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Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...


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#211 BIG STU

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:21 AM

View PostFerguson, on 08 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

I just saw this on the news................... these people are leaving the game.   Some look happy and others relieved.

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#212 BIG STU

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:38 AM

View PostBad9, on 08 June 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

View Postaliikane, on 08 June 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 08 June 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

New generation of youth view golf and golfers as stodgy and rigid.

Proper dress codes, no music allowed on most courses, having to wear polo collared shirts, a rule book that even the pros can't quite decipher and on and on.

Lucky Strike bowling for those of you who know it got it right with respect to most of the younger generation thinking bowling is boring as heck. And how is it they are packed to the gills just about every night if the week?? They make bowling more about a fun event with turning it more into a party scene w great music, a fun and happy vibe and yes, there's also some bowling involved. Similar to Top Golf which took the very basic and somewhat boring world of driving ranges and added a pure unadulterated FUN factor.

If we don't change or at least greatly simplify the rules and make golf exciting or cool, we will continue to see less interest.



I think there are two types of players. Competitive players and go have fun players. To me, taking the game seriously and being competitive is fun and exciting. It doesn't have to be a party to be fun. I agree some of the rules need to be simplified. However personally, I prefer golf to be played how it was traditionally meant to be played. That is just me though. Different "strokes" for different folks. No pun intended. Haha.

I generally agree with you about how and why I play. Trying to shoot the best score I can under the rules is the enjoyment for me. The problem with tradition(as per my bolded part) is determining what tradition do you subscribe to? Traditions change and evolve. Anchored putting was ok for 20+ years, to me thats long enough to be traditional. The game as played by Nicklaus and Palmer was different than that played by Jones and Quiemet so where do you define tradition.
Pretty well said. I have tried to explain that on here for years. Basically I am of the old school camp as in blades and persimmon generation. But to put it in a nutshell golf like life has evolved. Golf is what you want to get out of it. I played comp professionally and big money matches for years. I basically retired from doing all of that 10 years ago. I hardly practice. I almost went back a couple of years ago and got my AM status back to play some CGA amateur events. I scrapped those plans when I found out I could get called out on some of the equipment I wanted to play. Screw all of that for some trophy and gift certificates.

Now days i practice if I want to. I play with a couple of small groups maybe sometimes for very low money games. I have so much vintage equipment i switch around a lot. That is my fun now taking sometimes 60 year old clubs and seeing what I can shoot with them. Do not really care if I shot in the 70s 80s and 90s just like the old stuff. Played 27 last night on the twilight thing at my home course bagging a set of 82 Mac VIP irons and somewhat modern metals. Our Twilight thing starts at 4:00 until dark. It was hot and humid and the course was deserted so I sorta flew around. Had plenty of ice and water. For me It does not get any better than that.
Really for me now golf is more fun than it has ever been
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#213 Reasonability

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

^^^^

Good stuff right there.

Golf is an "in the moment" sport.  Invest whatever you care to in it or not from equipment to time to lessons to whatever winds your personal watch.  But it ultimately comes down to moments where we execute briefly (in a moment) after putting some or a lot of preparation into that moment.

Yes there's a scorecard.  Yes, we compete.   But at the end of the day it's is compilation of how we managed ourselves and the course over 70 or 80 or 100+ in-the-moment opportunities out there.  We can swing whatever we want in terms of sticks, have fun with weekend buds, or play for scholarships and trophies. But we either thrive on those in-the-moment opportunities as we address the ball and send it on it's way, or we don't.  What's at stake is not attainable until or unless we revel in-the-moment.

That little final hole putting meltdown suffered by Jason Duffner at Sawgrass a few weeks ago... that one reportedly cost him about 3/4 of million.

Now how many of us are honestly ever going to have more than a small trophy, side bet, or friendly ribbing and Sunday bragging rights on the line?  We're investing whatever time, money, energy, and personal commitment we individually care to give to golf.  We experience these in-the-moment things one shot at a time and compare notes with other golfers on a thing called the scorecard.

To me and FWIW, in the car heading home all I really want to know is did I selfishly enjoy that compilation of moments?  And, did I enjoy the camaraderie, scenery and such that went with it?  Win or lose, was it worth it or not?

No matter how each individual answers those questions privately, he/she is absolutely correct.  This isn't a game for everybody.
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#214 wrmiller

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:54 AM

Love that 'Outlaw golf Association'. Sick and tired of the USGA and their crap. How do I join up? ;)
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#215 2putttom

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 11:36 AM

View Postmarmooskapaul, on 09 June 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

In the famous words of Keith Richards..." I will walk away before they make me run"
or bury me.

