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Aiming for Fade


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#1 juliette91

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:36 AM

You'd think by now I'd know how to do this.  

Ok, here's where I get mixed up--if the ball direction mostly follows club face angle at impact and you want to open the face slightly to make the ball fade how do you actually set your club to aim in the initial starting direction?

Don't know how to draw on the internet, which would be easier than all these words, but imagine 3 telephone poles, one at 12:00, one at 1:00 and one at 11:00.  I want the ball to start at 11:00 and end up at 12:00--not 1:00.

I need to open the face so do I first figure out what is the "open" I want (by viewing the face against sky or ground) then using that open face, aim it toward 11:00?  Then say orient my feet/shoulders/hips toward 10:00-10:30? And swing away?  Realize higher irons take more fade angles to fade than a driver.

What I struggle with is aligning my feet/shoulders/hips to be more "open" than the already open club face.  More times than not the ball position will be too far back in my stance-or sometimes too forward-just seems hard to properly find the ball position after all these "open" configurations.

And what about the "hold off" fade that looks like a predominant choice of tour pros?  Tried this many times but I just mostly tend to hold too early and make big carving slices.

Thanks!

Edited by juliette91, 16 May 2018 - 08:59 AM.


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#2 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:05 AM

This is what the driving range is for so you can figure out where to put your goal posts.

Personally I don't like setting to the face open as for me, I tend to want to slam it closed and double cross myself so I prefer to just push the ball a bit more forward in my stance.
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#3 dsmil

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:20 AM

View Postjuliette91, on 16 May 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

I need to open the face so do I first figure out what is the "open" I want (by viewing the face against sky or ground) then using that open face, aim it toward 11:00?  Then say orient my feet/shoulders/hips toward 10:00-10:30? And swing away?  Realize higher irons take more fade angles to fade than a driver.

And what about the "hold off" fade that looks like a predominant choice of tour pros?  Tried this many times but I just mostly tend to hold too early and make big carving slices.

Thanks!


Starting with a swing that produces a naturally square path and face, you are correct with your point of aligning your body at 10 o'clock and the clubface at 11 o'clock, and the greater that difference is, the larger the cut should be.  Like you said, the difference between those two points should be greater with your short irons than your longer clubs.   I personally like aligning my body first but it's just my preference.  Obviously you'll have to make changes to your setup if you already naturally cut or draw the ball.  The pros are so good that they are able to produce these very subtle fades/draws that are simply not as easy for us to do.

Edited by dsmil, 16 May 2018 - 10:21 AM.

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#4 596

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

I basically do what you just described but I reach that setup differently.

I know I want to fade the ball so I setup to aim left of the target.  Everything at this point is setup for a straight shot that would go where I am aiming, not at my end target.   Once everything is square, to the imaginary target to the left, I open the club face about half way to my real target.   I then swing along my left target line.  The slightly open face will start the ball slightly right of my imaginary target and then fade to the real target.

Using this method I find that I have to aim further left then I think, especially if I need to go around a tree.  This is because the ball starts along the open face which is just right of the swing line. I have to be sure the open face is left of a tree/object since it will then fade around it.

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#5 ousuxndallas

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:21 PM

View Post596, on 16 May 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

I basically do what you just described but I reach that setup differently.

I know I want to fade the ball so I setup to aim left of the target.  Everything at this point is setup for a straight shot that would go where I am aiming, not at my end target.   Once everything is square, to the imaginary target to the left, I open the club face about half way to my real target.   I then swing along my left target line.  The slightly open face will start the ball slightly right of my imaginary target and then fade to the real target.

Using this method I find that I have to aim further left then I think, especially if I need to go around a tree.  This is because the ball starts along the open face which is just right of the swing line. I have to be sure the open face is left of a tree/object since it will then fade around it.
Agree with this.


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#6 juliette91

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:47 PM

Maybe if I repeat what you said it will sink in.  Using the 3 telephone pole visual-11:00, 12:00 and 1:00, tell me if this is what you're saying (I'm LH so I may screw this up but this description is for RH)

If I want the ball to start at 11:00 and fade to 12:00, I set up to the imaginary target at 10:00, square to that line, open the face to 11:00 (1/2 way to 12:00 where I want the ball to actually end up) and swing along the 10:00 line?

