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Hips turn level or tilted thru impact?


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#1 Hackinator

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

Anybody have any thoughts on how the hips turn thru impact, level or tilted?

When I say tilted I mean the front hip is higher than the right.


I would appreciate this info.

I think I tend to be tilted and wonder if I should make an effort to be more level.

Edited by Hackinator, 16 May 2018 - 11:45 AM.


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#2 glk

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:09 PM



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#3 Hackinator

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:12 PM

RIck Shiels is suggesting the left hip actually moves downward.



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#4 glk

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:16 PM

It does move down to start the downswing.

http://www.instagram...y=shaunwebbgolf

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#5 juststeve

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:22 PM

I've never given it any thought.  They just turn as I swing the club toward the target.

Steve


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#6 argee1977

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 01:25 PM

Always thought left hip was higher at impact due to left leg straightening, my feel is always that my left hip is going up and back through impact, same as the Shaun Webb video linked above. I do find it happens almost automatically if i have the right amount of right side bend through impact as well, if i don't it all seems to fall apart!

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#7 ferrispgm

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 01:46 PM

the right hip moves back and up on the backswing so it must move down and out on the downswing from a behind the line view.  The left hip is the opposite on both accounts.  If you have a good setup and shift pressure into your rear heel and have a decent pivot, this pretty much happens naturally.
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#8 Soloman1

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:50 PM

The lead hip tilts down on the backswing, then up during the downswing. It is always higher than the trail hip at impact with elite players.

Here’s Adam Hadwin, who is a very rotational player, still with 13° tilt at impact:

6D298A68-9F6F-49BB-9BD9-5FE28909025E.jpeg
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#9 jkbroker

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 03:02 PM

If you can keep the left hit lower than the right hip at the beginning of the downswing, the pelvis wants to open up.  If the right hip gets high, it wants to push and slide more.

There is a definite lateral movement in transition to reestablish some weight over the lead leg so you can start turning, but once you get the hip turned, hips can level out and then right hip can work down.

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#10 Billy Baroo

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:18 PM

They will tilt but if you think about having them tilt while turning through impact you will most likely slide.

Try to feel that for the majority of the downswing, your lower body moves like you are hitting from a downhill lie.

It's the straightening of the front leg and the extension of the front hip that will make them tilt but that will happen automatically if you get the feeling that you are hitting from a downhill lie for the most part of the downswing.

Edited by Billy Baroo, 16 May 2018 - 04:19 PM.

Maybe.....Yessir!

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#11 PJ1120

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:19 PM

View PostBilly Baroo, on 16 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

They will tilt but if you think about having them tilt while turning through impact you will most likely slide.

Try to feel that for the majority of the downswing, your lower body moves like you are hitting from a downhill lie.

It's the straightening of the front leg and the extension of the front hip that will make them tilt but that will happen automatically if you get the feeling that you are hitting from a downhill lie for the most part of the downswing.


This is my understanding. Does the lead knee gain flexion in transition to get the feel that you are hitting downhill?

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#12 Billy Baroo

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:51 PM

View PostPJ1120, on 16 May 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

View PostBilly Baroo, on 16 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

They will tilt but if you think about having them tilt while turning through impact you will most likely slide.

Try to feel that for the majority of the downswing, your lower body moves like you are hitting from a downhill lie.

It's the straightening of the front leg and the extension of the front hip that will make them tilt but that will happen automatically if you get the feeling that you are hitting from a downhill lie for the most part of the downswing.


This is my understanding. Does the lead knee gain flexion in transition to get the feel that you are hitting downhill?

It’s lead hip flex and not knee flex that should be your concern. You can flex the lead knee without flexing the lead hip and your next move after will most probably be a jump stall. You’re better off focusing on flexing the lead hip, getting that lead butt cheek closer to the ground and around, and let the knee react on it’s own.
Maybe.....Yessir!

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#13 Chowdah86

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:04 PM

Lots of analsis.  When you thow a ball, is your elbow at a 45% angle or a 90% angle.   Im not sure, but if you think about it too much you arent going to throw a ball very well.

One thing I can say about the hip angle: if your right shoulder gets too close to your right hip in your swing, you may develop lower back problems.  Its the closing of that angle and the shearing of the spine over and over for years that will get you.


