VL than they are to Bryson's was my point.  Obviously I didn't literally mean that you just cut VL clubs to the same length to make SL clubs.

View PostAucaveman, on 12 June 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it'd be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven't actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn't feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.

The op didn't ask about playing mega jumbo grips, extreme lie angles, or if we thought Bryson was weird, he asked if more people would try sl irons because they were used to win on the pga tour by Bryson. The sl concept is different because it's only used by 1 pro on the tour (that I know of). So obviously there's a correlation between his sl irons and the amateur market sl irons.

Furthermore, if your argument is they're different because of grips or specs, then that would be true to vl irons too. I would say atleast 90% since most amateurs buy off the rack clubs with standard specs.

A better analogy would be the cleveland vas irons. Nobody would play them except pavin. While just an iron, they were a different concept. Regardless of his specs, it was still a different concept. I'm sure the vas sold because of His us open victory which is similar to the op question.

Right, 90% of amateurs buy with standard specs (including SL).  They don't have 71* lie angles and jumbo grips.  There is no doubt it will sell more SL irons, but its somewhat deceptive that those are the clubs he is actually playing with.  I get your point, which is that its just an adjustment of lie angle and grip size, but its a pretty big adjustment.
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#69 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:29 AM

View Postrawdog, on 12 June 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.

Would it be a stretch to say Cobra SL irons would not exist if not for Bryson?

I mean, there was always the Pinhawk, Wishon, etc niche, but he is the poster boy for the SL concept, for better or worse.

Sure, the extreme lie angles and JumboMax grips are odd, but both have been done before on tour. Notah Begay and Ray Floyd have been noted as having extreme lie angles. Kelly Craft plays JumboMax. To me, playing a LW that is 37.25 inches is more bizarre than either of those, but that's obviously subjective.

Toss in an element of "see, I told you it works", and there ya go. I got more than a few texts last weekend when he won. I only play 65* lie angles though, a midsize grips. May have to go Jumbo if I want to win on tour...

PS, you left out the single plane swing :D

My post was more in line with the OP and moving more SL clubs out the door.  It will definitely move more SL clubs, its just a bit misleading given how weird his setup is in general and how normal the stock SL sets are.  As you know I've played SL, and once you get used to it feels pretty normal.  Bryson is way out there.
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#70 rawdog

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:36 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 12 June 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

It has nothing to do with SL.  Its annoying that people think Bryson's SL and the Cobra SL have anything at all to do with each other.  If you read this thread, you'd think Bryson was wierd because he plays SL.  Not so.

He plays his clubs with a 71* lie angle and massive jumbo grips (like bicycle pump size).  Those two things are WAY more out there than SL.

It would be as if I won the NBA Finals at 7'5" and three arms shooting a set shot and everyone is like "see, told you the set shot works".  Bryson's set isn't the Cobra SL set you buy.  The Cobra SL set is just a regular set cut to the same length.  You can almost certainly hit both equally well.  You give up speed in the long irons for contact.  Some people that's good, some it isn't.

But Bryson's set is WAY wierder than SL, yet that is never talked about.  That's why when the SL people come out of the woodwork after he wins its annoying.

Would it be a stretch to say Cobra SL irons would not exist if not for Bryson?

I mean, there was always the Pinhawk, Wishon, etc niche, but he is the poster boy for the SL concept, for better or worse.

Sure, the extreme lie angles and JumboMax grips are odd, but both have been done before on tour. Notah Begay and Ray Floyd have been noted as having extreme lie angles. Kelly Craft plays JumboMax. To me, playing a LW that is 37.25 inches is more bizarre than either of those, but that's obviously subjective.

Toss in an element of "see, I told you it works", and there ya go. I got more than a few texts last weekend when he won. I only play 65* lie angles though, a midsize grips. May have to go Jumbo if I want to win on tour...

PS, you left out the single plane swing :D

My post was more in line with the OP and moving more SL clubs out the door.  It will definitely move more SL clubs, its just a bit misleading given how weird his setup is in general and how normal the stock SL sets are.  As you know I've played SL, and once you get used to it feels pretty normal.  Bryson is way out there.

True, the general public doesn't know the whole story of his setup. And yes, he is way out there in more ways that one. Did you know he taught himself how to stipple paint?

