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A dozen kids DQ'd for playing the wrong tee


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#1 wadesworld

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:34 PM

So a dozen high school players were DQ'd for playing the wrong tees.  The rule sheet said to play the blue tees, but on one particular hole, the scorecard yardage matched the red tees.  They played from the red tees and were DQ'd.

https://www.golfchan....dayNL_20180516

Seems a fairly simple situation and a hard lesson learned by some high schoolers.

But the golfers and some of the coaches claim a rules official told them to hit from the wrong tee box and then denied it when questioned:

https://www.golfdige...-then-denied-it

Curious as to reactions to this one.  It would seem the evidence would be compelling enough that the committee should determine the official was in error.

What then though?  I don't think they can allow the scores to stand as the players didn't play the same hole.  In equity, should the committee invoke 1-4 and allow the affected players to replay the hole from the correct tee?

Obviously, when the claims of the official lying would come into play. If that information didn't come to light until after the competition had closed, the committee would have no option but to let the DQ's stand.


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#2 metsmc

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:05 PM

That's an unfortunate situation. The only logical thing is to throw out that hole. Give everyone a par.

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#3 LeoLeo99

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"

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#4 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:58 PM

Lesson should be, when the card says play from blue tees, you play from the blue tees. We all know scorecard yardages aren't accurate.
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#5 sui generis

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:02 PM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"

The Committee's role is to conduct the competition in accordance with the Rules of Golf.

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#6 wadesworld

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:03 PM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"

Before you get indignant (too late), the "hard lesson" comment was in reference to the original situation, when it was believed they had played the hole incorrectly despite the proper tee being clearly stated on the rule sheet.

Had that been the entirety of the situation, the DQ would have been the appropriate ruling and the kids would have learned a hard lesson about making sure they read the rule sheet. The committee would not have been wrong, unkind, or rule-mongering hard-asses.

However, with the second story, it's the apparent incorrect action by the rules official that would seem to indicate a ruling in equity by the committee should have occurred. If the kids were directed to play the wrong tee boxes, it is not their fault they followed directions and the committee should rectify the situation.

Edited by wadesworld, 17 May 2018 - 09:06 PM.


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#7 Bingo1976

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:15 PM

View Postwadesworld, on 17 May 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:


However, with the second story, it's the apparent incorrect action by the rules official that would seem to indicate a ruling in equity by the committee should have occurred. If the kids were directed to play the wrong tee boxes, it is not their fault they followed directions and the committee should rectify the situation.

It's a bunch of 12 years olds - they have learnt their lesson on tee boxes, but having been lied to, just scrub the entire hole from everyone's rounds. No-one is missing out on a pro career because of this so apply some common sense.

And a ban for the lying official.
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#8 Dougie Jones

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:22 PM

Give them all trophy, they tryed

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#9 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:43 PM

LOL, I doubt it was intentional, but it is hilarious they went to DQ after the event!

Unfortunate, seems like retreating behind a hard line stance seemed the easiest way out.

Not sure why this is getting "national" golf attention and wondering if the "rules official" was really a rules official or just a volunteer there for simply helping in general and the status has been "elevated" because of the argument.

Anyway, it is too bad and I disagree in equity after the first groups went through on the reds, and if the issue was "joined" at that point, they couldn't have simply put the blue tees up for the rest of the field, but that is not an informed opinion.

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#10 DFinch

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:23 PM

This is my home course. I haven’t talked to staff yet.

The claim is:

The blue markers were supposed to be at 172 but course staff forgot to move them.
The par 3 involved (#13 at Quail Valley) has progressively elevated tee boxes. The next box back is 210 and is the “white” tee box. The blue markers were there. There is at least one claim they were not visible on approach due to the incline.
A course Marshall (not tournament official) was asked what to do. He either told them to play from the 172 plate, or didn’t (he denied it).
An official stopped the fourth group and directed them to the blue markers at 210. The rest of the field played from there.
The 3 groups who played from 172 were DQ’d.

