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Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...


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#31 mizuno player

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:56 PM

It's time and money. Rasing kids today is way expensive. My kid plays travel hockey. It never ends. It is basically a 12 month sport. Between school and travel teams he's on the ice 7 days a week during peak season.

I still play but not very much. Once he gets to college I'll get back into it.

I couldn't imagine more than one kid.


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#32 FourTops

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

View Postmark174ace, on 26 May 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 26 May 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

View Postmark174ace, on 26 May 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

I disagree with the notion that people are playing less golf due to the cost of golf equipment. Unless you use extra stiff shafts or are left handed you can get new or barely used clubs on ebay for a steal. I bought my Ping Anser forged irons for 650.00 which were retailing for approx 1,200. The seller maybe played with them twice and didn't like them so I scooped them up at half price. I play Taylormade TP5 balls and I buy them brand new on ebay for around 35.00 a dozen including shipping. I could by them used for a lot less if I wanted.

I play golf a lot of golf as a single with strangers and I find that I am not paired up with many people under 40. Playing golf on a regular basis is expensive and you are only going to get better if you play more. A lot of these kids are not making good money once they leave college and they owe a lot in student loans. They are also not big on long attention spans. If all they can afford is playing in the afternoon  then they are looking at 5 hour + rounds and they become disinterested. Golf is also hard and many of the millenials are not big on difficult challenges that take time to get better at. Golf will never be about instant gratification.

I have been playing golf regularly for 25 years and I am far and away playing the best golf of my life now at 45 years old. If only 25 year old me only knew what I know now about swinging easier, handling adversity, and thinking my way around the course. It takes time to get better at this game and a lot of younger people just do not want to put in the time or cannot afford to.

You're a veteran like me...we know clubs all to well, and how to avoid over-paying.  But new folks aren't armed with information.  They go into a store and see irons for $999, $1299, $1699, (PXG) $2200, then a "custom" fitting, and another $1000 or so for driver, 3W, and hybrids.  Then a bag..glove, balls, tees, clothes.  And then there's the green fees.

I will also say that I never gave into the hype of new clubs and all the B.S. we hear on the tv commercials. I am a creature of habit and if I like a club it generally stays in the bag for a long time. My Taylor Made rescues are the original ones from 2004 although I will admit a change will be needed sooner than later haha. My Cleveland wedges are the CG 10's which came out a long time ago. My Ping irons and my Scotty putter are 6 years old both bought for half price on ebay. The only club I have under 6 years old is my driver which in 1 year old, but before that I had a Cobra Speed Driver that I had for 8-9 years old that broke. I bought that Cobra driver slightly used on ebay for 150 bucks.

I will also say taking lessons from a good teacher who will give you good swing habits can pay dividends for a long long time. People would spend far less on clubs if they spent more money on lessons and understood their own swing. Their scores would improve and their mishits would not be as bad so there would be no b.s. psychological need for a new club that will make your problems go away.

100%.correct...Lessons!  But guys don't like to ask for directions...they'll drive all around town before giving in.  I also see the same mental mindset with guys I know who have taken up the piano or guitar...no lessons...they sit there and fumble through unstructured learning that only about 1% can do naturally.  Take years to achieve what could have been achieved in 2 months.

Plus, I saw a post on another forum with a question of whether to stick with a 54* wedge, or move to a 52*.  I almost got banned due to my blistering answer.  But I'm now starting to figure out that many guys treat golf as a hobby, not so much a sport, so they blab on and on about obscure stuff and collect clubs....that's fine, but it can be annoying.

As for Ebay, have you noticed the 'new other" clubs?  Those are often sets they get for free and call them demo's, but they're brand new at like 40% off.

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#33 wkuo3

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:36 PM

View Posttatertot, on 26 May 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

5 hour rounds.