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#71 Tava woods

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:36 AM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 06 June 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Cobra claims 60%+ of their sales are single length.  All last year when I worked at a big box store I think we sold 4 sets.  Lots of interest, absolutely!  I will give credit to Cobra there, they definitely were able to generate a lot of buzz.  However, most people don't want to hit chest-high 4, 5, and 6 irons that run out 40 yards and all carry about 6 yards longer than a 7i does.  I tried a set, and I have the same issues everyone else is having with them.  The long irons fly too low, and the short irons are well...just short.  They don't go anywhere.  I swear I've lost a full club going to these and encroaching on two clubs in my 9i and PW.  I've tried ball position too.

They are fun to bring out once and a while, but to keep as a staple in the bag?  No chance.  There is a reason the EQL failed some 25-30 years ago.  There is a reason literally no other company is doing it.  Remember the Wilson Fat Shaft?  Wilson guys were all over it proclaiming it to be the next god-tier innovation in golf.  Even Wilson admits it was a terrible design and wants to kill it with fire.  I give Cobra two more years with the SL idea before it disappears completely.

As for Bryson, he didn't exactly win the tournament in dominating fashion.  The guy is really good, but he's a headcase that got lucky.  Nobody challenged him at all on Sunday, while he blasted driver all over the planet (at 43" mind you...), and had some of the laziest attempts at birdie I've seen in a long time.  He coasted his way into the club house when it was ripe for a massive run.  If Justin Rose, J.B. Holmes, Niemann, Fowler, or Woods had caught a little fire on the front run and posted a -2 to -4 early to get them to around the -14 number early, Bryson would have puked and probably shot +2 or +3.  All he had to contend with was watching Cantlay be slow.
  I think you are being a little hard on A PGA tour winner. Many never win on tour so lucky or not he deserves a little respect. You may be PGA tour caliber and completely qualified to judge a young man playing and winning at professional golf if so I retract my statement.

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#72 SecondandGoal

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:55 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Obviously.  I wasn't speaking literally.  The clubs you buy in the store called Cobra SL are closer to Cobra VL than they are to Bryson's was my point.  Obviously I didn't literally mean that you just cut VL clubs to the same length to make SL clubs.

Actually, it wasn't obvious.
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#73 rjr25

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:00 PM

I bought a brand new set (f7) for cheap money to try this season and I have enjoyed them. I easily am hitting better 5-7 irons than before (I already hit the ball high, so no height or distance issues). My 8-PW game is about the same. I am struggling mightily with the GW so went back to VL there. And I was already continuing to play my VL wedges.

There was definitely a mental adjustment to swinging the same with every club (stance, tempo, etc) but the more I have played the better I have gotten. This for sure is not a try it one time and decide method. You need to put in some work. I find transitioning to the longer woods/hybrids and shorter wedges a non issue, but then again I am not a solid wedge player by any means.

Overall have my scores improved? Not really. I find myself hitting more GIR but that is also a product of being pretty consistent with my driver this year. My big letdown is the shortgame and SL isnt going to make up for that. But I have more confidence over the long irons than ever before and the piece of mind has been worth it so far knowing I just have "one" swing to make with the irons. In the near term I am going to ride it out (and probably get fitted for a set vs the off the rack) and see where it goes.
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#74 cmckelvmi

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:27 PM

I don't think Bryson gets all of the credit, but I purchase a set of F7 one length irons last week. Bryson probably solidified my research and helped my confidence in thinking it was a good idea. Coincidentally my first round with them helped me score my best round at my home course by two strokes. It is still an adjustment getting used to the longer wedges. I feel like I have to learn my feels around chipping and pitching all over again. I didn't like the idea that the set was only 5-GW so I got the King utility black one length 2/3 iron to accompany the standard set.

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#75 bluedot

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:13 PM

View PostEvoIX, on 11 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of people hate SL and have never hit them. They say it’d be weird hitting a wedge or 5-iron at 7-iron length but haven’t actually tried it. I thought the same thing and was blown away when I hit them. It didn’t feel weird at all. And in my experience the 5-iron flew lower than usual but not head height like some people have mentioned.

