934 replies to this topic

[ChronicSlicer]

marmooskapaul, on 28 January 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Some hobbies are more time involved than others. Went ice fishing last night...load car with gear..put on clothes and boots..make sure I got bait..battery's charged..drive to lake, drag gear 1/2 mile out on lake...drill holes in the ice..catch fish..load gear back up..drag back to car..drive home..unload gear and put battery's on charge..undress..fillet 25 bluegills..clean up mess and take shower..whewww!!! But...the thing is, I can't wait to go again this week!!

Golf is kind of like that too...lol.

Walmart is heated, and they sell fish as well. Although you may still need to shower after a trip there...

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[Tim Schoch]

If you're going to Walmart to find your country club fellows, you won't bump into them there.  Otherwise you will find great prices and surprisingly high quality.  It is nothing like the K-mart (or Fart Mart as we called it) of years gone by.

Golf is niche.  Rich niche. It began at the grassroots level, so many of those tracks still exist, but its niche value lies in the country clubs, club fitters, and schools where where golf is still a society.

[elwhippy]

Looking at all the price hikes for 2019 irons is making me think if I was not a Golfer already I wouldn't take the game up. £150 an iron, for steel shafts is a rip off. I would love to see the profit margin. Wages are not going up at the same rate as clubs are.

[Bingo1976]

Bad9, on 28 January 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

Golf always has been a niche thing, it’s probably been more widespread in the last 20yrs than it ever had been. Part of wha5 is happening is a return to its traditional niche.

I honestly don't think it's niche - it's played by 25 million people in the US, 60 million worldwide. It's consistently in the top 10 of any result where you google most popular sports.

[PedronNiall]

elwhippy, on 28 January 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

Looking at all the price hikes for 2019 irons is making me think if I was not a Golfer already I wouldn't take the game up. £150 an iron, for steel shafts is a rip off. I would love to see the profit margin. Wages are not going up at the same rate as clubs are.

Others have pointed out that adjusting for inflation and the like iron sets are still less than they were in the past. The issue now is that there are a lot of other things competing for those dollars and a lot fewer people have any type of truly disposable income. Even most people who can splurge on things like going to the movies, on weekend trips here and there, out to eat somewhat regularly, etc., are only one medical bill, major car/home repair, tuition spike, etc., away from having to give up most of their leisure activities.

That £150 price tag would actually look even less daunting than the comparable price in the late 90s to early 2000s when wages were up vs cost of living if those conditions still existed now. It hurts more because the margin for most is tighter than ever and actually upside down for many.

[bblack_91240]

See for me, I guess I’m hooked and I prioritize it differently. I’d rather play a round of golf than spend $10/person on a movie ticket. In a few months it’ll be on demand for less anyway. With young kids, weekend trips aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. It’s easier to get away for a 5-6hr round of golf than it is to leave for the weekend with or without kids. I get it though, my priorities are different. I already love the game!

I think I said it in here before, too, as far as buying equipment goes there will always be people that buy new clubs like there are people that buy new cars. For me, I’ll buy that year end leftover that performs just about as good if not exactly the same for a fraction of the price. I bargain shopped my way to a whole new bag last season with premium shafts, the latest offerings, barely used clubs and I’m not even close to half of what it would’ve all cost new. Is it still a lot of money? My wife definitely thinks so! But it’s all relative. You can get into the game for much less than I spent. When you start, you should probably buy a cheap couple hundred dollar starter set anyway. All sports are expensive nowadays. My sister played on traveling soccer teams growing up and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on tournaments every weekend of every month. The difference is she doesn’t still play soccer like I still play golf sooooo I think that means I win! Lol

Edited by bblack_91240, 29 January 2019 - 09:26 PM.

[Jwink1586]

Pace of Play. There are many times I will not finish a round because it looks like it will be a 6 hour round.

[Jackrwesty]

1- the stupid itty bitty rules of golf , those should NOT apply for the weekend golfer , annoys me every weekend when you see someone giving someone a hard time for taking a little blade of grass out of the bunker, or fixing a cleat mark(I know rules changed this year) or stuff on that line...

2- buying a bucket of range balls is a minimum $10... Ridiculous !!!! Now places are charging people to use the 'chipping' green ????? Really ?
I can walk on for $5-15 and play a full round instead (if I had the time) or could go to the batting cages and hit there for an hour for a few bucks ...

[nsxguy]

Jackrwesty, on 05 February 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

1- the stupid itty bitty rules of golf , those should NOT apply for the weekend golfer , annoys me every weekend when you see someone giving someone a hard time for taking a little blade of grass out of the bunker, or fixing a cleat mark(I know rules changed this year) or stuff on that line...

