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Aha Moment--Loading Lag/Float Loading


38 replies to this topic

#31 Golfbeat

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 01:40 PM

I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.

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#32 NotForeLong

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

View PostGolfbeat, on 16 May 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.

Thatís not really true.  It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the ďlagged lookĒ especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too.  You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm.   That is the hard part.

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#33 bogeypro

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:17 AM

Lag is not creating by holding anything.  Lag is created when one thing out runs the other thing attached to it.  Power the arms properly and the club lags until the arms slow down and allow the club to accelerate and catch and pass.   We want this to happen just after impact.  This gives the look of shaft lean.... in reality, the club just hadnít caught up to the arms yet.  So, you canít hold the lag or you the club doesnít accelerate...means no power.
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#34 Dougie Jones

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostNXT, on 15 May 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Take it back any way you like, then do this:



An easy way to eliminate confusion and contradiction.


Good tips!   I need to work on this.

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#35 Golf nerd

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:43 AM

View PostNotForeLong, on 16 May 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

View PostGolfbeat, on 16 May 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.

That's not really true.  It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the "lagged look" especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too.  You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm.   That is the hard part.
I would disagree with what you just said. Golfbeat is correct. We are not searching for a "lag look". We are searching for shaft lean at impact without flipping. If you concentrate mainly on the left hand radial deviation we can see that this is easier or I would say you can increase it and simultaneously open the club face as the left is more cupped. The more flat the left wrist is the less radial deviation is possible. There is also an influence on angle of attack, but mainly the problem is an open club face at P6, which needs a late closing motion  which leads to a flipping motion.
What Golfbeat is referring to is taught by Dana Dahlquist. Look into it and ask yourself why Dana moved on from a S&T and MORAD influenced teaching to what he is currently teaching. This old fella here demonstrates what Golfbeat is referring to. He releases the left radial deviation early and bows the left (flexion), which flattens the shaft in combination with rotation and results in shaft lean without flipping. Note that the student rotates a lot and tries not to release the left arm of the chest. It stays pinned longer.


Edited by Golf nerd, 18 May 2018 - 01:44 AM.


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#36 Your-away!

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:59 AM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 15 May 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

My experience is if golfers would just improve their swings and not search for magic moves, they get better long term.

A truer word never spoken!

All these poor golfers trying to copy Ben Hogan, holding lag like Sergio, trying to be picture perfect like Adam scott, everyone has a natural swing, just make improvements to that rather than trying to do a completely different swing.

Nick Faldo is a prime example, can anyone else practice 10 hours every day for 2 to 3 years? because thats how long it took him to change his swing
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#37 rsballer10

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:40 AM

I think float loading is what my family likes to call an "optical delusion". I think it's just the club shallowing in transition, creating the look of a deep V wrist angle. No human can physically create 120+ degree wrist set while still holding on to the grip.

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#38 RattlesnakeRon

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:31 AM

View Postrsballer10, on 18 May 2018 - 08:40 AM, said:

I think float loading is what my family likes to call an "optical delusion". I think it's just the club shallowing in transition, creating the look of a deep V wrist angle. No human can physically create 120+ degree wrist set while still holding on to the grip.

I disagree. Youíll know float loading if/when you feel it - with loose wrists, let the momentum of the clubhead during the backswing help set the wrists, then start back down before theyíre set fully. Can be done/felt from tiny chips up to full swings.

What youíre talking about is the 2D optical illusion of > 90 lag when a shallow shaft and deep left arm are viewed from a FO angle. That can happen with or without float loading.

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#39 NotForeLong

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:04 PM

View PostGolf nerd, on 18 May 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

View PostNotForeLong, on 16 May 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

View PostGolfbeat, on 16 May 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.

That's not really true.  It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the "lagged look" especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too.  You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm.   That is the hard part.
I would disagree with what you just said. Golfbeat is correct. We are not searching for a "lag look". We are searching for shaft lean at impact without flipping. If you concentrate mainly on the left hand radial deviation we can see that this is easier or I would say you can increase it and simultaneously open the club face as the left is more cupped. The more flat the left wrist is the less radial deviation is possible. There is also an influence on angle of attack, but mainly the problem is an open club face at P6, which needs a late closing motion  which leads to a flipping motion.
What Golfbeat is referring to is taught by Dana Dahlquist. Look into it and ask yourself why Dana moved on from a S&T and MORAD influenced teaching to what he is currently teaching. This old fella here demonstrates what Golfbeat is referring to. He releases the left radial deviation early and bows the left (flexion), which flattens the shaft in combination with rotation and results in shaft lean without flipping. Note that the student rotates a lot and tries not to release the left arm of the chest. It stays pinned longer.



I think you missed my point. Golfbeatís categorical statement that lag or whatever you want to call it is created by releasing the RD in the left wrist and keeping the right wrist in extension as opposed to any other way just isnít correct. That is a way to do it, but itís not like the secret or anything. I will give you this, if you are a beginner in understanding the golf swing, which it appears that you and golfbeat may be, the realization that you can get lag without the RD in the left wrist is very important for a greater understanding. But beyond beginners, I assume everyone knew this as itís common knowledge among every good instructor. Sure, most of the trash on YouTube doesnít understand this, but thatís because itís trash.

IMO in general ďgetting shaft lean without flippingĒ is pretty easy if you have some amount of golf talent. For others, itís pretty much impossible and itís not something that you are gonna be able to learn. So I think searching for that goal is kind of pointless if youíve played for awhile and havenít been able to achieve it. You can play very good golf without much shaft lean and with a minor flip, there are other things that could more easily be improved to make you better. If you have a scratch or better and still not doing it, then it may be worth looking into to get you to the next level.

And finally, if any of these videos (didnít watch that one but Iím sure if Dana made it itís fine) are advocating holding the right wrist back, then run, donít walk, elsewhere. Thatís pretty much guaranteed to make you flip a lot and kills all your speed.  Itís just as bad if not worse than holding the lag by keeping the RD in left wrist.

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