Just had one today, being the weekend and the memorial weekend, It's not too bad !
I got in a 3 hour and 10 minutes round last Monday.
Always walked the 18.
Today, we had a group of young guys in front of us, teed off from the very edge of the tee box.  The starter said he had played with them before and they "can" hit long tee shots.  From what I had observed, they were just 15 -18 yards longer off the tee than us.  One of the guy was playing the boom box all the way with rock and roll....
I love music, any kind except the ghetto rap.  
But I don't want to hear any on the golf course, I just want to hear the birds and the wind brushing through the tree top......  Hated these whom selfishly imposing their wish onto the others.  Wear a head phone !

Edited by wkuo3, 27 May 2018 - 09:13 AM.


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#34 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:07 PM

If you donít play golf, itís pointless to watch. If you do play, you have to work at it just to not be totally miserable. It costs more than hookers, bowling and Bocce. And then, thereís all the imagined political objections...

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#35 marmooskapaul

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:55 PM

Depending on where you live...golf is very affordable. Most of my rounds are 20$ or less...groupgolfer is your friend. Also agree with others that good used equipment is cheaper and more available than ever.


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#36 bigchucksr

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:20 AM

Why it's the nature of the industry and that industry mimics other industries.  Every year you have a new "trick" to run out, the golfing press which  relies on it for magazines that sell the "new changes", does rating sections, lives on the advertising income from these products, uses professional golfers to push the product, it's all very nice and very American.  It relies on a solid group of players of the game that believe in and want the "newest and the best" and I say more power to 'em--if they can prosper in that tight limited environment it's a very good thing.
Nothing new here--the computer industry has done the same thing, people are standing in line and pitching away perfectly good i-phones for $1000.00 new ones that offer very little in the way of USABLE new innovations.
Look at the major car manufacturers, year after year coming up with all sorts of new equipment to make us turn in our perfectly good three year old models for cars with automatic braking, blind spot monitors, 360% cameras--stuff we never needed before but now, suddenly all of us have to have an all wheel drive compact that looks like every manufactures' all wheel drive compact from more than 20 ft.  It is the way we live and the way we think--and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and, to me, it signifies success--by god, if you can sell somebody a $1000.00 driver or $2000.00 iron set, good on ya.
Hey, let dreamers dream, if a new SUV, even if you live in Arizona or California where the snow never flies, dreamers are there and ready for those snow covered roads, if that new $1000.00 i-phone will make you the fastest text on the face of the earth, fantastic, and finally, if that driver with all those adjustments, exotic shafting, and highest rating ever in the MOI category is maybe gonna make your game better, well have at it Pal--you're the guy that builds industries, keeps people employed, and golf courses open!

Edited by bigchucksr, 27 May 2018 - 09:27 AM.


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#37 MountainGoat

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.

Edited by MountainGoat, 27 May 2018 - 05:10 AM.


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#38 caniac6

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:32 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.
Why do you play? I've also been playing as long as you, and my experiences are just about opposite of yours. If it ever became work for me, I'd quit!

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#39 SixtySomePing

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:33 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.
I've been playing for over 50 years too MG. We've both seen quite a change as far as some of the points you frankly point out. Are you thinking of walking away from the game because of these things?

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#40 dbleag

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:01 AM

View Postgames, on 26 May 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

I help a friend at the executive 9-hole course he's leasing.  He is a golfer at his core, and wants to put out a decent golfing experience.  Yet, the place is almost always empty.  While it has a bit of a "checkered past" I feel my friend has done a good job of overcoming some of that.  It's kept in good condition, and thanks to our late winter and spring rains, is beautiful.  Yet, so far this year, the range and banquet business (the clubhouse is nice and has a great niche small banquet business for birthday parties and wedding showers) is far outpacing the course revenues.

Cheap, nicely conditioned golf with no one around?

That's exactly what I've been enjoying in Florida for the past 3 years.  I play a par 64 golf course that charges $25 in season and $20 out of season (to ride).  It has ten par 3's, six par 4's and two par 5's.  Certainly everything I need, and it only takes 2 hours and 45 minutes to play.  Conditions are 7/8 out of 10.  Heat in the Summer is the only issue, but the beer is cold and burgers are great when I'm finished.

The place should be packed, but is not.  My best guess is that there is just entirely too much competition nearby, so prices are low.