I seriously doubt ANYONE is not playing golf because of the "stupid itty bitty rules".

Define "weekend golfer". If you mean the casual golfer who doesn't keep a handicap, who cares ?

You posted a 6 handicap Does this mean your handicap is not a valid one ?

If you don't play in any formal competitions then who cares what rules you play by ?

Quote

2- buying a bucket of range balls is a minimum $10... Ridiculous !!!! Now places are charging people to use the 'chipping' green ????? Really ?
I can walk on for $5-15 and play a full round instead (if I had the time) or could go to the batting cages and hit there for an hour for a few bucks ...

Cost ? OK, I can certainly buy "cost" but walk on per $5-$15 ??? Where ? At Fred's Goat Track and Country Club ? Can one play MINIATURE golf for $15 nowadays ? A batting cage for an hour "for a few bucks" ? Hyperbole much ?

[MelloYello]

I would agree that the costs associated with practicing can be a deterrent in some scenarios. It probably depends on where you go.

The range I used to go to raised their rates and even stopped manning the shop area once they had an automated ball machine outside. It went from $10 for the jumbo bucket to like $18 which definitely limits how much practice you can afford over the course of a week. If you plan on being at the range working on every element of your game you might end up spending a lot that way.

Anyone hoping to get better really needs to be on some sort of membership that affords unlimited practice and good walking rates.

That said, more courses are getting better about doing range packages or less deals that accommodate the casual player during weekdays or in the slower periods.

Edited by MelloYello, 05 February 2019 - 02:16 PM.

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[new2g0lf]

When I played racquetball I bought a lot of different racquets, e-Force, Head, Ektelon, Wilson released new racquets every 6 months to a year just like golf equipment.  There was always promise of something better in the new racquet, shoe or ball.  Take a look at the running shoe  market, how many brands, models etc.  If you're heavily involved in a hobby and have some disposable income you can waste a lot of money in any hobby.  

No one "has" to buy a new driver, woods and irons every year, fact is there isn't that much difference year to year.  I'd guess you could go at least 5 years with minimal impact to your score or distance, some of us just like buying the latest and greatest, but it's not a requirement.

IMO People are walking away from the game (if that is even true) because over the last 30 years the role of the man has changed.  Men in my dads generation (77 years old) went to work, they had minimal involvement with raising kids except for sports, did minimal house work if any, didn't cook except for bbq on weekends and spent their evenings / weekends golfing, fishing or something else they wanted to do.  The men from that generation have increasing health issues or have passed and the men in later generations have a different set of priorities.  

There are financial factors as well, incomes have gone up minimally over the last 15 - 20 years reducing the households disposable income and in some cases forcing spouses to work,  adding to the responsibilities of men.  Kids sports are now incredibly time consuming, going year round and often requiring travel all over the state or worse.  

Ladies golf is slowly increasing in participation which is a positive.  Women like the social and health aspects of the game and view it as an opportunity to spend more time with the girls or their spouse and friends.  Good news for private clubs is they are becoming a driving force in membership gains and tee times.  

Money can be made a factor in anything we opt to do as a hobby but the reality is it will never truly stop someone from doing what they have a passion for but other factors might.

[uitar9]

I'm sitting here, reading the thread while I eat stew my wife made last night...delicious. Thats 5 meals for less than $15. She's out to a church function tonight, while I fry up some meatballs to make a sauce for the rest of the weeks lunchs (with store-bought gnocchi-cheap as borscht). I'll get 6-8 meals for $20.

The food is awesome. I do this while thinking about the approx. $5,000 I'll spend golfing this season and the $20  a week I spent this winter at the range. and...I've got the money to do it.

I could order in every meal every night (many do these days) and then complain about the cost of golf.

I have to make choices.

[sford31]

I blame video games

[andrue]

I don't think the price of equipment is an issue. Right now I can buy a set of clubs for £110. You can probably get clubs, trolley, shoes, couple of gloves, 50 lake balls and a bag of teas for less than £200. Sure it's crap stuff but for someone who's just curious about starting it's perfectly fine.

In the UK at least the cost of playing is hardly a big deal either. It's around £30 a round peak rate at most courses (as little as £10 twilight rate) and no need for membership at the vast majority of courses.

So starting to play is easy: ~£250 and just book a tee at your nearest golf course. You could be on the first tee the day after ordering if you went with next day delivery.

[BB28403]

Jwink1586, on 01 February 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:

Pace of Play. There are many times I will not finish a round because it looks like it will be a 6 hour round.

What’s days in the afternoon do you think are best to get a quick round in?

[platgof]

45 1/2" drivers plus ego!

[ChronicSlicer]

MelloYello, on 05 February 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

I would agree that the costs associated with practicing can be a deterrent in some scenarios. It probably depends on where you go.