I don't think there has been much "hate SL" going on in the thread.  I think there have been a lot of people who, for one reason or the other, just can't wrap their head around either the concept of 6 or 7 iron length wedges, or a reasonable, affordable way to put together a set.  That's not hating; those are real issues.


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#76 danmurph

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder

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#77 nohny noke

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:50 PM

View Postdanmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder

Now that's an interesting question - what percentage of the population would be larger: those that could be scratch golfers or those that could be adequate rocket scientists?

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#78 Snowman9000

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 06:10 PM

I'm absolutely sure I could have become a rocket scientist had I wanted.  I'm about as sure I couldn't have become a scratch golfer. :)

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#79 I'd rather be golfing

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM

View Postdanmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

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#80 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:36 PM

View PostI, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

View Postdanmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

Statistically speaking, making a living playing golf is WAY harder than as a rocket scientist. You have to be one of the best 1200 or so in the world to earn a great living at Golf. There’s that many rocket scientists working at NASA alone, not to mention the universities around the world.

It’s not close. Golf is way harder.

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#81 I'd rather be golfing

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:35 PM

 pinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

 danmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

Statistically speaking, making a living playing golf is WAY harder than as a rocket scientist. You have to be one of the best 1200 or so in the world to earn a great living at Golf. There’s that many rocket scientists working at NASA alone, not to mention the universities around the world.

It’s not close. Golf is way harder.
Comparing to world renown rocket scientist to world renown pro golfers and lets not forget the LPGA also, oh and the web, oh and also all the teachers. Yeah, your stats are off for sure. Can you honestly name 1200 world renown rocket scientist? I highly doubt it. I’m sure you can probably pull up 1200 PGA, LPGA, and semi pro golfers, and teachers that make a living off of golf. Anybody can say they golf or is a part of golf. But can anyone say they are a rocket scientist? Honestly, when have you heard someone tell they are a rocket scientist?

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#82 phatchrisrules

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:29 AM

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

 pinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

 danmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

Statistically speaking, making a living playing golf is WAY harder than as a rocket scientist. You have to be one of the best 1200 or so in the world to earn a great living at Golf. There’s that many rocket scientists working at NASA alone, not to mention the universities around the world.

It’s not close. Golf is way harder.
Comparing to world renown rocket scientist to world renown pro golfers and lets not forget the LPGA also, oh and the web, oh and also all the teachers. Yeah, your stats are off for sure. Can you honestly name 1200 world renown rocket scientist? I highly doubt it. I’m sure you can probably pull up 1200 PGA, LPGA, and semi pro golfers, and teachers that make a living off of golf. Anybody can say they golf or is a part of golf. But can anyone say they are a rocket scientist? Honestly, when have you heard someone tell they are a rocket scientist?

I know several rocket scientists and I am a PhD student in Anthropology.  Not even close to the same field.  I know zero pro golfers.  I don't even personally know any golfers that are better than a +1 and they wouldn't even sniff it on the Hooters tour.  You're wrong on this.  It's a lot easier to become "smart" than it is to become so physically gifted at muscle memory and timing that you can hit an inch wide ball with a 3 inch wide blade perfectly in the middle every time with a dead square club face with masterful distance control and launch parameters allowing the ball to get closer to the hole significantly more on average.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 13 June 2018 - 06:32 AM.

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#83 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:04 AM

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

 pinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

 danmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

Statistically speaking, making a living playing golf is WAY harder than as a rocket scientist. You have to be one of the best 1200 or so in the world to earn a great living at Golf. There’s that many rocket scientists working at NASA alone, not to mention the universities around the world.

It’s not close. Golf is way harder.
Comparing to world renown rocket scientist to world renown pro golfers and lets not forget the LPGA also, oh and the web, oh and also all the teachers. Yeah, your stats are off for sure. Can you honestly name 1200 world renown rocket scientist? I highly doubt it. I’m sure you can probably pull up 1200 PGA, LPGA, and semi pro golfers, and teachers that make a living off of golf. Anybody can say they golf or is a part of golf. But can anyone say they are a rocket scientist? Honestly, when have you heard someone tell they are a rocket scientist?

You added "world renown".  That wasn't in the original statement.  Teachers don't earn a living playing golf they earn a living teaching golf (or running a shop).