If I wanted less fade, I might set up to an imaginary line at 10:30, open the clubface 1/2 way to 12:00 or in this case 11:15 and swing along my 10:30 path?  And so on...

What's good for me if this is correct is an easier ball positioning since I'm setting up square.

Thank you!

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#7 596

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:13 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 16 May 2018 - 05:47 PM, said:

Maybe if I repeat what you said it will sink in.  Using the 3 telephone pole visual-11:00, 12:00 and 1:00, tell me if this is what you're saying (I'm LH so I may screw this up but this description is for RH)

If I want the ball to start at 11:00 and fade to 12:00, I set up to the imaginary target at 10:00, square to that line, open the face to 11:00 (1/2 way to 12:00 where I want the ball to actually end up) and swing along the 10:00 line?

If I wanted less fade, I might set up to an imaginary line at 10:30, open the clubface 1/2 way to 12:00 or in this case 11:15 and swing along my 10:30 path?  And so on...

What's good for me if this is correct is an easier ball positioning since I'm setting up square.

Thank you!

Yes.  That is exactly how I do it.  You need to experiment with how far to aim left v how far to open the face v where the ball starts v how far the ball fades.  

I find this pretty fool proof as the swing and ball position stays pretty much the same as your standard shot.  The only thing is you need to be sure to swing along the imaginary target line and not get an out to in path to make the ball fade.  Anything more out to in then your regular swing and the ball will fade more then you wanted.  Sometimes this takes practice.

BTW - you need to aim further left then you think because the open face at impact to the target line produces a "push fade".  The ball starts to the right of your imaginary target line and then fades further right.

Edited by 596, 16 May 2018 - 06:17 PM.


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#8 juliette91

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

Understood.  As one other poster said--gotta go to the practice range.  There are many nuances to this, I get that--like slight opening of a driver produces much more fade than a corresponding slight opening of an iron + the flat face of the iron is quite different from the roll of the driver face--yada yada...

Oh yeah, and then there's the big idea of a square to square "iron Byron" swing.  Lots to go wrong but appreciate a good starting point!

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#9 juliette91

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:35 PM

Really like Trevino's 10 tips published in a golf mag awhile back.  He says to fade the ball you address and takeaway the club with your hands back of the ball-opposite/ hands forward/ for a draw.  Says the hands back will end up forward at impact thus opening the face, and vice versa for the hands forward draw.  

Comments?  Before you knock this it is from Trevino, likely one of the best ball strikers ever.

Edited by juliette91, 17 May 2018 - 07:36 PM.


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#10 MadGolfer76

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:44 PM

Too much thinking.

Grip the club, aim the face where you want it to start, and just set up with the ball very forward (and a little closer) in the stance. Swing normally...

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#11 juliette91

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 07:11 AM

Thanks for weighing in, that's pretty much what Trevino was saying in his 10 tips column-another tip he mentioned was hitting the low fade and standing closer automatically created a more outside in swing.  

I like the idea of not too much thinking and think there's too much emphasis within current instruction on positions and proper body movement at the expense of training your hands/wrists.  The ball only knows clubface angle at impact and your hands are pretty much in charge.

Edited by juliette91, 18 May 2018 - 07:12 AM.


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#12 juliette91

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Posted Yesterday, 08:35 AM

Well today (?, just saw the show not sure it was first aired today) Martin Hall of the golf channel's "lessons" put an exclamation point on the key fade advice one of this thread's posters gave here:

Aim clubface down the line you want the ball to start (modern high speed video show initial ball direction is about 80% controlled by clubface angle at impact); take the number of degrees that your clubface angle diverges from the landing target and swing along a path more open to the clubface the same number of degrees.

I guess the 80% I described has to figure in somewhere so your swingpath does have some effect for you to consider.



Edited by juliette91, Yesterday, 08:36 AM.


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