Price gouging doesn't fix the problem because there's still too much product for the demand.  The National Golf Foundation screwed things up back in the early 90's and now too many golf courses will have to close up to match the available players.  

Hopefully, things will balance out someday.  There's still a ton of hard-core golfers.

Edited by dbleag, 27 May 2018 - 06:02 AM.


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#41 CheckJV

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:29 AM

My perspective as someone in his 50’s.

My after school activities were primarily sports and for almost every practice and game me and my teammates rode our bikes or walked to the field.  There were no parents at the practices and not many parents at the games. Games were mostly week nights. Sports were limited to a short defined season and there was no travel ball.

Contrast that with today’s youth sports lifestyle. Parents at every practice and game with unending seasons of travel ball.  Add in other non-sporting opportunities like scouts, music, church, theatre, etc. and time becomes extremely limited.  

On the flip side I do see a huge youth movement in golf. Our course has several youth camps and it seems to be paying off as I am seeing more young folks playing with their families and more importantly, kids playing together in the afternoons.

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#42 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:42 AM

View PostCheckJV, on 27 May 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

My perspective as someone in his 50ís.

My after school activities were primarily sports and for almost every practice and game me and my teammates rode our bikes or walked to the field.  There were no parents at the practices and not many parents at the games. Games were mostly week nights. Sports were limited to a short defined season and there was no travel ball.

Contrast that with todayís youth sports lifestyle. Parents at every practice and game with unending seasons of travel ball.  Add in other non-sporting opportunities like scouts, music, church, theatre, etc. and time becomes extremely limited.  

On the flip side I do see a huge youth movement in golf. Our course has several youth camps and it seems to be paying off as I am seeing more young folks playing with their families and more importantly, kids playing together in the afternoons.
This ^^^^

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#43 MountainGoat

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:49 AM

View PostSixtySomePing, on 27 May 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.
I've been playing for over 50 years too MG. We've both seen quite a change as far as some of the points you frankly point out. Are you thinking of walking away from the game because of these things?

I'm addicted.  It's just as simple as that.

I'm the guy you always see practicing at the end of the range.  I'm the guy whose footsteps you see in the dew at the start of the day or playing by himself on an adjacent fairway.  You ask yourself "who is that guy?"  It's me.  I'm the guy with the big golf library and mountain of videos.  I build clubs.  My shop looks like an engineering lab.  When I read a book on the science of golf, I actually know what they're talking about.  

But, I'm also the guy at the golf school whose calling out the instructor for saying something stupid.  I've heard it all before.  I visit the Pinehurst Golf Academy in the spring to shake the rust off.  They're not happy to see me.  I've been lied to over and over my whole life to the point that I'm said to have a bad attitude.  What I've learned from all of this is that you don't succeed at anything you put your mind to.  Some things just defeat you.  Golf taught me that.  Golf exists to test how much humiliation you can endure.  I my case, it's been a lot.  

Neitzche was wrong.  Just because something doesn't kill you doesn't make you stronger.  Failure makes you annoying to be around.

Edited by MountainGoat, 27 May 2018 - 07:10 AM.


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#44 naval2006

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:19 AM

What scares people away from golf is time. It’s hard to fight against this, because It’s key to the essence of the game. Younger generations usually don’t want or can’t spend so much time on one leisure activity when they can squeeze in several different things in that time lapse.   Last Saturday I didn’t play because I took some days off from golf after a couple of months of awful rounds. I cooked lunch for the family, I went for a bicycle ride with some mates and then I visited my mum. All these things I never do on a Saturday. And all along I missed my golf. Like they said above, golf is addictive.

The shopping for equipment thing is not what we at GolfWRX believe. Most golfers can’t afford or simply don’t care about equipment because they focus on play and practice. Even though it’s easy to become an equipment hoe if you fool around too much on this site.

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#45 NEhomer

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:44 AM

Are people really "walking away from the game" as much as is reported?

I've been playing for 30+ years and things don't seem that drastically different. Maybe there's less play to a degree but I don't recall not being able to get onto a course back in '86 because man, it seems like everyone's playing golf these days.

...and at that, I think there's less new players than those who are leaving the game.