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#216 uitar9

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

The last two weekends-playing the munis. All three rounds, golfed with 25-30 year olds. Happy as clams to ride around the 18 holes, couple of beers, couple of numbers, (one guy even offered me a toke-first time thats happened in 30 years) maybe shooting 100, just enjoying the opportunity.

All I know are the public and muni courses I play. There are more young folks playing than ever. Plus the geezers of course but we are gonna die.

My country club buddies are all complaining, memberships are down for two reasons...poor economy and death. Can't fight that.

Those 25 year olds can't afford a $50M share purchase and $10M a year. But they can afford $50 a round when they choose to spend it.
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#217 TollBros

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

View PostHehateme, on 07 June 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

people leave the game because they suck at golf and spending 4 to 5 hours doing something you suck at isnt a good time

That doesn't seem to stop anyone I get stuck playing behind it seems. Haha
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#218 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:43 PM

View Postuitar9, on 10 June 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Those 25 year olds can't afford a $50M share purchase and $10M a year. But they can afford $50 a round when they choose to spend it.

The courses around me - like the one in my avatar photo which you can visit their website and double check (or Orange Tree CC, or Four Seasons Disney) - all offer young professional memberships which are GREAT deals, but you still need to be pretty successful to sustain them.

Many 'successful' young people can buy a 20k boat no problem since it's a one-time fee with varying maintenance, but a CC membership has a high yearly cost and you better be a member for a decade if you want that down payment to even out.

Lots of 25-35 age range at the private clubs around me due to these packages they offer.
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#219 uitar9

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:04 PM

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 10 June 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

View Postuitar9, on 10 June 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Those 25 year olds can't afford a $50M share purchase and $10M a year. But they can afford $50 a round when they choose to spend it.

The courses around me - like the one in my avatar photo which you can visit their website and double check (or Orange Tree CC, or Four Seasons Disney) - all offer young professional memberships which are GREAT deals, but you still need to be pretty successful to sustain them.

Many 'successful' young people can buy a 20k boat no problem since it's a one-time fee with varying maintenance, but a CC membership has a high yearly cost and you better be a member for a decade if you want that down payment to even out.

Lots of 25-35 age range at the private clubs around me due to these packages they offer.

Don't disagree.

There are so many options out there for that dollar. Why are we surprised it isn't golf.
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#220 BIG STU

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:40 PM

View Postwrmiller, on 10 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Love that 'Outlaw golf Association'. Sick and tired of the USGA and their crap. How do I join up? ;)
All it is is a loosely thing that I started over in the Confessions Section of the 19th hole--- No dues or anything--- No real rules just these few

1- Play whatever clubs you want to regardless of if they are on some USGA conforming list or not
2- Have a stated hatred for the USGA (which BTW you have already stated)
3 - Slam the USGA every time you get a chance on here and other forums and extra points for doing that in public

Easy to join just pick your own member number and post on your signature

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#221 hybrid25

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:47 PM

 Swisstrader98, on 08 June 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

New generation of youth view golf and golfers as stodgy and rigid.

Proper dress codes, no music allowed on most courses, having to wear polo collared shirts, a rule book that even the pros canít quite decipher and on and on.

Lucky Strike bowling for those of you who know it got it right with respect to most of the younger generation thinking bowling is boring as heck. And how is it they are packed to the gills just about every night if the week?? They make bowling more about a fun event with turning it more into a party scene w great music, a fun and happy vibe and yes, thereís also some bowling involved. Similar to Top Golf which took the very basic and somewhat boring world of driving ranges and added a pure unadulterated FUN factor.

If we donít change or at least greatly simplify the rules and make golf exciting or cool, we will continue to see less interest.
There is 'glow golf' if you didn't realize.

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#222 nsxguy

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 05:31 PM

 Swisstrader98, on 08 June 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

New generation of youth view golf and golfers as stodgy and rigid.

Proper dress codes, no music allowed on most courses, having to wear polo collared shirts, a rule book that even the pros can't quite decipher and on and on.

Lucky Strike bowling for those of you who know it got it right with respect to most of the younger generation thinking bowling is boring as heck. And how is it they are packed to the gills just about every night if the week?? They make bowling more about a fun event with turning it more into a party scene w great music, a fun and happy vibe and yes, there's also some bowling involved. Similar to Top Golf which took the very basic and somewhat boring world of driving ranges and added a pure unadulterated FUN factor.