My observations as a local:

If the markers were supposed to be at the 172 plate, they could have corrected the error with group 4, moved the markers, and it would have been reasonably equitable.
I think the Marshall lied with the denial. 3 groups (12 kids) separated by normal spacing all played from the wrong box and all said the Marshall directed them there.
They should not have listened to the Marshall and should have asked for an official. Officials were on the course in carts.
The girls were playing the same day. The 172 box is the red (“ladies”) tee. I find it unusual if the intent was to have both blue and red tees in the same place. It makes more sense to me that they would be where they actually were...at 210 in the white box. However, the official tournament scorecard had the yardage as 172.

When 12 competitors in a row make the same mistake, it’s a problem with the tournament and not the players. The committee position was tee marker color rules all. It was the first bullet point of the player sheet. That’s hard to overcome. It was a bad call to have scorecard yardage so wrong that it put them on the ladies tee if that wasn’t their intent. The possible interference by a non-tournament but course employed Marshall should have been a strong mitigating factor. I tend to believe 12 people over 1 when taking the entire context into account. Then again, I do not believe the claim that the blue markers were not visible on approach. The white tee box is on the same level as the path. The 172 box is downhill. The 235 blue box is uphill and not visible. The blue markers were at the white box.

The 65 shot by a freshman was impressive. The pins were tucked on every hole.





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#11 D0ch0l1d4y

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:38 PM

View PostDougie Jones, on 17 May 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

Give them all trophy, they tryed

just like your spell-check :taunt:

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#12 CELTIC

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:32 AM

View PostD0ch0l1d4y, on 17 May 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

View PostDougie Jones, on 17 May 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

Give them all trophy, they tryed

just like your spell-check :taunt:
Now that, is damn funny.
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#13 Lou04380

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:09 AM

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 17 May 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Lesson should be, when the card says play from blue tees, you play from the blue tees. We all know scorecard yardages aren't accurate.

Except when you normally play the white tees, in that case you should know to ignore the scorecard and play whites... you can't win in this game!





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#14 Under2hours

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:32 AM

Yes the very simple fix is once the error was noted (& 12 players attested the marshall's words) was to move the tee box to the 172 yards.  

And the Golf Digest story is in greater detail and again shows how bad officials handled it and the quotes from others claiming Life Lessons just makes me shake my head.

Easy Peasy, but then like a broken record, that would make too much sense and be too easy.

Edited by Under2hours, 18 May 2018 - 06:41 AM.


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#15 MrJones

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:12 AM

View PostHawkeye77, on 17 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Not sure why this is getting "national" golf attention and wondering if the "rules official" was really a rules official or just a volunteer there for simply helping in general and the status has been "elevated" because of the argument.

My understanding from what I've read is that this was the case. Person was just a volunteer.

After reading the circumstances (if everything said is true) I'd side with the kids. One group even went to the blue tees and this same volunteer official said, ‘Hey, you guys are down here,’ motioning to the reds,”

To me this was a screw up based on some idiot that was supposed to be an authority on the rules.

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#16 Stuart G.

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:46 AM

The individual might very well be an idiot - or worse if he lied about what happened and what he told the kids - but it has little to do with his understanding of the rules.   It's still comes down to the committee being lazy (or understaffed or overworked), and assuming the grounds crew placed the tee markers where they were asked to and not actually verifying the placements before the start of the competition.

Also, the thoroughness of the investigation prior to a decision being made by the committee seems a bit suspect.  Sounds like the DQ ruling was made prior to all the facts being gathered and interviews being done.

Edited by Stuart G., 18 May 2018 - 09:28 AM.


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#17 oldsticksnewsticks

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:00 AM

It's wrong to DQ twelve players who were instructed by tournament officials to play from the wrong tee.

Strict reliance on the rule sheet isn't the right way to handle this. For a seasoned adult tournament player maybe, but not for kids. Junior golf isn't just about the golf -- it's about life lessons, too. These kids were, unfortunately, taught the wrong lesson.

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#18 Stuart G.

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:19 AM

View Postwadesworld, on 17 May 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

What then though?  I don't think they can allow the scores to stand as the players didn't play the same hole.  In equity, should the committee invoke 1-4 and allow the affected players to replay the hole from the correct tee?

Obviously, when the claims of the official lying would come into play. If that information didn't come to light until after the competition had closed, the committee would have no option but to let the DQ's stand.

I don't know if replaying the hole would be an equitable solution - unless you had the whole field replay the hole (preferably with a new pin placement but that's not as critical).   Playing the same green and pin position a second time would be a fairly significant advantage IMO over those who played it correctly the first time.