Edited by NEhomer, 27 May 2018 - 07:50 AM.


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#46 wkuo3

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:48 AM

View Postwrmiller, on 26 May 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

How do we get more people to quit? Darn courses are too crowded, and this may help with the slow pace of play. Or not.

(I'll show myself out... ;) )

They came and they went..... some were lurking.

The game will never die, but reality check will vindicate when I figured out a pound of USDA Prime rib is about $10 at Costco and a round of weekend golf at a local muni is over 4 pounds of that baby......
I'd opt to smell that grease on charcoal.

I used to spend all my free time on the golf course, now I'm a fair weather golfer and more careful with where I spend the green fees.  Money will run out if I'm not careful with the inflation rate ( the silent retirement killer ) even picking up the pace in recent years.

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#47 games

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:03 AM

View Postdbleag, on 27 May 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

View Postgames, on 26 May 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

I help a friend at the executive 9-hole course he's leasing.  He is a golfer at his core, and wants to put out a decent golfing experience.  Yet, the place is almost always empty.  While it has a bit of a "checkered past" I feel my friend has done a good job of overcoming some of that.  It's kept in good condition, and thanks to our late winter and spring rains, is beautiful.  Yet, so far this year, the range and banquet business (the clubhouse is nice and has a great niche small banquet business for birthday parties and wedding showers) is far outpacing the course revenues.

Cheap, nicely conditioned golf with no one around?

That's exactly what I've been enjoying in Florida for the past 3 years.  I play a par 64 golf course that charges $25 in season and $20 out of season (to ride).  It has ten par 3's, six par 4's and two par 5's.  Certainly everything I need, and it only takes 2 hours and 45 minutes to play.  Conditions are 7/8 out of 10.  Heat in the Summer is the only issue, but the beer is cold and burgers are great when I'm finished.

The place should be packed, but is not.  My best guess is that there is just entirely too much competition nearby, so prices are low.

Price gouging doesn't fix the problem because there's still too much product for the demand.  The National Golf Foundation screwed things up back in the early 90's and now too many golf courses will have to close up to match the available players.  

Hopefully, things will balance out someday.  There's still a ton of hard-core golfers.

Hope your course can stay afloat, too.  Sounds perfect!  My friend's course has two par 4s (320-330 length) and seven par 3s, so he tries to market to youth, women, and seniors. Business women is a great untapped market for this type of course.  While the "championship" courses have ladies tees, the average, casual female golfer isn't comfortable playing in front or behind of groups of men.
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#48 MidMOGolfer

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:45 AM

I'm down to 9 holes a week of actual golf.  Rest of the time is spent in my backyard using Skytrak or Pro Putt Systems putting green.  

I'm home more to spend time with my daughter, still get to play golf, and not get frustrated by long, slow rounds.

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#49 gatorMD

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:06 AM

time, money, it's hard, and time.
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#50 RSinSG

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

View PostNEhomer, on 27 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Are people really "walking away from the game" as much as is reported?


I haven't done any research but my first impression was this whole thread may be based upon an untrue assumption. Golf is more popular and "in" now that it ever has been IMO. Tiger brought a bunch of new players to the game, but other new stars are doing the same as evidenced by the orange Puma outfitted kids. I've been playing since I was a teen in the late 60's and while I had to back off when raising a family, I never gave it up. I assume many younger people are in the same boat. When I try to book a time on a nice course I typically find there are little openings - it seems there are a lot of people still fully involved in the sport.