Sorry charlie, you're way off here.  Rocket scientists is blah compared to someone who can actually earn a living playing golf.  Being a rocket scientist is just trying really hard over a long period of time.  Being a great golfer is also trying hard over a really long period of time and then shutting off that trying hard when your body thinks it needs to try the hardest.

Its not close man.  Rocket scientist is easy compared to tour player.
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#84 bluedot

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:19 AM

I get the concept of SL clubs, I really do.  I don't get how to put together a set of SL clubs as good, as fitted to me, or as versatile as what I currently play.  I just can't get around that problem.

I'll also mention this once again:  It's sort of a law of sports, ALL sports, that what you see elite professionals doing may not translate to what average, everyday amateurs are doing.  And when you see a professional athlete doing something that other professional athletes aren't doing, then you really have to think about the question of correlation without causation.

There are a lot of examples of guys that you just can't use as models for what is best.  Nolan Ryan was a genetic freak.  Gary Sheffield had to curl his bat back over his head to slow it down so he didn't hit foul balls out of the stadium before they were even with third base.  I read Tom Brady's book about exercise and nutrition, and it's really, really good, but Brady ain't doing what he's doing at age 40 because of smoothies.  Lebron James, like Herschel Walker, is just different.  I could go on and on, but you get the idea.  Even other pro athletes can't replicate those guys.

What Dechambeau is doing works great for him, or at the very least doesn't seem to be holding him back.  But it MAY be that he needs the mental piece of unique clubs and unique ways of swinging them more that the clubs or the swing itself.  He's a different cat, and I'm just not sure that what he is doing necessarily translates to Joe Sixpack.

When I see other pros do this, or even some elite amateurs in my area, or when Ping or Titleist have SL clubs on the fitting carts, then I'll be more interested.  I'm mildly interested now, like I was with Natural Golf and Moe Norman.  And that may be the exact trajectory that the SL thing follows.

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#85 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:28 AM

LOL, SL to Rocket Science in 3 pages...

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#86 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:32 AM

 bluedot, on 13 June 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

I get the concept of SL clubs, I really do.  I don't get how to put together a set of SL clubs as good, as fitted to me, or as versatile as what I currently play.  I just can't get around that problem.

I'll also mention this once again:  It's sort of a law of sports, ALL sports, that what you see elite professionals doing may not translate to what average, everyday amateurs are doing.  And when you see a professional athlete doing something that other professional athletes aren't doing, then you really have to think about the question of correlation without causation.

There are a lot of examples of guys that you just can't use as models for what is best.  Nolan Ryan was a genetic freak.  Gary Sheffield had to curl his bat back over his head to slow it down so he didn't hit foul balls out of the stadium before they were even with third base.  I read Tom Brady's book about exercise and nutrition, and it's really, really good, but Brady ain't doing what he's doing at age 40 because of smoothies.  Lebron James, like Herschel Walker, is just different.  I could go on and on, but you get the idea.  Even other pro athletes can't replicate those guys.

What Dechambeau is doing works great for him, or at the very least doesn't seem to be holding him back.  But it MAY be that he needs the mental piece of unique clubs and unique ways of swinging them more that the clubs or the swing itself.  He's a different cat, and I'm just not sure that what he is doing necessarily translates to Joe Sixpack.

When I see other pros do this, or even some elite amateurs in my area, or when Ping or Titleist have SL clubs on the fitting carts, then I'll be more interested.  I'm mildly interested now, like I was with Natural Golf and Moe Norman.  And that may be the exact trajectory that the SL thing follows.

I've posted this in other threads on SL, but the biggest issue with it is that it doesn't really matter for score.  Most bad players think a golf score is 36 perfect swings, which isn't right.  So it might your contact more consistent, but if you still think like a 15 cap (don't pay attention to your setup, don't pick a target, don't think about how to get around the course, not particularly fast, worry about what others are thinking about you while you play, steer your putts, etc...) you'll be a 15 cap no matter how long your irons are.

So its not that I don't think SL can really help some people with contact issues make better contact its that I think most players have no idea what's actually holding them back (and it ain't mechanics, which is what SL helps).  One guy I play with loves golf, just loves it. He will probably try SL at some point, and god bless him. But unless he stops aiming 30 degrees right on every shot while his ball position is all over the map it won't matter.