If we don't change or at least greatly simplify the rules and make golf exciting or cool, we will continue to see less interest.

You're right. Full unadulterated FUN !!! :yahoo:

Let's DANCE !!!

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#223 Nachosgrande

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 05:54 PM

 Cwing, on 26 May 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

Easiest question to answer in the history of sport. GOLF IS HARD!!!

Evidence

http://www.golfwrx.c...up-for-a-while/

http://www.golfwrx.c...ge__hl__ giving

There are days when I would agree with you, but for the most part it used to be a difficult game because of the equipment available.  Today any idiot can find the fairway 300+ yards out.  I can't imagine folks aren't playing because it's too hard anymore.

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#224 alfie

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 06:40 PM

 Bourni1, on 28 May 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Finding time is tough.  I have played since I was around 12 years old or so, its a family sport and was blessed to have spent hours on the course with my grandfather, father, brother, uncles and cousins. Most of us have continued playing but I have had my spurts of 1 or 2 years where I play only 2 or 3 times a year as a result of family and work obligations.  They key is to try and make the time if you really love the game.  Be it going to the range or putting green, the quick 9 holes at dawn, or the 18 hole 5 hour round on Saturday one must sacrifice something (sleep is usually the easiest one to sacrifice).

I dont think cost is the big issue with golf. Equipment is easily available, and there are different course options that are affordable compared with other hobbies.  I have small children and a very understanding wife, who knows that my job is very demanding and that I spend all week looking forward to my weekend round, but every once in while there will inevitably be stretches where golf is not possible. I really look forward to getting my kids into the game and am sure that will permit me to keep playing for years to come.

^^^ THIS! ^^^

I've come to the "rationalization" that if I want to play, 9 holes, back nine, early or super early in the morning on the weekends is really my only option (2 kids under 4 yrs of age, wife, older parents to keep an eye on, 2 family business to run and everythng else in life). And that's basically once a week. Would like it to be Sat. & Sun., but it's really difficult. It's very difficult to do 18 holes here in NY. So, I've compromised... just lose out some sleep.
Cost is a factor too, but really... TIME is the major issue.

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#225 billh17

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:52 PM

 Nachosgrande, on 10 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

 Cwing, on 26 May 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

Easiest question to answer in the history of sport. GOLF IS HARD!!!

Evidence

http://www.golfwrx.c...up-for-a-while/

http://www.golfwrx.c...ge__hl__ giving

There are days when I would agree with you, but for the most part it used to be a difficult game because of the equipment available.  Today any idiot can find the fairway 300+ yards out.  I can't imagine folks aren't playing because it's too hard anymore.

So....90% or so of the people who play this game are idiots? There are many 300 yarders on here,but the majority of the  golfing public are
not hitting their tee shot that distance ! But the equipment is a big factor helping people stay in the game. Time and the learning curve are a
big obstacle for a lot of folks.

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#226 Rapatt95

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:27 AM

 Nard_S, on 31 May 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Folks are better test takers than before (and it's peaked). Are they really more intelligent? Are people really deeper thinkers and more literate than folks back in the day?

Btw, how do you measure the intelligence of a Duke Ellington or even a James Brown? Or a Picasso? All genius, no doubt. Where are today's genius in art and science?

Who's the new Tesla or Einstein? Or Charlie Parker?
The new Tesla or Einstein?

I’d say Cuban and Musk are up there in terms of modern day innovation in their respective sectors.

The minds working on space travel, at the hadron collider, in advanced medicine, etc. I think it’s safe to say that we have plenty of inventors, innovators, and deep thinkers. How many of the amazing artists of history were thought nothing of in their own time? Perhaps you’re simply overlooking those who may be the revered minds of our time when it’s looked back on in a few decades.
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#227 Hogan9

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:40 PM

I think the recession was one of the  reasons for the decline in golf participation for the last decade. It is a very expensive game. Also, I believe that our culture is changing in that people spend more and more time looking at screens both on and off the job. I don't even take my cell phone on the course, but I'm in the minority
on that issue. A round of golf usually takes four hours (five on some public courses) and most people simply can't or won't be "unconnected" for that length of time.
Attention spans have grown shorter over time which has contributed to the decline as well. I still see a lot of young people playing at our club. I hope most of them will stick with the game and help it grow once again.

