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Driver and 3W too close


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#1 CDG1029

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:39 PM

Perhaps it’s the shaft, perhaps it’s the hackers swing, but I find I’m hitting my driver (9.5* ‘17 M2 Oban Devotion) about 260 carry, and I’m hitting my 3W (13* cobra F7 HZRDUS yellow) about 250, but with a ton of roll. They are basically the same distance for me, but the driver flies high, 3W is a bit low with a ton of roll.

I have different uses for each, as I’m able to comfortably shape the 3W but the driver I’m hoping for a straight shot. Without seeing my swing, is it a driver swing issue, possibly an equipment issue, or a mental issue?

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#2 manima1

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:46 PM

Your 3W is only 13 degrees which is basically a 3+ wood.  

I'd recommend a 4W.  Will help with your height issues and spread out the gap a bit.  My 16.8 degree 4W  still can sniff 300y off the tee, but super easy to launch off deck.
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#3 Bobb3rdown

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:47 PM

Loft gaps seem pretty close. Maybe try upping the loft in the 3 wood to 15?
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#4 CDG1029

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?
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#5 Bobb3rdown

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:58 PM

Maybe take some length off the 3 wood shaft?

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#6 NYCGolfNut

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:00 PM

Or reduce the loft on the driver and see if you get a flatter trajectory?

I had a similar issue where my driver was 10.5 and 3W was 15 but they kind of went the same or similar distance. Both M2, both with Aldila Rogue stiff shafts, but 10gm wt diffference. So it was not the shaft.

After some investigation on track man and on the course, figured out that the driver was flying too high and ballooning. Turned loft down to 9.5 and took a little adjustment to get it dialed in, but now the gap is around 20 odd yards. The 3W is still my go to for narrower fairways and into the wind, but if there is enough width on the fairway, and the wind is not an issue, then the driver really does its job.

Not saying that you will have similar results. And also sounds like the two clubs might go the same distance but have different uses, so you may not need to change anything.

I would suggest tinkering a little with adjustment, know that face will open / close a little based on loft changes, and in the end, go with what fits your bag. The golden rule is to not have two clubs that do the same job. As long as they each have a real utility to your game and help you score better, who cares if they go the same distance.

Its how many, not how that matters in golf!

Edited by NYCGolfNut, 16 May 2018 - 07:22 PM.


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#7 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:08 PM

 CDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W?

You are losing distance with your driver.  The problem is that both answers are correct - the equipment can help, but its something in your driver swing or in your measurement.

How do you know your distances so precisely if you have no launch monitor data?  GPS records?
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#8 mwink822

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:10 PM

I have a similar issue to the OP.  My head pro and I have decided that my 3 wood is a little too low lofted and we are actively trying to fit me into an appropriate 16.5* to 17* 4-wood.  Right now we're looking at a Titleist 917F2, a Callaway Steelhead 4+ and a Ping G400 5 wood cranked down a degree with a 3 wood shaft in it.
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#9 CDG1029

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:19 PM

 pinestreetgolf, on 16 May 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

 CDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W?

You are losing distance with your driver.  The problem is that both answers are correct - the equipment can help, but its something in your driver swing or in your measurement.

How do you know your distances so precisely if you have no launch monitor data?  GPS records?

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#10 Chuck905

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:05 PM

Can you deloft the driver a degree?

If yours crushing he strong 3 wood, you might as well keep the set-up.

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#11 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:11 PM

 CDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

 pinestreetgolf, on 16 May 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

 CDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W?

You are losing distance with your driver.  The problem is that both answers are correct - the equipment can help, but its something in your driver swing or in your measurement.

How do you know your distances so precisely if you have no launch monitor data?  GPS records?

GPS tracking. I’m using Golfshot to track tee shots.

Nice.

What are the playing lengths of each?  Try cutting the driver to 44 or even 43.5" ?
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#12 VNutz

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:12 PM

If you are comfortable with each and have specific uses for each then it shouldn’t matter imo. Go with what works for you.

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#13 A.Princey

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:12 PM

 manima1, on 16 May 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Your 3W is only 13 degrees which is basically a 3+ wood.  