And here is some analstis from a hypocrite:
Sometimes I like to think of the swing as 3 discs rotating parralell to each other around a steady spine:  Shoulders on one disc, Hips on another and club shaft on another.  Keeping hips and shoulders rotating paralell helps develop free rotation and easier speed.  The shaft obviosuyl move up in the backswing, but, returning it to the shaft plane is a great thought for consistency.  Add in a post of front leg and clear of the left hip.

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#14 Hackinator

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:28 PM

This looks fairly level.  Would you agree?


DustinHipTurn.png



I am guilty of having a good amount of hip tilt and I wonder if this contributing to some of my back issues that flair up.

Any benefits to going with more level hip turn?

Edited by Hackinator, 18 May 2018 - 06:37 PM.


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#15 Chowdah86

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:47 AM

Yeah you are right,they look level.  

To me, the most significant thing going on with his hips is that they clear and he posts back on his front leg.  This braces and gives a ton of extra snap through impact.

  Like if you have a weight at the end of a string and you swing it around in circles with one hand.  Right before the weight hits the bottom of the swing, you snap your hand up to give it a little whip through.    

Hes Doing this with his entire body.  Bubba does it like a bastxxx. Phil actually mentions it in videos and articles.  Long drive guys do it way more.    That move is kind of the important thing.   Yes it does look like his hips are flat though.


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#16 davep043

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:23 AM

View PostHackinator, on 18 May 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

This looks fairly level.  Would you agree?


Attachment DustinHipTurn.png

You really have to look at a DTL view to see it clearly.  Generally, the hips act like a "frame" rotating around an inclined axis (spine tilted forward, not a vertical spine).  For the better players, that tilt is maintained through and past impact.  For many poorer players, they stand up on both legs, their spine becomes more vertical, making their hips more level.

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#17 glk

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:47 AM

Turning level with side bend is a recipe for back problems

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#18 Hackinator

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 06:49 PM

Screen Shot 2018-05-20 at 7.46.27 PM.png

Here is another pic where hips looks fairly level at impact.


The Adam Hadwin tilt seems really extreme.   However he is using a driver and can probably get away with that much tilt with driver.

If he was using an iron, it seems like he would gouge the ground behind the ball.

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#19 joeunc

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:17 PM

the left hip goes/stay down since it was lower in the backswing, that quick instant at transition where the left shoulder and left hip work down and then as you work to p5 the hips begin to level as the left shoulder works up around and back into finish, thus pulling the left hip up and around

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#20 Hackinator

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:34 AM

View Postjoeunc, on 20 May 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:

the left hip goes/stay down since it was lower in the backswing, that quick instant at transition where the left shoulder and left hip work down and then as you work to p5 the hips begin to level as the left shoulder works up around and back into finish, thus pulling the left hip up and around

That makes sense.  
If that left hip moves up too soon then you are asking for fat shots IMHO
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#21 carrera

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:25 PM

An example of contradictory instruction: Gary Player says the hips/pelvis should rotate flat and not tilted.  Totally opposite of what the AMG guys say above.  

https://twitter.com/...546141431652353

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#22 Lefthook

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:41 PM

There’s more than one way to skin a cat. However there will be les stress on the spine and more mobility and potentially a bigger and more powerful turn if the hops / pelvis does some of the angled stuff.

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#23 SirFuego

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:13 PM

View Postcarrera, on 06 August 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

An example of contradictory instruction: Gary Player says the hips/pelvis should rotate flat and not tilted.  Totally opposite of what the AMG guys say above.  

https://twitter.com/...546141431652353

Unless Gary Player is basing that on a 3D model of his (student's) swing, it's just an example of the disconnect of 2D video vs 3D video vs what a human actually feels.

Edited by SirFuego, 06 August 2018 - 05:14 PM.


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#24 dlygrisse

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:20 PM

paralysis by analysis.  This should not be a conscience thought.  if you set up properly and swing the club the hips will take care of themselves.  hips=effect not cause.
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#25 Scottbox

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:36 PM

Down in the back, up at impact (the amount depends) on what kind of shot you're hitting. If you're hitting a low shot or a short iron, they don't tilt up as much at impact. With long irons and driver, there's more tilt at impact due to ball position and a different release pattern. Yes, the leg can straighten at impact, which causes more "release" of the club (since you're going "up" with your left side), therefore adding loft and trajectory. You can use the amount your hips go "up" at impact to affect trajectory.


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