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* * * * - 8 votes

The Open @ Carnoustie (NO POLITICS)


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#61 iBanesto

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:26 AM

Great to see Retief Goosen qualify for the Open.

https://www.golfdige...inal-qualifying


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#62 JD3

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.
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#63 iteachgolf

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn’t close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.

Edited by iteachgolf, 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM.


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#64 JD3

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:13 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn’t close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.
Padrick followed up his 07' win at the Open by winning it again the following year. In 08' he also won the PGA. For that span no one was better in the majors.
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#65 Cwing

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:15 PM

Rain ball and my ball about 5-6 ft from hole at Carnoustie in August 2014.

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Edited by Cwing, 04 July 2018 - 07:17 PM.

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#66 Sean2

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:16 PM

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn't close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.
Padrick followed up his 07' win at the Open by winning it again the following year. In 08' he also won the PGA. For that span no one was better in the majors.

And after that, he thought it was a good idea to make a swing change...
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#67 JD3

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:47 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn’t close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.
Padrick followed up his 07' win at the Open by winning it again the following year. In 08' he also won the PGA. For that span no one was better in the majors.

Tiger played 6 majors during that period, and finished top 2 in 5/6.  Had 2 wins, 3 second place finishes and a worst finish of 12th.  Harrington had a T36, T42, and missed cut.  Tiger beat Harrington in every single one of those majors except for 1.  Tiger was easily better in majors in 2007-2008
Actually tiger would say winning was all that mattered, so by his own thinking padrick was better. Makes sense too...who really cares about some vague notion of weighted average performance. Only thing history cares about is who won. And for that 2-year span, padrick came away with the most major trophies.

Edited by JD3, 04 July 2018 - 07:48 PM.

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#68 bunter101

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:42 PM

Played in the Tassie a few times so 'know' the course fairly well. Much more enjoyable watching a tournament when you know what you are looking at.

Ralphy, how is the rough going? It looks like it's a bit thick at the bottom?

Lovely pic of 15 too. My favourite hole of the less heralded holes.
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#69 btmoney

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 09:12 PM

View Postsmashdn, on 02 July 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

View Postpendodave, on 02 July 2018 - 04:37 AM, said:

It already looks pretty crispy and there's no rain forecast for the next week or two. Shades of Hoylake??

*(I posted this below on another thread but it has gotten no traction so I copied and pasted it here)


I was reading a weather report for here in the States and it mentioned the current heat wave for the UK (albeit the temps are not what we would consider a heat wave here, I am sure they are unpleasant).  IT got me to thinking about The Open and the conditions.

I was hoping it would be like concrete and some of the "un-fair" -ness of the US Open would make a showing and the pros would be playing approaches well short of the greens and actually using the ground. (I don't believe in fair and unfair.)

I am a little disappointed to hear of the green nature of the course and I hope they do go through and bake her out nice and crispy.  I want to see a fast, hard-running course.  Brown is beautiful.

We can't seem to process that grass can get yellow and tan and brown and not die.  And perhaps even play better in those conditions than flush green.

Welcome to the Augusta effect

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#70 MattyO1984

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 01:45 AM

View Postbunter101, on 04 July 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

So what if Tiger wasn't in the field, not Padraigs fault Tiger was a crap commando!

Lawrie a hack......  Shoots 67 On the toughest day at the toughest set up in memory... yeah a hack!
Won the four hole playoff by three shots...must have hacked it round well......

Yeah imagining birding 17 and 18 at Carnoustie to win the Open. Should have at least went eagle eagle.

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#71 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 01:58 AM

To everyone worrying about the course being too green. Check out this aerial picture I found on twitter. I did not take this picture. I just shamelessly stole it. Credit goes to @captainrbgs

https://i.imgur.com/o4GOkae.jpg

Edited by Ralphyboy84, 05 July 2018 - 01:59 AM.


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#72 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 02:02 AM

View Postbunter101, on 04 July 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

Played in the Tassie a few times so 'know' the course fairly well. Much more enjoyable watching a tournament when you know what you are looking at.

Ralphy, how is the rough going? It looks like it's a bit thick at the bottom?

Lovely pic of 15 too. My favourite hole of the less heralded holes.

The rough was really bad about 6 weeks ago. Probably as bad as I’ve seen it in years. Due to the lack of rain tho it’s started to dry out a bit and wasn’t quite as thick. Hopefully now the course is shut and they’re not watering the fairways they are spending there time watering the rough!

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#73 iBanesto

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 02:30 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn't close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.

Harrington was ranked 10 in the world entering into the 2007 Open with previous years ranked higher. So I would say Harrington was one of the best players in the world.

Edited by iBanesto, 05 July 2018 - 02:30 AM.


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#74 Bingo1976

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:18 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 05 July 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn't close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.