I'd recommend a 4W.  Will help with your height issues and spread out the gap a bit.  My 16.8 degree 4W  still can sniff 300y off the tee, but super easy to launch off deck.

This 1000%, getting a M1 3HL(basically a 4w that can be adjusted to a 5w) has definitely made my gapping better and launch from the deck much easier/predictable.
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#14 Justsomeguy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:04 AM

Leave your 3w alone. It gaps right w the hybrid under it.
Driver is not getting the efficiency you want for some reason. Try a shorter shaft, a different shaft, a different head - try anything, but if you're ballooning it or not getting max energy transfer, it can improve.
After that you can consider lifting up the 3w if u want a higher trajectory.
Your 3w flying so low might also be an indicator of a swing plane issue vs the teed up driver shot.
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#15 A.Princey

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:35 AM

 CDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?

I'm still trying to figure out how you hit teed balls with both clubs at such different traj, as in how does a 9.5* lofted hit the ball higher than a low CG 3w at 13*??? Might be a swingweight issue with one of them, or maybe you're just trying to hit up on the driver too much? If you're addressing both clubs drastically different in terms of ball positon and posture, the swing is likely the culprit.

Edited by A.Princey, 17 May 2018 - 02:40 AM.

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#16 matchavez

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:33 AM

I'll offer what is just a flat out guess.

First, the 13º is perfect for what you're trying to achieve... low, piercing flight with roll out. DO NOT TOUCH IT.

Second, isn't that exactly what you want for your driver? If the conditions you play in dictate that maximum distance is through rollout, likely because of dry conditions, etc., it doesn't care which club you're hitting. You probably have more apex height, spin, and a higher descent rate with your driver than is optimal. It might look pretty, but it sounds like you're hitting it too high.

Keep it simple for the first level of adjustment... don't go crazy; just put the ball back in your stance to get it down a couple degrees. Does it roll out more? If not...

2nd... is your golf ball too high spin? If the ball balloons, you are losing distance in the last third of flight.

3rd, if all else fails, you'll need to get on a trackman and see why the fairway is giving you good numbers. Maybe you really just need an 8º head? It may not be "by the book", but if you play in a dry area, it matters a lot. If you play in a generally wetter area, rollout doesn't affect total distance nearly as much.

Just continue to use your 3-wood as your model. It's a happy thing that you have the "key" in your hand. All you have to do is figure out how to get your driver to perform the same way, and you're set.

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#17 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:19 AM

 matchavez, on 17 May 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Just continue to use your 3-wood as your model. It's a happy thing that you have the "key" in your hand. All you have to do is figure out how to get your driver to perform the same way, and you're set.

Why do people think this way about driver at three wood?  Nobody ever says "hey, just figure out how to hit your 5 iron like your pitching wedge and you'll be set!"

its almost certainly a shaft length issue.  The OP is likely good enough and fit enough to maintain spine angle and hit a 43" club in the middle but is not fit or good enough to consistently hit a 45.5" club without an alternation to spine angle or a glancing blow not in the middle of the club face.

3 Wood at Driver are about 2.25" apart and usually about 6-7* apart.  Its like moving from a wedge to a mid-iron.  its the golfer, and you can't just translate the swing.

Edit -

A drive goes short and high because the right side dips into impact, causing a glancing blow beneath the ball (just like a slice is a glancing blow across the ball).  this can be a fitness issue or a swing issue.  a lot of players simply cannot maintain a curved spine at the speed they swing and must rise at impact with a 45"+ shaft.  a good way to tell if this is you is to video yourself and draw a line on your shoulders at address.  the right (since the right hand is below the left on the grip) should be just below the left - a diagonal line down away from the target, but not a severe one.  At impact, you should be at exactly the same line.  if your right shoulder has dipped so that your left is above the line and right below the line you established at addressed, its going high and short.  this can be a swing flaw called scooping or it can be because you don't have the flexibility/strength to maintain your posture while a 45" lever goes around you but you do when a 43" lever goes around you.  But video is first.