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#51 NJpatbee

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:26 AM

View Postbigchucksr, on 27 May 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Why it's the nature of the industry and that industry mimics other industries.  Every year you have a new "trick" to run out, the golfing press which  relies on it for magazines that sell the "new changes", does rating sections, lives on the advertising income from these products, uses professional golfers to push the product, it's all very nice and very American.  It relies on a solid group of players of the game that believe in and want the "newest and the best" and I say more power to 'em--if they can prosper in that tight limited environment it's a very good thing.
Nothing new here--the computer industry has done the same thing, people are standing in line and pitching away perfectly good i-phones for $1000.00 new ones that offer very little in the way of USABLE new innovations.
Look at the major car manufacturers, year after year coming up with all sorts of new equipment to make us turn in our perfectly good three year old models for cars with automatic braking, blind spot monitors, 360% cameras--stuff we never needed before but now, suddenly all of us have to have an all wheel drive compact that looks like every manufactures' all wheel drive compact from more than 20 ft.  It is the way we live and the way we think--and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and, to me, it signifies success--by god, if you can sell somebody a $1000.00 driver or $2000.00 iron set, good on ya.
Hey, let dreamers dream, if a new SUV, even if you live in Arizona or California where the snow never flies, dreamers are there and ready for those snow covered roads, it that new $1000.00 i-phone will make you the fast text on the face of the earth, fantastic, and finally, if that driver with all those adjustments, exotic shafting, and highest rating ever in the MOI category is maybe gonna make your game better, well have at it Pal--your the guy that builds industries, keeps people employed, and golf courses open!

Well said.

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#52 caniac6

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:26 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 27 May 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.
I've been playing for over 50 years too MG. We've both seen quite a change as far as some of the points you frankly point out. Are you thinking of walking away from the game because of these things?

I'm addicted.  It's just as simple as that.

I'm the guy you always see practicing at the end of the range.  I'm the guy whose footsteps you see in the dew at the start of the day or playing by himself on an adjacent fairway.  You ask yourself "who is that guy?"  It's me.  I'm the guy with the big golf library and mountain of videos.  I build clubs.  My shop looks like an engineering lab.  When I read a book on the science of golf, I actually know what they're talking about.  

But, I'm also the guy at the golf school whose calling out the instructor for saying something stupid.  I've heard it all before.  I visit the Pinehurst Golf Academy in the spring to shake the rust off.  They're not happy to see me.  I've been lied to over and over my whole life to the point that I'm said to have a bad attitude.  What I've learned from all of this is that you don't succeed at anything you put your mind to.  Some things just defeat you.  Golf taught me that.  Golf exists to test how much humiliation you can endure.  I my case, it's been a lot.  

Neitzche was wrong.  Just because something doesn't kill you doesn't make you stronger.  Failure makes you annoying to be around.
In all honesty, I sure hope you are happier than you sound. I am a dewsweeper, and often play alone, but I love being outside, and I can't tell you how much I enjoy my walk. No matter how good or bad I play, I have never felt defeated by golf. I have never felt humiliated, because, as much as I love golf, I have never been defined by golf. Even when I practice, it is still play to me. Golf brings joy to my life, even when the results are not good. I'm very sorry about the way you feel.

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#53 SixtySomePing

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:10 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 27 May 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

View PostMountainGoat, on 27 May 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

People are walking away from the game because golf isn't that much fun.  It's work.  It takes tons of time, effort and money to play well enough to enjoy the game.  In my case, I've been playing for over 50 years, and it's more of a part-time job than enjoyable leisure activity.  I don't like the person I become when I play.  Golf drives me into a concentrated head space that makes me difficult to be around.  Sometimes I'm quite ashamed of myself.  The notion that it teaches positive values like honesty and integrity is just a lie.  Judging by the people I see, it actually teaches discourtesy, gambling and drunkenness.  I wouldn't advise people to get involved with the game.  Like an abusive lover, golf promises much more than it delivers, and the entire relationship is often toxic.
I've been playing for over 50 years too MG. We've both seen quite a change as far as some of the points you frankly point out. Are you thinking of walking away from the game because of these things?

I'm addicted.  It's just as simple as that.

I'm the guy you always see practicing at the end of the range.  I'm the guy whose footsteps you see in the dew at the start of the day or playing by himself on an adjacent fairway.  You ask yourself "who is that guy?"  It's me.  I'm the guy with the big golf library and mountain of videos.  I build clubs.  My shop looks like an engineering lab.  When I read a book on the science of golf, I actually know what they're talking about.  