I think SL can help some people play golf swing a whole lot better.  Better golf?  Not so sure.  If you are a pretty decent player and its the swing holding you back (which is not many people) then they can be a powerful tool.  But most people will still just hover over the ball for two minutes thinking about god knows what and then hit a huge slice/block trying to scoop the ball off the ground because their aim isn't even close to correct.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 13 June 2018 - 07:38 AM.

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#87 I'd rather be golfing

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

 pinestreetgolf, on 13 June 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

 pinestreetgolf, on 12 June 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

 I, on 12 June 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

 danmurph, on 12 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

No. Not a fan of Bryson at all. Do not like the way he goes about his business. This is golf not rocket science. And golf is a helluva lot harder
Really? Golf is a lot harder then being a rocket science? How could you possibly understand Bryson’s way of thought. If you think golf is a lot easier then being a rocket scientist.

Statistically speaking, making a living playing golf is WAY harder than as a rocket scientist. You have to be one of the best 1200 or so in the world to earn a great living at Golf. There’s that many rocket scientists working at NASA alone, not to mention the universities around the world.

It’s not close. Golf is way harder.
Comparing to world renown rocket scientist to world renown pro golfers and lets not forget the LPGA also, oh and the web, oh and also all the teachers. Yeah, your stats are off for sure. Can you honestly name 1200 world renown rocket scientist? I highly doubt it. I’m sure you can probably pull up 1200 PGA, LPGA, and semi pro golfers, and teachers that make a living off of golf. Anybody can say they golf or is a part of golf. But can anyone say they are a rocket scientist? Honestly, when have you heard someone tell they are a rocket scientist?

You added "world renown".  That wasn't in the original statement.  Teachers don't earn a living playing golf they earn a living teaching golf (or running a shop).

Sorry charlie, you're way off here.  Rocket scientists is blah compared to someone who can actually earn a living playing golf.  Being a rocket scientist is just trying really hard over a long period of time.  Being a great golfer is also trying hard over a really long period of time and then shutting off that trying hard when your body thinks it needs to try the hardest.

Its not close man.  Rocket scientist is easy compared to tour player.
Ok I was trying to compare pro to pro. Anyone can be a rocket scientist just like anyone can be a pro golfer I guess. Let’s get back on topic. At least we both can agree on that.

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#88 rawdog

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:10 AM

The post saying golf "isn't rocket science" then saying it's harder is idiocracy.

The phrase "it isn't rocket science" is traditionally used to say a task isn't that difficult. It implies easiness or simplicity. So to follow that statement up with "it's a helluva lot harder" makes zero sense.
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#89 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:53 AM

 rawdog, on 13 June 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

The post saying golf "isn't rocket science" then saying it's harder is idiocracy.

The phrase "it isn't rocket science" is traditionally used to say a task isn't that difficult. It implies easiness or simplicity. So to follow that statement up with "it's a helluva lot harder" makes zero sense.

Right, its much harder than something easy or simple.  Hence, "its harder than something that isn't rocket science" means that golf is harder than something easy i.e. its not easy.

Come on man, understanding how these phrases work isn't rocket science.  Wait...
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#90 disco111

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:58 AM

In answer to what bluedot eluded to, as far as what pro's do. Well the OEM's latched on to that freight train many, many moons ago and joe sixpack has bought into that con job hook line and sinker. Moe's natural golf had it's time share in the public eye and some remnants still remain in today's game. Humans are / will always be looking for something easier / simpler / better and if it worked for one, it could / should work for other's. SL irons seemingly work for some folks, as testament from other threads. But it's not for everybody.

Now for pinestreetgolf. I agree with the assessment that bad set ups will not make a good player. That part of the equation must be rectified, for any and all aspects of the golf swing to work correctly. But there are plenty of players that have gone past that stage and desire better results from a decent swing. Can SL give that to them? Apparently it can from stated reports and again, SL is not for everybody. I remember a statement that Ben Hogan made........."In the course of a round of golf, if I hit 4 or 5 shots as I intended, the rest are all acceptable misses". If SL gives you a better swing, then yes, that's better golf. At least IMO................  
















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