The range I used to go to raised their rates and even stopped manning the shop area once they had an automated ball machine outside. It went from $10 for the jumbo bucket to like $18 which definitely limits how much practice you can afford over the course of a week. If you plan on being at the range working on every element of your game you might end up spending a lot that way.

Anyone hoping to get better really needs to be on some sort of membership that affords unlimited practice and good walking rates.

I agree with practice totally. It`s not easy to find a place where you can go and hit 50,100, 250yd shots for free, and not get yelled at for divoting up the place. I can go shoot hoops, play tennis, baseball, bocce ball, disc golf all for free at local parks. But I can`t go practice golf anywhere for free.

As for good walking rates, by reading this thread it sounds like courses should be offering better riding rates, due to long hours spent on the course.

[uitar9]

John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

[Jc0]

uitar9, on 10 February 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

Yes they are. Baseball is doing everything they can to speed up the game because they are loosing viewers. They are considering adding a pitch clock between pitches to speed things up.

Second thing about this. Pro baseball is 9 innings, amateur baseball plays 7. I don't understand why it seems like courses and the USGA won't embrace 9 holes. Most sports at the recreational level take 1-2 hours (tennis, basketball, softball, etc). Golf is the only that takes longer, but a 9 hole round would put it directly in line with every other recreational sport time wise.

Edited by Jc0, 10 February 2019 - 07:55 PM.

[marmooskapaul]

Jc0, on 10 February 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

uitar9, on 10 February 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

Yes they are. Baseball is doing everything they can to speed up the game because they are loosing viewers. They are considering adding a pitch clock between pitches to speed things up.

Second thing about this. Pro baseball is 9 innings, amateur baseball plays 7. I don't understand why it seems like courses and the USGA won't embrace 9 holes. Most sports at the recreational level take 1-2 hours (tennis, basketball, softball, etc). Golf is the only that takes longer, but a 9 hole round would put it directly in line with every other recreational sport time wise.

Can play nine holes on any course we play. That has always been an option...heck pay the nine hole rate and quit after 5 holes if you like.

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[BB28403]

 marmooskapaul, on 10 February 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

 Jc0, on 10 February 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

 uitar9, on 10 February 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

 John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

Yes they are. Baseball is doing everything they can to speed up the game because they are loosing viewers. They are considering adding a pitch clock between pitches to speed things up.

Second thing about this. Pro baseball is 9 innings, amateur baseball plays 7. I don't understand why it seems like courses and the USGA won't embrace 9 holes. Most sports at the recreational level take 1-2 hours (tennis, basketball, softball, etc). Golf is the only that takes longer, but a 9 hole round would put it directly in line with every other recreational sport time wise.

Can play nine holes on any course we play. That has always been an option...heck pay the nine hole rate and quit after 5 holes if you like.

Can I play the holes backwards? 9,8,7,6...?
Lol

[uitar9]

 Jc0, on 10 February 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

 uitar9, on 10 February 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

 John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

Yes they are. Baseball is doing everything they can to speed up the game because they are loosing viewers. They are considering adding a pitch clock between pitches to speed things up.

Second thing about this. Pro baseball is 9 innings, amateur baseball plays 7. I don't understand why it seems like courses and the USGA won't embrace 9 holes. Most sports at the recreational level take 1-2 hours (tennis, basketball, softball, etc). Golf is the only that takes longer, but a 9 hole round would put it directly in line with every other recreational sport time wise.

Re the base ball comment: 8.5 innings:if the home team is leading, game over.

But thats the point...Sport is losing impatient people in general. Everything is taking to long....

No its not...its keeping addicted folks away from shiny screens.

TV is losing viewers. Times have changed, Hendrix is dead, I'm almost over it

Edited by uitar9, 13 February 2019 - 09:19 PM.

[Tim Schoch]

 uitar9, on 13 February 2019 - 09:18 PM, said:

 Jc0, on 10 February 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

 uitar9, on 10 February 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

 John L., on 18 January 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's a beautiful game, and there will always be plenty of golfers and courses.

Maybe the game is right sizing?

Was reading a story in past golf mag, the writer was retiring from the mag and talking about the game. He basically said "golf is golf, it isn't meant to be played so fast that you miss the enjoyment of the game, the tranquility of the golf course, the interaction of the people you golf with, the sun and the sky". Not my words, but I'm glad I have that.

It's no different than base ball. 8.5 innings minimum. Time, cost? Damn, folks aren't complaining.

If that doesn't work for some folks, they won't play traditional golf.

Maybe the game is right sizing?  

Those residential housing courses are built on greed with no thought of long term economics. Their closing cuz they aren't built on golfers. Build em and get out. Once the boomers die, even those massive warm weather communities are gonna have trouble. Might be 20 years from now, but its gonna happen.