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#228 phil75070

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 01:28 PM

I think it is two things, the time it takes to play a round, especially on weekends, and the cost of equipment. It wast that long a go a top of the line driver sold for $299. Now most are $499 and up! Well over $1000 for a set of irons; Putters $200 and up for the good ones.
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#229 hybrid25

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

 phil75070, on 04 July 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

I think it is two things, the time it takes to play a round, especially on weekends, and the cost of equipment. It wast that long a go a top of the line driver sold for $299. Now most are $499 and up! Well over $1000 for a set of irons; Putters $200 and up for the good ones.
I think the consensus is, including your post, that time is a huge importance to whether people play or not. Imagine a father of two kids working 50 hours a week, and then taking 7 hours away from a Saturday or Sunday to go play golf. When you factor in driving time and maybe a little bit of practice time it could easily add up to 6 or 7 hours.

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#230 FourTops

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:15 PM

I don't blame the cost of golf.  I bought a set of 1-SW Ping Eye 2's for $89...in very good condition.  Old blade putters work just fine.  There's drivers for $49 in the used bin that are in great shape.  There's used "like new" bags on Ebay for $50.  15 pack of balls for $12.

Plus, as for time...folks can play 9 holes in about 2-2.5 hours...nobody said folks have to play 18.  I got "dragged out" as a kid and loved playing once I got the drift of the game.


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#231 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:18 PM

 phil75070, on 04 July 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

I think it is two things, the time it takes to play a round, especially on weekends, and the cost of equipment. It wast that long a go a top of the line driver sold for $299. Now most are $499 and up! Well over $1000 for a set of irons; Putters $200 and up for the good ones.
Time is the biggest factor by far. Cost of equipment? No. I just bought a used cleveland launcher, mint condition for $60. The used equipment market is plentiful and amazing prices.

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#232 kgeisler13

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:01 AM

I think there are a lot of factors mostly money and time.  All golf equipment is very expensive.  That is why I do most of my searching for everything besides wedges on this website.  The prices may be relevant to the prices they were back in the 70s and 80s but I think most people are making less money, especially younger people.  I have friends that are just starting to play in college and they obviously can't get brand new equipment so they have to find nice used clubs or hammy downs.  Also I think a round of golf cost to much as well.  I understand you have to charge a certain amount to pay your bills and staff but eventually I think the high price will drive some people away.  I'm sure some prices are designed to drive away hackers and people going to the course to party.  Like a lot of you have said, golf takes to long to play at certain golf courses.  Most people can't find 5 hours of their day to go play golf.
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#233 hnryclay

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:32 AM

I don't think cost is as much of a factor as people let on. Golf is as cheap now as it has been in my lifetime. The biggest factor I see is the expectations of society for men in families. I rarely saw my father as a child, as he worked from 7 in the morning, until 4 in the afternoon, and then was involved in several other activities. Now fathers are expected to go to youth sports practices, games, and generally be involved in raising children. It is not just golf that is impacted, fraternal organisations that draw from the same pool of applicants are also on the wane ( Masonic lodges, Shriners, Elks, Rotary ). If you are not constantly around your kids, you are viewed as a bad parent. I actually see a lot of "new" golfers in their 50s, and 60s  who are returning to the game after their kids are grown.

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#234 ritz0019

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:19 AM

I think golf has peaked, that's all.  During the Tiger era, more people were interested in the game.  Look at NASCAR, same situation.  There was a period of time when raceways was selling out and people were going nuts over racing.  Now, racing is back where it was before the huge peak.  Golf is the same.  Tiger brought more people to the game.  Then, it kinda crashed back down to a country club sport again.  Here is why I don't buy the money and time theory.  Take a few other example hobbies:

1)  Fly fishing...good luck doing this in under 4 hours and spending less than you do on golf.  
2)  Camping..again same thing.
3)  Hunting...guns, deer stand, cold gear, accessories, and being out in the woods for hours.
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#235 Naptime

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:20 AM

To an outsider golf is like a clique with its own culture. It's not that hard to look like a total moron even before you get to the first tee. If you have a mentor, some of that stuff is a less painful lesson. Even teeing a ball - I've seen people try to use their fingers instead of pressing down on the ball.  Things like don't leave the cart in front of the hole.  Play ready golf but being aware of what is going around around you or might be overdoing it.  So now you are on #1 and everybody is staring at you, or it just feels that way.  