Harrington was ranked 10 in the world entering into the 2007 Open with previous years ranked higher. So I would say Harrington was one of the best players in the world.

So worst case Padraig was 2nd best after You Know Who

I think we all agree that changing your swing after 3 majors in 5 starts may not have been the best move though!
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#75 iBanesto

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:32 AM

View PostBingo1976, on 05 July 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

View PostiBanesto, on 05 July 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn't close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.

Harrington was ranked 10 in the world entering into the 2007 Open with previous years ranked higher. So I would say Harrington was one of the best players in the world.

So worst case Padraig was 2nd best after You Know Who

I think we all agree that changing your swing after 3 majors in 5 starts may not have been the best move though!

Harrington is a tinkerer. He knows that.

In an interview with Feherty, he said it is in his nature to always be changing with the objective of getting better.


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#76 iBanesto

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:37 AM

https://www.irishgol...is-trigger.html

Quote

Outlining the biggest changes, Harrington explained:
  • “I changed the actual grips on my golf club. Most people would think ‘well, what’s that’. I have a reminder in my grip – I’ve taken it out. I’ve gone to round grips. That’s a big, big change.
  • “I’ve knocked all the clubs a degree flat – that’s a little change.
  • “I have weakened my grip, lowered my hands a bit and pushed them a bit further forward … small things.
  • “Probably the biggest one (and this is partly why I’ve changed these other things), I’ve changed my trigger to take the club away in my routine. I used take the club away from a moving position. I now take the club away from a static position.
  • “Part of that, I used to have a big squat to take the club away, so that’s gone. There’s a little one. I’d love to get it all gone but it’s hard to change your trigger, full stop.
  • “I’m taking the club away without my hips so there’s a much smaller hip turn – a much bigger coil but a smaller hip turn.
  • “Obviously, that changes my plane in the back swing.
  • “I’ve changed my chin position at the top of my backswing.  I used to try and swing my shoulder under my chin, so I’d poke my head out to do it, which we think has contributed to my neck issues. So now I’m tucking my head in at the top of my backswing.
  • “The trigger probably is the biggest thing. Through impact I’m going back to squatting quite a bit at the start of my downswing, as I used to. So I’m going back to that.
  • “I’m going back to trying to get my chest more down through impact to get my hands lower through impact and reduce the lateral through impact.
  • “From seven feet out I probably was 150th in every putting stat so I’ve changed my putting routine as well.
  • “I’m not standing off the ball when I’m taking my practice putts. I’m practice putting over the ball … when you see a raw beginner, they often do that. When they take a practice putt, they lift it up and do it over the top of the ball. I’m doing that so when I put the putter back down, I’m not adjusting anything. I used to line up and get a feel for the putt, which you see a lot of guys do, then I’d take the putter inside an try a practice putt. But when I take the putter inside, I move my eye line, so the practice putts I’m getting a feel for are not the same as the putts I actually have. So I’m not changing my eye line.

Edited by iBanesto, 05 July 2018 - 04:39 AM.


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#77 OldTomMorris

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:22 AM

One thing I'm interested to see is how many of the field will be up for the challenge mentally, you are going to get some crazy run/bounces of the ball when its this dry and lot of players may not like it.

Interesting chat with Andrew Coltart prior to round 1 of the Irish he was hearing on the player rumour mill that a number of players were complaining it was unfair that you couldn't stop the ball. Coltart reckons if thats the attitude you have no chance of winning.
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#78 beluga99

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:39 AM

View PostOldTomMorris, on 05 July 2018 - 05:22 AM, said:

One thing I'm interested to see is how many of the field will be up for the challenge mentally, you are going to get some crazy run/bounces of the ball when its this dry and lot of players may not like it.

Interesting chat with Andrew Coltart prior to round 1 of the Irish he was hearing on the player rumour mill that a number of players were complaining it was unfair that you couldn't stop the ball. Coltart reckons if thats the attitude you have no chance of winning.

Rahm and Dechambeau strike me as two players who may struggle with "unfair bounces".  I love the fact that players have to adapt to the conditions.
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#79 Singapore Joe

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:00 AM

View Postbeluga99, on 05 July 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

View PostOldTomMorris, on 05 July 2018 - 05:22 AM, said:

One thing I'm interested to see is how many of the field will be up for the challenge mentally, you are going to get some crazy run/bounces of the ball when its this dry and lot of players may not like it.

Interesting chat with Andrew Coltart prior to round 1 of the Irish he was hearing on the player rumour mill that a number of players were complaining it was unfair that you couldn't stop the ball. Coltart reckons if thats the attitude you have no chance of winning.

Rahm and Dechambeau strike me as two players who may struggle with "unfair bounces".  I love the fact that players have to adapt to the conditions.
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#80 imakaveli

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:33 AM

The difference four months can make!

