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Question about penalty drop


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#1 djamhour

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:58 PM

Looking forward to keeping handicap now and play in tournaments in the near future.

Ex. Playing a 330 yard par 4 straight hole with trees all along the right, you slice the ball 200 yards into trees. You tee up another shot. You end up finding your first ball but itís unplayable, and even with the 2 club length drop itís still unplayable. I donít understand the straight line back between flag stick and ball.


So in this example there is no straight back and that means you simply can not drop the Ball right out of the trees with a penalty drop.

Edited by djamhour, 15 May 2018 - 11:38 PM.


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#2 gretch

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:23 PM

The end of your paragraph is quite jumbled, but what I think you are asking is if you can play the provisional you hit off the tee if your preferable unplayable options are not possible.

You cannot.  Once you found the first ball, your provisional is no longer relevant.  If unable to take a unplayable with first ball within two club lengths no closer, or along a line with the pin back as far as you want from where you found it, you must return to the tee to play the unplayable hitting three.

Edited by gretch, 15 May 2018 - 11:28 PM.


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#3 djamhour

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:40 PM

View Postgretch, on 15 May 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

The end of your paragraph is quite jumbled, but what I think you are asking is if you can play the provisional you hit off the tee if your preferable unplayable options are not possible.

You cannot.  Once you found the first ball, your provisional is no longer relevant.  If unable to take a unplayable with first ball within two club lengths no closer, or along a line with the pin back as far as you want from where you found it, you must return to the tee to play the unplayable hitting three.

Thanks for response.. Iím fairly new to golf and have been playing for over 1.5 years and the guys I play with played roughly same amount of time and everyone plays the ball in the trees a bit differently. I know if you find your ball you canít play provisional. But say the 2 club length rule doesnít help much and youre still stuck in a horrible position, you want to use the straight back rule, where would that be?

Edited by djamhour, 15 May 2018 - 11:42 PM.


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#4 jll62

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:47 PM

You draw a line between the hole and your ball and extend that line back as far as you want behind the ball. You can then drop on any point on that line. It might be 20 yards behind the ball, it might be 200 yards behind the ball. That's up to you. But there is no guarantee this option will give you any sort of relief that allows for a clear shot or is a better option than replaying the original shot. The design of the hole might be such that this option keeps you in the trees, would be in a hazard or OB, etc. That's what the original answer was trying to explain.
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#5 Halebopp

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:16 AM

Grab yourself one of these and start reading, one of the preview pictures of the book actually shows the options for an unplayable lie. Also remember that you can deem the ball unplayable as many times as you wish. Of course you need to make the drop and then deem the ball unplayable again.

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/3909596843

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#6 596

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:08 AM

And this is why the rules of golf are so inconsistent.  You can't play a provisional ball if you find your first one even though you can't play it (kind of like going OB, into a hazard, etc).  Because you found the ball by a stroke of luck, and its 100% unplayable, now you have to take the time to return to the tee box to play a ball that you could already have played 10 minutes ago and have been hitting your 4th shot to the green instead.

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#7 jlbos83

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:17 AM

View Post596, on 16 May 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

And this is why the rules of golf are so inconsistent.  You can't play a provisional ball if you find your first one even though you can't play it (kind of like going OB, into a hazard, etc).  Because you found the ball by a stroke of luck, and its 100% unplayable, now you have to take the time to return to the tee box to play a ball that you could already have played 10 minutes ago and have been hitting your 4th shot to the green instead.
No inconsistency at all.  You are not allowed to play the provisional after finding the original because that gives you a choice of which ball to make the ball in play.  Once you find the original ball the provisional ceases to be an option to prevent the possibility of having a choice.  Consider the case where the original may be unplayable, but two club lengths give a decent shot.  If the provisional isn't dead you would have the choice of which ball to play, that is against the basic principles of the game.
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#8 QEight

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:56 PM

View Postdjamhour, on 15 May 2018 - 10:58 PM, said:

Looking forward to keeping handicap now and play in tournaments in the near future.

Ex. Playing a 330 yard par 4 straight hole with trees all along the right, you slice the ball 200 yards into trees. You tee up another shot. You end up finding your first ball but itís unplayable, and even with the 2 club length drop itís still unplayable. I donít understand the straight line back between flag stick and ball.


So in this example there is no straight back and that means you simply can not drop the Ball right out of the trees with a penalty drop.

If you are hitting a provisional you have to announce it. Not just "tee up another shot".
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#9 Newby

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:10 AM

View Postdjamhour, on 15 May 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

I don’t understand the straight line back between flag stick and ball.

Flagline.jpg

Edited by Newby, 17 May 2018 - 02:12 AM.


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#10 HatsForBats

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:24 AM

Rough example

White 'lines' = Out of Bounds
Yellow Dot = Current hole location
Red Dot = Unplayable ball
Blue Line = Possible drop locations going by how the rule should supposedly be interpreted.

As far back without limit behind the ball and the unplayable ball must remain between the new drop point and the flag.

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#11 Skifly150

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 11:45 AM

View Post596, on 16 May 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

And this is why the rules of golf are so inconsistent.  You can't play a provisional ball if you find your first one even though you can't play it (kind of like going OB, into a hazard, etc).  Because you found the ball by a stroke of luck, and its 100% unplayable, now you have to take the time to return to the tee box to play a ball that you could already have played 10 minutes ago and have been hitting your 4th shot to the green instead.

Actually they're quite consistent. A provisional is for the event the ball cannot be played by rule, not by player's choice. (Lost or OB) You may not play a provisional for a hazard. (you can play the ball from a hazard if you wish. Once a ball has been located in play (not lost or OB), you get to use your discretion as to whether it is playable or not, supposing the particular shot was a very tough one, knowing the position of the provisional could very easily impact how you decide to proceed going forward.... this fact necessitates making the provisional ball irrelevant. Why should anyone be allowed to choose an outcome that's already been determined? This prevents a player from having an option to use one of TWO strokes already taken and selecting the better option.

Hypothetical: IF YOU COULD USE THE PROVISIONAL AS THE OPTION FOR STROKE AND DISTANCE FOR AN UNPLAYABLE. (I know this is contrary to the rule but I'm trying to make a point).

You hit your tee ball and it might be lost; you play a provisional but it's really in bad shape, but you know it's in play....... you find the original in play, now you want to declare it unplayable, but don't like the provisional's position. should you be given the 'option' to use two club lenghs? or line of site to flag? would you be in a position where you must you hit the provisional, or perhaps you think you should be able to go back to the tee and do it again? This would be a nightmare to figure out.

What if the provisional was in perfect shape- why should you be allowed to make a swing that might or might not be counted based on your discretion? The way the rule is written and applied today if the original ball is lost or OB you now must play the provisional. You don't get to decide. In this fact the rules are straightforward and consistent.

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