If you have level shoulders at impact and the ball is still going high and short then i'd look at equipment.  But i'd bet ya that you have relatively level shoulders with the 3 wood and with the driver your right side dropping off the planet before you get to the ball.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 17 May 2018 - 07:31 AM.

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#18 monkeyboy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:35 AM

I do this sometime too...I attribute it to me swinging my driver like a pu$$y at times.
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#19 bigD77

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:48 AM

Maybe I've missed it in reading through the thread here...but what exactly is your goal here?  Is it to actually hit your driver farther?  Better gapping?
There are a ton of suggestions and speculations in this thread...some of them very good...but other than trying not to balloon your driver, I dont know what you want to have happen.

Even if both clubs go roughly the same distance currently, but they get there in 2 different ways...assuming you hit them both relatively straight...then they both have value.  

If your goal is simply to hit the driver further, then all the advice on fitting that club is the way to go.

Without even knowing swing speed, my first thought is contact on the driver.  Maybe a little low?  You mentioned playing in the FL wind...so if you're hitting low, spinny shots with the driver, well there's your balloon.

More info is needed here, otherwise we cant help you get to a goal.

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#20 roundersmitty

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:51 AM

If the driver is going too high;

- your AOA might be way too much? maybe hitting up on the ball like 6* rather than 3*
- maybe your strike is high on the face?

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#21 bladehunter

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:10 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 17 May 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

View PostCDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?

I'm still trying to figure out how you hit teed balls with both clubs at such different traj, as in how does a 9.5* lofted hit the ball higher than a low CG 3w at 13*??? Might be a swingweight issue with one of them, or maybe you're just trying to hit up on the driver too much? If you're addressing both clubs drastically different in terms of ball positon and posture, the swing is likely the culprit.


?   I address my 3 wood near middle of my stance...slightly forward...driver is hit off the front heel or more for a draw.... cant be same same can they ?
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#22 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:55 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 17 May 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 17 May 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

View PostCDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?

I'm still trying to figure out how you hit teed balls with both clubs at such different traj, as in how does a 9.5* lofted hit the ball higher than a low CG 3w at 13*??? Might be a swingweight issue with one of them, or maybe you're just trying to hit up on the driver too much? If you're addressing both clubs drastically different in terms of ball positon and posture, the swing is likely the culprit.


?   I address my 3 wood near middle of my stance...slightly forward...driver is hit off the front heel or more for a draw.... cant be same same can they ?

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#23 WannabePaperTiger

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:52 AM

I’m surprised no one pointed out the shafts. Try the oban white. What are your spin numbers for the driver? I had this same issue and switched out shafts, from the 661 to D+70. Tested the Rome veylix and oban white and ad tp.

I use an ad di 7s for my 3w.

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#24 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:56 AM

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 17 May 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 17 May 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 17 May 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

View PostCDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?

I'm still trying to figure out how you hit teed balls with both clubs at such different traj, as in how does a 9.5* lofted hit the ball higher than a low CG 3w at 13*??? Might be a swingweight issue with one of them, or maybe you're just trying to hit up on the driver too much? If you're addressing both clubs drastically different in terms of ball positon and posture, the swing is likely the culprit.


?   I address my 3 wood near middle of my stance...slightly forward...driver is hit off the front heel or more for a draw.... cant be same same can they ?

Posted Image

el-oh-el.

My driver and 3 wood are about the same length.  Should I still play it an inch further away from me?

What is the hip hinge angle of the person for these ball positions?  45*?  What if I bend my clubs 3* upright (which I do) and stand nearly straight-up to hit the ball, because I grew up playing tennis and feel comfortable in a similar stance?  What if my buddy who played D1 basketball plays golf from what looks like a defensive stance in basketball and has the toe 2" in the air?  Do we still play the ball where you've suggested?

You know where you should play the ball?  About a half inch behind the low point of your swing, wherever that happens to be for whatever club you happen to be hitting except driver where it should be about an inch in front of the low point (you want to catch one on the downswing and one on the upswing).