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#81 sekrah

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:48 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 04 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 04 July 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Other than that hack Lawrie, course seems to favor the best player of that time, over several eras.

The Open Championship
2007 – Padraig Harrington.
1999 – Paul Lawrie.
1975 – Tom Watson.
1968 – Gary Player.
1953 – Ben Hogan.
1937 – Henry Cotton.
1931 – Tommy Armour.

Harrington wasn't close to the best player of that time.  And Lawrie has had a decent career.

Harrington wasn't the best player of that era, but he was definitely playing at a pretty high level.  He was 10th OWGR entering The Open, and then won The Open and PGA the next year year, reaching 3rd on the rankings.  To say "He wasn't close to best player of that time" is patently false.  He battled in that tier of players right behind Tiger Woods.

Lawrie was 159th in the world when he won.

Edited by sekrah, 05 July 2018 - 07:53 AM.


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#82 Shilgy

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:15 AM

Gary Player wasn't the best of his era either then. Neither were Cotton and Armour.  Add an "s" and say Carnoustie favors the best players of an era except Lawrie?
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#83 Sean2

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:21 AM

I am watching the Irish Open, and that course is proving to be quite a test, and the weather is perfect today...sunshine, hardly any wind. I can't imagine what Carnoustie will be like.
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#84 JD3

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

View PostShilgy, on 05 July 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

Gary Player wasn't the best of his era either then. Neither were Cotton and Armour.  Add an "s" and say Carnoustie favors the best players of an era except Lawrie?
Fine with me, but Maybe for some meaningful stretch like padrick he was though. Idk don't want to go thru the history books to find out lol...but Player is one of only 4 career grand slam winners in the modern era, so it's quite possible he was. Not some one hit wonder like Lawrie, that's for sure.
And no I dont accept the argument you only outperformed a guy in victories because he was on the DL...you can only play against who shows up. If I guy isn't healthy enough to tee it up, then by definition anyone in the field is already ahead of him.
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#85 Jimmy Mac

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 12:27 PM

I'll be at Carnoustie for Sunday's round. Then in St Andrews Monday/Tuesday to see practice rounds for the Senior Open.

Any advice for a first-time visitor to Carnoustie / The Open? Great viewing locations? Things not to miss?


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#86 c7015

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 03:50 PM

I think a few are took the post too literally, can we agree Carnoustie historically identifies a great champion.

I think it's a pretty cool thread that does not need to be driven into the ground with TW vs the world.

Edited by c7015, 05 July 2018 - 07:36 PM.

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#87 MattyO1984

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:43 PM

View PostOldTomMorris, on 05 July 2018 - 05:22 AM, said:

One thing I'm interested to see is how many of the field will be up for the challenge mentally, you are going to get some crazy run/bounces of the ball when its this dry and lot of players may not like it.

Interesting chat with Andrew Coltart prior to round 1 of the Irish he was hearing on the player rumour mill that a number of players were complaining it was unfair that you couldn't stop the ball. Coltart reckons if thats the attitude you have no chance of winning.

Coltart is absolutely correct. Does it being firm and bouncy make it more difficult, yes but does it make it unfair? Not at all. You just have to golf your ball in a different way.
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#88 MattyO1984

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:47 PM

View PostJimmy Mac, on 05 July 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'll be at Carnoustie for Sunday's round. Then in St Andrews Monday/Tuesday to see practice rounds for the Senior Open.

Any advice for a first-time visitor to Carnoustie / The Open? Great viewing locations? Things not to miss?

For me, Carnoustie is much better as a spectator than the Old Course. At the Old Course you are stuck on the outside constantly and it has hard to see the greens because the ropes are so far away. Also as it is pretty much goes all the way out from the 1st to 7th before the loop and then coming all the way back on 12th to 18th it is hard to get caught up on too much.

Carnoustie is much more self contained. The 8th and 9th are the furthest out the Championship course goes and it still surprises me how close you are to the hotel. If you can, get behind the 6th tee. It is really cool to see how the Pro's take that shot on.
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#89 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:28 PM

Yup won’t be able to get behind the 6th tee. There’s a lot of really good grandstands though that cover a few holes. There’s one behind the 3rd tee that also shows you the 5th green and 6th tee. There’s a good one on the 8th that shows approach shots into 7, all of 8 and tee shots on 13. Then there’s one on 13 that lets you see the 12th and 13th green.

In my opinion it’s a great course for spectating on

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#90 c7015

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:37 PM

View Postc7015, on 05 July 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

I think a few are took the post too literally, can we agree Carnoustie historically identifies a great champion.

I think it's a pretty cool thread that does not need to be driven into the ground with TW vs the world.

So few questions

As a member what hole is your personal nemesis?

We have had a few LPGA tournaments at our course and it's always fun to see them play the course and witness their nuanced strategy.

Are you going to try and get in the ropes (standard bearer etc)

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