I just played a round with a fishing bud who is taking up golf.  Finances are not an issue for him.  But he went out and bought clubs on eBay without really knowing anything about clubs.  Didn't like the idea of getting fitted and paying $1-2k for clubs just because his other golfing crew said to get fitted.  So the grips are well worn and different sizes, and he's getting them regripped.  New players have no clue what they are looking for in clubs.  I've seen the same thing with boats and fishing etc.  Folks buy stuff totally unsuited for their goals, but they won't know what they need til they get experience using gear they didn't need. At least golf is cheaper than boating.

Personally I think the biggest incentive to take up golf is having friends/family who play and who will mentor you without giving you a ton of sh!t along the way.

Edited by Naptime, 05 July 2018 - 10:56 AM.


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#236 Sean2

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:24 AM

 BlackDiamondPar5, on 04 July 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

 phil75070, on 04 July 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

I think it is two things, the time it takes to play a round, especially on weekends, and the cost of equipment. It wast that long a go a top of the line driver sold for $299. Now most are $499 and up! Well over $1000 for a set of irons; Putters $200 and up for the good ones.
Time is the biggest factor by far. Cost of equipment? No. I just bought a used cleveland launcher, mint condition for $60. The used equipment market is plentiful and amazing prices.

Not only that, but there are plenty of golf courses one can play for relatively little money.

I think another factor may be frustration. We have become an instant gratification society and golf offers anything but. It requires patience and practice...and if one doesn't have a real talent for the game (like some of us), it requires that times two.
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#237 hnryclay

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:24 AM

 ritz0019, on 05 July 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

I think golf has peaked, that's all.  During the Tiger era, more people were interested in the game.  Look at NASCAR, same situation.  There was a period of time when raceways was selling out and people were going nuts over racing.  Now, racing is back where it was before the huge peak.  Golf is the same.  Tiger brought more people to the game.  Then, it kinda crashed back down to a country club sport again.  Here is why I don't buy the money and time theory.  Take a few other example hobbies:

1)  Fly fishing...good luck doing this in under 4 hours and spending less than you do on golf.  
2)  Camping..again same thing.
3)  Hunting...guns, deer stand, cold gear, accessories, and being out in the woods for hours.

Fly Fishing, fishing in general, and Hunting are also in decline.

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#238 Naptime

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 11:01 AM

I don't fish or shoot much these days because I'm golfing so much.

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#239 FourTops

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 11:02 AM

 Naptime, on 05 July 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

To an outsider golf is like a clique with its own culture. It's not that hard to look like a total moron even before you get to the first tee. If you have a mentor, some of that stuff is a less painful lesson. Even teeing a ball - I've seen people try to use their fingers instead of pressing down on the ball.  Things like don't leave the cart in from of the hole.  Play ready golf but being aware of what is going around around you or might be overdoing it.  So now you are on #1 and everybody is staring at you, or it just feels that way.  

I just played a round with a fishing bud who is taking up golf.  Finances are not an issue for him.  But he went out and bought clubs on eBay without really knowing anything about clubs.  Didn't like the idea of getting fitted and paying $1-2k for clubs just because his other golfing crew said to get fitted.  So the grips are well worn and different sizes, and he's getting them regripped.  New players have no clue what they are looking for in clubs.  I've seen the same thing with boats and fishing etc.  Folks buy stuff totally unsuited for their goals, but they won't know what they need til they get experience using gear they didn't need. At least golf is cheaper than boating.

Personally I think the biggest incentive to take up golf is having friends/family who play and who will mentor you without giving you a ton of sh!t along the way.

I can see what you're saying.  Talk about feeling like a moron....I started out playing golf with a buddy who was #2 man on the high school team, #1 was Rick Smith...that Rick Smith.  I would play with my buddy much more, but sometimes with both.  They would get up to the tee, drive the ball straight down the middle...then I get up there...giant slice.  What's funny is you'd think they would have been annoyed, but it was the opposite. They enjoyed helping me go from shooting 120 to low 90s in one summer.  I learned stuff that would have taken years to learn.

New folks think us seasoned players are laughing at them, but we're not.  For me, there's nothing more fun for me than helping newbies, and it actually helps me to keep track of my fundamentals, so my game actually improves during the process.

EDIT:  Plus, I think courses should "deputize" folks to teach at ranges, let them charge less to help new folks.  There's plenty of very good players who could pick up some cash and get folks moved from lousy to decent basic golf.

Edited by FourTops, 05 July 2018 - 11:14 AM.


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#240 Mcgeeno

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 11:23 AM

Most my friends in their early 30s have kids and canít get away for 4-6 hours on a weekend (drive there/round/beers/lunch after etc) without calling the president and requesting a special leave.

I think itís as simple as time and money...



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