View Postmetsmc, on 17 May 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

The only logical thing is to throw out that hole. Give everyone a par.

I agree that is likely the only solution that's both equitable and practical - but you don't have to give them anything.  Just change the stipulated round to be 17 holes.

Edited by Stuart G., 18 May 2018 - 09:23 AM.


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#19 Sawgrass

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:31 AM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"
The ROG are in no way the culprit here.

If a Ref had misdirected the players, there would be no penalty to them:

34-2/2


Referee Authorizes Player to Infringe a Rule


Q.In error, a referee authorized a player to infringe a Rule of Golf. Is the player absolved from penalty in such a case?


A.Yes. Under Rule 34-2, a referee's decision is final, whether or not the decision is correct.


The Rules say you should simply accept the score:


34-3/3.3

Competitor in Stroke Play Makes Stroke from Wrong Place Due to Incorrect Ruling; Procedure for Competitor When Error is Discovered


Q.In stroke play, a competitor obtains a ruling from a referee and proceeds on the basis of that ruling, which involves dropping a ball and playing from a wrong place. The Committee then learns of the incorrect ruling by the referee. Should the Committee require the competitor to disregard the stroke or strokes made after the incorrect ruling and proceed correctly?


A.Unless a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


If a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, and the competitor has not played from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, has not left the putting green, in equity (Rule <a href="http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-01,1-4" style="color: rgb(71, 75, 85); text-decoration: none; font-weight: 700;">1-4), the Committee must correct the error. The Committee must direct the competitor to cancel the stroke made from the wrong place and any subsequent strokes and proceed correctly. The competitor incurs no penalty for playing from a wrong place. If it is too late to correct the error, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


The problem with this situation is that it was not a ref, or the Committee, who misguided the players, it was a marshal.  So IMO the analysis that must be made is, "Was it reasonable for the players to follow the direction of this person, thinking he was a responsible authority?

While I suppose you can debate that, I think it was, and the Rules thereby would authorize the Committee to ignore the DQ:


33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion


A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.


Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.


If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.


So, it may be appropriate to criticize, even vilify, a lying marshal.  But I don't see this as a problem with the Rules.  They can't be expected to magically make dishonest people honest, and they give the Committee the authority to make things right.

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#20 Swisstrader98

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:38 AM

I think a big part of the problem is most kids donít discern between a Marshall, a rules official, a volunteer, someone from the pro shop or the greens superintendent.

For the kids, any adult telling them to do x,y,z will most likely do so.


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#21 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostSawgrass, on 18 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"
The ROG are in no way the culprit here.

If a Ref had misdirected the players, there would be no penalty to them:

    34-2/2


    Referee Authorizes Player to Infringe a Rule


Q.In error, a referee authorized a player to infringe a Rule of Golf. Is the player absolved from penalty in such a case?


A.Yes. Under Rule 34-2, a referee's decision is final, whether or not the decision is correct.


The Rules say you should simply accept the score:


    34-3/3.3

    Competitor in Stroke Play Makes Stroke from Wrong Place Due to Incorrect Ruling; Procedure for Competitor When Error is Discovered


Q.In stroke play, a competitor obtains a ruling from a referee and proceeds on the basis of that ruling, which involves dropping a ball and playing from a wrong place. The Committee then learns of the incorrect ruling by the referee. Should the Committee require the competitor to disregard the stroke or strokes made after the incorrect ruling and proceed correctly?


A.Unless a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


If a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, and the competitor has not played from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, has not left the putting green, in equity (Rule <a href="http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-01,1-4" style="color: rgb(71, 75, 85); text-decoration: none; font-weight: 700;">1-4), the Committee must correct the error. The Committee must direct the competitor to cancel the stroke made from the wrong place and any subsequent strokes and proceed correctly. The competitor incurs no penalty for playing from a wrong place. If it is too late to correct the error, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


The problem with this situation is that it was not a ref, or the Committee, who misguided the players, it was a marshal.  So IMO the analysis that must be made is, "Was it reasonable for the players to follow the direction of this person, thinking he was a responsible authority?

While I suppose you can debate that, I think it was, and the Rules thereby would authorize the Committee to ignore the DQ:


    33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion


A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.


Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.


If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.


So, it may be appropriate to criticize, even vilify, a lying marshal.  But I don't see this as a problem with the Rules.  They can't be expected to magically make dishonest people honest, and they give the Committee the authority to make things right.
It definitely is not a rules issue. The item at issue is not uncommon to youth sports, Overzealous Adults!

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 18 May 2018 - 10:16 AM.


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#22 DFinch

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:12 AM

The Rogue River team went to Dairy Queen (DQ) afterward to eat ice cream together. It was the kids' idea. That's awesome.
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#23 Mike_C

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:28 AM

I remember a weird thing something like this in High School.  We were playing the conference championship on another teams home course, 8 teams in all.  It was a course I had played many times before but had not that year.  Anyway, the 9th and 18th holes ran parallel and were somewhat similar.  The course had always played with the 8th hole ending a bit to the right of the 18th tee, but you went behind it and to the left to play the 9th tee.  Anyway, the course had switched the 9th and 18th holes sometimes that year, but the coaches never said anything about it.  They were both sort of long par 4s, dogleg left, very similar distances. So when I and three other players from out of town finished the eighth, we went to what we knew as the 9th, but what was really now the 18th.  When it was all said and done, they did not call an infraction on us, as we did play the same 18 holes, but not in the right order. But I could see how we potentially could have been DQ'd.
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#24 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 18 May 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

View PostSawgrass, on 18 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"
The ROG are in no way the culprit here.

If a Ref had misdirected the players, there would be no penalty to them:

    34-2/2


    Referee Authorizes Player to Infringe a Rule


Q.In error, a referee authorized a player to infringe a Rule of Golf. Is the player absolved from penalty in such a case?


A.Yes. Under Rule 34-2, a referee's decision is final, whether or not the decision is correct.


The Rules say you should simply accept the score:


    34-3/3.3

    Competitor in Stroke Play Makes Stroke from Wrong Place Due to Incorrect Ruling; Procedure for Competitor When Error is Discovered


Q.In stroke play, a competitor obtains a ruling from a referee and proceeds on the basis of that ruling, which involves dropping a ball and playing from a wrong place. The Committee then learns of the incorrect ruling by the referee. Should the Committee require the competitor to disregard the stroke or strokes made after the incorrect ruling and proceed correctly?


A.Unless a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


If a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, and the competitor has not played from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, has not left the putting green, in equity (Rule <a href="http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-01,1-4" style="color: rgb(71, 75, 85); text-decoration: none; font-weight: 700;">1-4), the Committee must correct the error. The Committee must direct the competitor to cancel the stroke made from the wrong place and any subsequent strokes and proceed correctly. The competitor incurs no penalty for playing from a wrong place. If it is too late to correct the error, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


The problem with this situation is that it was not a ref, or the Committee, who misguided the players, it was a marshal.  So IMO the analysis that must be made is, "Was it reasonable for the players to follow the direction of this person, thinking he was a responsible authority?

While I suppose you can debate that, I think it was, and the Rules thereby would authorize the Committee to ignore the DQ:


    33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion


A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.


Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.


If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.


So, it may be appropriate to criticize, even vilify, a lying marshal.  But I don't see this as a problem with the Rules.  They can't be expected to magically make dishonest people honest, and they give the Committee the authority to make things right.
It definitely is not a rules issue. The item at issue is not uncommon to youth sports, Overzealous Adults!

You mean the most common issue is adults that have no idea how to run a youth sports event properly. Golf is worse because there a lot more details and unintended consequences. I helped my dad setup an annual junior tournament here and it's been a bit of a pain but he was a sports official for years and ran USSSA tournaments as an umpire in Chief and was our local basketball rules intepreter, which is now my post.

Edited by SNIPERBBB, 18 May 2018 - 10:50 AM.

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#25 LeoLeo99

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:53 AM

View PostSawgrass, on 18 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

View PostLeoLeo99, on 17 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure what hard lesson the high schoolers learned.  Adults lie?  Is that the lesson?  From the article linked, why doe the Committee seem more interested in complying with the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4?  The committee's attitude should be "what can we do to make this right?" instead of "the rules of golf can be rigid and cruel"
The ROG are in no way the culprit here.