But, I'm also the guy at the golf school whose calling out the instructor for saying something stupid.  I've heard it all before.  I visit the Pinehurst Golf Academy in the spring to shake the rust off.  They're not happy to see me.  I've been lied to over and over my whole life to the point that I'm said to have a bad attitude.  What I've learned from all of this is that you don't succeed at anything you put your mind to.  Some things just defeat you.  Golf taught me that.  Golf exists to test how much humiliation you can endure.  I my case, it's been a lot.  

Neitzche was wrong.  Just because something doesn't kill you doesn't make you stronger.  Failure makes you annoying to be around.
I'm sorry MG, I'm really glad you're here on WRX. Hopefully you don't feel that way in general about life, you've made it all these years right? Perhaps you've focused on the wrong things being the target for what is deemed success? You talk about videos, and engineering clubs, and science of golf, but very little about enjoying the game, and sheer happiness. Science and engineering and videos don't teach you that. You would have to change your heart frankly. And no one is too old for that. I have never met anyone who has been humiliated by enjoying playing golf. For me, I don't play well, But I have never been to an academy, wouldn't know how to put a club together, I don't watch golf videos, etc. But I'll tell you when I have the most fun playing golf. My wife of 45 years will come along with me maybe on a Saturday afternoon, oh she doesn't play, but she's there with me. We laugh, she plays in the ponds, walks thru the woods, we have a great time. She almost died 24 years ago to breast cancer, MG, so enjoyment and happiness in golf are primary when I play, not technology or science or such. You should try making it an enjoyable experience for you too, makes it a whole new game. You're outside, you get to play, have fun for once... It's a good reason not to walk away from golf.

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#54 Under2hours

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:39 PM

View PostCheckJV, on 27 May 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

My perspective as someone in his 50’s.

My after school activities were primarily sports and for almost every practice and game me and my teammates rode our bikes or walked to the field.  There were no parents at the practices and not many parents at the games. Games were mostly week nights. Sports were limited to a short defined season and there was no travel ball.

Contrast that with today’s youth sports lifestyle. Parents at every practice and game with unending seasons of travel ball.  Add in other non-sporting opportunities like scouts, music, church, theatre, etc. and time becomes extremely limited.  

On the flip side I do see a huge youth movement in golf. Our course has several youth camps and it seems to be paying off as I am seeing more young folks playing with their families and more importantly, kids playing together in the afternoons.

It is really something how much investment parents need to make with kids & activities that are no more then that.  Friend's 16 year old dropped from triple A to double A baseball and let's say 15 on the team and all 15 chauffeured by 15-30 parents, none really friends outside baseball and 3-4 days a week.  My friend is the bad parent who bikes to the game and may miss half of it and at times as the Lexus/RangeRovers/BMW's leave they take the bus or coach drops son off at the subway.

It doesn't in and we were lucky that our kids were invovled but never in anything that took up travelling, weekends & hours every night.

As for golf it is time & money (here it is expensive) and I joined a club, pay too much but we have the first tee offs on the weekend (6:30 am and done 9:20) and late days too under 2:30......

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#55 FourTops

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:52 PM

Here's another take...and this may sound weird but hear me out.

I play piano (and this goes for anyone who plays guitar or other instruments well).  When I started I knew what I was in for....meaning to play well will require a significant commitment.  There were times that I wanted to quit...MANY times...because like golf, a little success on the piano led me to jump WAY ahead and frustrate myself by attacking pieces or lessons that were too hard.  I learned a long time ago that there were no "short-cuts".

Learning piano is an iterative process.  Things just happen out of nowhere...like how I could visualize the keyboard without looking.  But all of that progress was not without tons of frustration combined with tons of patience.

Golf is elusively strange.  A beginner can hit 300 yard drives.  An OK golfer can shoot in the low 80's.  Piano is different...there's no "luck", and certainly a beginner can't sit down and play Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata in original form.  However, the fact is golf IS like trying to play Moonlight Sonata...the industry just wants you to believe the process can be short-cutted with technology.  There's no "play improvement" piano, but there are "game improvement" clubs, and even "SUPER Game Improvement" clubs.   But it's all BS.  