I play a muni, decent shape, 127 years old this year. $54 a round , canadian. Beautiful setting, nice folks play there, I know I'm gonna be there for 4.5 hours on the weekend. If I need to do something else, I don't play there and then complain about it.

Yes they are. Baseball is doing everything they can to speed up the game because they are loosing viewers. They are considering adding a pitch clock between pitches to speed things up.

Second thing about this. Pro baseball is 9 innings, amateur baseball plays 7. I don't understand why it seems like courses and the USGA won't embrace 9 holes. Most sports at the recreational level take 1-2 hours (tennis, basketball, softball, etc). Golf is the only that takes longer, but a 9 hole round would put it directly in line with every other recreational sport time wise.

Re the base ball comment: 8.5 innings:if the home team is leading, game over.

But thats the point...Sport is losing impatient people in general. Everything is taking to long....

No its not...its keeping addicted folks away from shiny screens.

TV is losing viewers. Times have changed, Hendrix is dead, I'm almost over it

But the screen isn't losing viewers, and there are more screens today than ever--more to watch too.

Yes, people are more imptient. They don't like apprehension and drama, they want action and results. They get it from their virtual world and want it for the real world.  If they don't get it, they throw a tantrum and hope others join their "cause." Idiotic and selfish.

Golf is a game for a leisuely society.  There are still enough of us left to keep golf going as a game and industry, but not forever.

I would say that if you don't like slow play, try to solve the problem without hurting the sport or making it more expensive for us or the courses. If you love the sport, slow or not, be a preservation activist not a complainer with no answers.  Or, just find a solution for you and move on.  

Me, I don't experience slow play where I live now.  Up in NJ, where I grew up, courses are packed. So I'd plan for it, bring some food, watch golf or play poker on my phone, or just practice my chipping. I am sorry, but I love it out there.  If I get done too soon, I want to play again. If you have a wife and kids to get back to, your problem isn't golf.  Figure it out.

[youraway2]

Why are people walking away from the game?

They should not have been there in the first place!  Preserve the game, if they like the game, they will come and they will stay. I've said many times, those wanting to grow the game are only wanting to grow their wallets.

[hybrid25]

 TollBros, on 24 January 2019 - 01:22 PM, said:

 tatertot, on 26 May 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

5 hour rounds.

I'll say it again, it's that simple. It's the reason several friends have stopped playing and the reason the Juniors get bored when we take them on the course. People don't want to sit around all day waiting to hit. It's boring. The governing bodies really really really need to demand enforcement of the sub 4 hour round of 18. If we can't get things sped up, the kids will just keep finding something else to do. Just to clarify again, I teach juniors in the spring and summer several days a week and ask them all the time why their friends don't want to play or when the kids quit asking them why they don't want to play. They constantly say it's boring and I don't like having to sit around and do nothing on the golf course. They want to hit, go to the ball, hit, etc. Not wait on a 4 some to spend 5 hours farting around in front of them all day. Pretty much like I and everyone else I know.

absolutely, it only takes a few slowpokes to ruin it for an entire course. Rangers need to find these people and tell them to either move quicker or find another place to golf. Courses are so afraid of bad publicity, but slow play is a worse cancer then getting an occasional bad rap for overzealous Rangers. Ready golf is so simple to play it's silly.

[Curtdr]

Yep... what's killing golf is SLOW PLAY.

[Jacob37]

I stepped away for a few years. Small kids , plus work, plus other hobbies.  I just about don’t hunt or fish anymore so i prioritize so i can play golf.

[GL3]

I don't think people are walking away from the game because of equipment prices, if that's what you are implying.  If you love the game, play with what you have.  In my league last year I got beat by a guy playing 20 plus year old knock off irons, with an old Callaway BB Warbird 4 wood off the tee.  He's a gem.  IMO its more time, mobility, and course prices for me.  I won't play a course that I know plays like a 5 out of 10 with a price point of a 9 out of 10.  Some of these courses are asking 80 plus with bunkers that are sand packed as hard as concrete.  But then the cheaper priced, moderately conditioned courses are flooded and take 5 plus to play a round.

[MountainGoat]

I have to step back from the game, because I'm no longer mentally strong enough to play it.  I recently learned my daughter is dying of a brain tumor.  I find no comfort in an activity that constantly reminds me what a hopeless failure I am.

[GL3]

That is very upsetting, and I am sorry to hear that.  I'll say this, if you suck as golf embrace it, don't fight it or get embarrassed, and let your personality shine.  IMO playing with a person with a great personality who sucks beats playing with a good player with a crap personality any day of the week.  I wish your family nothing but the best.

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