If a Ref had misdirected the players, there would be no penalty to them:

34-2/2


Referee Authorizes Player to Infringe a Rule


Q.In error, a referee authorized a player to infringe a Rule of Golf. Is the player absolved from penalty in such a case?

A.Yes. Under Rule 34-2, a referee's decision is final, whether or not the decision is correct.

The Rules say you should simply accept the score:


34-3/3.3

Competitor in Stroke Play Makes Stroke from Wrong Place Due to Incorrect Ruling; Procedure for Competitor When Error is Discovered


Q.In stroke play, a competitor obtains a ruling from a referee and proceeds on the basis of that ruling, which involves dropping a ball and playing from a wrong place. The Committee then learns of the incorrect ruling by the referee. Should the Committee require the competitor to disregard the stroke or strokes made after the incorrect ruling and proceed correctly?

A.Unless a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.

If a serious breach is involved or the competitor has been seriously disadvantaged due to his playing from a wrong place, and the competitor has not played from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, has not left the putting green, in equity (Rule <a href="http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-01,1-4" style="color: rgb(71, 75, 85); text-decoration: none; font-weight: 700;">1-4), the Committee must correct the error. The Committee must direct the competitor to cancel the stroke made from the wrong place and any subsequent strokes and proceed correctly. The competitor incurs no penalty for playing from a wrong place. If it is too late to correct the error, the strokes made after the incorrect ruling must stand with no penalty.


The problem with this situation is that it was not a ref, or the Committee, who misguided the players, it was a marshal.  So IMO the analysis that must be made is, "Was it reasonable for the players to follow the direction of this person, thinking he was a responsible authority?

While I suppose you can debate that, I think it was, and the Rules thereby would authorize the Committee to ignore the DQ:


33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion


A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.

Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.

If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.


So, it may be appropriate to criticize, even vilify, a lying marshal.  But I don't see this as a problem with the Rules.  They can't be expected to magically make dishonest people honest, and they give the Committee the authority to make things right.

Good points.  The committee didn't look very deep into the rules before they decided to DQ.  I should have wrote that the committee seemed more interested in complying with their weak understanding of the rules of golf instead of doing what's right and invoke 1-4.  There were ways to comply with the rules of golf and to make this right.


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#26 LeoLeo99

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 18 May 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

I think a big part of the problem is most kids don't discern between a Marshall, a rules official, a volunteer, someone from the pro shop or the greens superintendent.

For the kids, any adult telling them to do x,y,z will most likely do so.

I'm an adult and I wouldn't know the difference between a rules official, marshal, volunteer, or pro shop employee.  I assume rules officials are also volunteers.

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#27 LeoLeo99

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 17 May 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Lesson should be, when the card says play from blue tees, you play from the blue tees. We all know scorecard yardages aren't accurate.

My assumption is that these were scorecards specifically made for the tournament.  I'd assume those to be accurate.

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#28 caniac6

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:04 AM

I can't believe the volunteer didn't have enough sense to call the clubhouse. I worked as a volunteer for a NC Mid Am qualifier, and I was told to call the clubhouse, and they would contact a rules official from the Carolinas Golf Association. I was told to make NO rulings under any circumstances. I was there to help players find balls, and help determine where they entered the hazard.


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#29 DFinch

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:06 AM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 18 May 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 17 May 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Lesson should be, when the card says play from blue tees, you play from the blue tees. We all know scorecard yardages aren't accurate.

My assumption is that these were scorecards specifically made for the tournament.  I'd assume those to be accurate.

The scorecards were printed specifically for the tournament with exact yardage listed for each hole based on intended tee marker position.
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#30 MrJones

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:16 AM

View PostStuart G., on 18 May 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

The individual might very well be an idiot - or worse if he lied about what happened and what he told the kids - but it has little to do with his understanding of the rules.   It's still comes down to the committee being lazy (or understaffed or overworked), and assuming the grounds crew placed the tee markers where they were asked to and not actually verifying the placements before the start of the competition.

Also, the thoroughness of the investigation prior to a decision being made by the committee seems a bit suspect.  Sounds like the DQ ruling was made prior to all the facts being gathered and interviews being done.

I'd like to clarify that I used the term "idiot" based on my reaction to reading what all occurred involving the individual at this event. His actions were described as much more than simply making a mistake on tee placement.

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