What a silly post.
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#25 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:00 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 17 May 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 17 May 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 17 May 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 17 May 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

View PostCDG1029, on 16 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons I have the 3W cranked all the way down to 13 is for the sole reason of keeping it low under the Florida coast wind.

My next club down is a hybrid that is about 230 and does not roll.

I really don’t want a wood that flies higher than my driver because I’m not able to hit different shots with my driver, I have to take what I get.

I guess my question more was, am I losing distance on my driver, or am I just crushing the 3W? I feel like my driver is too high, but do not have any launch monitor numbers to back it up. Is a driver change or driver shaft change in order, or just move up the 3W loft and figure out the stinger with the higher loft on the wood?

I'm still trying to figure out how you hit teed balls with both clubs at such different traj, as in how does a 9.5* lofted hit the ball higher than a low CG 3w at 13*??? Might be a swingweight issue with one of them, or maybe you're just trying to hit up on the driver too much? If you're addressing both clubs drastically different in terms of ball positon and posture, the swing is likely the culprit.


?   I address my 3 wood near middle of my stance...slightly forward...driver is hit off the front heel or more for a draw.... cant be same same can they ?

Posted Image

el-oh-el.

My driver and 3 wood are about the same length.  Should I still play it an inch further away from me?

What is the hip hinge angle of the person for these ball positions?  45*?  What if I bend my clubs 3* upright (which I do) and stand nearly straight-up to hit the ball, because I grew up playing tennis and feel comfortable in a similar stance?  What if my buddy who played D1 basketball plays golf from what looks like a defensive stance in basketball and has the toe 2" in the air?  Do we still play the ball where you've suggested?

You know where you should play the ball?  About a half inch behind the low point of your swing, wherever that happens to be for whatever club you happen to be hitting except driver where it should be about an inch in front of the low point (you want to catch one on the downswing and one on the upswing).

What a silly post.

It's a joke...the guy in the photo is even wearing clown shoes.

Long Live Nike

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#26 Pawtucket

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:00 PM

There are a lot of answers here - but one major factor that people forget when talking 3W distance vs Driver distance

It is harder to swing a 460CC driver head as fast as a 180CC fairway wood head. The drag and weight from the larger driver head makes it harder to swing as fast as a fairway wood (even if the shaft is a bit longer). Therefore, a lot of golfer's 3-5 Fairway woods go as far, if not further, than their drivers.

The benefit of the driver is the forgiveness and some ball-speed technology (think: jailbreak) - but your 3W often swings as fast or faster, and we often catch the 3W in the center of the face more than the driver.

So to answer the OP - don't panic. If you hit your 3W and driver both well and almost equal - don't tinker too much and hope for a miracle with your driver. You may be hitting it better than you think
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#27 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 17 May 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's a joke...the guy in the photo is even wearing clown shoes.

That's pretty good.
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#28 A.Princey

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 03:07 PM

My suggestion as a trial is to play the ball back some amount with driver, off your instep. Also, keep your shoulders more square/level at address, you may be leaning back a ton, trying to drop your trail shoulder for upward AoA.

I was in a swing change a couple years back and got caught doing the very same and would suffer from low, straight pulls and high blocks to the right.
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#29 CDG1029

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:50 PM

Lots of good info here guys. I appreciate you all giving me some feedback.

I'm thinking that I may be hitting up too much on the driver. I had a negative AoA for a while with the driver and hit some monster spinners and fought the duck hooks for a bit. Now everything is straightened out but i'm not getting consistant trajectory. I may hit 3 towering balls that felt like center strikes, and then hit another 3 low ones that felt like they were perfectly struck.

There is a fitter nearby with good recomendations but he only fits and builds component clubs (Wishon, KZG, etc). He has a Flightscope and agreed to help me find a shaft and find correct settings for my driver as long as i bring him a handful of TM adapters. Pretty good deal i do believe! I think spending the time on the monitor and messing with lengths and weights will help me find a little more consistency!
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#30 Cwebb

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:54 PM

Your 3 wood is playing like a 2 wood for you.  Going up in loft to 15-16* should take care of it


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