IMO there's been little improvement in irons since the Ping Eye 2's.  Sure, new tech has multi-metal construction, springboard faces, but none of that sends the ball to the target without talent.  And golf, like piano...one STILL must master the fundamentals which is extremely difficult and time-consuming...unless one is naturally talented.  There are young piano players who are prodigy's at the age of 10...they are NOT normal.  It's the same in golf...some folks have an innate ability...but most don't. And if you don't you better plan on playing a LOT of "golf scales" like piano, and commit endless hours to become the golfer one envisions they want to become.

And further, what annoys the crap out of me is the non-stop "what the pro's play".  Pro piano players play concert Yamaha's or Steinway's...they require the same level of precision as the $800 keyboard. So playing what the pro golfer plays is absolutely meaningless because behind those clubs is a million hours of dedication.

If people fully understood that the golf advertising is completely false, and to become excellent at golf requires the same commitment and regimen required to play the piano well, courses would be wide open.  People should either enjoy playing Mary Had A Little Lamb, or shooting all kinds of inconsistent scores, or move on to another interest.

Edited by FourTops, 27 May 2018 - 09:54 PM.


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#56 wrmiller

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:13 PM

Golf courses were drying up/going broke, equipment was getting too expensive, participation was dying, etc., etc.. These were topics on the golf related bbs (remember Compuserve?) I hung out on long before the WWW showed up. And they were tired old topics getting beat to death in the local clubhouses long before computers.

Same old topics, newer/younger complainers. My son started complaining about the cost of equipment, green fees, rounds taking too long, etc. a while back. I told him that if he hated it that much, shut up and quit.

He hasn't played since. Now, he is married with kids and running his own business so he's too busy. We'll hopefully play again when he throws the kids out. If I'm around that long.

And these discussions will probably still be going on...
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#57 ArtMBgolf

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:31 PM

I don't think avid golfers, like Golfwrx members, are walking away from golf.  
Those who age out of playing are not being replaced by new younger golfers and/or the new golfers are not as avid.
They play less often and have less etiquette, thus longer rounds with supposedly fewer golfers playing.  

Golf may cost a higher % of income than it used to, but there are ways to keep costs down, with plenty of good used equipment.

Possibly newer golfers don't take the game as serious as golfers used to do, thus if they have a family or time problem, it's easier to give up or
play less, because they never invested the time to get decent/good at it.   They rather text + twitter.

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#58 FourTops

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:54 PM

View PostArtMBgolf, on 27 May 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

I don't think avid golfers, like Golfwrx members, are walking away from golf.  
Those who age out of playing are not being replaced by new younger golfers and/or the new golfers are not as avid.
They play less often and have less etiquette, thus longer rounds with supposedly fewer golfers playing.  

Golf may cost a higher % of income than it used to, but there are ways to keep costs down, with plenty of good used equipment.

Possibly newer golfers don't take the game as serious as golfers used to do, thus if they have a family or time problem, it's easier to give up or
play less, because they never invested the time to get decent/good at it.   They rather text + twitter.

Could it be that younger folks have been barraged with advertising and they realize golf is "not as easy" as advertised....they've seen their dad complain since the 80's about golf...maybe they see it's either full-on commitment or do something else?

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#59 Jackal

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:26 AM

A lot of my Sons friends have told us that  they prefer hunting and fishing.
We like it too.
But they  said they don't  have to practice for H & F.
They  go out and make sure their rifle is still sighted in from last year.
They  put new line on their  reels, and the first  day of the season is as good as the last day of last season.


    They probably spend  the same amount of  time outdoors as we do.
The practice part is what  several of them didn't  like.
They  said it was akin to learning a musical instrument.

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#60 sheldonjhacker

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:36 AM

Amateur golf doesn't have to be an all or nothing hobby.  Nobody ever said you have to dedicate your life to golf.  It's another amazing, wonderful hobby...one of many you can choose.  Nobody is forcing you to be a golf psycho where it takes over all of your free time and money.  

Play it a ton and enjoy it, or play once in a while and enjoy it.  Buy new clubs if you feel like it, not because they are released every 6 months.  Your call.   :wave:

Edited by sheldonjhacker, 28 May 2018 - 07:48 AM.


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